Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 04:50:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Yaay on 09/04/2010 04:51:18 Bombers are really starting to get out of control. Everyone knows how great a tactic they are, but also what a huge pain in the ass they've become. My only real complaint is that they are removing the ability to fight on grid for extended periods of time, which can be highly frustrating for both sides that just want to have the good fight. So with that in mind, here's 3 things I think can change that won't really hurt bombers effect, but will free up fights.
1) Extend the bomb launch time from ~ 2 minutes with good skills to closer to 7-10 minutes.
2) Increase the flight time of bombs from 3.5 seconds back to the original 5 seconds. The reduction in time has made it way to easy to use 20+ bombers at a time simply because lag creates enough separation where the bombs don't destroy each other. 5 seconds reduces that problem and makes launching more than 8 bombs more reasonable as was originally intended.
3) Decrease bomber agility by 10% base. That means their 5.8 second warp time with max skills will go to about 6.5 seconds. If you add 1 Inertial stab 2, it should take warp time down from an original 4.5 seconds to about 4.95 seconds. 2 inertial stabs originally 3.9 seconds up to 4.3 seconds.
The agility change is only because of the change in the cloaking ability of bombers where it's impossible to see them coming.
I personally am not a fan of completely nerfing bombers, and even this is probably a bit much. But it's getting to the point where every fight that bombers are around, the 10-20 bombers are creating far more havoc than the other 200 in fleets. To me, that just isn't kosher fun for everyone.
I would be fine with bombers as they stand if instead CCP created more warp options, especially with fleet warps, or changed probing back to it's originally 30 second time. As it stands now, by the time everyone has loaded grid, they're already probed and bombers likely already in warp before there's even a chance to spread out. And warping at spread ranges still offers bomber food and shouldn't be necessary. Why is it i can have a fleet spread in a 60km bubble on 1 grid, and fleet warp pulls them all to 5km sphere when they land. Fleet warp should retain separation. Until that can happen, bombers need to be slightly more limited.
As for the north, both sides have benefited heavily from bombers. And dodging them has it's elements of fun. But **** sake when you cant even load grid before getting bombed, something's wrong. And neither side should have to deal with that.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 09:54:00 -
[2]
and all that because ROL vaporized your fleet?
i think your real grip is the grid loading and not so much the bombers. not supported. they are fine in the current way.
|
Heinrich Bleichrodt
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 10:23:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Yaay 2) Increase the flight time of bombs from 3.5 seconds back to the original 5 seconds. The reduction in time has made it way to easy to use 20+ bombers at a time simply because lag creates enough separation where the bombs don't destroy each other. 5 seconds reduces that problem and makes launching more than 8 bombs more reasonable as was originally intended.
Bombs fly for 10 seconds at 3km/s. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 11:23:00 -
[4]
Learn to form up inside the POS next time rather than whine that an anti-blob mechanism effectively countered your blob
Next up: how cloaked ships are overpowered because I can't see them
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 11:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Malcanis Learn to form up inside the POS next time rather than whine that an anti-blob mechanism effectively countered your blob
Next up: how cloaked ships are overpowered because I can't see them
forming up inside the pos is for wimps. :)
it is way more fun to read on CAOD about 13bombers getting 100kills ;)
so NC please ignore Malcanis. form up outside of the pos please!! :)
|
Vincent Gaines
Infinite Improbability Inc
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 12:25:00 -
[6]
I don't know if this has to do with the bridgebombing, If you're referring to loading grid or not- remember bombers making a run have to load grid as well.... for every time a fleet gets caught and bombed, there are many times when a fleet is aligned and able to warp out before a bomb can even be released.
the bridgebombing incident... live and learn I guess, but that's to blame on the FC, not the bombers.
I love my bomber, I kill a lot of ships in bomber squads, do not support any changes. |
Nekre
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 12:46:00 -
[7]
no freaking way !!!!
|
Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 13:01:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Yaay on 09/04/2010 13:04:45 I swear I was advocating bombs for what they do, just not the frequency or ease during fleet fights, but meh... Idiots are why things never get good changes.
Guy on bomb flight times, you're right, was looking at ecm bombs. However, It still only takes 5 seconds of separation for bombs to be out of range of each other. Obviously that isn't enough when you're seeing 20+ bombers landing regularly during fleet fights at the same time and all dropping bombs.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Anna Lifera
Gallente Imperial Legion of Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 13:19:00 -
[9]
not supported. a solo bomber already has a lot of limitations on what it can kill so it doesn't need any more nerfs. just because a smaller fleet beat your much bigger fleet, u wanna cry about it simply because u rely on riskless blobbing, swearing by the rule that more numbers = 100% winning? collect your insurance and move on--it's not like bombers can take down your pos, unlike a fleet of 200 other combat ships... --- pirating has more consequences than any other life style in eve which is pretty bull**** since its the one with the most risk and the least reward - eliminator2 |
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 13:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 09/04/2010 13:04:45 I swear I was advocating bombs for what they do, just not the frequency or ease during fleet fights, but meh... Idiots are why things never get good changes.
Guy on bomb flight times, you're right, was looking at ecm bombs. However, It still only takes 5 seconds of separation for bombs to be out of range of each other. Obviously that isn't enough when you're seeing 20+ bombers landing regularly during fleet fights at the same time and all dropping bombs.
Calling people idiots will definitely help your case. It helped the other morsus mihi guy aswell. but keep it coming.
|
|
Vincent Gaines
Infinite Improbability Inc
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 14:10:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 09/04/2010 14:11:32
Originally by: darius mclever
Calling people idiots will definitely help your case. It helped the other morsus mihi guy aswell. but keep it coming.
This isn't CAOD, leave politics out of this. And post with your main ;).
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 14:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vincent Gaines Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 09/04/2010 14:11:32
Originally by: darius mclever
Calling people idiots will definitely help your case. It helped the other morsus mihi guy aswell. but keep it coming.
This isn't CAOD, leave politics out of this. And post with your main ;).
It wasnt meant to be a political statement. i just noticed that MM folks tend to call people idiots who dont support their ideas.
|
Vincent Gaines
Infinite Improbability Inc
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 14:45:00 -
[13]
Yaay, to address your points:
1) increasing reload time: countered by running 2 waves of bombers.
2) flight time increase, no problem because you can just split your warp to... in fact any time over 8 bombers you should be doing this anyway...
3) dropping agility... solo or very small groups I do my runs aligned. In defensive positions I have bookmarks set up just for that. In fleet positions where you usually align... the difference of 1-1.5 seconds means nothing.
I'm just saying, bombers are fine.. the problem is fleet FCing. Spread your fleets, involve more small ships like intys to nab the bombers. make sure fleets align.
When you talk about a fleet landing on bombs (I know this to have happened recently) it's lag + bad luck. changing a ship class based upon an issue not related to balancing is just a bad idea. instead the lag should be fixed.
|
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 14:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Vincent Gaines Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 09/04/2010 14:11:32
Originally by: darius mclever
Calling people idiots will definitely help your case. It helped the other morsus mihi guy aswell. but keep it coming.
This isn't CAOD, leave politics out of this. And post with your main ;).
It wasnt meant to be a political statement. i just noticed that MM folks tend to call people idiots who dont support their ideas.
I just noticed that MM folks tend to call people idiots who dont support their ideas.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
|
NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 15:49:00 -
[15]
Edited by: NightmareX on 09/04/2010 15:57:05 A 15 man Stealth Bomber fleet can be a very effective way to spank those who plans on blobbing. A Stealth Bomber can be called a Mini Titan with AOE DD (yes we can call them for that) that are very easy to kill because they are paper thin.
And because Stealth Bombers are very easy to kill if you have smaller ships or fast ships that can MWD out of the Bomb range before they go off and tackle or kill them before they warp off, then yeah, problem solved.
Yes Stealth Bombers are totally fine. I use a Hound my self and they are perfect as they are now.
So no, i don't support this.
|
Everseeker
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 16:04:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Everseeker on 09/04/2010 16:07:43
Originally by: Yaay 2) Increase the flight time of bombs from 3.5 seconds back to the original 5 seconds. The reduction in time has made it way to easy to use 20+ bombers at a time simply because lag creates enough separation where the bombs don't destroy each other. 5 seconds reduces that problem and makes launching more than 8 bombs more reasonable as was originally intended.
Couple things: 1. May want to check the Flight time on bombs... 3.5 seconds, to go 30 KM? That's REALLY Zoom-fast! 2. "...yada yada so bombs don't destroy each other..." Um If you are running a tight Bomber Squad with everyone running the same bomb type, there's no problem. (Bombs of a type do minimal damage to each other)
Now, integrating speciality bombs like Lock Breakers pose an issue, but that's something the SB Squad's FC works out...
Fire to blank your screens between SB decloak and expected lock time... Of course, the one to toss it DOES have to shoot n scoot!
All is made MUCH easier if you're sitting there wondering when you'll be able to move on grid :)
--
EverSeeker |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 16:25:00 -
[17]
It's either very obvious that you know nothing about bombers... or you think you know. Or your whining your ass off because you got your butt wuuped by them.
All the more reason to not support this epic failness of an idea.
Stealth Bombers take skill and coordination.... its just a stick with a nuke strapped to it.
If you can't take the heat.... get out of the blast radius. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Emo TJ
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 18:51:00 -
[18]
I agree completely. If we have 100 friends in our gang than you do in your blob you should not be allowed to win.
Bombers use lots of unfair tactics that just can't be countered.
I vote to remove bombers from game and bring back our AoE doomsday titans. I am tired of us losing a whole fleet trying to do an anomaly because people want to be jerks.
Mother F-in supported!
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 18:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Emo TJ I agree completely. If we have 100 friends in our gang than you do in your blob you should not be allowed to win.
Bombers use lots of unfair tactics that just can't be countered.
I vote to remove bombers from game and bring back our AoE doomsday titans. I am tired of us losing a whole fleet trying to do an anomaly because people want to be jerks.
Mother F-in supported!
people like you are the reasons why bombers should stay as they are. so you learn lessons with pain. there are plenty tactical elements out there to make bombers less effective. some day you will learn about it ...
|
KillMurderDeath
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 19:02:00 -
[20]
u mad?
|
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 19:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: KillMurderDeath u mad?
me? naw just sold 5 more bombers. ;)
|
Nomispanco
D00M. RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 19:24:00 -
[22]
LOL !!!
NC did that a lots of time when we were sometimes on ur pos and now u whine bout coz u got pwned by bombs...
Let me Laugh plz epic joke ♥
|
Jerid Verges
Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand
|
Posted - 2010.04.09 20:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: Emo TJ I agree completely. If we have 100 friends in our gang than you do in your blob you should not be allowed to win.
Bombers use lots of unfair tactics that just can't be countered.
I vote to remove bombers from game and bring back our AoE doomsday titans. I am tired of us losing a whole fleet trying to do an anomaly because people want to be jerks.
Mother F-in supported!
people like you are the reasons why bombers should stay as they are. so you learn lessons with pain. there are plenty tactical elements out there to make bombers less effective. some day you will learn about it ...
You've been trolled.
|
Yaay
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
|
Posted - 2010.04.10 06:02:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nomispanco LOL !!!
NC did that a lots of time when we were sometimes on ur pos and now u whine bout coz u got pwned by bombs...
Let me Laugh plz epic joke
I call a spade a spade. Just because something is overpowered doesn't mean my e-pride is gonna take over and prevent me or anyone else from using that tool.
Bombers are fragile, they are not easy to kill if used right. There's a reason they were heavily pre-nerfed once bombs were implemented. Now that everyone is finally understanding how to use them, it's almost to the point of absurdity.
