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Chris Chambers
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Posted - 2010.04.08 19:33:00 -
[1]
A simple way to increase people's resistance to ECM would be to just add a skill(s) that add "x" percentage to your ship's sensor strength. This would decrease the chance to get jammed but still keep the current mechanics of jamming. I feel this would bring more balance to the various forms of electronic warfare and bring ECM to a more level playing field.
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.04.08 19:50:00 -
[2]
It's not even subtle...
At least try, just a little 
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:02:00 -
[3]
not supported.
you already got those Faction warfare implants. also ECCM and backup arrays.
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Orion Zero
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:18:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Orion Zero on 08/04/2010 20:22:19
Edited by: Orion Zero on 08/04/2010 20:20:39
Edited by: Orion Zero on 08/04/2010 20:18:44
I think this is an excellent idea. There are already skills to raise just about every single stat on a ship other than sensor strength - so why not sensor strength?
As it currently stands, Jamming is an "I win" tactic. Adding ECCM modules is not very viable because it takes at least two ECCM and one backup array to give any meaningful resistance to Jamming, and "meaningful resistance" is by no means anywhere near invulnerability. Using two mid slots and one low slot just to be able to slightly resist something that you may or may not even encounter, but if you do encounter it you will be destroyed no matter your skill level or what ship you are in, is too big of a tradeoff.
Adding a skill that would raise the base sensor strength by about 5 - 10% per level would only give a very slight resistance on its own, but would increase the effect of ECCM modules since the base strength would be higher, making having one actually be a viable use of a midslot.
When one ship (Scorpion) can effectively remove 2-4 other battleships from a fight, something is seriously wrong with the balance.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:23:00 -
[5]
Problem is that a skill such as that would just make the gap between big - small even wider and act as an overall nerf to ECM.
What CCP should do is:
Cut 50% of the CPU cost on backup arrays.
Change bonus to 5-7 points OR +40-48% whichever yields higher.
Midslot ECCM will never have a place on frigates (and most cruisers) due to slot availability .. most have a lowslot to spare (do you really need that extra speed mod?  ) but can't use arrays due to no spare CPU.
 Originally by: darius mclever
not supported.
you already got those Faction warfare implants. also ECCM and backup arrays.
The implants are not really viable anywhere except Empire in non-laggy battles.
They take all implant slots and cost a small fortune for what is a mediocre benefit .. awesome for frigs/dessies that lack module options but on larger ships you are essentially paying 3-500M for an extra midslot = not viable.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Problem is that a skill such as that would just make the gap between big - small even wider and act as an overall nerf to ECM.
What CCP should do is:
Cut 50% of the CPU cost on backup arrays.
Change bonus to 5-7 points OR +40-48% whichever yields higher.
Midslot ECCM will never have a place on frigates (and most cruisers) due to slot availability .. most have a lowslot to spare (do you really need that extra speed mod? ) but can't use arrays due to no spare CPU.
Originally by: darius mclever
not supported.
you already got those Faction warfare implants. also ECCM and backup arrays.
The implants are not really viable anywhere except Empire in non-laggy battles.
They take all implant slots and cost a small fortune for what is a mediocre benefit .. awesome for frigs/dessies that lack module options but on larger ships you are essentially paying 3-500M for an extra midslot = not viable.
that just means you need to get your a** up and run some more FW missions :p
i might need some for my apoc ;)
and i think those implants are especially useful on larger ships ... having an apoc fitted for long range (lets say 2 HS/2 TE/MP/scorch). wait until the falcon uncloaks and bam ;)
even if he tries to jam you the implant set and maybe 1 ECCM will ruin their day :)
it is all about being prepared isnt it?:)
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Orion Zero
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:38:00 -
[7]
.
Another good option would be to simply increase the effect of ECCM and Backup Array modules by about 50% from what they currently do - that way, Jamming is not nerfed, and a pilot who is prepared for it can effectively resist it as they should be able to.
I also like the idea of adding a set number of sensor points, or a percentage (whichever adds more) so that smaller ships with very low sensor strengths get a benefit also.
Also agreed that it's all about being prepared, it's just that as it stands, being prepared for jamming involves far too many slots being used up just for that.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Orion Zero
.
Another good option would be to simply increase the effect of ECCM and Backup Array modules by about 50% from what they currently do - that way, Jamming is not nerfed, and a pilot who is prepared for it can effectively resist it as they should be able to.
I also like the idea of adding a set number of sensor points, or a percentage (whichever adds more) so that smaller ships with very low sensor strengths get a benefit also.
Also agreed that it's all about being prepared, it's just that as it stands, being prepared for jamming involves far too many slots being used up just for that.
It is not your whole gang that needs to be prepared. you need 1 maybe 2 ships to fight the ECM boat.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: darius mclever
that just means you need to get your a** up and run some more FW missions :p
i might need some for my apoc ;)
even if he tries to jam you the implant set and maybe 1 ECCM will ruin their day :)
it is all about being prepared isnt it?:)
Still have a few million LP left from the "FW Mission Golden Age" and have two clones with Grails .. not used anywhere but in Empire though (Slicer+Grails+Array = Griffin Popcorn )
Point is, once in 0.0 where a bubbles means a guaranteed podding the cost is far too high.
The high-grade gives you the exact same bonus that you get from a T2 ECCM .. is an extra midslot really worth half a billion?
I really, really want a fitting option for the small stuff though. Lack of spare slots and CPU means any amount of ECM ruins the most fun fights Eve has to offer (Cruiser down, my opinion) ..
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:47:00 -
[10]
believe it or not ... I never get podded in 0.0. only in lowsec. 
best thing i ever had was:
slowboating 5-6k out of the bubble in the pod. then making 10-15jumps through 0.0, of course the exit system was camped ... so i safespotted, logged for the night and slipped out before DT. *phew*
as about the mid slots ... sure. especially on shield tankers and geddons (3 mids?!?!)
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Gwenivar
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Meeko Atari
It's not even subtle...
At least try, just a little
Never said i was trying to be subtle 
But I will pose this question... In normal circumstances do most people even consider running any other electronic warfare other then Jamming? Seeing as I think ECM is overpowered, it would be better to bring it down nearer to the others. Being prepared for ECM using ECCM just requires to many darn slots. Increasing the effectiveness of ECCM modules would also be a viable solution... I wouldn't suggest both a new skill and this however.
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Chris Chambers
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Posted - 2010.04.08 20:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Meeko Atari
It's not even subtle...
At least try, just a little
Never said i was trying to be subtle
But I will pose this question... In normal circumstances do most people even consider running any other electronic warfare other then Jamming? Seeing as I think ECM is overpowered, it would be better to bring it down nearer to the others. Being prepared for ECM using ECCM just requires to many darn slots. Increasing the effectiveness of ECCM modules would also be a viable solution... I wouldn't suggest both a new skill and this however. |
thoth rothschild
Strategic Solutions Ltd.
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2010.04.08 21:16:00 -
[13]
Sorry but i wonŠt support this.
With an Eos this EWar thingy is already getting an edge
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Torothanax
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Posted - 2010.04.09 08:39:00 -
[14]
Long long ago, probably before you even heard of eve, everyone fit ecm to thier empty midslots and ships had substancially less hp. This made fights were very luck based. Whoever got a jam first, won. So they nerfed ecm strength and boosted ecm ship bonuses. This made ecm only useful on ships with ECM bonuses.
If CCP added a skill to increase ship sensor strength it would make this skill another MUST HAVE. End result would be more training time to be effective in combat.
It would also require boosting ecm strength, to keep ecm viable. Also if the skill bonus was a percentage, it would boost ships with higher base sensor strenght much more then those with very low base sensor strengths. It would either make t1 frigates and cruisers even easier to jam, or battleships and t2 cruiser and up WAY harder to jam then they are now. It would just shift the range of effectiveness.
Just buy some implants or or fit a sensor strenght boosting module. Or make friends with someone who can use ecm.
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