Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Prince Vorash
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 15:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Prince Vorash on 15/04/2010 16:01:26 I did not see any on topic threads trying to resolve this issue in the sticky's. The one thread that does involve this issue of game mechanics is so off topic I don't know what to say. So anyway...
Ideas to solve an ongoing issue:
1. My first Idea is that a skill be made specifically for missions which allows players to lock gates/dead space complexes to uninvited guests (I.E. Ninja Salvagers). 2. Implement Salvage drones to combat the as suggested in this thread: here
These are crazy Ideas I know. I also know that some missions don't have a gate or more than one room for that matter.
I can't afford things when someone is stealing my primary source of income. I mean these ninjas are getting bold. They don't just steal salvage anymore. They get you blown up. And that is not progressive for new players.
|
Di Mulle
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 16:37:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Prince Vorash Edited by: Prince Vorash on 15/04/2010 16:01:26 I did not see any on topic threads trying to resolve this issue in the sticky's. The one thread that does involve this issue of game mechanics is so off topic I don't know what to say. So anyway...
Ideas to solve an ongoing issue:
1. My first Idea is that a skill be made specifically for missions which allows players to lock gates/dead space complexes to uninvited guests (I.E. Ninja Salvagers). 2. Implement Salvage drones to combat the as suggested in this thread: here
These are crazy Ideas I know. I also know that some missions don't have a gate or more than one room for that matter.
I can't afford things when someone is stealing my primary source of income. I mean these ninjas are getting bold. They don't just steal salvage anymore. They get you blown up. And that is not progressive for new players.
The short answer would be - there is no issue to solve.
Another short answer - your vision is bit selective.Linkage, from stickies page.
|
Arden Elenduil
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 16:44:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Arden Elenduil on 15/04/2010 16:45:02 And here we go again.
Ninja salvaging, tough luck, there's no way to help prevent that.
As for them blowing you up, that's only because they stole an item from one of the wrecks. My advice, don't shoot -> problem solved.
|
Hikaru Sulu
Caldari Black Legion Industries
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 16:50:00 -
[4]
THERE IS NO ISSUE. If anyone knew anything about the technical definition of salvage especially in maritime law on the high seas is that its fair game to whoever gets there first.
If you cant afford to lose the salvage, get a marauder to salvage and loot while you run the mission, or get a friend or an alt to be salvaging while your doing the mission.
As to you getting blown up by them, that's obviously your fault. If they stole (that's taking loot from your wrecks, not salvaging them, since you don't seem to quite grasp the difference) from you and you attacked them without having friends on standby or not having a ship that could take them on, that's again your own fault.
Originally by: Morrow Disca So, I find myself suddenly cross training for Amarr. .... because the Abaddon firing lasers looks cooler than the Fonz carrying a big bag of cool things. |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 17:35:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Whitehound on 15/04/2010 17:38:40 There certainly is an issue. Most annoying for me is the creepiness of these suckers. They show up before one is done with a mission, they steal from the wrecks, sometimes the mission relevant items, and all while one is fighting the NPC ships. One needs to bring a small fleet of salvager ships to clean up the wrecks a.s.a.p. and have PvPers around to fight off any thieves.
I am not saying that one cannot solve the issue without CCP, but it is getting ridiculous how some players have specialized on this play style. It is easy for them to go into high level missions to salvage and steal, and it is not getting easier for those who are running the missions.
I am wondering why CCP keeps supporting such creepy play styles when they want more cooperative decision making from players as shown with "The Butterfly Effect" video. I fear an incline of lonely high-sec can flippers for the coming years ... --
|
Nika Dekaia
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 18:04:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 15/04/2010 18:06:41
Originally by: Whitehound I am not saying that one cannot solve the issue without CCP, but it is getting ridiculous how some players have specialized on this play style.
Salvaging is a profession. That's why people specialize in it and make their living off it.
Originally by: Whitehound It is easy for them to go into high level missions to salvage and steal, and it is not getting easier for those who are running the missions.
Who said mission runners should have it even easier?
Originally by: Whitehound I am wondering why CCP keeps supporting such creepy play styles when they want more cooperative decision making from players as shown with "The Butterfly Effect" video. I fear an incline of lonely high-sec can flippers for the coming years ...
orly? But you just said: Originally by: Whitehound One needs to bring a small fleet of salvager ships to clean up the wrecks a.s.a.p. and have PvPers around to fight off any thieves.
Isn't that like cooperating with other players? And by the way: those can flippers, salvagers and mission loot thieves are actually interacting with other players. The mission runner is the one who doesn't.
Oh yeah: and don't mission in hubs.
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 18:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Salvaging is a profession. That's why people specialize in it and make their living off it.
Orly?
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Who said mission runners should have it even easier?
And who says ninja salvaging shall be this easy? No one does. Instead, people want it to be less easy.
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Isn't that like cooperating with other players?
Yes, it is. And it is not getting easier for those who do, like I said.
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Oh yeah: and don't mission in hubs.
