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Minmatar Assassin
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:13:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Minmatar Assassin on 13/04/2010 10:15:54
o/
Everyone who do PVP know when you get a scramber on your MWD-tank concept ship, - u're almost dead. As i have seen all PVP tactics is all about that somebody wants to scrambler you - you try to avoid it. Anoying cat-mouse game.
Warp scambers ir really overpowered right now, where is no other module in game who takes off your tanking strategy 100%.
So need to reduce this module stats: activation range - 5km or so on. Increase gallente recons scamblers bonuses distance, as they are dedicated for this purpose.
Or create new modules for low slots as anti scrambler.
Thanks for reading,
Minmatar Assassin.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:21:00 -
[2]
keep range?
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Lord Dralos
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:25:00 -
[3]
i have to agree with you scrams are over powered most powerfull scram is a +3 and takes up one slot to combat that you need to equip 3 x +1 stabs which as im a miner and industrialist is impossible to do hulks low slots 2 orcas low slots 2 lol seeing the picture here there does need to be a way to stop scrams imo stabs just dont do it for me and many others in same situation.
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Minmatar Assassin
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:28:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: darius mclever
keep range?
I aggree, need to keep a range. But scrambler works with heat 12km. If we had no nano nerf pach long ago that would be possible to keep a range.
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Torothanax
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:47:00 -
[5]
Before scrams shut off MWDs, MWDs were required modules for pvp. Now you can actually pvp with an AB.
Before the nano nerf, the Vagabond was the "I don't lose" ship. Nano was a required fit for any roaming fleet.
Before Nos was nerfed, it was a required module for pvp. No one used neuts.
Before ECM was nerfed, WAY back when, it was quite popular to fit one in any extra mid slot. If you got a jam off, which frequently happened, you won. Now ECM is only useful on ships that have a bonus for it.
These were all changes that were good for the game. When I started Eve, everyone who pvp'ed flew gallente. The ONLY fit was nos, web (2 if you could fit it), warp disruptor, blasters, ecm if you could fit it, hobgoblins or hammer heads, and whatever tank worked around everything else. The only tactic was to aproach your target, activate everything, and see who won.
Quit trying to go backward.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.13 10:49:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Minmatar Assassin
I aggree, need to keep a range. But scrambler works with heat 12km. If we had no nano nerf pach long ago that would be possible to keep a range.
If you are already in web-range (13km w. heat) then the scrambler (12km is uber-pimp heated scrambler by the way) is the least of your problems.
QR reduced speeds across the board so what was nano is still nano, relatively speaking .. just no longer viable in ships not meant for it as tracking can now keep up with most abominations.
Kiting range has been pushed out by a few km which has been more than made up for by TE's adding falloff as well as optimal now.
Extending the orbit is all you need to do, if you find that loads of ships are faster than you then you are using the wrong fit/ship and no amount of scrambler range reduction will save you.
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lookatzebirdie
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Posted - 2010.04.13 11:03:00 -
[7]
Agree with above. It's fairly balanced TBH. Kiters should be catchable with AB scram but it should be very difficult and require good piloting. At the moment it seems to mostly come down to pilot skill/error to determine if a kiter will be snagged by scram... this is how it should be.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.13 12:02:00 -
[8]
Scramblers are generally speaking fine as is. Very powerful, absolutely, but slightly lower range then webs and they enable interesting fits which use just one mid for tackle.
Originally by: Minmatar Assassin
I aggree, need to keep a range. But scrambler works with heat 12km.
Wat? Yeah, if we talk about faction scramblers. Standard T2 has 10.8km range overheated afaik.
Anyway, if you get caught by a scrambler in a nanoship then you failed at something, or you're being tackled by a inty which you need to neut off you.
It helps if you don't engage Ruptures at 5km with a nano-rapier.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.13 12:32:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Scramblers are generally speaking fine as is. Very powerful, absolutely, but slightly lower range then webs and they enable interesting fits which use just one mid for tackle.
the 1 mid thing made many shield tanking ships rock in pvp now. (cyclone e.g.)
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Minmatar Assassin
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2010.04.13 14:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Scramblers are generally speaking fine as is. Very powerful, absolutely, but slightly lower range then webs and they enable interesting fits which use just one mid for tackle.
Warp disruptor - 24 km. - lets to keep target in grid.
Web - 10 km. - lets to slow down ship by 60%.
Warp scamblers - 9 km.- slow downs ships at 90% - 100% - taking off main propultion module.
I aggree Branko scrablers really fine. Also i didn't have read here any argue why this module activation distance would not be reduced to 5km. Reducing scramblers range would be fine balance of tackling strategy.
5 km. - 'It was my FAILURE losing ship by this way'
9 km. - 10.8 km. ussually ends being scrambled.
Now grab a vagabond and try on SISI tackle various ships by avoiding being scramled.
GOOD LUCK.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.13 14:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Minmatar Assassin
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Scramblers are generally speaking fine as is. Very powerful, absolutely, but slightly lower range then webs and they enable interesting fits which use just one mid for tackle.
