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Dodgy Past Amarr Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.04.06 18:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Exploding Tukey A cruise raven will hit even frigs that an Abbadon can't come close to tracking. Missiles dont miss! Frigates tend to be insta popped at around 80km for me when in an abaddon ;) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
Vitamin B12 Tyrell Megacorporation	Posted - 2010.04.06 18:44:00 - [32] Originally by: Naomi Knight Actually if you are a new player you have to use a cruiser/bc before your raven ,so heavy m-->cruise m oh and if you want to try out torp then that too. And possibly you will learn the light one too. Then you need target painter skills. So after all I dont think that skilling for the raven is much faster, than for any other npcing bs. Btw it is strange that those who say raven is the best dont use it ,they use paladins and vargurs how weird is that :) Oh and missile delay will hurt you badly if you want to npc in a gang many volleys wont reach your targets^^+ most npc will shoot defender missiles(dunno how much this lowers your dps now). The raven is only good if you have to change dmg type frequently, but hey mael/vargur can do that too,same for dominix. in my beginning time i didnt use target painters and also had my fun. and please dont compare a t1 battleship with a marauder. i use a golem right now with torps. and yes i didnt skill battlecruiser and yes i didnt skill cruiser. i just skilled on a destroyer and salvaged the **** out of my mates lvl4 missions
GreenpeaceHippie	Posted - 2010.04.06 22:23:00 - [33] Well then that begs the question, what IS the best non tech 2, non faction missioning BS in terms of efficiency?
Liang Nuren The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.06 22:29:00 - [34] Originally by: GreenpeaceHippie Well then that begs the question, what IS the best non tech 2, non faction missioning BS in terms of efficiency? Depends where you live... Amarr space I'd go with an Abaddon. Minmatar space a Raven or a Maelstrom. Caldari/Gallente space a Domi or Raven would be fine. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Skex Relbore	Posted - 2010.04.08 17:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Vitamin B12 well its pretty easy to explain. skilltime caldari missiles: nothing -> large everything else turrets: small -> medium -> large you can go directly to the large weapons. Actually if you are a new player you have to use a cruiser/bc before your raven ,so heavy m-->cruise m oh and if you want to try out torp then that too. And possibly you will learn the light one too. Then you need target painter skills. So after all I dont think that skilling for the raven is much faster, than for any other npcing bs. Yeah it is if for no other reason that you can go straight for T2 cruise without having to pass through all the smaller sized weapons. For example with a Domi I have to train smalls and medium rails to 5 plus their specs to 4 before being able to train large spec to get access to T2 weapons. For Cruise however you can go straight to T2 cruise without having to do the small and medium long range misile systems first. It's an 82 day train from 0 with a non-remamped non-implanted minmatar character (used since that's the only char I had in EVEmon that didn't have missile or rail skills trained) to get access to T2 cruise lanchers and ammo compared to 172 days to train to T2 Rails. That's damn near a doubling in training time. Between the two. Compared to say the best Gallante Mission ship the Domi which also needs drone skills 57 for T2 heavies and 89 for T2 Sentries compared to the additional 15 days for T2 Medium drones for the Raven. So yeah the Raven is a much shorter skill slog than the Domi or any turret based ship. Because while you are right that most Caldari pilots will probably have spent some skill points in Small and medium missiles before training T2 Cruise not all Raven pilots will have and they aren't forced to train T2 medium and small missile systems before being able to train T2 Large long ranged missiles unlike the turret user who has to train the T2 variants of their smaller weapon systems prior to training the next larger. Complicate this even further with split weapon system ships like the Domi or the Typhoon and tempest which all have to train for secondary weapon systems that take at least as long as the primary system used by the Raven pilot ( in the case of the Minnie ships the exact same weapon system) it is clear as a bell that the Raven is much quicker to skill for.
Jintra Jin'tak Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vivisection.	Posted - 2010.04.08 20:13:00 - [36] Originally by: Djavo I wouldn't swap my Navy Issue Geddon for a Raven, missioning in Amarr so it's all good! This. Properly fit Navy-Geddon = 720 turret-DPS @ 59+17 km with scorch. (+300 odd Drone DpS from heavys or Sentrys)
Jacob Stov	Posted - 2010.04.08 22:07:00 - [37] Dunno where you are flying your missions, but when I run missions with my minmatar alt I see mostly Maels, some Domis and every now and then a Drake or Raven. The Mael is just so much better then a Raven. There are some missions I would pick a missile ship over a Mael, but definately no Ravenkind. Nighthawk/Tengu for me in those rare cases.
