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CCP Fallout	Posted - 2010.04.22 16:44:00 - [1] With Tyrannis comes EVE Gate, and with both comes changes to the old standings system. CCP Karuck and CCP Prism X's new dev blog details what those changes are. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Armoured C Gallente Amarrian Retribution	Posted - 2010.04.22 16:52:00 - [2] Edited by: Armoured C on 22/04/2010 16:52:56 first finally =D good insight cant wait for a new social networking thing for eve that i can sink my teeth into =) good job
Manfred Rickenbocker	Posted - 2010.04.22 16:58:00 - [3] Lookin' good! Cant wait to browse my mail outside of game! ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times.
Anonymous Trader	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:10:00 - [4] Edited by: Anonymous Trader on 22/04/2010 17:12:34 looks good!! also 3rd ^^
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:28:00 - [5] Edited by: Gnulpie on 22/04/2010 17:28:16 Woah nice!! Mmmh, pretty confusing everything though. I hope it will be easier than it sounds. Also I still don't understand why some IN-GAME standings should affect my OUT-OF-GAME standings on a social network site. Sounds a bit odd to me. Or maybe I misunderstood something.
Louella Dougans Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:36:00 - [6] How many contacts can you have? Is it still limited to 300? Be A Space Nun! It's Fun!!
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:52:00 - [7] That new build better bring contact grouping back... Also WTB opt-out of EVE-Gate.
T'Amber www.shipsofeve.com Zephyris Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:54:00 - [8] Edited by: T''Amber on 22/04/2010 17:54:55 Sounds good, i think Can haez now plz? http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s260/MrOosterman/eventmenu_version2_mouseover.jpg -T'amber Vote T'amber for CSM5Ö
Seth Ruin Minmatar Ominous Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Catari Taga Also WTB opt-out of EVE-Gate. Just set everything on the privacy settings page to "No one"?
Isaac Starstriker Amarr Frontier Venture	Posted - 2010.04.22 18:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Seth Ruin Originally by: Catari Taga Also WTB opt-out of EVE-Gate. Just set everything on the privacy settings page to "No one"? What Seth said. Though that's pretty antisocial --Isaac A Paladin Without A Crusade... "You just can't fix stupid" Amarr Victor.
cBOLTSON Caldari Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.04.22 18:24:00 - [11] All looks and sounds fine. Not hugely excited about this but it may prove to be usefull, we shall see. Just one thing I find strange, how come 'NAPS' become +10 and friends only +5? Should that not be the other way around?
Lord Helghast	Posted - 2010.04.22 18:26:00 - [12] Edited by: Lord Helghast on 22/04/2010 18:31:07 Edited by: Lord Helghast on 22/04/2010 18:29:15 you'd think with this being done that treaties would be implimented at the same time. all good moves besides lack of treaties.... about evegate, why no dedicated button/box to post to evegate without having to load the entire site. Originally by: T'Amber Edited by: T''Amber on 22/04/2010 17:54:55 Sounds good, i think Can haez now plz? http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s260/MrOosterman/eventmenu_version2_mouseover.jpg -T'amber wait thats real? i didnt see that event menu, is that really in sisi now? or something u made up thats wicked. Originally by: Gnulpie Edited by: Gnulpie on 22/04/2010 17:28:16 Woah nice!! Mmmh, pretty confusing everything though. I hope it will be easier than it sounds. Also I still don't understand why some IN-GAME standings should affect my OUT-OF-GAME standings on a social network site. Sounds a bit odd to me. Or maybe I misunderstood something. because its all 1 game, do you really want that pirate that you just set -10 in the game to be able to see your buddies and harass them? no so thats why... of course that cna be avoided by setting privacy to share with only +5 and higher
DTson Gauur Caldari Underground-Operators	Posted - 2010.04.22 18:30:00 - [13] Quote: you should not expect any homicidal behavior (unless youæve got use aggression set on your POS but then it was a homicidal maniac before as well) Everytime I read this my mind goes to Odyssey 2001 HAL 9000 Saying: "I can't do that Dave..."
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.04.22 18:55:00 - [14] Edited by: Catari Taga on 22/04/2010 19:03:05 Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Originally by: Seth Ruin Originally by: Catari Taga Also WTB opt-out of EVE-Gate. Just set everything on the privacy settings page to "No one"? What Seth said. Though that's pretty antisocial Confirming I'm anti-social. Also you cannot set everything to no-one. edit: Originally by: Lord Helghast wait thats real? i didnt see that event menu, is that really in sisi now? or something u made up thats wicked. You wish. Just an awesome proposal. Ingame calendar on SiSi is nothing like that.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:01:00 - [15] nice read Secure 3rd party service \| my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Blazde 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:03:00 - [16] Originally by: DTson Gauur Quote: you should not expect any homicidal behavior (unless youæve got use aggression set on your POS but then it was a homicidal maniac before as well) Everytime I read this my mind goes to Odyssey 2001 HAL 9000 Saying: "I can't do that Dave..." The fratricidal* behavior of starbases is always unexpected, that's actually why it's so problematic * Let's hope they're still homicidal (in the right cases) _ Northern Coalition - Best friends forever <3
Trabber Shir Caldari 5I Incorporated	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:05:00 - [17] Originally by: Catari Taga Also you cannot set everything to no-one. iirc, the previous blog said you should be able to set everything to private except what is already visible in the "show info" window. Originally by: Lord Helghast Originally by: T'Amber Edited by: T''Amber on 22/04/2010 17:54:55 Sounds good, i think Can haez now plz? http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s260/MrOosterman/eventmenu_version2_mouseover.jpg -T'amber wait thats real? i didnt see that event menu, is that really in sisi now? or something u made up thats wicked. I would also like to know if this is real.
Gil Danastre Amarr Aeon Of Strife Discord.	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:09:00 - [18] I like the "+5 and +10 can take from jetcans without penalty". Does this apply just to ones that say a miner jettisons, or even ones in asteroid belts from pirate wrecks? Also I assume that anything other than 5 or 10 standings behaves as now, aggression timer, flashy etc.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:10:00 - [19] I think this addresses my primary concerns. I will be setting all personal contacts to +4.9 [to be promoted to "Good"]. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire

CCP Gecko	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:13:00 - [20] Originally by: Trabber Shir iirc, the previous blog said you should be able to set everything to private except what is already visible in the "show info" window. Yes you are correct. All three drop downs have the "No Pilots" option. Note, as states above, all information that is already available in the "Show Info" window will be available to all players using EVE Gate as it is available in game.


CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:42:00 - [21] Originally by: Louella Dougans How many contacts can you have? Is it still limited to 300? Yes it's still 300. We will consider raising it later if needed.

Radgette	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:44:00 - [22] Originally by: CCP Gecko Originally by: Trabber Shir iirc, the previous blog said you should be able to set everything to private except what is already visible in the "show info" window. Yes you are correct. All three drop downs have the "No Pilots" option. Note, as states above, all information that is already available in the "Show Info" window will be available to all players using EVE Gate as it is available in game. so yes or no can we go into eve gate and in 30 seconds have the names of every member of other corporations making intel gathering stupidly easy? or can we make our corporation / alliance member postings private making people still require to use spies and ingame methods / kb's etc to get intel
Latex Sandals	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:52:00 - [23] EvE-Gate needs to be Opt-IN. Not Opt-out. You are forcing people to log onto this thing so that they can protect their privacy and that is illegal in many places and certainly illogical in any place.
Ephemeral Waves Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2010.04.22 19:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Seth Ruin Originally by: Catari Taga Also WTB opt-out of EVE-Gate. Just set everything on the privacy settings page to "No one"? Why should I have to? I should have to make the conscious decision to participate in this thing rather than having it forced on me. The 70-80% of people in EvE that never read the forums will never log onto EvE-Gate and will never know that their private in-game information is out there free for anybody to look at.

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Radgette Originally by: CCP Gecko Originally by: Trabber Shir iirc, the previous blog said you should be able to set everything to private except what is already visible in the "show info" window. Yes you are correct. All three drop downs have the "No Pilots" option. Note, as states above, all information that is already available in the "Show Info" window will be available to all players using EVE Gate as it is available in game. so yes or no can we go into eve gate and in 30 seconds have the names of every member of other corporations making intel gathering stupidly easy? or can we make our corporation / alliance member postings private making people still require to use spies and ingame methods / kb's etc to get intel We don't display corp member lists on EVE Gate to anyone except members of that corporation. If you are referring to the fact that the EVE Gate profile shows what corp you are in, showinfo ingame shows the same thing.. so we are not exposing anything new. I guess you are referring to broadcasts (status updates) when you ask about "member postings" ? When a character posts something to his wall, it's entirely up to him who can see it. Communication Officers in corporations can also post Corporation Broadcasts, and those are only visible to members of that corporation. Originally by: Latex Sandals You are forcing people to log onto this thing so that they can protect their privacy and that is illegal in many places and certainly illogical in any place. By default I think our privacy settings are pretty safe, unless you have high standings already towards people you don't want to see your information on EVE Gate. That's why you should go now and clean up your standings list. Also remember that we are now using standings more, and for more things than just EVE Gate settings, as detailed in the blog. People are also forgetting one important thing. Even though you can see contacts of people on EVE Gate, you don't see what the standings are.. so it could be Excellent or Terrible :) If I set a pirate or ISK spammer to Terrible, it doesn't mean I want to be his friend.

Ephemeral Waves Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Lord Helghast because its all 1 game, do you really want that pirate that you just set -10 in the game to be able to see your buddies and harass them? no so thats why... of course that cna be avoided by setting privacy to share with only +5 and higher Yes. I have people that I shoot in game but am quite friendly with. In-game standings affect who I shoot at. Out-of-game standings are who I'd want to talk to and let see my eve-gate (were I not to set eve-gate to "nobody,ever, at all"
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:06:00 - [27] Originally by: CCP Karuck showinfo ingame shows the same thing.. so we are not exposing anything new. That's not the problem though. The problem is that evegate is much more accessible for a spider. You can't launch a spider at the eve client to extract a database of pilots and their corps. However, it's trivial to do just that with evegate.

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:17:00 - [28] Edited by: CCP Karuck on 22/04/2010 20:20:04 Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: CCP Karuck showinfo ingame shows the same thing.. so we are not exposing anything new. That's not the problem though. The problem is that evegate is much more accessible for a spider. You can't launch a spider at the eve client to extract a database of pilots and their corps. However, it's trivial to do just that with evegate. I'm very much aware of that. You could create macros for the client as well, but this makes the information more accessible.. which is also one of the reasons for creating EVE Gate in the first place. EVE Gate will become much more than just a social networking site, and in the first version you can access your EVE mail, calendar and contacts. Plan is to integrate even more gameplay features into EVE Gate and in a sense make it an alternative game client, just don't expect to fly and shoot up other players there.. Edit: Oh, you could crawl these forums as well.. they show your corp don't they?

Cassius Longinus Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:20:00 - [29] Specifically in terms of standings on overview (and hopefully local/show-info as well): I'm reading that this change will now mean, for people who don't edit their overview priorities, that +ve standings will override -ve standings, in situations where there are multiple relevant standings. So, for example, by setting allianceX as +5 from my alliance, I'm making sure that all my pilots will see any allianceX pilot as blue on overview, despite what they may have set in corp or personal standings. I could not do that by setting alliance -5, since any corp or personal standings of +ve values would override my -5. (Assuming no changes to the default overview colortag priorities.) Is that the plan?
T'Amber www.shipsofeve.com Zephyris Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Trabber Shir Originally by: Catari Taga Also you cannot set everything to no-one. iirc, the previous blog said you should be able to set everything to private except what is already visible in the "show info" window. Originally by: Lord Helghast Originally by: T'Amber Edited by: T''Amber on 22/04/2010 17:54:55 Sounds good, i think Can haez now plz? http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s260/MrOosterman/eventmenu_version2_mouseover.jpg -T'amber wait thats real? i didnt see that event menu, is that really in sisi now? or something u made up thats wicked. I would also like to know if this is real. Its not, I made it for my CSM agenda, along with some other cool stuff. Also good to see that Chribba is posting on first pages again. VOTE T'AMBER FOR CSM FIVE All your vote belong to meÖ Vote T'amber for CSM5Ö

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:28:00 - [31] Originally by: Cassius Longinus Specifically in terms of standings on overview (and hopefully local/show-info as well): I'm reading that this change will now mean, for people who don't edit their overview priorities, that +ve standings will override -ve standings, in situations where there are multiple relevant standings. So, for example, by setting allianceX as +5 from my alliance, I'm making sure that all my pilots will see any allianceX pilot as blue on overview, despite what they may have set in corp or personal standings. I could not do that by setting alliance -5, since any corp or personal standings of +ve values would override my -5. (Assuming no changes to the default overview colortag priorities.) Is that the plan? Yes that is correct, let me quote a bit from the devblog: Quote: That means that if I set an entire corporation to Terrible (-10) on my personal contact list everyone from that corporation will show up as red on my overview. That is, until your alliance decides that his entire alliance are pretty cool guys and sets his alliance to Good (+5) standings.

Milo Caman Gallente Anshar Incorporated	Posted - 2010.04.22 20:45:00 - [32] Edited by: Milo Caman on 22/04/2010 20:47:29 Really Nice n' all, but: Why, Why and Why have outlaw take priority over blue/red standings by default? I mean seriously? We had a few really irritating friendly fire incidents last time the settings got reset, I hope you're not planning on setting them to default. Again. Out of Sinq
Matalino	Posted - 2010.04.22 21:08:00 - [33] Edited by: Matalino on 22/04/2010 21:09:07 Originally by: CCP Karuck If you are referring to the fact that the EVE Gate profile shows what corp you are in, showinfo ingame shows the same thing.. so we are not exposing anything new. As Batolemaeus pointed out, access to this information is easily automated (without hacking the client) and can therefore be compilied into corp lists. Originally by: CCP Karuck Edit: Oh, you could crawl these forums as well.. they show your corp don't they? Only if you turn the option on, and only if you post to the forums. Characters that do not post to the forums or do not enable the option to display corp membership will not have thier corp membership displayed on the forums. Therefore the forums is not an effective source to spider corp membership. Please, require opt-in before displaying corp membership on EveGate. Better yet, please require opt-in before displaying anything on EveGate. Originally by: Dev Blog Note: Any check made from an entity to itself resolves in excellent standings When advertising a fleet based on statndings, which standing is used to decide if the fleet is available: highest, lowest, or most personal? Does this mean that all fleets advertised based on standings will always be available to the entire corp/alliance because the standings (from your corp/alliance to any corp-mate/alliance-mate) always resolve to excellent.
Lord Helghast	Posted - 2010.04.22 21:47:00 - [34] Edited by: Lord Helghast on 22/04/2010 21:50:03 Originally by: Milo Caman Edited by: Milo Caman on 22/04/2010 20:47:29 Really Nice n' all, but: Why, Why and Why have outlaw take priority over blue/red standings by default? I mean seriously? We had a few really irritating friendly fire incidents last time the settings got reset, I hope you're not planning on setting them to default. Again. exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! standings should always override outlaw status or GCC status or whatever, friendly fire due to default overview layout is just STUPID, CCP FIX THIS FOR TYRANNIS PLEASE! Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Dev Blog Note: Any check made from an entity to itself resolves in excellent standings When advertising a fleet based on statndings, which standing is used to decide if the fleet is available: highest, lowest, or most personal? Does this mean that all fleets advertised based on standings will always be available to the entire corp/alliance because the standings (from your corp/alliance to any corp-mate/alliance-mate) always resolve to excellent. i think thats how it will be, and dont really see the issue, i mean when wud u want a fleet in fleet finder thats allowed to +5's but not from your alliance?
Mithfindel Aseyakone	Posted - 2010.04.22 22:07:00 - [35] Quote: 8. Not a change but a handy note to have here: NPC corporations do not have corporate contacts, nor do corporations who do not belong to an alliance have an access to an alliance contact list. Wait, what? Three points: - Contacts = standings + contacts list for players? So is it corp contacts = standings? If so, x Nerf to corporate jump clones? x Corps cannot set standings on an alliance? Might be reading wrong... could just well be that NPC corp standings are done on the fly (I assume that currently they are calculated during the downtime and set as standings, though no idea about the actual implementation) and that corps can't see friendly alliances' lists (in Eve Gate).
Trabber Shir Caldari 5I Incorporated	Posted - 2010.04.22 22:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Lord Helghast Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Dev Blog Note: Any check made from an entity to itself resolves in excellent standings When advertising a fleet based on statndings, which standing is used to decide if the fleet is available: highest, lowest, or most personal? Does this mean that all fleets advertised based on standings will always be available to the entire corp/alliance because the standings (from your corp/alliance to any corp-mate/alliance-mate) always resolve to excellent. i think thats how it will be, and dont really see the issue, i mean when wud u want a fleet in fleet finder thats allowed to +5's but not from your alliance? I can think of a certain mercenary alliance that operates completely at the corp level except for a common pool of war decs. I imagine they might have a problem here.

