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Marlona Sky
D00M.
RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.04.11 14:50:00 -
[31]
Titan DD in low sec: Making low-sec more like 0.0 since 2010!
How about we just get rid of low sec all together ehh?
I would support such an idea if instead of titans being stuck for 30 seconds, they were stuck for 2+ minutes after DDing. Otherwise this is just people wanting drive by DD's with even less risk than they already have.
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Commoner
Caldari
The Tuskers
The Tusker Bastards
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Posted - 2010.04.11 15:50:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Commoner on 11/04/2010 15:51:14
Not supported.
We would probably see alot of random single pilots sitting on gates and stations blasting everything...at random with virtually no risk.
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Larkonis Trassler
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.11 16:14:00 -
[33]
 Originally by: Commoner
Edited by: Commoner on 11/04/2010 15:51:14
Not supported.
We would probably see alot of random single pilots sitting on gates and stations blasting everything...at random with virtually no risk.
Ya, like all those solo MILF pilots we see sitting at gates and stations blasting everything with no risk...
Oh wai-
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
No. Larkonis |
SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.04.11 16:44:00 -
[34]
Edited by: SFShootme on 11/04/2010 16:45:51
Originally by: King Rothgar
But 20+ dreads with 30 seconds warning is asking a bit much of any low sec group. The only ones who can do that are alliances with 1000's of members and you won't find those in low sec. Only null sec has sufficient riches to support that many players.
This is going off topic though, the real reason titans should not and are not allowed to DD in low sec is because without bubbles, they can't be reasonably tackled and killed if all they are doing are drive by's with their one shot wonder gun. They can of course go to low sec and blast away with their heavily bonused weapons and jump bridge fleets around. But those actions are less powerful and are more easily countered by the game mechanics and resources of low sec.
*ahum*
I don't see any problem with hics tackleing a titan either way. Yes there wont be normall light dictor bubbles (that can be smartbombed!). But with 5 hics on a t i t t y it aint going anywhere anytime soon, specially with carriers taking turns at repping the hics when they don't have their point on. Only extra disadvantage is is that the hics ~could~ be jammed.
Fact of the matter is is that it would be dead easy to bait a reckless lowsec titan pilot.
-SFS
[VIDEO] Paroxysm
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yourdoingitwrong
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Posted - 2010.04.11 16:57:00 -
[35]
way too many titans in game these days. They do not die frequently enough as it is. We do not need the Iwin button back. Glad its gone.
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NightmareX
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.11 17:14:00 -
[36]
Edited by: NightmareX on 11/04/2010 17:16:27
ROFL, you guys that says a Titan have no risks in Low sec by sitting at a station or a gate. Can i ask you if you know much about EVE?. Or are you very new to EVE?.
Because like we in IT Alliance, we are living in X-70 that are one capital jump to Aunenen and Saranen for example. Anyone who lives on a place like us can pretty much hot drop into Low sec with tons of carriers / dreads / super carriers and even titans in one jump.
I'm still in for bringing back the dd in low sec, since the dd today are for single targets only now.
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Ceralio
The Carebear Stare
Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2010.04.11 18:15:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Ceralio on 11/04/2010 18:15:04
Originally by: yourdoingitwrong
way too many titans in game these days. They do not die frequently enough as it is. We do not need the Iwin button back. Glad its gone.
The iwin button was when we could remote doomsday trough cyno fields. Using your titan to doomsday in a system you do not have a POS in is extremely risky, since you will be stuck unable to cloak or cyno out of the system for 10 minutes. If anything, this should get more titans killed.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar
Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2010.04.11 22:17:00 -
[38]
no thanks, if I wanted doomsdays and blobs I would go to 0.0
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.11 22:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Gneeznow
no thanks, if I wanted doomsdays and blobs I would go to 0.0
This. IMO (even futher), Titans and Supercarriers should further limited to sov based 0.0.
Not Supported.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Manalapan
Dynasty Banking
General Tso's Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.11 22:30:00 -
[40]
I think this should be brought back. There is no reason a DD can't be used in lowsec it is essentially just a really really large gun. You carebears need to get over that someone might have a bigger ship than you and need to realize that the **** that happens in 0.0 happens in low sec too. Invica hot drops anyone?
Support Manalapan for CSM!
We must stand together against the oppressive neo-carebears. A vote for Manalapan is a vote for Scammers and Griefers everywhere!
[url="http://www.dyco-eve.com/manalap |
Hesperius
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.11 22:41:00 -
[41]
Ignorant suggestion.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.11 22:41:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Manalapan
I think this should be brought back. There is no reason a DD can't be used in lowsec it is essentially just a really really large gun. You carebears need to get over that someone might have a bigger ship than you and need to realize that the **** that happens in 0.0 happens in low sec too. Invica hot drops anyone?
Lowsec has a very different ecosystem than does 0.0. Presently, it has a much worse ecosystem in many ways - adding doomsdaying titans isn't going to improve it either. Titans can already bridge 200 battleships in - they don't need to be instantly vaporizing the 5 caps a lowsec alliance can scrap together too. 
Or maybe you're suggesting that lowsec gets titan doomsdays, bubbles, Military indexes+sanctums while 0.0 gains gate guns and sec hits for aggression?
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.11 23:10:00 -
[43]
stop trying to make losec a barrel and smaller corps/alliances the fish for the 0.0 egomaniacs.
not supported
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Corbeau Lenoir
ZER0.
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.12 05:51:00 -
[44]
There is no reason that DD shouldn't be in lowsec. Hictors work fine there, so any victim of DD is able to prepare a trap for titan pilot.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.12 05:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Corbeau Lenoir
There is no reason that DD shouldn't be in lowsec. Hictors work fine there, so any victim of DD is able to prepare a trap for titan pilot.
Yes and my Sabre works fine there too, yes?
-Liang |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.12 07:39:00 -
[46]
Lowsec definitely doesn't need doomsdaying.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
steave435
Caldari
Final Agony
B A N E
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Posted - 2010.04.12 08:16:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Manalapan
I think this should be brought back. There is no reason a DD can't be used in lowsec it is essentially just a really really large gun. You carebears need to get over that someone might have a bigger ship than you and need to realize that the **** that happens in 0.0 happens in low sec too. Invica hot drops anyone?
Lowsec has a very different ecosystem than does 0.0. Presently, it has a much worse ecosystem in many ways - adding doomsdaying titans isn't going to improve it either. Titans can already bridge 200 battleships in - they don't need to be instantly vaporizing the 5 caps a lowsec alliance can scrap together too.
Or maybe you're suggesting that lowsec gets titan doomsdays, bubbles, Military indexes+sanctums while 0.0 gains gate guns and sec hits for aggression?
-Liang
This.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2010.04.12 20:55:00 -
[48]
not supported for aforementioned reasons
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.12 22:15:00 -
[49]
You know - I think this thread really highlights that there's a real problem with 0.0 right now. The 0.0 alliances are so blue to each other and bored that they're trying to be able to doomsday the 5 caps a lowsec alliance can put together with their 50 titan fleets. Don't you guys have a war to fight in 0.0?
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Mimiru Minahiro
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Posted - 2010.04.13 02:44:00 -
[50]
I go back and forth on this issue...
One the one hand DD's seriously have the ability to make life difficult for the truely small corps/alliances; as has been argued by several people above.
On the other hand, since moon goo changes were introduced there has been an uptake in the number of pilots from powerblock alliances and/or thier alt corps. Anywhere there is a tech moon you will find them. Given the higher numbers, it makes sense to let DD's go forward. It provides a means to deter your enemy from using caps (without the supporting fleets like you see in 0.0) to break open your pinata...err...POS (moon miner).
Kind of funny how CCP listened to its player base and made lowsec more lucrative, only to start getting complaints about how its turning into 0.0.
Someone convince me to get off the fence and either support or not.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.13 04:30:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Mimiru Minahiro
Kind of funny how CCP listened to its player base and made lowsec more lucrative, only to start getting complaints about how its turning into 0.0.
The problem here is that they're only asking to add some of the things from 0.0 - specifically things which are seen as extremely negative by the inhabitants! And what makes it worse is that the counters that do exist are naturally weaker in lowsec than in 0.0. Yes, HICs exist in lowsec and targeted warp disruption works... but you can't use AOE bubbles (including mobile warp and dictors). Many of the counters to titans and supercarriers that exist in 0.0 do not exist in lowsec. Therefore as long as those ships are "fully featured", they are much more powerful in lowsec than in 0.0.
You claim that CCP listened to its players and made low sec more lucrative, but that's not really true. The arguments for making low sec more lucrative revolved entirely around the people that already lived there... not the sometimes-residents from 0.0 with massive supercap blobs to doomsday anyone that dares to undock a carrier and run a L5.
I mean really, if you want to make lowsec into 0.0... just ****ing do it. Don't bring all the ****ty parts of 0.0 into already ****ty lowsec. Puh-****ing-lease.
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Tibalt Avalon
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2010.04.13 04:38:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tibalt Avalon on 13/04/2010 04:38:18
Originally by: Manalapan
I think this should be brought back. There is no reason a DD can't be used in lowsec it is essentially just a really really large gun. You carebears need to get over that someone might have a bigger ship than you and need to realize that the **** that happens in 0.0 happens in low sec too. Invica hot drops anyone?
I doubt people are going to vote you into CSM with comments like this, though DDing should be allowed in Low Sec.
Look forward to fools DDing in Low Sec and then get jumped by gang of 100 Cruisers Faction Warfarers etc...
That would shut people up for sure...
Hardstyle Ambassador |
Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.04.13 04:47:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Mimiru Minahiro
Someone convince me to get off the fence and either support or not.
Maybe some small low sec corps want to have fun using big ships, and if they lose the ships they worked hard to get its in a fight, not to a titan? Mind you there is a 30 second docking period when you cant dock after you cyno jump, so everything is vulnerable to a low sec DD - even your JF.
The 4 big things that make low sec what it is - no bubbles, no DD, sec hits, gate guns.
Instead of this lame idea how about not making EVERYONE in 0.0 blue? Obviously you are hurting for targets if you think this is a good idea. Just a thought.
On that note, I cant believe I entertained this idea even this much. This thread needs to be burred by good ideas.
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Cpt Advile
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Posted - 2010.04.13 09:56:00 -
[54]
signed
--------------------------------------------
Captain: Scotty, boost amarr laser power...
CCP Scotty: I cannot' change the laws of physics.
(Stay tuned for next episode where we pre-nerf ur boost) |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.13 12:20:00 -
[55]
Giving Titans doomsday capability in low-sec is idiocy and highly imbalanced without adding all the stuff which you have in 0.0 to combat caps, which cannot be done without breaking lowsec completely. End of story.
Low-sec is not 0.0. Adding the bad things about 0.0 to lowsec just makes it into a retar-ded version of NPC 0.0. If you want more 0.0 space then ask for more 0.0 space. You'll probably NAP whoever comes there anyway in a week's time, however.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mimiru Minahiro
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Posted - 2010.04.13 17:46:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Mimiru Minahiro on 13/04/2010 17:50:39
Edited by: Mimiru Minahiro on 13/04/2010 17:48:03
Originally by: Liang Nuren
The problem here is that they're only asking to add some of the things from 0.0 - specifically things which are seen as extremely negative by the inhabitants! And what makes it worse is that the counters that do exist are naturally weaker in lowsec than in 0.0. Yes, HICs exist in lowsec and targeted warp disruption works... but you can't use AOE bubbles (including mobile warp and dictors). Many of the counters to titans and supercarriers that exist in 0.0 do not exist in lowsec. Therefore as long as those ships are "fully featured", they are much more powerful in lowsec than in 0.0.
You claim that CCP listened to its players and made low sec more lucrative, but that's not really true. The arguments for making low sec more lucrative revolved entirely around the people that already lived there... not the sometimes-residents from 0.0 with massive supercap blobs to doomsday anyone that dares to undock a carrier and run a L5.
I mean really, if you want to make lowsec into 0.0... just ****ing do it. Don't bring all the ****ty parts of 0.0 into already ****ty lowsec. Puh-****ing-lease.
-Liang
Do you agree that with the moongoo changes 0.0 corps/alliances have a much more significant presence in lowsec now? As such it do you agree that it makes strategic sense for Titan use?
DO you agree that people are already rolling around in Cap/Supercap blobs ganking other solo/small gang caps.... hell even ganking BS (I saw 5 caps get hotdroped on a raven+domi mission running duo a week or so ago)? Adding DD's would not do anything except move the balance of power away from carriers/milfs. ::cry::
Do you agree that the majority of carriers found in lowsec are being used as haulers... ie jumping gear into 0.0 without having to worry about gates?
I would be all for limiting carriers, milfs,and titans to 0.0 (as a generalized statement...although specifics do matter). Sadly, this is not the case at the moment. I am just saying that I am not adverse to making things more difficult for logistics into 0.0 (both carrier and JF), supplying a counter/ escalation to the hotdrop (as someone said it would be dead easy to bait those arrogant solo titans people seem to worry about), and I am definately OK with nerfing solo L5 mission runners in the process.
Personally, I am happy as a clam without DD's. Adding DD's in low is really a non-issue for me as it would only frustrate my logistics. I am ok with this.
-fake edit: also lawlz at vitrolic responses. They made me giggle.
-realedit: Add time like Marlona said....maybe 5min?
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steave435
Caldari
Final Agony
B A N E
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Posted - 2010.04.13 19:37:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Do you agree that with the moongoo changes 0.0 corps/alliances have a much more significant presence in lowsec now?
No. It has always been like that with dysp and prom moons.
Quote:
As such it do you agree that it makes strategic sense for Titan use?
It makes strategic sense to deploy my newly invented behemoth class ship that can blow up an entire cap fleet, including the super caps, in 1 shot. That doesn't mean it should happen.
Quote:
DO you agree that people are already rolling around in Cap/Supercap blobs ganking other solo/small gang caps
Yes, but 1 bored pilot can't jump in way out of range of all other caps, kill 1 from 250km and then warp away a few seconds later. You atleast have a chance to fight the blob and get some people out. Additionally, if blobbing like that is already a problem, adding an entire new class as viable for that blob does not make sense. If anything, it should mean that fighter bombers aswell get restricted to 0.0, making a new system making more sense and gradually increasing the stakes:
High sec: No caps
Low sec: Normal caps
Null sec: Normal and super caps
Quote:
hell even ganking BS (I saw 5 caps get hotdroped on a raven+domi mission running duo a week or so ago)? Adding DD's would not do anything except move the balance of power away from carriers/milfs. ::cry::
See the difference there? 5 caps dropped on those 2 people. It would only take 1 titan to drop on those caps.
Quote:
Do you agree that the majority of carriers found in lowsec are being used as haulers... ie jumping gear into 0.0 without having to worry about gates?
No, they are commonly used for either triage support for BS gangs or for defending towers. Even DDs would not stop hauling though since just like when undocking on a non-kickout, you can just wait out you invulnerable session change timer and then dock.
Quote:
I would be all for limiting carriers, milfs,and titans to 0.0
Supercarriers and titans sure (although I'd allow them to enter so that the already risky super cap movement ops don't get insane by being forced to take them trough hostile 0.0), but carriers are the cap most people get first, and as such, are the first introduction to capitals for many. High sec is intended to be the semi-safe first introduction where newbies and casual players get to learn the basics and utilize only sub caps, comparable to a country with a good police force where you only get limited crime and occasionall gang warfare.
Low sec takes it a step higher by being lawless space where small groups battle for fun with no special reason, and to again introduce people to the next step (0.0) trough the use of the personal normal caps that most single players can afford, compare able to a city where the authorities have very limited power and most cops are bribed, instead leaving the mafia bosses to rule and enforce their will.
Finally, 0.0 moves over to player enforce law, serious business and no restrictions beyond what your enemy can restrict you from themselves with what was intended to be corp/alliance assets of super capitals. Compare this to a full scale war between nations.
You wouldn't see assault rifles and armored cars etc (capitals) in small scale gang warfare (high sec) but you might in mafia wars (low sec). You won't see tanks and fighters/bombers (super capitals) in anything but international conflicts though (0.0).
Each sec level is supposed to be 1 step up in the stakes and what risks are there, and that means that in the same way and for the same reasons normal caps are not allowed in high sec, super caps are end game and should be in the end game area of 0.0.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.04.13 19:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mimiru Minahiro
Do you agree that with the moongoo changes 0.0 corps/alliances have a much more significant presence in lowsec now?
Not really, no. They 0.0 alliances have always owned the really profitable lowsec moons.
Quote:
As such it do you agree that it makes strategic sense for Titan use?
Yes, it always makes strategic sense to use powerful units where they're much more difficult to counter.
Quote:
DO you agree that people are already rolling around in Cap/Supercap blobs ganking other solo/small gang caps.... hell even ganking BS (I saw 5 caps get hotdroped on a raven+domi mission running duo a week or so ago)?
Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, no. Either way it doesn't mean that we need to make the situation so much worse.
Quote:
Adding DD's would not do anything except move the balance of power away from carriers/milfs. ::cry::
TBH Supercarriers shouldn't be allowed to use fighter bombers in lowsec either. I even question titan bridges into low sec.
Quote:
Do you agree that the majority of carriers found in lowsec are being used as haulers... ie jumping gear into 0.0 without having to worry about gates?
No, I disagree with that. Carriers are used as BS fleet support and for POS defense mostly. I find your assumption that every cap pilot wants to live in 0.0 pretty .... revealing.
Quote:
I would be all for limiting carriers, milfs,and titans to 0.0
You do realize that supercarriers and titans are actually MORE POWERFUL in lowsec than in 0.0 right? Kick them out and leave carriers+dreads, IMO.
Quote:
I am definately OK with nerfing solo L5 mission runners in the process
The funny thing about that is that L5s aren't worth running if you run them with more than 2 people. You can literally blitz L4s and make both more ISK and LP.
Quote:
Personally, I am happy as a clam without DD's. Adding DD's in low is really a non-issue for me as it would only frustrate my logistics. I am ok with this.
It would frustrate your logistics... your LOGISTICS. You don't live in low sec - so I can see why you might have ulterior motives in making low sec dwellers nothing more than fish in a barrel for your 0.0 alliance. Don't you guys have a war to run in 0.0? Why don't you go back there?
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Mimiru Minahiro
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Posted - 2010.04.14 02:16:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Not really, no. They 0.0 alliances have always owned the really profitable lowsec moons.
I agree that the really profitable lowesec moons have always been owned by nullsec alliances. It is my understanding that the number of moons that are now "profitable" (as a % of the whole) has increased. BUT, I may be misinformed. I am just returning from a break and am relying on a very very small number of sources for information. If I was given inccorect info, then I agree that this objection is not relevant. I am after all only looking for a more reasoned list of objections then "hellz no"
Quote:
TBH Supercarriers shouldn't be allowed to use fighter bombers in lowsec either. I even question titan bridges into low sec.
I 100% agree.
Quote:
No, I disagree with that. Carriers are used as BS fleet support and for POS defense mostly. I find your assumption that every cap pilot wants to live in 0.0 pretty .... revealing.
It must be just my experience that most carriers were "passing through" a couple years ago.... then again it seemed like there were less caps in general back then so maybe this was the reason. I saw very few caps being deployed, even during POS shoots, for PvP type purposes in the two regions that I spent a lot of time in. I did see them being used for repping towers I admit... but as an overall %, the caps I came across were cyno-in:cyno-out. Or perhaps I just spent my time in the quieter sections of low.
Quote:
The funny thing about that is that L5s aren't worth running if you run them with more than 2 people. You can literally blitz L4s and make both more ISK and LP.
Did I mention I would be ok with nerfing missions....full stop.?
Quote:
It would frustrate your logistics... your LOGISTICS. You don't live in low sec - so I can see why you might have ulterior motives in making low sec dwellers nothing more than fish in a barrel for your 0.0 alliance. Don't you guys have a war to run in 0.0? Why don't you go back there?
Actually, truth be told, I am no longer in an alliance. This character is, sadly, my main due to some stuff that is frankly irrelevant to this thread(as i said I am returning from a break). Having a carrier to hop from pasture to pasture quickly and efficiently is worthwhile for me to have (well...once the alt on my 2nd account finishes carrier training  ).
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Mimiru Minahiro
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Posted - 2010.04.14 02:27:00 -
[60]
Originally by: steave435
See the difference there? 5 caps dropped on those 2 people. It would only take 1 titan to drop on those caps.
If what little birdies tell me is correct, this sounds like a "we who gank with caps do not want to be ganked in return". Though in all fairness the example was not you guys, and i cba to go over your KB....
PS- your RL analogy is pretty lol. I emplore you to read more about the armaments used by some groups (freedom fighters, terrorists... whatever you want to call them)in south america.
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