Isn't this like making it harder for ninja salvagers?!? You have me confused here, girl. --
|
mchief117
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 18:40:00 -
[8]
Simple enough solution that i employ , it takes between at least 5 seconds for a salvager to attempt a cycle , it takes lest time to target that wreck and blow it up.
and while im all for ccp actualy making salvaging a wreck they dont own a punishable action ie flaging i do understand that ccp like a game where criminals can be crimainals and do all the underhanding stuff the do.
long story short , if there is a mission specific item burn for it first , if a ninja does show up shoot any loot he heads for / tractor beams and he will eventualy leave as hes not getting anything.
you would be suprised the verbal abuse i have receaved as i continualy blast wrecks there trying to steal, ninja rants power my ship |
Nika Dekaia
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 19:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Salvaging is a profession. That's why people specialize in it and make their living off it.
Orly?
Yeah, rly.
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Who said mission runners should have it even easier?
And who says ninja salvaging shall be this easy? No one does. Instead, people want itÇ to be less easy.
The current game mechanics (CCP) say so. Some people cry about salvagers, others tell them to HTFU. It has been so ever since CCP changed the mechanic so you wouldn't have to loot the wreck in order to salvage it. CCP stated countless times that they are quite content with the current system. So don't get your hopes up.
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Isn't that like cooperating with other players?
Yes, it is. And it is not getting easier for those who do, like I said.
Take a noob / alt along to salvage. Didn't say it was easier, but that is the purpose of an MMO. Did you know that you can make the same or even more ISK by NOT salvaging / looting and whoring missions instead?
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Oh yeah: and don't mission in hubs.
Isn't this like making it harder for ninja salvagers?!? You have me confused here, girl.
Yeah, it actually is making it harder for them. I'm not missioning in a hub and I have no problems with salvagers. It's your choice if you make yourself a target.
|
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
|
Posted - 2010.04.15 19:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Salvaging is a profession. That's why people specialize in it and make their living off it.
Orly?
For your (hopeful) enlightenment regarding salvage as a profession:
er CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
--------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
|
|
Torothanax
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 01:52:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Torothanax on 16/04/2010 01:52:55
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Salvaging is a profession. That's why people specialize in it and make their living off it.
MINI profession. It's far to lucrative. It shouldn't even compare to full professions like combat pilot or miner. Originally by: Nika Dekaia Who said mission runners should have it even easier?
No one said missions were extremely difficult. Ninja salvaging however is far easier, has an almost non existant isk and time investment, and is nearly as lucrative. Plus there's no way to retaliate against a ninja. There's no reason to not be a ninja other then personal scruples.
|
Comodore John
Gallente Shattered Star Exiles
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 03:07:00 -
[12]
Here's an idea:
1. Buy T3 2. Make unscannable ship set up 3. ??? 4. Profit
|
Misanthra
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 05:08:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Misanthra on 16/04/2010 05:08:55 edit: nvm....wrong ninjya thread lol
|
Brechan Skene
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 07:34:00 -
[14]
Here is a complete quote from CCP Prism X
CCP Prism X û Quote: Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
If you're surprised as to why the server does not consider it your stuff, it's because it's a mini profession designed for people who want to roam and look for salvage, not to further increase the revenue from mission grinding.. I doubt anyone with a perspective thinks we need to high-sec increase mission grinding any further.
Simple solution to the non-issue. Please don't take this as any bashing just for suggesting ideas. I have nothing against brainstorming on the forums. However, I'm going to let you in on a little CCP non-secret which is: "NPE". EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around.
See Actual Post. You now have your answer.
Brechan
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 08:10:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts For your (hopeful) enlightenment regarding salvage as a profession:
Oh, thank you!! I do know what it is, but that isn't the topic of the thread. So ... --
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 08:38:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Whitehound on 16/04/2010 08:41:04
Originally by: Brechan Skene Here is a complete quote from CCP Prism X
CCP Prism X û Quote: (explanation with reasoning) ... EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around.
See Actual Post. You now have your answer.
Brechan
The first part of CCP Prism's comment is a good explanation and gives reasons. The second part is his personal opinion and has no meaning for us players. It is what he believes and obviously is different from what we players believe. I believe that EVE certainly is not a "really hostile" game - it is what people make of it. I then do not think that veterans should get grieved over newbies either ... instead, his comment suggests that he likes to have grief (or that he is not a veteran). --
|
Brechan Skene
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 09:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 16/04/2010 08:41:04
Originally by: Brechan Skene Here is a complete quote from CCP Prism X
CCP Prism X û Quote: (explanation with reasoning) ... EVE is a really hostile game. We love how hostile it is.. we never meant for it to be a breeze. However, it's also accepted that, on top of the intended complexity, the tools and rules you play with/by aren't highly intuative. You are suggesting a dual functionality.. one for newbies and another for vets (of course you did not say that, however just because some people chill in newb corps and ain't newbs doesn't mean we should punish the new players) and to compound the inherent confusion in that the newbie functionality is more hostile and more open to griefing than the veteran functionality. It shouldn't be much different.. and if it had to be it should be the other way around.
See Actual Post. You now have your answer.
Brechan
The first part of CCP Prism's comment is a good explanation and gives reasons. The second part is his personal opinion and has no meaning for us players. It is what he believes and obviously is different from what we players believe. I believe that EVE certainly is not a "really hostile" game - it is what people make of it. I then do not think that veterans should get grieved over newbies either ... instead, his comment suggests that he likes to have grief (or that he is not a veteran).
The "it is what he believes in" is a very good response if you were providing it for the opinion expressed by you or me. However CCP Prism X is as far as I am aware still current employee of CCP and thus a representative of what the company stands for. Therefore what he says the company says. If the above statement was not inline with CCP policy or guidelines in accordance with the salvaging mechanic it would have been removed long ago and a forum moderator would have removed the quote that I had made.
Brechan
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 10:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Brechan Skene ...
This is yet another believe. Let us just stick to the topic. I would like to read about some ideas, and not another troll thread. --
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 10:07:00 -
[19]
you need ideas to solve a nonissue?
|
1600 RT
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 10:22:00 -
[20]
go run mission in lowsec or 0.0 if you dont want ninja salvagers
|
|
darius mclever
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 10:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: 1600 RT go run mission in lowsec or 0.0 if you dont want ninja salvagers
you dont have to be that extreme.... moving out of the big hubs like dodixie, motsu, auvergne (just to name a few examples) helps already.
|
Azirapheal
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 10:51:00 -
[22]
ive not been missioning long, far prefer shooting players for their loot. but as it turns out grinding security and standings might be an idea so i can get back into highsec to grief people there...
anyway, long story short i very rarely if ever salvage and loot missions (unless i know theres something tasty thats dropped)
so ninja salvagers are more than welcome to come salvage my missions... in lowsec... with a blinky red mission runner :)
highsec the protection runs both ways... mission in lowsec and you can defend yourself as much as you want. even preemptively striking them should you choose to.
not that ive had anyone appear in my mission for loot extraction yet :(
Originally by: Azirapheal i never ever thought id live to see the day.... that titans were nerfed for being FOTM HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist SoonÖ
|
Karak Terrel
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 11:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Whitehound
I am wondering why CCP keeps supporting such creepy play styles when they want more cooperative decision making from players as shown with "The Butterfly Effect" video. I fear an incline of lonely high-sec can flippers for the coming years ...
As the video says, eve is a sandbox and YOU have to search for a way to secure your stuff. It is not up to CCP to make the game easy for you while preventing others doing they'r thing. I was a mission runner for the first year of my eve life and i absolutly know how ninja salvagers suck. But you have to look ingame for a solution. Run missions with firends, hire a new eve player to salvage for you (with 50% of the loot they make more isk as they can do otherwise). If the salvage ninja buisiness flourishes it may also be time to take the foodchain one step further and trap them on a regular basis (They usualy have friends with logistics, so you have to plan this carefully). If every 5th attempt to steal salvage or blow up a mission runner ends in a disaster it may reduce they'r number drasticaly.
The biggest mistake in eve you can do is to play this game like a singleplayer game. I'm sure you find other mission runners to create a colliation against salvage ninjas.
|
cBOLTSON
Caldari Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 13:01:00 -
[24]
Oh my god more salvage whines. You have it easy enough as it is! High income ... and the worst thing you have to worry about is someone stealing your salvage! Hell BAIT them and gank them.
You highsec'ers have it way to easy. Try being out in lowsec or null where generally you get similar levels of income to your highsec level 4`s, (I do say generally not when you find a nice moon or nice DED plex etc..) however you have the threat of pirates, neuts and enemies comming into your system to blow you the **** up.
No learn to use your initiave. Set your d-scanner to like 1m k so you can see if a ship is about to warp to your location.
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 13:37:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Karak Terrel As the video says, eve is a sandbox and YOU have to search for a way to secure your stuff.
I know. I wrote this myself above. Thanks for reading my comments!
To your argument regarding CCP's duties, what it is they have to do and not have to do: either they have to stop making videos, which feature the idea of teamwork, or, they have to stop making game mechanics that feature solo player style playing.
If they keep doing what they are doing now then it will destroy their image - or at least it will give them the reputation for making dumb videos.
And to be honest, who wants to give the wallet of a noob a boost? Seriously??
Originally by: Karak Terrel The biggest mistake in eve you can do is to play this game like a singleplayer game.
This is true for me as it is for the ninja salvager, is it not?! --
|
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
|
Posted - 2010.04.16 15:34:00 -
[26]
Quote: 1. My first Idea is that a skill be made specifically for missions which allows players to lock gates/dead space complexes to uninvited guests (I.E. Ninja Salvagers).
What a dumb idea! Have you even thought about how this would affect the game as a whole? or did you just selfishly just think about yourself?
You have just created a 'Safe Spot' in any system that someone can get a mission in.
Well done, you broke the game!
------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------ |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |