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![Novara Ce Novara Ce](https://images.evetech.net/characters/359855611/portrait?size=64)
Novara Ce
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:55:00 -
[1]
Which ship would be better for learn solo PvP in 0.0, for not much experienced (in PvP) pilot? Fits are appreciated.
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![Psiri Psiri](https://images.evetech.net/characters/744904616/portrait?size=64)
Psiri
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Posted - 2010.04.21 17:56:00 -
[2]
Caracal with assault missile launchers (not heavy assault) for anti-frigate work.
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![Kimura Masahiko Kimura Masahiko](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1279180203/portrait?size=64)
Kimura Masahiko
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.04.21 18:15:00 -
[3]
Blaster Moa is fairly decent:
[Moa, Bloa] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small 'Knave' I Energy Drain
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x3
Swap stuff you can't use for T1 mods, omit rigs if short of isk. You may also want to swap the Invul for a Web and the Nos for a Neut if you want to take on frigs. Check out my sig its pretty cool
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![Skira Ranos Skira Ranos](https://images.evetech.net/characters/112804486/portrait?size=64)
Skira Ranos
Hatchet Men The Blood Money Cartel
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:14:00 -
[4]
Caldari. Solo. PvP.
Pick two. __
Recruiting Pirates and Mercenaries
Kokuryu Pirate Blog
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![Psiri Psiri](https://images.evetech.net/characters/744904616/portrait?size=64)
Psiri
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Skira Ranos Caldari. Solo. PvP.
Pick two.
Or just fly a Drake.
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![lollerwaffle lollerwaffle](https://images.evetech.net/characters/505653409/portrait?size=64)
lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.04.21 19:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Skira Ranos Caldari. Solo. PvP.
Pick two.
For a second I thought it was 2007 again.
Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think?
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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![Dav Varan Dav Varan](https://images.evetech.net/characters/938148864/portrait?size=64)
Dav Varan
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Posted - 2010.04.21 20:40:00 -
[7]
If you want to solo pvp and not die all the time train Minmatar.
Pick Ruppy or Stabber.
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![Psiri Psiri](https://images.evetech.net/characters/744904616/portrait?size=64)
Psiri
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Posted - 2010.04.21 21:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Dav Varan If you want to solo pvp and not die all the time train Minmatar.
Pick Ruppy or Stabber.
Or fly Amarr, or Caldari, or Gallente (ok, nvm Gallente).
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![Celeste Darklighter Celeste Darklighter](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1176173545/portrait?size=64)
Celeste Darklighter
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Posted - 2010.04.21 21:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Psiri
Originally by: Skira Ranos Caldari. Solo. PvP.
Pick two.
Or just fly a Drake.
Unless you're dying to use a cruiser, I second this. If you're dying to use a cruiser, try the blackbird. Personally I wouldn't use it solo though.
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![Stuart Price Stuart Price](https://images.evetech.net/characters/827183426/portrait?size=64)
Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2010.04.22 00:27:00 -
[10]
The Moa fit posted earlier is solid. It trashes a surprising amount of stuff.
It's better than a 'rax unless the 'rax pilot is using ECM drones in which case things are a lot tougher. Rupture is still basically the daddy but not by the massive gap some would have you believe.
AML Caracal is also made of win. Unfortunately, more and more frig pilots are getting wise to its awesomeness :( They still never see the ****OFFSPREY coming though. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
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![scunner funk scunner funk](https://images.evetech.net/characters/943113674/portrait?size=64)
scunner funk
Minmatar Connoisseurs Of Hallucination
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Posted - 2010.04.22 00:37:00 -
[11]
Edited by: scunner funk on 22/04/2010 00:42:25
I've never found a drake to be all that good solo, I'm sure people make it work but it's just too slow and heavy for my play style. Caracal on the other hand is one of my favorite ships and I get a lot of solo kills in it.
Fitting here sorry for the alt post, that toon was dumped in the militia because I was away from home and couldn't play.
3 slot tackle is a very nasty surprise for those f'ing dramiels or any other frigate though sometimes I roll with a 2nd LSE instead of a 2nd web which gives enough buffer to take on a small wolfpack. Slap on a sensor booster and you're a good addition to most roaming gangs as anti support.
Vs cruisers it can hold its own against anything that isn't tier 3, drone boats take a while to run out of drones but are helpless eventually, watch out for omens and ruptures though. Use the dual webs to keep cruisers at arms length and kite at disruptor range where possible to keep them in falloff while you're doing full damage.
The moa is a different beast, highly underrated but very capable 1 vs 1 against another T1 cruiser. The problem is that when was the last time you went out solo and got a well matched fight against a ship of the same class? Add to this the fact the it's such a fat cow even 1600mm plate cruisers can often kite you and it seems like a poor choice.
All is not lost however. Tank n gank fits like the one Kimura posted above are great for gangs but useless solo due to a lack of range control, fortunately the moa has one of the highest tank to gank ratios of any T1 cruiser in the game so there's room to cut some fat out:
[Moa, roadkill with guns] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Stasis Webifier II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Null M Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Warrior II x3
Yes that's a tracking enhanced nano moa with null loaded, no that's not a mistake.
Like many caldari ships it's got a range bonus and with increased range comes an increase in effective tracking and also unlocks the secret bonus of null ammo - it only drops 50ish dps off your raw damage from using CN antimatter whereas lasers and projectiles will loose 80 or more when they switch to long range ammo.
Plate fit ruptures can't close range so are either crippled by falloff or have to use barrage and hit your strongest resists, thoraxes don't stand a chance unless they've got ECM drones and omens lack the tank n gank to take you down not to mention have half your tracking.
And with CNAM loaded, a web and a neut you might hit a frigate sometime before hell freezes over.
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![Kimura Masahiko Kimura Masahiko](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1279180203/portrait?size=64)
Kimura Masahiko
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.04.22 08:44:00 -
[12]
My fit, with a web instead of invul (as I suggested in my post) is far superior to that. Check out my sig its pretty cool
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![Vladimir Norkoff Vladimir Norkoff](https://images.evetech.net/characters/812049218/portrait?size=64)
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.04.22 09:01:00 -
[13]
Originally by: scunner funk Caracal on the other hand is one of my favorite ships and I get a lot of solo kills in it... Fitting here... Vs cruisers it can hold its own against anything that isn't tier 3...
You must fight alot of very incompetent pilots then, cuz most well fit tier 1 cruisers could take down your glass cannon fairly easily.
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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![Marko Riva Marko Riva](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1417884390/portrait?size=64)
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.04.22 10:55:00 -
[14]
[Moa, Whoa] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x3
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
![scunner funk scunner funk](https://images.evetech.net/characters/943113674/portrait?size=64)
scunner funk
Minmatar Connoisseurs Of Hallucination
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:12:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kimura Masahiko My fit, with a web instead of invul (as I suggested in my post) is far superior to that.
At what, dieing to ruptures? You have a top speed of 1,273 m/s and an optimal range of 2.8km, Ruptures have superior firepower at close range, EMP ammo to hit your weakest resist and are faster so can pull back and switch to barrage or disengage at will if they screw up.
On my setup I can dictate the range of the engagement and cripple autocannon DPS with falloff, my chances of catching a kite by overheating my mwd are much higher because of my agility. Sure it's harder to do than simply close orbiting and hitting F1 but you shouldn't underestimate the advantages of exploiting your enemies weaknesses rather than relying purely on the moa's high tank to gank ratio.
Keep range on blaster boats and never let them get to their optimal is one of the first things you learn in pvp. My caracal would sit at 20km and laugh at your missed hit notifications, indeed any cruiser that isn't piloted by a noob who close orbits and hits F1 should be able to evade most of your firepower.
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
You must fight alot of very incompetent pilots then, cuz most well fit tier 1 cruisers could take down your glass cannon fairly easily.
If you're dieing to scythes and ospreys in a caracal you're doing something horribly wrong. To reiterate, my fighting style is about controlling the engagement range because you don't need so much tank when your enemy is being forced to fight with the wrong ammo loaded. EFT is not PvP.
As I said in the first post You can fit 2 slot tackle and two LSE's, this takes your tank up to about 19k EHP and is probably a better fit for newer players but brings us back to the caldari curse of being too slow to dictate range.
The biggest advantage of the AML caracal is the ability to hit for full damage regardless of range, blaster boats can be kept at arms length, autocannons forced deep in to falloff and webbed drones get shredded by AML's. Lasers can be a problem but you can't have everything.
I'm not saying the caracal's an amazing ship for fighting other cruisers, make a mistake and you'll go down hard but you can make it work if you know your enemies weakness. What makes it so good for solo work is a wide variety of target choice, the ability to warp to a gang at range, kill a couple of tacklers as they burn towards you and then GTFO while also having the option of engaging small wolfpacks and solo T1 cruisers. Not many ships can be used like this.
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![SFX Bladerunner SFX Bladerunner](https://images.evetech.net/characters/106509863/portrait?size=64)
SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar The Hurt Locker Sandbox Bullies
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: scunner funk
Originally by: Kimura Masahiko My fit, with a web instead of invul (as I suggested in my post) is far superior to that.
At what, dieing to ruptures? You have a top speed of 1,273 m/s and an optimal range of 2.8km, Ruptures have superior firepower at close range, EMP ammo to hit your weakest resist and are faster so can pull back and switch to barrage or disengage at will if they screw up.
On my setup I can dictate the range of the engagement and cripple autocannon DPS with falloff, my chances of catching a kite by overheating my mwd are much higher because of my agility. Sure it's harder to do than simply close orbiting and hitting F1 but you shouldn't underestimate the advantages of exploiting your enemies weaknesses rather than relying purely on the moa's high tank to gank ratio.
Keep range on blaster boats and never let them get to their optimal is one of the first things you learn in pvp. My caracal would sit at 20km and laugh at your missed hit notifications, indeed any cruiser that isn't piloted by a noob who close orbits and hits F1 should be able to evade most of your firepower.
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
You must fight alot of very incompetent pilots then, cuz most well fit tier 1 cruisers could take down your glass cannon fairly easily.
If you're dieing to scythes and ospreys in a caracal you're doing something horribly wrong. To reiterate, my fighting style is about controlling the engagement range because you don't need so much tank when your enemy is being forced to fight with the wrong ammo loaded. EFT is not PvP.
As I said in the first post You can fit 2 slot tackle and two LSE's, this takes your tank up to about 19k EHP and is probably a better fit for newer players but brings us back to the caldari curse of being too slow to dictate range.
The biggest advantage of the AML caracal is the ability to hit for full damage regardless of range, blaster boats can be kept at arms length, autocannons forced deep in to falloff and webbed drones get shredded by AML's. Lasers can be a problem but you can't have everything.
I'm not saying the caracal's an amazing ship for fighting other cruisers, make a mistake and you'll go down hard but you can make it work if you know your enemies weakness. What makes it so good for solo work is a wide variety of target choice, the ability to warp to a gang at range, kill a couple of tacklers as they burn towards you and then GTFO while also having the option of engaging small wolfpacks and solo T1 cruisers. Not many ships can be used like this.
I nano my ruptures, FYI. __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
![Gypsio III Gypsio III](https://images.evetech.net/characters/764629986/portrait?size=64)
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: scunner funk Caracal on the other hand is one of my favorite ships and I get a lot of solo kills in it.
Fitting here sorry for the alt post, that toon was dumped in the militia because I was away from home and couldn't play.
This is my favoured Caracal fit also - I always favoured the second web for solo work. People are generally aware of the AML Caracal now, but for many months it was a glorious ship to fly after the QR speed/AF rebalances.
As for killing cruisers in it, well, it's certainly doable but it's hard. If the opponent is armour-tanked, then you've got a good chance, by using your mobility advantage to stay at range. Mistakes tend to be fatal though. As for nano-Rupture? Run!!!
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![Florio Florio](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1023861165/portrait?size=64)
Florio
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.22 12:50:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Florio on 22/04/2010 12:51:58 Edited by: Florio on 22/04/2010 12:50:42 Blaster Moa is pretty decent at toe-to-toe slug fests, but in 0.0 where speed is a more critical factor I can't imagine it doing anything well apart from die slowly.
Caracal can be fitted well with heavy launchers or assaults, but with heavy launchers you don't get a good enough tank to get within warp disruptor range.
This leaves you with an MWD assault caracal, which is great against frigs, but not hard enough hitting to do much to cruisers. An alternative to the dual web fit is to use a web and target painter.
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![scunner funk scunner funk](https://images.evetech.net/characters/943113674/portrait?size=64)
scunner funk
Minmatar Connoisseurs Of Hallucination
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Posted - 2010.04.22 13:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
I nano my ruptures, FYI.
Would this possibly be because you understand that the ability to dictate the fight is more important than fitting for pure tank n gank? Thank you for making my point clear.
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![SFX Bladerunner SFX Bladerunner](https://images.evetech.net/characters/106509863/portrait?size=64)
SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar The Hurt Locker Sandbox Bullies
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Posted - 2010.04.22 13:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: scunner funk
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
I nano my ruptures, FYI.
Would this possibly be because you understand that the ability to dictate the fight is more important than fitting for pure tank n gank? Thank you for making my point clear.
uhh, yeah that too.
Actually I posted it to tell you that you should not rely on your caracal being able to outrun (most) ruptures. __________________________________________________
History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.. |
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![lost marble lost marble](https://images.evetech.net/characters/353655688/portrait?size=64)
lost marble
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.04.22 14:38:00 -
[21]
Edited by: lost marble on 22/04/2010 14:38:05
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![scunner funk scunner funk](https://images.evetech.net/characters/943113674/portrait?size=64)
scunner funk
Minmatar Connoisseurs Of Hallucination
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Posted - 2010.04.22 14:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
Actually I posted it to tell you that you should not rely on your caracal being able to outrun (most) ruptures.
Go back and read my first post, I specifically stated that tier 3 in general and ruptures and omens in particular were bad targets for a caracal (I know the omen's tier 2 but scorch hurts). Gypsio summed it up well.
The rupture references were in respect to the moa which does have the tank n gank to take on a rupture though victory would be down to player skills, SP and fit.
As Florio said, a slow ship won't do anything well apart from die slowly. I've tried the slow tank n gank moa fits for solo and had some success but then I got kited to death by a pair of range fit destroyers, the TE / nano fit was a direct response to that engagement and now that I've tried it I'd never go back.
Anyways just my 0.02 isk, have fun all.
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![Trader20 Trader20](https://images.evetech.net/characters/288499385/portrait?size=64)
Trader20
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Posted - 2010.04.22 16:45:00 -
[23]
blaster moa for crusiers assualt caracal for anything sub-cruisers
and blackbird for everything else
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![Vladimir Norkoff Vladimir Norkoff](https://images.evetech.net/characters/812049218/portrait?size=64)
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.04.22 21:01:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff You must fight alot of very incompetent pilots then...
Originally by: scunner funk ...you don't need so much tank when your enemy is being forced to fight with the wrong ammo loaded. EFT is not PvP. (etc etc)
Kinda makes my point. You can't argue that you get to make all the right choices while your opponent doesn't, and yet somehow maintain the credibility that your opponent is competent and your kills are worthwhile evidence. Just doesn't work that way.
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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![scunner funk scunner funk](https://images.evetech.net/characters/943113674/portrait?size=64)
scunner funk
Minmatar Connoisseurs Of Hallucination
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Posted - 2010.04.22 23:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: scunner funk
you don't need so much tank when your enemy is being forced to fight with the wrong ammo loaded.
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
You can't argue that you get to make all the right choices while your opponent doesn't
**facepalm** Not in a nasty way, it's just that sometimes these forums can be a bit like chinese water torture.
You've clearly missed one of the fundamental basics of pvp - It's not about the choices your opponent makes, it's about exploiting weaknesses so your opponent only has bad options to choose from.
EG a moa engages a rupture, due to the nature of the ship bonuses and blasters vs autos the rupture has an advantage at close range and long range while the moa's got an advantage in the mid range.
If the fight's at close range the rupture can load EMP and hit the moas weakest resists as well as having a DPS advantage, if it's at long range he can load barrage and evade most of the incoming damage by staying out of blaster range. In this way EMP and barrage are the correct ammo choices for him.
If the moa can hold him at the edge of web range the rupture will have to choose between using EMP which will drop his DPS through falloff, barrage which will get longer falloff but do less raw damage or a mid range ammo with a longer optimal than EMP but less DPS. He'll also loose time reloading if he chooses to swap ammo. None of the ammo choices available to the rupture are ideal for this situation so by keeping the fight at the edge of web range the moa can force the rupture to use the wrong ammo type. This is not because the rupture pilot made a bad ammo choice it's because autos have a weakness and the moa exploited it.
This principle of each weapons system having weaknesses that can be exploited forms the basis of solo pvp and can be applied to any ship be it a caracal, rifter, vexor, etc.