Not one of the changes I offered is going to prevent bombers from having epic moments. What it will do is limit how many chances they'll get in a 30 minute window. I don't get how a 7 minute rate of fire is really going to criple bombers... it just give more time to actually fight on grid rather than dodge **** constantly.
That said, this thread is dead, so meh. Word on the street is dev's are planning to nerf them anyways, so, I guess victory without the CSM!
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Emo TJ
|
Posted - 2010.04.10 06:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Yaay
Originally by: Nomispanco LOL !!!
NC did that a lots of time when we were sometimes on ur pos and now u whine bout coz u got pwned by bombs...
Let me Laugh plz epic joke
I call a spade a spade. Just because something is overpowered doesn't mean my e-pride is gonna take over and prevent me or anyone else from using that tool.
Bombers are fragile, they are not easy to kill if used right. There's a reason they were heavily pre-nerfed once bombs were implemented. Now that everyone is finally understanding how to use them, it's almost to the point of absurdity.
Not one of the changes I offered is going to prevent bombers from having epic moments. What it will do is limit how many chances they'll get in a 30 minute window. I don't get how a 7 minute rate of fire is really going to criple bombers... it just give more time to actually fight on grid rather than dodge **** constantly.
That said, this thread is dead, so meh. Word on the street is dev's are planning to nerf them anyways, so, I guess victory without the CSM!
You tell them Yaay! :high five:
I told you cheaters you would be dealt with. You can't stop us from being friends with your abuse of game mechanics.
|
NightmareX
Dark-Rising IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.04.10 11:32:00 -
[26]
Nothing is said that Bombers will be nerfed, so just keep dreaming about getting Bombers nerfed. Because as far as i know, they wont get nerfed.
And for those who thinks it's easy to use Bombers, then you basicly have no clue about Bombers and how they are used.
Learn to be good in using them and you can have some good runs in Stealth Bombers.
And also, how often do you see that 15-20 bombers have killed 100+ ships?. It's not often that happens. Most of the times it ends up by some few kills here and there
|
Marlona Sky
D00M. RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2010.04.10 11:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Yaay It's not fair!!!
Why did you bring 150+ guys to fight the 15 bombers?
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.10 12:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Yaay It's not fair!!!
Why did you bring 150+ guys to fight the 15 bombers?
150 kills for 15bombers sounds nice. ;)
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
|
Posted - 2010.04.10 15:24:00 -
[29]
Wouldn't it make more sense to limit the amount of bombs that can go off in proximity of each other by tweaking the resistance/signature of the bombs?
Remove the current easy mode PvP that dropping a crap-ton at a time represents while benefiting the groups that take the time to drill and train together (staggered release, multiple vectors etc.)
|
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre
|
Posted - 2010.04.10 17:20:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/04/2010 17:22:24 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 10/04/2010 17:21:11
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Wouldn't it make more sense to limit the amount of bombs that can go off in proximity of each other by tweaking the resistance/signature of the bombs?
Remove the current easy mode PvP that dropping a crap-ton at a time represents while benefiting the groups that take the time to drill and train together (staggered release, multiple vectors etc.)
For starters you people are assuming that the bombs live long enough to be dropped in mass numbers.
I've been told repeatedly that anything beyond 5 bombs (of like type) is as far as it will take it before the resistances fail to resist damage from being taken as the bomb is in flight.
Anything beyond that... causes them to blow each other up.
Then you got the problem of using mixed bombs which kill each other in the ensuing shock-waves.
Then you got the fact there's a 15 to 30km shockwave radius. (varies depending on resistances of course)
And lastly... the Stealth Bomber itself resists its own racial type but not others... so you have to be careful not to kill yourself due to some one Else's bomb being tossed.
Take the above into account.. it's not as "easy" as you yahoos make it out to be.
Like I've said already... if you can't take the heat... get the #### out of the blast radius.
Man up.
It's just a stick with a nuke.
Snap that twig... problem solved. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |