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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.21 12:44:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/04/2010 12:44:54
 Originally by: Average Jack
It's not an option simply "not to play them". Blocking people from undocking (by camping the station) is a required part of any attack on a station system. What should I do? Simply allow the hostiles free access to their station because the game mechanic is so frustrating?
Again: undocking should be a commitment and not a stupid game to "blueball" the attackers because the defender lacks the skill (and balls) to fight properly. This is not only problematic when you have neutral logistics involved (that's just an added ******ation-bonus by CCP). It sucks in any situation and finally should be addressed properly.
If we're talking about player sov 0.0: take the station.
If we are not talking about that, then there is no reason for you to be able to block access to a station, really. In your dictionary "don't have the balls to fight properly" means "don't want to die to my blob". So tell me, why exactly station camps need a booost?
Originally by: Average Jack
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Undocking&redocking only annoys the station campers. Which is quite fine with me; station campers really do not need a boost.
A boost? Because they can't play their games any more without being killed...? U mad? You seem to be forgetting that the station campers are the people who would suffer the most from this change (because after being forced to dock they can't undock again).
Right now station campers can't kill anyone with a brain. Your change means they can kill basically everyone who undocks and doesn't have luck with spamming dock. This is NOT a boost to station camping because? ^^
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.21 13:19:00 -
[62]
Quote:
àmore specifically: by having RR give the same docking timers as offensive actions û the aggro is already there in terms of being allowed to shoot the logistics, but since they don't have the timer, they can just redock and shake off any attack.
As a logistics pilot whos main tactic is hugging gates and jumping through when taking damage (this is in 0.0, not neutral empire ***otry), i agree this needs to change. However obviously this needs to be done careful, since it is a direct nerf to logistics, and in general they are balanced.
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Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.04.21 14:31:00 -
[63]
Fail pirate tears are the best tears.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.21 15:42:00 -
[64]
no reason to be against this change unless ur the one playing docking games.
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Fearless M0F0
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:05:00 -
[65]
There is no need to change the mechanics of station games. Both Red Federation and Blue Republic have been at the receiving end of station camping by third party war targets and we have shown the campers how useless that tactic is.
- If you are whining because you can't kill the war target before he re-docks get ships with more DPS
- Station windows would be nice to have but there is no need for them, just undock a buffer battleship, there is no way they kill you before you can re-dock.
EVE II "Dominion" - The Return of teh LAG |
Voxira
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:10:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mr Xanatos
- Make stations much much larger
- Have 10 undock points which you can choose to leave from
- All stations should be kickers, at least 5-10km
- Allow player to look out a window
Thats my 2 cents
Incarna?
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:28:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Trader20 on 21/04/2010 16:34:16
Originally by: Fearless M0F0
There is no need to change the mechanics of station games. Both Red Federation and Blue Republic have been at the receiving end of station camping by third party war targets and we have shown the campers how useless that tactic is.
- If you are whining because you can't kill the war target before he re-docks get ships with more DPS
- Station windows would be nice to have but there is no need for them, just undock a buffer battleship, there is no way they kill you before you can re-dock.
u just contradicted urself....
Get more dps if we can't kill a target but u can safely undock then redock in a buffer tanked bs? Look I don't think that everytime u undock into a station camp u should die. I'm all for instawarp bookmarks and dodging camps but the docking games is just stupid. People undock and redock in their faction bs and call it pvp.
So if your against this idea I'm just going to assume u play docking games because theirs no other reason to disagree with this change.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Fearless M0F0
If they "fix" these mechanics you can be sure players will come up with other ways to frustrate your attempts at easy kills.
Yes; they'll stay docked. No more ******ed docking games. They wanna hide they can stay inside, they wanna leave they can commit.
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Did this sig become irrelevant while I was gone? Let me know! |
Deja Thoris
Invicta.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.04.21 16:44:00 -
[69]
I'd take a two tier approach.
Firstly I'd increase the aggro timer for capitals so have a go heros who want to gank a maulus in their thanatos can conceivably die for their trouble. Secondly I'd make the redock timer increase in increments of 30 seconds per docking attempt within 10 minutes or so. This means the first time you get back in on the current timer, second time scotty makes you wait 30 seconds more and so on.
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Gabriel Angelus
Amarr
Local-Spike
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:04:00 -
[70]
Interfacing with the station view should be the obvious answer to "look out the window".
Plus i'm all for all stations being kickers and increasing the aggression timer, oh and RR'ing causing a aggression timer...oh and....wait let me stop before this turns into a rant.
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Whatever is worth living for, is worth dying for. |
Sikander 2
Caldari
Vivicide
Vivisection.
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:14:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Sikander 2 on 21/04/2010 19:13:58
wtf is this undock?
Sikander 2 - as useless as the duck-billed platypus |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:46:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Ghoest on 21/04/2010 19:46:10
Im cool with players having a chance to kill anyone who tries to leave a station is they are willing to camp it.
The problem is in 0.0 npc stations and in low sec.
You need a way to look outside and decide if you just want to continue hiding inside or if you want to fight your way out - this doesnt exist currently(beyond undocking).
The OP and his like dont really want a way to lock people down and win wars. They want an "I win" button for station ambushing. |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:59:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Trader20
So if your against this idea I'm just going to assume u play docking games because theirs no other reason to disagree with this change.
Cool story bro.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.21 20:13:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/04/2010 20:13:59
Originally by: Ghoest
The problem is in 0.0 npc stations and in low sec.
Just for lowsec*, the problems, assuming station window (overview) is implemented:
1) As long as someone (or more neutrals) with you in station, undocking is a game of russian roulette as long as you don't have a instaundock.
2) Whenever you actually land on station, you may dock instantly, or you may not. I've on occasion had to wait upwards of 5s to dock somewhere, more in laggy situations.
3) Cloaky ships can camp the undock with impunity and no chance of detection. Therefore undocking as long as local is not empty is a game of russian roulette.
4) Stations become much much less safe then gates which spew you 12.5km out of jump radius in a random location 15km from gate (and therefore offer actual chances of surviving a gatecamp, particularly in cloaky ships).
5) With a overview you are still granted less intel then in space (where you also have things like the directional scanner) and given that there is only one undock location there are various interesting ways to camp a station without being on grid at the moment of undock.
Problems if station window is not implemented:
Undocking with people in local is throwing dice whether your ship dies or no without a instaundock.
*In NPC 0.0, not even a instaundock will save you, you are certifiably 100% dead on undock with the proper gang with zero chance of detection except seeing neutrals in local. Given neutrals in local is reasonably common in 0.0 NPC station systems... well. Fun.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.21 20:26:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Trader20
So if your against this idea I'm just going to assume u play docking games because theirs no other reason to disagree with this change.
Cool story bro.
u mad?
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.04.21 20:35:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Trader20
So if your against this idea I'm just going to assume u play docking games because theirs no other reason to disagree with this change.
Cool story bro.
u mad?
Those answers only work when the other guy says something dumb.
It worked whne he made fun of you.
It failed when you tried it.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2010.04.21 21:12:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 21/04/2010 21:12:53
In this thread:
People criticising people spellings of Your, You're, Yor, and Yarr as if it was someone sending a letter to the queen of England, and then spending hours checking the spelling and grammer of the rest of their posts on a cacky space game forum becuase they dont want to be picked up on it.
SKUNK
(i left a couple of errors in spelling for ya to feel superior about)
(o)
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.21 21:39:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Trader20
So if your against this idea I'm just going to assume u play docking games because theirs no other reason to disagree with this change.
Cool story bro.
u mad?
Those answers only work when the other guy says something dumb.
It worked whne he made fun of you.
It failed when you tried it.
u mad?
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2010.04.21 22:11:00 -
[79]
no i won
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
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Posted - 2010.04.21 22:31:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Trader20
u mad?
NO U
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Fearless M0F0
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.22 15:35:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Trader20
u just contradicted urself....
Uh, maybe. Coffee wasn't making effect yet when I typed that 
Originally by: Trader20
I'm all for instawarp bookmarks and dodging camps but the docking games is just stupid. People undock and redock in their faction bs and call it pvp.
So if your against this idea I'm just going to assume u play docking games because theirs no other reason to disagree with this change.
You say it as I should be ashamed for playing docking games, well, long time ago I learned not to care about how somebody else chooses to feel about what I do, you should try, it's liberating  .
If we get grieved by station campers we grieve them back playing docking games on them when we don't have enough firepower to bust the camp. This is "grief pvp", it is frustrating and it works great against emos 
You whine because you cannot get easy kills when camping a station and want CCP to "fix" it. The truth is you don't get easy kills because you suck at this game and somebody else beat you to the easy ones. 
pd: I suck at this game too, I just move on if I can't kill a target.
EVE II "Dominion" - The Return of teh LAG |
Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.22 16:25:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Fearless M0F0
Originally by: Trader20
u just contradicted urself....
Uh, maybe. Coffee wasn't making effect yet when I typed that
Originally by: Trader20
I'm all for instawarp bookmarks and dodging camps but the docking games is just stupid. People undock and redock in their faction bs and call it pvp.
So if your against this idea I'm just going to assume u play docking games because theirs no other reason to disagree with this change.
You say it as I should be ashamed for playing docking games, well, long time ago I learned not to care about how somebody else chooses to feel about what I do, you should try, it's liberating .
If we get grieved by station campers we grieve them back playing docking games on them when we don't have enough firepower to bust the camp. This is "grief pvp", it is frustrating and it works great against emos
You whine because you cannot get easy kills when camping a station and want CCP to "fix" it. The truth is you don't get easy kills because you suck at this game and somebody else beat you to the easy ones.
pd: I suck at this game too, I just move on if I can't kill a target.
So docking games is fun for you? Ok I change my opinion then, I don't want to take the fun out of the game for anyone. I thought ppl played docking games because they were bored but if it's fun for u then I can live with it. Station/gate camping is fun for me and I wouldn't want ccp to take that away so to each his own. (I'm not being sarcastic either, I really don't want to take away a feature that is fun for ppl, it's just a game so have fun)
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Fearless M0F0
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.22 16:40:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Trader20
So docking games is fun for you? Ok I change my opinion then, I don't want to take the fun out of the game for anyone. I thought ppl played docking games because they were bored but if it's fun for u then I can live with it. Station/gate camping is fun for me and I wouldn't want ccp to take that away so to each his own.
No, both station camping and docking games are lame but pvp is fun and grieving is a form of pvp. Your whining is proof your opponent is beating you at it.
EVE II "Dominion" - The Return of teh LAG |
Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.22 16:55:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Trader20 on 22/04/2010 16:58:08
Originally by: Fearless M0F0
Originally by: Trader20
So docking games is fun for you? Ok I change my opinion then, I don't want to take the fun out of the game for anyone. I thought ppl played docking games because they were bored but if it's fun for u then I can live with it. Station/gate camping is fun for me and I wouldn't want ccp to take that away so to each his own.
No, both station camping and docking games are lame but pvp is fun and grieving is a form of pvp. Your whining is proof your opponent is beating you at it.
So a wartarget undocking then redocking right away is him winning? So wat do u call it when we bump him off station in his faction bs and **** him?
edit: Actaully docking games are kinda fun because people think their invincible so they bring out the faction ships/mods thinkin they can just redock right away. Docking games are only 100% safe at 4-4
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Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.04.22 17:34:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 22/04/2010 16:58:08
[
So a wartarget undocking then redocking right away is him winning?
His point is you coming here to whine about it is what makes him the winner (and by extension makes you the loser).
Oh and if you managed to bump him off and gank him then that means that the mechanic is fine since it's not the I-win grief button like Ninja Salvaging is.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.22 18:07:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 22/04/2010 16:58:08
[
So a wartarget undocking then redocking right away is him winning?
His point is you coming here to whine about it is what makes him the winner (and by extension makes you the loser).
Oh and if you managed to bump him off and gank him then that means that the mechanic is fine since it's not the I-win grief button like Ninja Salvaging is.
where am I whining? geez u ppl are sensitive.
If i'm whining then ur whining about me whining which makes u an even bigger loser then me  and if he's posting in a whining thread then hes not a winner
moving on....
So yea, any other reasons to be against this change? Only reasons to disagree:
1. you play docking games
2. ur a carebear who doesn't like being wardecced and camped
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Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.04.22 18:20:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Trader20
Edited by: Trader20 on 22/04/2010 16:58:08
[
So a wartarget undocking then redocking right away is him winning?
His point is you coming here to whine about it is what makes him the winner (and by extension makes you the loser).
Oh and if you managed to bump him off and gank him then that means that the mechanic is fine since it's not the I-win grief button like Ninja Salvaging is.
where am I whining? geez u ppl are sensitive.
If i'm whining then ur whining about me whining which makes u an even bigger loser then me and if he's posting in a whining thread then hes not a winner
moving on....
So yea, any other reasons to be against this change? Only reasons to disagree:
1. you play docking games
2. ur a carebear who doesn't like being wardecced and camped
The fact that you posted the thread in the first place was a whine.
A far as reasons to be against the change? They are many.
It gives an unfair advantage to the campers over the camped.
There are already counters in the game.
It makes no damned sense that a module designed to prevent warp would prevent docking.
If you ask me the stations guns should WTFBBQ anyone who aggresses in their range camper or campy. WTF kind of station owner would put up with someone firing relativistic weapons in their vicinity. That would certainly solve the "problem" of station games.
But back to the original point.
You basically came here to whine to have CCP change a mechanic because you failed to figure out the counter. Many folks here have offered you viable counters but you aren't satisfied with that.
So what this whole thread boils down to is that you are asking for a change to game mechanics in order to compensate for your incompetence.
Sounds like whining too me.
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Dansel
Gallente
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.04.22 18:35:00 -
[88]
How about this, being unable to dock while an aggression timer is active on either of the parties shooting each other.
Ex. Ship A is shooting ship B outside a station. Ship A is getting low on HP and decides to deaggress and try to dock up. Normally you'd have to wait out that minute or whatever it is before you could dock up. I suggest that you could only dock up while Ship B aggression-timer have ticked down by one minute, i.e. would allowed him to dock.
tl;dr Make the aggression timer shared between parties shooting each other, and only for stations.
And by the way, they should really separate sigs from the main post.
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.22 18:40:00 -
[89]
so wat ur saying is ur a carebear and want to avoid pvp? I pretty much have the naysayers cornered, can't really denie why u don't want the change. You probably got ****d in ur faction ship by a station camp and now ur just bitter.
I'm still waiting for a non-carebear reason but I guess insulting me and derailing the thread is the only thing you can do when you've been proven wrong so keep it up, I can see right though ya
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Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.04.22 18:56:00 -
[90]
Take the 2 mins set up a Instant-undock bookmark with an interceptor, and you wont ever have to worry about being camped in a station again...Problem solved
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