Liang Nuren The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.08 22:10:00 - [38] Originally by: Jacob Stov Dunno where you are flying your missions, but when I run missions with my minmatar alt I see mostly Maels, some Domis and every now and then a Drake or Raven. The Mael is just so much better then a Raven. There are some missions I would pick a missile ship over a Mael, but definately no Ravenkind. Nighthawk/Tengu for me in those rare cases. I'm glad to see that you don't base your decision on effectiveness. :) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Azcatl	Posted - 2010.04.08 23:11:00 - [39] Most of the responses in this thread FAIL For 1 a Raven in T1 tier1, why are we comparing it to Navy Issue ships???? If the people flying Ravens could afford a Navy Issue they would be flying it. Same goes for mauraders. People fly Ravens as their FIRST Battleship, why do you T2 lovers think this is??? Heres some logic for you 1. They can't afford a better ship 2. They have Low SP. Now I'm not saying that the Raven is best but maybe it popular due to the above points. Raven pilots won't be in a Raven for long, they WILL upgrade to a better BS as soon as they can and usually the next upgrade is a Navy Issue. Rank over
Birdman Ravo Legion of The Birds	Posted - 2010.04.09 01:43:00 - [40] How many Gallente battleships fire hybrids and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Amarr battleships fire lasers and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Minmatar battleships fire projectiles and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Caldari battleships fire missiles and have a place in PVE? One! IMO it's popular because there's a lot of Caldari PVE players who like missiles and simply don't have any alternative to a Raven without cross training Minmatar to get into a Typhoon.
Azcatl	Posted - 2010.04.09 01:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Birdman Ravo How many Gallente battleships fire hybrids and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Amarr battleships fire lasers and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Minmatar battleships fire projectiles and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Caldari battleships fire missiles and have a place in PVE? One! IMO it's popular because there's a lot of Caldari PVE players who like missiles and simply don't have any alternative to a Raven without cross training Minmatar to get into a Typhoon. This but with the addition of people reading that Golem is best maurader (not saying it is but most topics say it is) so people start up their mission toons with this goal in mind and the Raven is the obvious starting BS. These toons are also the ones flying all the damned Drakes as well ;P
Mattk50 Caldari Executive Intervention	Posted - 2010.04.09 13:38:00 - [42] tengu>golem in most missions.
Kidain Gallente As Far As The eYe can see	Posted - 2010.04.09 14:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Azcatl Originally by: Birdman Ravo How many Gallente battleships fire hybrids and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Amarr battleships fire lasers and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Minmatar battleships fire projectiles and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Caldari battleships fire missiles and have a place in PVE? One! IMO it's popular because there's a lot of Caldari PVE players who like missiles and simply don't have any alternative to a Raven without cross training Minmatar to get into a Typhoon. these toons are also the ones flying all the damned Drakes as well ;P hey leave my lovely Drake out of this! hugs Drake I use The Domi and The Raven. And both are super ships for missioning. Going the way of the Caldari now though so looking into Tengu land, as I am unsure of the Proteus -------------------------------------- In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion. - Douglas Adams
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.09 15:05:00 - [44] Originally by: Mattk50 tengu>golem in most missions. This is either a spiteful or ignorant opinion. At any rate, it's very false. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
T1coon	Posted - 2010.04.09 16:10:00 - [45] I'm sort-of a newb...but doesn't the Raven take a massive DPS hit with BS's who use defender missiles? Doesn't it take your effective DPS from 100% to 66% (or worse - depending on the number of defenders the enemy ship is employing)?
Daratori	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:27:00 - [46] Originally by: T1coon I'm sort-of a newb...but doesn't the Raven take a massive DPS hit with BS's who use defender missiles? Doesn't it take your effective DPS from 100% to 66% (or worse - depending on the number of defenders the enemy ship is employing)? When you do L4s in a raven you will see some defenders being used, but it usually only hit's 1 of the 6 missiles and they will only do it every 2-3 volleys so it doesn't effect performance that much.
Kneebone Heathens' Harbor	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:49:00 - [47] Coming from someone who flys fully T2/Factioned BS's of all races I can say that the best missioning ship out there is which ever one you enjoy flying the most. At the moment I'm on a Domi kick. The Pulse Apoc is a personal fav and the whole reason I fly Amarr at all is because I think the Abaddon looks badass. The Raven/CNR, while ugly, is a damn fine ship to fly so long as you get past the "Perma Run X-L" setups and fit for smart DPS instead of uber tank. I just hoped into Matar BS and I am digging them too. Fun ships to fly and definately have a feel to them. Of course when I am at work I just jump into my Ishtar, agro everything, release the hounds, and repeat.
Vardec Crom	Posted - 2010.04.09 21:59:00 - [48] Edited by: Vardec Crom on 09/04/2010 22:01:32 Originally by: Mara Rinn As an extreme example, it is possible for my Raven to project cruise missiles about 250km. The flight time of those missiles is in the order of minutes, and the raven has to stay on grid for that whole flight time. Should the Raven be destroyed, cloak or warp off before the missiles arrive, the missiles will disappear. A Rokh on the other hand can land on grid, target the enemy, fire a couple of rounds (which impact the target instantly), then warp off-grid before the first salvo of cruise missiles impacts the target (assuming the target is still there). Which I find to be ironic in a realistic sense. Cruise missiles with BS 5 travel around 8000 m/s, which is 2-3 times as fast as real life modern railguns (the fastest projectile weapons to date) which seems reasonable for being 15000 years in the future. This means it would take 31 seconds to reach a target at 250 km's. (not minutes btw). On the other hand, a railgun Rokh would have to accelarate a projectile at 250,000 m/s, or 900,000 km/h or 559,000 mph, almost instantly in order for it to hit a target 250 km's away nearly instantly. Just thought I would point out CCP's glaring break from reality :P
SuperNova221 Ragnarok Rising THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.04.09 22:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Birdman Ravo How many Gallente battleships fire hybrids and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Amarr battleships fire lasers and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Minmatar battleships fire projectiles and have a place in PVE? Three. How many Caldari battleships fire missiles and have a place in PVE? One! IMO it's popular because there's a lot of Caldari PVE players who like missiles and simply don't have any alternative to a Raven without cross training Minmatar to get into a Typhoon. Well, since you're asking "How many (race) battleships fire (weapon) and have a place in PvE?" instead of "How many (race) battleships fire (weapon) and are effective in PvE?" Amarr - 3 Caldari - 3 Gallente - 3 Minmatar - 3 If we're going for how many effective ones for PvE. Amarr - 2 (Geddon only has 3 mids, can be used but not as effective as the others) Caldari - 1 (Raven, Rokh could be counted but I'm only counting missile based ships) Gallente - 1 (Domi, I've used the Thron in misisons with T2 weapons, and a T1 beam Abaddon I used performed better in the respective Amarr missions, I wouldn't call the Thron effective) Minmatar - 1 (2 if you count the Pest) Your final point is valid though.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.09 23:41:00 - [50] Originally by: T1coon I'm sort-of a newb...but doesn't the Raven take a massive DPS hit with BS's who use defender missiles? Doesn't it take your effective DPS from 100% to 66% (or worse - depending on the number of defenders the enemy ship is employing)? Usually only knocks a missile out of a volley. What does suck about defenders is if you're sniping & know how many volleys a ship needs, they'll knock the count off and you end up wasting missiles ( and thus time, and when you're 100+ km away, it's quite a lot of time ).
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.10 01:59:00 - [51] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 10/04/2010 02:02:03 Originally by: Exploding Tukey Cruise Raven dps at 100km = Cruise Raven dps at 5km. Time it takes for Cruise Raven to get into optimal range = 0 if target within 120km I really like this fact about my cruise CNR (Liang's fit, but with Arbalest launchers and no painter). I'm lazy. The most moving I want to do is towards the next gate. Quote: A cruise raven will hit even frigs that an Abbadon can't come close to tracking. Missiles dont miss! I have no problem one or two shotting BC with my poor skills and CNR. Destroyers are always a one-shot. Non-elite frigates are surprisingly easy, though I usually leave them for my drones. The only thing I have a problem with is cruisers. Probably my low skills, and that I don't use a painter. At least my sentry drones can deal with them pretty well.

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