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Rhinanna Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2010.04.12 13:19:00 - [31] All this would do is give the older players more ISK and the younger players less. Why you ask.... Well as stated you could make very very nice market prices by trading across the gap. One JF loaded with stuff from one side and sells. Much less risk and far easier than trying to move an industrial. Within a few weeks every low-sec entrace to the pocket would have poses for JFs to land on in them making them virtually impenetrable to anything short of a dread fleet realistically. Good idea in principle but far to favoured towards the older logistics pilots who in most cases aren't the ones who need more isk. Market trading is already the most profitable occuation in EVE leaving L4 missions and nullsec plexing way behind. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag)
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.04.12 13:41:00 - [32] I completely disagree with breaking up high sec. Civilization expands, not contracts. Better yet make it so that the longer you NAP in 0.0, the higher the sec status of your border systems becomes. Now that would be a challenge. Once a big alliance got the balls to actually start a war, they would have to figure out how best to get all their Caps and SCaps from one low/null sec region to the next past the high sec border around their territory. Else: Make the center regions of held sov slowly raise sec status. The longer a region is held the higher it's sec status. Voila, high sec islands. Mr Epeen
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.04.12 15:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Mr Epeen I completely disagree with breaking up high sec. Civilization expands, not contracts. Better yet make it so that the longer you NAP in 0.0, the higher the sec status of your border systems becomes. Now that would be a challenge. Once a big alliance got the balls to actually start a war, they would have to figure out how best to get all their Caps and SCaps from one low/null sec region to the next past the high sec border around their territory. Else: Make the center regions of held sov slowly raise sec status. The longer a region is held the higher it's sec status. Voila, high sec islands. Mr Epeen First of all, your RL example is poor. I know many areas of the "civilized" world that would be considered low sec. Take my hometown of Atlanta, GA for example. You try strolling through College Park at 2 am and see if the cops come around to save your dumb nutz when the boyz decide they like your shoes and wallet. The part about 0.0 and NAPs and changing security status is just the kind of crap idea that the Devs would get after reading this post... are you a dev?
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.04.12 15:44:00 - [34] Meh. The Gallente are big on free trade. At a minimum they would try to provide safe trading corridors between the Empires. Having a low-sec buffer between the Minmatar and Amarr would seem to make sense though, except that the Amarr are the bigger empire and would actively want to maintain aggressive borders with the Minmatar. The Caldari are traders also. Meh, it's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would fly either in terms of happy carebears or in RPG terms. Besides, you can still circumvent most of the trade restrictions with Player Hauling Corps that use jump freighters and courier contracts. Plus jump clones would minimize the effects. Now if you really wanted to get interesting, give players the ability to buy security/CONCORD status and protection. If enough people get together to pay CONCORD's upkeep and protection costs, you could have some interesting dynamics. A corp could buy slow responding, it's ok to escape/tank, CONCORD protection in a .2 system whereas the ewil pywates would have more targets but would have to work smarter to get them. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Stratio Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.12 16:59:00 - [35] Originally by: Mr Kidd I know, why not have the noobs just spawn in a specific nullsec system station and all null sec pilots can get a notification that a new victim has arrived. He he, but seriously I supported to low-sec border idea when I was a noob myself. It just appeals to me. Originally by: Super Whopper When you cross the border to another country you have to travel through lawless, pirate infested and extremely hostile territory, amirite? For most of human history yes, it was like that. Travelling from a large town to another was dangerous. Originally by: Liorah People will tend to congregate and create a market/trading hub [...] If you put lowsec/nullsec between hisec empires, the majority of people will just stay in their little safe zone. [...] Oh, maybe you'd have slightly larger markets in the other three empires, but the real trading would still be in Jita, or in whatever primary market hub was chosen. You make a good point and actually there is another danger: Everyone might just move to the Caldari empire and the rest of EVE hi-sec would be dead. _____________________ Poreuomai's Spokesman For Tribe and Honour!
Dodgy Past Amarr Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.04.12 17:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Liorah If you put lowsec/nullsec between hisec empires, the majority of people will just stay in their little safe zone. Those that don't, and who explore out once or twice will get smacked and never do it again. The now smaller hisec areas would become more populated, and you'd still have lowsec pirates whining about lack of targets. Oh, maybe you'd have slightly larger markets in the other three empires, but the real trading would still be in Jita, or in whatever primary market hub was chosen. If you want more people in lowsec so you can yarr, then change the "safety" curve from 0.5 to 0.4 to something other than a dip to negative infinity. Don't try to force carebears into lowsec, cause they won't go. They're carebears, not stupid (necessarily). When I was less than 6 months into the game I was running supplies into wormholes and the loot out. You regularly read of people starting out with the game and having fun out of low sec and even in null. I'd say this idea would encourage more to figure out low sec since it would improve the profits that could be made out of venturing through. Plus it would create greater variation in game play due to separated markets. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
mech res	Posted - 2010.04.12 17:31:00 - [37] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne +1 support for low sec separating empire. It's been proposed before, and usually the carebears show up en-mass and complain until the thread chokes to death under the mighty weight of the carebear stare.
Swiftgaze Elysium Trading Company Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 17:34:00 - [38] Edited by: Swiftgaze on 12/04/2010 17:34:11 Originally by: Stratio Originally by: Liorah People will tend to congregate and create a market/trading hub [...] If you put lowsec/nullsec between hisec empires, the majority of people will just stay in their little safe zone. [...] Oh, maybe you'd have slightly larger markets in the other three empires, but the real trading would still be in Jita, or in whatever primary market hub was chosen. You make a good point and actually there is another danger: Everyone might just move to the Caldari empire and the rest of EVE hi-sec would be dead. Not if certain resources couldn't be found in Caldari space.
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.04.12 18:34:00 - [39] Originally by: Swiftgaze Edited by: Swiftgaze on 12/04/2010 17:34:11 Originally by: Stratio Originally by: Liorah People will tend to congregate and create a market/trading hub [...] If you put lowsec/nullsec between hisec empires, the majority of people will just stay in their little safe zone. [...] Oh, maybe you'd have slightly larger markets in the other three empires, but the real trading would still be in Jita, or in whatever primary market hub was chosen. You make a good point and actually there is another danger: Everyone might just move to the Caldari empire and the rest of EVE hi-sec would be dead. Not if certain resources couldn't be found in Caldari space. But there's a lot of resources that can't be found... oh I see what you did there!
Root Canal	Posted - 2010.04.12 19:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Rpeg I'm a Hi-sec player and I say we need LESS hi-sec space. We wouldn't care if low sec and null sec were removed from the game. We're only here for what we can do in hi sec. Nor will we participate in an efforts to force us into low or null sec. Yes, we've played in low and null sec. Didn't like either. Too much insanity and unpredictability. Low sec is a playground for griefers. No game, not even Eve, benefits in any way from griefing. Griefing caters to ppl who are sick in RL. It lets them wreak the destruction they are too cowardly to inflict in RL. Griefers are very sick puppies.
Root Canal	Posted - 2010.04.12 19:45:00 - [41] Originally by: Jathlor ...Would definitely decentralize Jita... Decentralizing Jita is not a rational goal to seek. The formation and vitality of a market hub is a natural phenomenon. Weaken it and you weaken the economy. There could be mechanisms that would reduce the traffic in Jita without weakening it as a market hub. Skill-based subspace transport of goods to and from Jita would reduce physical traffic. Or buying and selling in a market hub regardless of where the goods are, with subspace delivery. All of you who seek to see Jita broken up fail to understand how markets work.
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 19:51:00 - [42] Edited by: AdmiralJohn on 12/04/2010 19:53:03 Originally by: Root Canal We wouldn't care if low sec and null sec were removed from the game. We're only here for what we can do in hi sec. Nor will we participate in an efforts to force us into low or null sec. Yes, we've played in low and null sec. Didn't like either. Too much insanity and unpredictability. Low sec is a playground for griefers. No game, not even Eve, benefits in any way from griefing. Griefing caters to ppl who are sick in RL. It lets them wreak the destruction they are too cowardly to inflict in RL. Griefers are very sick puppies. Who are "we"? Speak for yourself. To all the carebears shouting "OH NOEZ TEH GRIEFERZ!", you completely miss the point. "We" know that you're all too afraid to enter low-sec, which means that you'll stay in your comfy high sec region. This will split up the current homogeneity of high-sec. Really, besides ores and stargate graphics, what is it that makes any patch of high-sec unique? If you split it up, there would be conflicts for resources, and not just the pew pew kind. Moving goods would become really profitable, and market PvP would liven up. It would add more variety in gameplay styles, and actually maybe make high-sec roleplaying, oh I don't know, more immersive? Really, stop whining about more low or null sec, get over it. EDIT: Explain to me how this would be bad for the economy. I'd really like to hear your superior wisdom on this.
Mankhouri	Posted - 2010.04.12 20:06:00 - [43] What about a new free trade zone stuck in the middle of null sec. Make it outside of Empire but subject to the same level of protection (ie effectively high sec). Lower taxes or provide other real benefits to trade there (tempting people away from Jita). Have loads of W/H routes leading there from high sec (or, even better, from W/H space - perhaps a new class of W/H that always leads to this region - which is what from a storyline perspective gave rise to people using it in the first place). This would make is an area of space that people would need to keep track of as it effectively moves round Empire while forcing people through W/H space or null sec to get there. Would be great fun and would give a boost to scanning/transport careers finding the current routes through to it.
Volir Dot.	Posted - 2010.04.12 20:18:00 - [44] This is a good, fun idea, but there is a severe limitation. It would take a lot of time for CCP to build the new regions that would go into this. They only recently figured out how to do this with Black Rise. Maybe this would be a good addition if/when CCP buffs lowsec. Currently, lowsec is a slum with very high risk and very low rewards. Putting all this effort in just nerf Jita isn't really worthwhile - it would have to be apart of something larger.
Snake O'Donell Gallente Situation Grey	Posted - 2010.04.12 20:30:00 - [45] Originally by: Rhinanna All this would do is give the older players more ISK and the younger players less. Why you ask.... Well as stated you could make very very nice market prices by trading across the gap. One JF loaded with stuff from one side and sells. Much less risk and far easier than trying to move an industrial. Within a few weeks every low-sec entrace to the pocket would have poses for JFs to land on in them making them virtually impenetrable to anything short of a dread fleet realistically. Good idea in principle but far to favoured towards the older logistics pilots who in most cases aren't the ones who need more isk. Market trading is already the most profitable occuation in EVE leaving L4 missions and nullsec plexing way behind. 2 mother...err...SUPERcarriers can gank a jf in like 30 seconds and are immune to ewar. I'm just sayin... Also in low-sec anything with a covert ops cloak is basically invulnerable. Viators aren't that hard to get into, I had one on an alt in like 2 months... I believe separating the opposing factions by a "DMZ" of low-sec would be a great way to promote PVP and trade in this game that is based around, well PVP and trade. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Tobias Xiaosen Gallente TX Holdings Company	Posted - 2010.04.12 21:12:00 - [46] I fully support this idea! Making low-sec areas separate the different empires would do nothing but improve the vitality of Eve. It would decentralize the empire markets, allowing for trade opportunities that were previously unheard of. Big help for the economy. Not to mention it would lessen the load on Jita, thus making lagggggggg a smaller problem. It also makes sense RP wise. Do you people forget that the empires are, you know, AT WAR? (hard to believe isn't it? ) With FW still going on, it really does not make sense that simple civilians can pass directly from one empire to another without getting caught in the cross-fire. (Seriously, this really takes from the immersion of Eve) Another point is the common complaint that Eve doesn't seem as MASSIVE anymore. If you split up high-sec, then suddenly the feeling that Eve is BIG returns! However, in regards to cyno/jump bridging through these areas for null sec people, is that really a bad thing? It would make the logistics of running large scale wars easier wouldn't it? When it comes to choke points though, I feel there should be very few, if any of these. And when it comes to the JF + POSes issue, sure it'll be much easier to pull off...but simply because of this (and the profits involved), there will be a major incentive for people to compete over the border systems for those POSes. Of course, as an afterthought, these lowsec areas would be great for pirates of course. So overall I think splitting up the empires would be a massive improvement! ~ Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan Keyboards are destructible. Much more so when used as a projectile.
Syn Callibri Minmatar Swag Co. Sandbox Bullies	Posted - 2010.04.12 21:18:00 - [47] It stands to reason that between two "empires" or power bases there would be a sort of "No Man's Land" or a "DMZ" so to speak...DOOOOOO EEEEEEET! +1 to this idea. "I have just as much authority as the empress, just not as many people that believe it."
Tobias Xiaosen Gallente TX Holdings Company	Posted - 2010.04.12 21:25:00 - [48] Originally by: Root Canal Originally by: Rpeg I'm a Hi-sec player and I say we need LESS hi-sec space. We wouldn't care if low sec and null sec were removed from the game. We're only here for what we can do in hi sec. Nor will we participate in an efforts to force us into low or null sec. Yes, we've played in low and null sec. Didn't like either. Too much insanity and unpredictability. Low sec is a playground for griefers. No game, not even Eve, benefits in any way from griefing. Griefing caters to ppl who are sick in RL. It lets them wreak the destruction they are too cowardly to inflict in RL. Griefers are very sick puppies. First, this Second, your broad idea that "griefing" and "griefers" is bad for Eve is, well, wrong, but first I need a clear idea by what exactly you mean by griefing. Do you mean pirates? Not to mention you making the correlation between RL and EVE is lol. Tell me, in a FPS game like TF2, if I play as a spy does that make me a untrustworthy assassin in RL? If I play a game like GTA does that mean I commit grand theft auto, kill pedestrians in the street and make the army mobilize to take me down? The idea that in game actions reflect on RL is pathetic. People game to do things that they CAN'T do in RL, or else they would actually DO IT IN RL. Eve lets you do tons of things that you can't do in RL. With internet spaceships. Regardless what anyone decides to do with said spaceships, as long as it isn't an exploit of some kind, it is perfectly fine according to CCP. Thus there is nothing wrong with it in EVE. EVE is CCPs. What they say goes. They are the moral compass of this game. ~ Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan Keyboards are destructible. Much more so when used as a projectile.
Root Canal	Posted - 2010.04.12 22:33:00 - [49] Originally by: AdmiralJohn Who are "we"? Speak for yourself Did you forget to take your vitamins this morning? "We" is my nine accounts and about five more in our corp. Originally by: AdmiralJohn To all the carebears shouting "OH NOEZ TEH GRIEFERZ!", you completely miss the point. "We" know that you're all too afraid to enter low-sec, which means that you'll stay in your comfy high sec region. No, you miss the point. It's not fear; it's a choice. We're here for the fun of the multitude of hi sec activities that keep us busy: trading, manufacturing, research, hi sec POSs. Really, we keep discovering new things we can do... the challenges in hi sec never end. We regard the ppl who disparage carebears as clueless. We regard the pew-pew people as those who mistake Eve for a 1980s video arcade game where the objective is to get one's three-letter initials onto the panel display as a high scorer. Eve is so much more than pew-pew. Originally by: AdmiralJohn Really, stop whining about more low or null sec, get over it. Really, you need to get over the existence of carebears and the rich panoply of hi sec activities that make low and null sec irrelevant. Originally by: AdmiralJohn EDIT: Explain to me how this would be bad for the economy. I'd really like to hear your superior wisdom on this. Class is over. Take a course somewhere else. Buy a few clues about how markets work. When you can answer the question, "Why is there only one eBay?" you will know.
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.12 22:37:00 - [50] I'm pretty sure I just got trolled really hard. I like it.
Tobias Xiaosen Gallente TX Holdings Company	Posted - 2010.04.12 22:48:00 - [51] Originally by: AdmiralJohn I'm pretty sure I just got trolled really hard. I like it. Confirming I too think that I've also been trolled by a root canal ~ Originally by: Cthulhu ftghan Keyboards are destructible. Much more so when used as a projectile.
Tibalt Avalon Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2010.04.13 00:24:00 - [52] Heres My Solution.... 4 High Security Space System - 1 For Each Race. Hardstyle Ambassador
Kyra Felann Gallente Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.13 00:27:00 - [53] Originally by: AdmiralJohn That, or make players HAVE to travel in low-sec to get between the four empires. It would decentralize the economy. I support this.
Dracnys Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.13 00:46:00 - [54] Originally by: Tibalt Avalon Heres My Solution.... 4 High Security Space System - 1 For Each Race. Have fun mining 12 hours for your new battleship. Without highsec the mineral prices would skyrocket, as there would be no more 5 account belt cleaning fleets any more. Big alliances would need their own mining fleets which would mine Veldspar, a lot of Veldspar. No more expansive ABC ore that can be sold in empire for three times as much ISK per hour. However I'd like to have highsec seperated by lowsec. Would certainly make the economy weaker, but also more interesting.
Leggo	Posted - 2010.04.13 01:03:00 - [55] While we are at it lets make moon mining available in all space via the same system currently being tested on SISI to really give the Dust guys something to fight over and more reasons to have wars. It is all about the killboard posts in the end isn't it?
motomysz Militek Industries Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.04.13 01:10:00 - [56] This has been discussed a couple of times in the past, and always boils down to the same thing. The massive restructuring of the map would potentially separate players from a lot of their assets, among other logistical disruptions, and people would cry themselves all the way to the 'cancel account' button. I will say, however, that I'm in favor of new lowsec regions being inserted between each race, regardless of what disruptions it would cause.
Tibalt Avalon Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2010.04.13 01:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Dracnys Originally by: Tibalt Avalon Heres My Solution.... 4 High Security Space System - 1 For Each Race. Have fun mining 12 hours for your new battleship. Without highsec the mineral prices would skyrocket, as there would be no more 5 account belt cleaning fleets any more. Big alliances would need their own mining fleets which would mine Veldspar, a lot of Veldspar. No more expansive ABC ore that can be sold in empire for three times as much ISK per hour. However I'd like to have highsec seperated by lowsec. Would certainly make the economy weaker, but also more interesting. 4 High Sec Systems With 40 Belts Only Filled With Veldspar? Hardstyle Ambassador
Cyrus Deacon	Posted - 2010.04.13 01:30:00 - [58] Edited by: Cyrus Deacon on 13/04/2010 01:32:10 I dont think its a good idea to split high sec. I think its a better idea to add more High sec. Not connected to the 4 factions. but add about 70 stars connected to jove space and OPEN jove space. Jump freighters should be nerfed if this happens. x2 jump fuel and 1/2 jump distance.
Hainnz	Posted - 2010.04.13 01:51:00 - [59] If they gave every ship a hyper-space/quasi-space/whatever-space drive to jump system to system and by-pass the gate choke points, then this would be a great idea. IMO, the game needs more of all types of space too, to spread out the population.
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.04.13 02:02:00 - [60] Originally by: AdmiralJohn EDIT: Explain to me how this would be bad for the economy. I'd really like to hear your superior wisdom on this. For example, say 20% of the accounts cease to subscribe. Thus, about 25% fewer employees to work on lag, nerf the competition, and make needed buffs to your ship. This seems like a considerable amount of programming. If CCP is going to do this much, why not just eliminate hisec? It would be a much purer but much, much smaller and less profitable game. It is personal preference as to whether you would consider that good or bad and how far down that path you would like to go. Obviously, the choice is clear for CCP shareholders.

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