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![Vladimir Norkoff Vladimir Norkoff](https://images.evetech.net/characters/812049218/portrait?size=64)
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2010.04.23 01:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: scunner funk You've clearly missed one of the fundamental basics of pvp - It's not about the choices your opponent makes, it's about exploiting weaknesses so your opponent only has bad options to choose from.
Yeah, clearly I must have missed that... Because your opponent will not be attempting to force you into those choices either. He will simply fall for w/e ploy or tactic you attempt to use against him. That is after all the very definition of a competent opponent. /sarcasm
Hence my point that you must be fighting rather incompetent cruiser pilots if they allow you to apparently impose your will so effortlessly upon them.
AML Crapacal is simply not a very good solo PvP ship. It can work, and it is fun beating up suckers with it. But it's terribly fragile, not a very fast or nimble base hull, and lacks significant punch. Against an equally skilled and talented opponent in a decently fit cruiser, odds are the Crapacal is gonna die. Great for popping frigs though.
Taxman IX: Risky Venture
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![Naliena Arlath Naliena Arlath](https://images.evetech.net/characters/174783388/portrait?size=64)
Naliena Arlath
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Posted - 2010.04.23 04:55:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Skira Ranos Caldari. Solo. PvP.
Pick two.
Fail.
It's:
Caldari Solo PvP Success
Pick 3.
Anyways, that's an and useless joke these days. Plenty of caldari ships able to hold their own in PvP. HAM drakes, AML Cara et.c.
If you wanna make jokes at least get them right and make sure they are valid. Else the joke is on you.
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![Naliena Arlath Naliena Arlath](https://images.evetech.net/characters/174783388/portrait?size=64)
Naliena Arlath
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Posted - 2010.04.23 05:01:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vladimir Norkoff
AML Crapacal is simply not a very good solo PvP ship. It can work, and it is fun beating up suckers with it. But it's terribly fragile, not a very fast or nimble base hull, and lacks significant punch. Against an equally skilled and talented opponent in a decently fit cruiser, odds are the Crapacal is gonna die. Great for popping frigs though.
If you take your AML Cara up vs other cruisers it better be from a lack of choice else you are a moron. Anyone doing pvp and fitting AML to cara should know its limits. Not gonna put medium turrets on a battleship then go fight battleships are you?
AML cara vs cruisers is no different, just different size hulls.
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![RasaelWolf RasaelWolf](https://images.evetech.net/characters/791078207/portrait?size=64)
RasaelWolf
Caldari Easy Co. Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.04.23 09:29:00 -
[29]
Neither, even tho the blasters and Thorax's speed are sucky atm, it kills both of these. Caldari is mostly for carebears, except for the awesomeness of caracal against fast ships, and how nber a drake can be in PVP.
But i'd say, cross-train for some other race if you wanna solo ![Smile](/images/icon_smile.gif)
---------------------------------------- "The more we learn, the less we care" ---------------------------------------- |
![Baron Agamemnon Baron Agamemnon](https://images.evetech.net/characters/1218059229/portrait?size=64)
Baron Agamemnon
Caldari The Einherji
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Posted - 2010.04.23 10:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: scunner funk Caracal on the other hand is one of my favorite ships and I get a lot of solo kills in it.
Fitting here sorry for the alt post, that toon was dumped in the militia because I was away from home and couldn't play.
This is my favoured Caracal fit also - I always favoured the second web for solo work. People are generally aware of the AML Caracal now, but for many months it was a glorious ship to fly after the QR speed/AF rebalances.
As for killing cruisers in it, well, it's certainly doable but it's hard. If the opponent is armour-tanked, then you've got a good chance, by using your mobility advantage to stay at range. Mistakes tend to be fatal though. As for nano-Rupture? Run!!!
This! ![Very Happy](/images/icon_biggrin.gif)
I use the AML cara a lot, and frigs just die to it. Unfortunatly peope are aware of this now a days...
But at least I thought a Dramiel a good lesson here the other day ![Laughing](/images/icon_lol.gif)
And yeah, you generally want to run from other cruisers except some blaster cruisers.
--- "And thus, another of the world's dreamers died, taking his dreams with him. Just as John Lennon wanted world peace, Gerald Bull simply wanted a gun big enough to fire **** into space." |
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