Warp disruptor - 24 km. - lets to keep target in grid.
Web - 10 km. - lets to slow down ship by 60%.
Warp scamblers - 9 km.- slow downs ships at 90% - 100% - taking off main propultion module.
I aggree Branko scrablers really fine. Also i didn't have read here any argue why this module activation distance would not be reduced to 5km. Reducing scramblers range would be fine balance of tackling strategy.
5 km. - 'It was my FAILURE losing ship by this way'
9 km. - 10.8 km. ussually ends being scrambled.
Now grab a vagabond and try on SISI tackle various ships by avoiding being scramled.
GOOD LUCK.
so 13k range advantage+speed advantage (over most ships) are not enough for you? really?
ever tried to use the keep at range button?
(yes i dont fly vagas, so i cant really comment on them, but i find it rather strange that a ship with it's good agility/speed/range has a problem with that.)
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Minmatar Assassin
Utopian Research I.E.L.
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2010.04.13 15:09:00 -
[12]
'Keep at range' option works only with ships who do not try to approach your ship.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.13 15:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Minmatar Assassin
Now grab a vagabond and try on SISI tackle various ships by avoiding being scramled.
GOOD LUCK.
Luck does not factor in at all. Especially not for a Vagabond.
You have a 15km buffer (24km - 9km) between your point and his. You can chose to leave at any time, enemy can not. Even if you are fighting in the 15-20km bracket you should still have more than enough room to correct your flightpath.
If enemy is fast enough to cross that gap before you can react (talking 5k/s+) then you are fighting a frigate which can be removed pretty quickly by neut+ACs+drones.
5km scrambler would make it more than useless. Example: There would be zero chance of living through an encounter with the cookie-cutter 14km Crusader unless you have a heavy neut or multiple faction webs.
Frigates wouldn't even need dual-prop to be effective against larger targets. Currently they generally have to be within 10km for weapons to do anything, but there is no need to be within 5km ..
Reduce scramble range and anything without staggered medium neuts would be kited by MWD using frigates orbiting at 7-8km .. just outside small-neut/scram range. Bad for game.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
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Posted - 2010.04.13 16:22:00 -
[14]
It's actually pretty hard to keep out of scrambler range if you use disruptor yourself. Unless there's a lot of difference between max speed/agility.
And then there's gang fights (as the fights usually are) where range advantage of disruptor is pretty pointless since you're going to hit someone's scrambler range sooner or later even with interceptor.
Imho scrambler isn't really that powerful just need to stop relying on mwd, BUT scrambler bonus on proteus is gay.
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Valandril
Caldari
Ex-Mortis
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Posted - 2010.04.13 16:33:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Valandril on 13/04/2010 16:33:26
***a problem is not that it can be tackled by a frig because you can take it down very fast (neut + 5 warriors = dead frig). Problem is that rest of the gang will catch up and kill you.
Which is fine, if you engage a gang and fail to properly manage your ***a to split it enough to take down frigs first, you deserve to die.
MWD scramblers are a lot more of a nerf to gall boats than to ***a.
Read latest "THE WORD" |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.13 16:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn
And then there's gang fights (as the fights usually are) where range advantage of disruptor is pretty pointless since you're going to hit someone's scrambler range sooner or later even with interceptor.
This was one of the major impacts QR had on the nano-paradigm.
It is now too dangerous to use a nano-ship as a frontline damage dealer against multiple enemies. The new role is to zoom around the periphery assassinating eWar and ships that wander outside the protection of its fellows.
I have lost goddess knows how many interceptors/frigates to Vagabonds, even if you manage to get the scram on you are dead before he decelerates to base speed and kicks on the MWD again. Most annoying ship.
Best tactic so far has been to have a jammer supporting the interceptors so they can maintain a scram until something sturdier can reach it and take over tackle.
Does the Proteus have a recon bonus? Rather nasty with its dps/EHP if so
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.04.13 19:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Torothanax
Before scrams shut off MWDs, MWDs were required modules for pvp. Now you can actually pvp with an AB.
Before the nano nerf, the Vagabond was the "I don't lose" ship. Nano was a required fit for any roaming fleet.
Before Nos was nerfed, it was a required module for pvp. No one used neuts.
Before ECM was nerfed, WAY back when, it was quite popular to fit one in any extra mid slot. If you got a jam off, which frequently happened, you won. Now ECM is only useful on ships that have a bonus for it.
These were all changes that were good for the game. When I started Eve, everyone who pvp'ed flew gallente. The ONLY fit was nos, web (2 if you could fit it), warp disruptor, blasters, ecm if you could fit it, hobgoblins or hammer heads, and whatever tank worked around everything else. The only tactic was to aproach your target, activate everything, and see who won.
Quit trying to go backward.
This post should be stickied at the top of the forum, and required reading for posting.
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Originally by: Dodgy Past
Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.14 01:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Torothanax
Now you can actually pvp with an AB.
This is true with a couple of exceptions.
One of those exceptions that I've always found hilarious is the rapier (and friends). If you try going for an AB setup your likely to watch mwd'ing frigates outrun you even when they're double webbed.
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