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D melanogaster
Minmatar
The Fruit Flys
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Posted - 2010.04.06 03:55:00 -
[1]
Looking at KBP local today, more then 90% of the pilots were owned by Star Fraction.. Is U'K going to let you rent? You would do better to stay out of 0.0 and instead declare operations with conditions impossible to not reach. By going to 0.0 you open yourself up to actually having to fight with ships rather then words.
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Mad Murgan
Minmatar
DAEDALUS X
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.06 05:17:00 -
[2]
Maybe we are maybe we aren't, possible we are supporting our friends U'K...or maybe not. Who knows, but like we're going to tell you what we're up too. Operational security is a prime goal of any endeavor when you have enemies that don't like your ideals.
Seriously who are you again? Why would we tell you what our plans are? The answer is your going believe whatever your going to want to believe. Which I am pretty sure is what we want you to do. Dare to dream baby, dare to dream.
Now I am no great thinker Like Jade Constantine is or a great philosopher like Cosmopolite. Heck most days I have trouble spelling really big words, using proper grammer or even being remotely sane. No I am just one of the fighters of the cause doing what needs to be done. I kinda like it too so don't be a real downer here and rain on my parade.
Of course I cannot speak on behalf of the alliance or my leaders, I am just yanking your chain for my own amusement. Although I do have to question how you worked out 90% of the pilots out there today were Star Fraction but hey whatever, do what you need to do to feel better about yourself. Having high self-esteem is necessary for good mental health. Again trust me on this one, I have a lot of practical expierence.
So in conclusion:
A) Lighten up and go with the flow.
B) Don't worry about what we are up to unless your a war target or hostile to us or our allies.
C) Disregard everything I just said because I am just yanking your chain...or am I? |
Icarus3
Gallente
DAEDALUS X
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.06 05:37:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Icarus3 on 06/04/2010 05:42:38
 Originally by: D melanogaster
Looking at KBP local today, more then 90% of the pilots were owned by Star Fraction.
The above statement is wrong in many ways. I'm not sure what your life has been like, but you obviously aren't seeing things clearly. First off we aren't "owned" by anyone. We are freecaptians and freedom supporters... something a tribal individual should care dearly for.
Secondly we have strong ties to our Ushra'Khan brothers and have fought at their sides on numerous occasions. Look through -SF- battle history. You will see a few great fights we've had in KPB alongside Ushra'Khan.
If you want to bash ur or our ideals come back with something solid and worth talking about.
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Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar
DAEDALUS X
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.06 13:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: D melanogaster
By going to 0.0 you open yourself up to actually having to fight with ships rather then words.
There is no excuse for this level of stupid, the ISD news articles are available to everyone.
cool glasses though. |
D melanogaster
Minmatar
The Fruit Flys
|
Posted - 2010.04.06 15:03:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mad Murgan
I do have to question how you worked out 90% of the pilots out there today were Star Fraction..
It is easy, you simply take the number of pilots belonging to SF, then divide by the total number of pilots in system. This part may confuse you because it will give a fraction of one. Some call this a decimal. To get the pretty percentage, you multiply this number by 100 and then you can add the "%" sign after it. Practice it a few times. It will get easier.
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
There is no excuse for this level of stupid, the ISD news articles are available to everyone.
We know how accurate they are...
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
cool glasses though.
Thanks!
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Syyl'ara
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Posted - 2010.04.06 16:12:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Syyl''ara on 06/04/2010 16:13:39
Originally by: D melanogaster
Originally by: Mad Murgan
I do have to question how you worked out 90% of the pilots out there today were Star Fraction..
It is easy, you simply take the number of pilots belonging to SF, then divide by the total number of pilots in system. This part may confuse you because it will give a fraction of one. Some call this a decimal. To get the pretty percentage, you multiply this number by 100 and then you can add the "%" sign after it. Practice it a few times. It will get easier.
I think he was questioning how one could observe the conditions of an entire constellation with but one pair of eyes. Also, since your are clearly informed on such things, please share with us exactly how many active pilots SF has? Not to mention, 90% alliance participation rates for a conflict that's basically winding down would actually be something to be proud of, wouldn't it?
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
Quote:
There is no excuse for this level of stupid, the ISD news articles are available to everyone.
We know how accurate they are...
Compared to say, the accuracy of random Galnet posters making vague, unsubstantiated claims?
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D melanogaster
Minmatar
The Fruit Flys
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Posted - 2010.04.06 17:11:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Syyl'ara
I think he was questioning how one could observe the conditions of an entire constellation with but one pair of eyes. Also, since your are clearly informed on such things, please share with us exactly how many active pilots SF has? Not to mention, 90% alliance participation rates for a conflict that's basically winding down would actually be something to be proud of, wouldn't it?
1. KBP is a system and not a constellation.
2. "KBP local was 90% SF" =/= "90% of SF was in KBP"
I will record local next time I am there for all the haters.
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Butter Dog
Gallente
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.04.06 19:20:00 -
[8]
Please make your first rental cheque payable to 'Mr B Dog'
Thanks and warm regards 
----------
~bitter dog~
etc |
Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.06 19:21:00 -
[9]
I mean seriously. KBP is so dead atm that if 4 SF pilots go to KBP then that constelation is likely to look '90% SF'
The area has been effectively nueted for the moment and will take some time to recover. And it's unlikely it will ever be the bustling hub of activity that it once was.
There were certain reasons that XV7L constalation was unique and those conditions have not been reproduced in the 'great experiment' as yet.
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
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Posted - 2010.04.06 20:03:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xina Tutor
The area has been effectively nueted for the moment and will take some time to recover. And it's unlikely it will ever be the bustling hub of activity that it once was.
There were certain reasons that XV7L constalation was unique and those conditions have not been reproduced in the 'great experiment' as yet.
It seems a little premature write Providence's epitaph. Is the war even over, yet?
For the record, I wouldn't blame U'K if it decided not to repeat the Providence experiment with a new Matari focus. CVA managed to defend the territory better than many expected (well, until recently), but what it built was an infamous barrel of fish.
As in, "shooting fish in...."
If U'K doesn't want to develop the same reputation, I won't blame them in the slightest.
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Xina Tutor
Amarr
Black Arrows
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 03:57:00 -
[11]
Well I'm talking about XV7L-S ect, not the whole of Providence. For that corner the war is... well delayed indefinately. I do not believe CVA have any major opperations there and I see little activity in general. I'm sure CVA have their own fight elsewhere and I wish them well. Any war which continues in XV7L-S, or frankly anywhere 'east' of 9UY, is part of the somewhat interesting motives behind the takeover of the area.
Or I should say I saw (past tense) little activity, as I have left the area for now and it is not currently a concern.
But this is about Star Fraction, and my point is that the initial statement was missleading. My point is that if any fleet eanters this area they easily dominate in numbers, just because it is relatively empty.
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Nooblog
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.07 04:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Nooblog on 07/04/2010 04:37:07
I find the following comical...
Quote:
Political Philosophy of The Star Fraction
Our philosophy is both straightforward and yet politically complex when compared with the majority of polarised territorial, nationalist and imperial mindsets common to the cluster at the moment:
* We do not claim space. That is to say we do not put up a flag and say: "this is our backyard, come here and weÆll set the dogs on you!"
I wouldn't expect anything less considering your new landlords are as big of hypocrites as your organization is.
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Major Templar
Caldari
KINGS OF EDEN
Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.04.07 06:55:00 -
[13]
I think that if Star Fraction want to take space more power to them. But at this point it's not really of much concern for anyone anymore. Providence, or at least the section as Xina put, East of 9UY is no longer of importance really. The renters/flying killmails are in place protected by -A- from sov wars and there is little to be done now. As most have seen, Sev3rance and Cold Steel have left the area and we were the only ones who really cared about that area of space.
So does it really matter if Star Fraction are in there? Does Providence really matter anymore? In my opinion, no, it does not. And one way to see this trend, well look at K forums and SHC and also here on Eve forums, Providence threads are pretty much dead.
So Star Fraction, good luck and have fun guys, maybe see you on the battlefield. 
Major
Major Templar
Head of Armed Forces
Kings Of Eden
Sev3rance |
Iteken Hotori
Minmatar
Rionnag Alba
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.04.07 13:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Major Templar
So does it really matter if Star Fraction are in there? Does Providence really matter anymore? In my opinion, no, it does not. And one way to see this trend, well look at K forums and SHC and also here on Eve forums, Providence threads are pretty much dead.
Nice Rhetoric. I am fairly sure it matters to the Myriad of Free Alliances moving willing into "New Providence." Alliances previously denied land by a corrupt, morally bankrupt regime only out to fill it's own pockets at the expense of the Poor and Enslaved.
Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 13:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nooblog
I find the following comical...
Quote:
Political Philosophy of The Star Fraction
Our philosophy is both straightforward and yet politically complex when compared with the majority of polarised territorial, nationalist and imperial mindsets common to the cluster at the moment:
* We do not claim space. That is to say we do not put up a flag and say: "this is our backyard, come here and weÆll set the dogs on you!"
I wouldn't expect anything less considering your new landlords are as big of hypocrites as your organization is.
You appear to be having trouble understanding what seems to me a most simple and clearly illustrated principle. We will not shoot people for "tresspassing". Space is nobody's "backyard".
Are you really confused about this or are you simply trying to make a weak attack on the intentional confusion of motives?
True Knowledge |
Gemma Naquist
Kuomi Logistics
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Posted - 2010.04.07 14:04:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You appear to be having trouble understanding what seems to me a most simple and clearly illustrated principle. We will not shoot people for "tresspassing". Space is nobody's "backyard".
Lies.
Fly within 100 km of one of their POS and see what happens.
KUOMI LOGISTICS: The bright future, today!Ö |
Nooblog
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 15:19:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Nooblog on 07/04/2010 15:25:02
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Nooblog
I find the following comical...
Quote:
Political Philosophy of The Star Fraction
Our philosophy is both straightforward and yet politically complex when compared with the majority of polarised territorial, nationalist and imperial mindsets common to the cluster at the moment:
* We do not claim space. That is to say we do not put up a flag and say: "this is our backyard, come here and weÆll set the dogs on you!"
I wouldn't expect anything less considering your new landlords are as big of hypocrites as your organization is.
You appear to be having trouble understanding what seems to me a most simple and clearly illustrated principle. We will not shoot people for "tresspassing". Space is nobody's "backyard".
Are you really confused about this or are you simply trying to make a weak attack on the intentional confusion of motives?
You're right.
The sentence "We do not claim space." is very confusing.
The following one, which further explains the first... "That is to say we do not put up a flag and say: "this is our backyard, come here and weÆll set the dogs on you!"", makes how you twisted it, so much more easier to understand now.
Thanks, I thought my comprehension of the language clearly written, was off. Glad we have you here to be as obfuscatory as possible. Pardon the delay in transmission... Why not just admit that in the five years you've been an alliance and accomplished nothing, you've finally shoved your head up a larger entity's behind that it has finally provided the opportunity to do what you always wished, yet never were successful, at accomplishing.
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Shakra Matrayus
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:31:00 -
[18]
Okay from my understanding, if Star Fraction decides to "Take space" so tp speak, its simply going to be so they have he licensing and the tech systems to run modules they would otherwise not be able to... while they may be the registered "Owners" of an area, they are simply in a mangerial role, and beyond people they would shoot anyways they wouldnt interfere with other pilots right to travel and operate within the space... as far as control towers being set to shoot anyone not friendly, well, thats more of a personal comfort bubble thing, all pilots have one of those in low security systems, paranoia is in our nature.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.07 15:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gemma Naquist
Lies.
Fly within 100 km of one of their POS and see what happens.
Plenty have tried this in Kamela and been surprised to find the POS does not fire on neutrals.
-10s of course are blown to smithereens.
Your reputation is worthless Gemma Naquist. Do not attempt to claim otherwise.
True Knowledge |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 16:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nooblog
Thanks, I thought my comprehension of the language clearly written, was off. Glad we have you here to be as obfuscatory as possible. Pardon the delay in transmission... Why not just admit that in the five years you've been an alliance and accomplished nothing....
I am very happy with our achievements over the last five years.
What have you achieved?
True Knowledge |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 16:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Shakra Matrayus
Okay from my understanding, if Star Fraction decides to "Take space" so tp speak, its simply going to be so they have he licensing and the tech systems to run modules they would otherwise not be able to... while they may be the registered "Owners" of an area, they are simply in a mangerial role, and beyond people they would shoot anyways they wouldnt interfere with other pilots right to travel and operate within the space... as far as control towers being set to shoot anyone not friendly, well, thats more of a personal comfort bubble thing, all pilots have one of those in low security systems, paranoia is in our nature.
Your understanding is correct in the main Captain Matrayus. We make a distinction between an exclusive claim that denies transit to neutrals and the pure technical "claim" of sovereignty that is required to upgrade deployed systems technology in nullsec. As for our towers, our Kamela / lowsec towers have typically used NRDS rules of engagement and been set to fire upon hostiles only (we have used our towers as mustering points and titan bridge launching for many neutral pilots in the TLF and friendly forces in the area).
At this point I see no reason why our nullsec towers should not be similarly configured, they will respond to aggression or fire on -10 hostiles.
And of course any system that Star Fraction undertake to improve through investment and residency will be open for neutrals to travel and enjoy the space. And we'll be very happy for our many friends and allies to join us in such developments.
True Knowledge |
Grr
Amarr
Epitoth Guard
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 17:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Nooblog
Thanks, I thought my comprehension of the language clearly written, was off. Glad we have you here to be as obfuscatory as possible. Pardon the delay in transmission... Why not just admit that in the five years you've been an alliance and accomplished nothing....
I am very happy with our achievements over the last five years.
What have you achieved?
Wow. I normally avoid reading and certainly responding to any of your posts for fear of somehow dirtying myself but morbid curiosity got the better of me this time...
As expected five years of not achievements but five years of lies.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.07 18:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Grr
Wow. I normally avoid reading and certainly responding to any of your posts for fear of somehow dirtying myself but morbid curiosity got the better of me this time...
As expected five years of not achievements but five years of lies.
I don't believe a member of the CVA has any right to accuse any other capsuleer of lying. Your reputation is worthless, go away and hide some more.
True Knowledge |
Sarius Deteis
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 18:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Iteken Hotori
Originally by: Major Templar
So does it really matter if Star Fraction are in there? Does Providence really matter anymore? In my opinion, no, it does not. And one way to see this trend, well look at K forums and SHC and also here on Eve forums, Providence threads are pretty much dead.
Nice Rhetoric. I am fairly sure it matters to the Myriad of Free Alliances moving willing into "New Providence." Alliances previously denied land by a corrupt, morally bankrupt regime only out to fill it's own pockets at the expense of the Poor and Enslaved.
Can anyone else see the flaw? As soon as I read this I said yup! There it is! All of these systems that have been taken over will be rented out to this "Myriad of Free Alliances"; all of them have different loyalties, ideas, and standings. What happens when one decides to take space from the other? What happens when their very security is threatened by the ones who were "denied land" the first time, and are now hungry for more? Will -A- or U'K place checks on their space and allow some but not others to inhabit this area? Will they charge rent for this area and control it with an iron fist to ensure their investments; much unlike the "morally bankrupt regime who was out to only fill it's own pockets at the expense of the Poor and Enslaved". Given your statement sir it appears as though you are preaching into the nano-mirror. Besides, your "New Providence" will fail because of inability to control the use of forks in your controlled regions.
AMARR VICTOR!
Amarr Victory
WTB 8 lowslot Inty |
Sarius Deteis
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 18:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Nooblog
I find the following comical...
Quote:
Political Philosophy of The Star Fraction
Our philosophy is both straightforward and yet politically complex when compared with the majority of polarised territorial, nationalist and imperial mindsets common to the cluster at the moment:
* We do not claim space. That is to say we do not put up a flag and say: "this is our backyard, come here and weÆll set the dogs on you!"
I wouldn't expect anything less considering your new landlords are as big of hypocrites as your organization is.
You appear to be having trouble understanding what seems to me a most simple and clearly illustrated principle. We will not shoot people for "tresspassing". Space is nobody's "backyard".
Are you really confused about this or are you simply trying to make a weak attack on the intentional confusion of motives?
So we can expect to not see any sovereignty claims by Star Fraction anywhere by your own logic correct? Wait, Wait...
Quote:
Your understanding is correct in the main Captain Matrayus. We make a distinction between an exclusive claim that denies transit to neutrals and the pure technical "claim" of sovereignty that is required to upgrade deployed systems technology in nullsec. As for our towers, our Kamela / lowsec towers have typically used NRDS rules of engagement and been set to fire upon hostiles only (we have used our towers as mustering points and titan bridge launching for many neutral pilots in the TLF and friendly forces in the area).
And of course any system that Star Fraction undertake to improve through investment and residency will be open for neutrals to travel and enjoy the space. And we'll be very happy for our many friends and allies to join us in such developments.
Ah ha, there it is. Some how those two statements, alongside your alliance mission statement, are traveling in completely different directions. After all numerous Free alliances and corporations met with success and prosperity, while helping the overall glory of Providence, without actually claiming sovereignty. If these smaller groups (I was once a member of such a group) can do this then surely an alliance like Star Fraction can do it. I guess what it boils down to is sitting and waiting to see if (A) your next transmission takes us in another direction yet again (B) you make some harsh remark about me and my reputation to improve the probability that people will agree with your point (although you do not know me) (C) take sovereignty and prove everyone in New Eden right in regards to what they really think about your alliance.
I for one am standing by in Misaba station, awaiting one of these paths to come true.
Amarr Victory
WTB 8 lowslot Inty |
Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 19:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sarius Deteis
Ah ha, there it is. Some how those two statements, alongside your alliance mission statement, are traveling in completely different directions.
Perhaps only to your deluded mind, slave of the CVA.
Quote:
After all numerous Free alliances and corporations met with success and prosperity, while helping the overall glory of Providence, without actually claiming sovereignty. If these smaller groups (I was once a member of such a group) can do this then surely an alliance like Star Fraction can do it.
You are forgetting the epic spasms of rage of your current executor Aralis who has declared that NRDS is "impossible" in the current mechanisms of sovereignty. CVA dominion of Providence was doubtless possible once upon a time when tower spam was everything but the moment any actual freedom of movement and honest diplomacy between equals was required then Providence fell apart at the seams. CVA was happy as long as it was dominating others and controlling all standings. Now that time has passed and CVA themselves go towards the history books.
Quote:
I guess what it boils down to is sitting and waiting to see if (A) your next transmission takes us in another direction yet again (B) you make some harsh remark about me and my reputation to improve the probability that people will agree with your point (although you do not know me)
I know all I need to know of you pilot Deteis. You are a non amarrian slave of a regressive amarrian supremacist organization. You are worth less than the fleas on the organ-grinder's monkey. And even saying that I think I run the risk of paying you too much credit.
True Knowledge |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 19:30:00 -
[27]
Those who base their view of the Star Fraction on what we have actually said and what we have actually done tend to accept that we speak and act in good faith even if they totally disagree with our political views and the actions we take. Our enemies are typically another matter.
In this vein, I would like to offer a small selection of things that I have said, let alone others, on the subject of the development and exploitation of the Outer Worlds.
Originally by: "The Cosmopolite, July YC108"
We note that the establishment of UNITY Station is yet another example of capsuleers developing the high frontiers of the Cluster in a spirit of liberty and openness. This is to be celebrated by all who are interested in the economic and political development of the Outer Worlds.
Originally by: "The Cosmopolite, March YC109"
We have always maintained that the development of the outer worlds, including with POS and outposts, is not per se a bad thing at all and, indeed, can be highly beneficial.
Where people offer the facilities of the outposts they have constructed, purchased or otherwise acquired with their effort and investment, on reasonable terms of fair exchange we have no problems with them. If their interests and ours coincide to some degree, we can assess the issue of assisting them where we are able.
Originally by: "The Cosmopolite, November YC111"
The essence of our view with regard to space is summed up by the concept of use and occupancy.
The easiest way to think about this is to note that the Star Fraction has never been opposed to starbases and outposts. The position with those constructs is quite clear. An entity builds a starbase or outpost and thus both occupies and uses the space in question. The starbase or outpost adds distinct and persistent value to the volume of space it occupies and the owners of the structure are regularly and indeed essentially constantly using the space in an entirely legitimate manner. The resources in question, which are the moons and planets the gravity wells of which allow the siting of starbases and outposts, are such that they can only be used by one primary party at a time for this purpose [...].
This is very different to vast stretches of space that many entities insist on trying to prevent others from using (typically merely for transit purposes) which they do not consistently use and occupy on a basis that would make it possible to assign property rights.
[...]
So therefore, when people try to exclude others from entire systems, let alone regions, we say this is not justified on the basis of defence of property. They are not defending their property, they are excluding others from space that cannot be regarded as property in the normal sense.
Note the dates and then let us look at the rather simple statement from our well-known ideological statement, in itself present on IGS in that form since January YC109, and now available for full review here, and rooted in our consistent approach to this question:
Originally by: "Excerpt from The Political Philosophy of the Star Fraction
We do not claim space. That is to say we do not put up a flag and say: "this is our backyard, come here and weÆll set the dogs on you!"
This is a simple statement followed by a simple elaboration on the statement.
1) We do not claim space.
2) This means we won't be putting up a flag that means a particular space is our property from which others are excluded.
The distinction between political sovereignty over space and infrastructure-based sovereignty is one we have always made. Indeed, the two must be different as the former was being claimed by many entities in many regions long before infrastructure was established by any capsuleers.
Thus, if the Star Fraction were to establish sovereignty over infrastructure in a system we would not be claiming space in that system.
The Cosmopolite
The Star Fraction Communications Portal |
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 19:47:00 -
[28]
While i do acknowledge that contrary to some others, SF does maintain NRDS everywhere, unlike some of their friends who are NRDS everywhere except where they operate, some things i cannot understand.
Quote:
So therefore, when people try to exclude others from entire systems, let alone regions, we say this is not justified on the basis of defence of property. They are not defending their property, they are excluding others from space that cannot be regarded as property in the normal sense.
While i disagree, i understand why SF has issues with CVA and would rather see it different. Yet even SF shouldnt be able to deny that CVA lead providence did allow 95% of the people who didnt come to providence for easy kills to operate there, and protect them as well as reasonably could be done. Also they did have docking rights for very reasonable fees, exactly what you said in your post you wanted.
Yet what is the course of action of SF? Work together with the largest nap train of nbsi alliances in the history of capsuleers in eve to remove that, and move it back to a wasteland. Where even if UKs dream would happen and it doesnt just become another rented region, a random capsuleer wouldnt have a chance of surviving and wouldnt have docking rights in the vast majority of the stations, and wouldnt get any support anywhere.
So please answer me, why help destroying those who did what you preferred for 95% of the capsuleers, by aiding those who are exactly the opposite of what you want? Why if you want freespace, attack those who come at least reasonably close, instead of attacking those who locked down their space for everyone who doesnt have blue standings?
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Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.04.07 20:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Furb Killer
While i disagree, i understand why SF has issues with CVA and would rather see it different. Yet even SF shouldnt be able to deny that CVA lead providence did allow 95% of the people who didnt come to providence for easy kills to operate there, and protect them as well as reasonably could be done. Also they did have docking rights for very reasonable fees, exactly what you said in your post you wanted.
Try to understand that from our perspective the very instinct to "protect" the weak by just telling them what standings to adopt and inform who is "good" and who is "bad" is a paternalist controlling instinct that leads inevitably to corruption and tyranny. We consider it is far better for individual pilots to look to their own defense and learn to protect themselves rather than giving up their individual liberty and allowing a stronger centrist power to make all their decisions for them.
This aside from the despicable nature of the CVA as a slave-owning imperialist power intent on spreading the regressive mindset of Amarrian holders to the virgin territories of the frontier.
It was impossible for men and women of good nature and independent spirit to reach amicable terms with such a power as the CVA. To do so is to surrender everything worth striving for in life. To live as a slave to a stronger power is venal and despicable and a betrayal of the opportunities granted the capsuleer caste in New Eden.
Quote:
Yet what is the course of action of SF? Work together with the largest nap train of nbsi alliances in the history of capsuleers in eve to remove that, and move it back to a wasteland. Where even if UKs dream would happen and it doesnt just become another rented region, a random capsuleer wouldnt have a chance of surviving and wouldnt have docking rights in the vast majority of the stations, and wouldnt get any support anywhere.
I don't see a wasteland, I see new opportunity, fresh ideas, profit and honesty. I see the cloying territory of slave-mongers and imperialists washed clean and restored to an earlier potential.
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So please answer me, why help destroying those who did what you preferred for 95% of the capsuleers, by aiding those who are exactly the opposite of what you want?
CVA did nothing but breed weaklings and cowards. I have zero sympathy for those who were content to live under the slaver's shadow in providence holding their nose against the stink of imperialist patriarchy and averting their eyes from the extermination and torture camps on the planets below.
I have zero respect for those that became our enemies not for any action of our pilots but simply because the Slave Holders of the CVA told them we should be fired at.
The new generation of neutral pilots in Providence must take responsibility for their own safety and negotiate diplomatic arrangements in their own name and reputation. The time for worms crawling in the shadow of the slaver lash is passed.
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Why if you want freespace, attack those who come at least reasonably close, instead of attacking those who locked down their space for everyone who doesnt have blue standings?
CVA is further from the freespace ideal I love than any other entity in space. Their standings enclosurist regime on dictated red-list was ever as controlling as NBSI dogma elsewhere in space, this combined with their mission to spread the corruption of Amarrian Imperialism and willing cultivation of a puling servant class capsuleer incapable of deciding their own politics represented the vilest organization in Eve.
True Knowledge |
The Cosmopolite
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.04.07 20:34:00 -
[30]
I think it is well-established in the minds of those who have followed the various... shall we say 'debates'? ...between the Star Fraction and the CVA that we both have rather different ideas on what constitutes an NRDS policy and what constitutes an open and free environment in which neutrals can develop independently. I don't think it would be that worthwhile repeating multiple, multi-page threads worth of disputation on all that.
Suffice to say, the Star Fraction does not and did not consider that the CVA achieved 'what [we] preferred for 95% of the capsuleers'. Putting aside all attempts at, with respect, meaningless quantification, our views are diametrically opposed when it comes to the question of developing systems and regions of the Outer Worlds.
Interestingly, a case-study of this is our respective attitudes to the ISS alliance. ISS was a project that foundered on the shoals of overextension and misfortune but was in our view a worthy enterprise. The Star Fraction, and Jericho Fraction in particular, supported the core principles of the ISS project and, indeed, put our money where our mouth was: it is fair to say that the Freecaptains were, as a group, substantial investors in ISS Borealis and to a lesser extent in outposts such as ISS Providence. (Which fact also demonstrates that we have acted consistently with what we have said when it comes to the development of Outer Worlds infrastructure.)
I think the CVA's approach when it comes to the ISS is a matter of historical record. Suffice, again, to say that no-one would regard the CVA as a supporter of that particular project of neutrality-respecting development of the Outer Worlds.
When it comes to development of a system, I take the view that it would be a profoundly good thing if:
1) Neutrals had free passage through said system.
2) Neutrals had free access to asteroid belts and other naturally-occuring resources in said system.
3) Neutrals had free rein to engage in any bounty-hunting or piracy-suppression activities they wished in said system.
4) Neutrals had free rein to indulge in exploratory activities in said system.
5) Neutrals could place starbases at any unoccupied moons in said system without having to seek anyone's permission (though notifying local infrastructure owners of their presence would be polite).
6) Owners of infrastructure in a given system treated with neutrals on a fair and equitable basis.
Possibly someone will put these notions into action in Providence. We shall see.
The Cosmopolite
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