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.22 22:18:00 - [37] Originally by: Mithfindel Quote: 8. Not a change but a handy note to have here: NPC corporations do not have corporate contacts, nor do corporations who do not belong to an alliance have an access to an alliance contact list. Wait, what? Three points: - Contacts = standings + contacts list for players? So is it corp contacts = standings? If so, x Nerf to corporate jump clones? x Corps cannot set standings on an alliance? Might be reading wrong... could just well be that NPC corp standings are done on the fly (I assume that currently they are calculated during the downtime and set as standings, though no idea about the actual implementation) and that corps can't see friendly alliances' lists (in Eve Gate). Basically, each character, corporation and alliance have separate standings/contact lists. Whats being said above is that a corporation without an alliance doesn't have access to an alliance list.. because, well, it isn't in an alliance And a NPC corp doesn't have one either, because there is no player to set it.

Ephemeral Waves Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2010.04.22 22:23:00 - [38] Originally by: CCP Karuck By default I think our privacy settings are pretty safe, unless you have high standings already towards people you don't want to see your information on EVE Gate. That's why you should go now and clean up your standings list. Also remember that we are now using standings more, and for more things than just EVE Gate settings, as detailed in the blog. People are also forgetting one important thing. Even though you can see contacts of people on EVE Gate, you don't see what the standings are.. so it could be Excellent or Terrible :) If I set a pirate or ISK spammer to Terrible, it doesn't mean I want to be his friend. I don't care how "safe" you think they are. If you are going to force us to be listed on this program, the default should be "show nothing to anybody". Not that it matters anymore anyway. You lot already screwed the pooch by having all of that information open and free to view on the test site and the privacy settings still can't be changed over there so anybody that wanted to data-mine EvE-Gate probably already did.
Don Pellegrino The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.04.22 22:53:00 - [39] Outlaw being above blue by default is one of those "WTF were they thinking" problems in the game, along with the Trash it button just beside Make Active. I can't even recall how many incidents it has caused, how many corp relationships and tears it has caused. I just can't believe you guys don't realize why it is bad. Please, please, please, while you are reworking standings, fix that.

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.22 23:02:00 - [40] Originally by: Ephemeral Waves Originally by: CCP Karuck By default I think our privacy settings are pretty safe, unless you have high standings already towards people you don't want to see your information on EVE Gate. That's why you should go now and clean up your standings list. Also remember that we are now using standings more, and for more things than just EVE Gate settings, as detailed in the blog. People are also forgetting one important thing. Even though you can see contacts of people on EVE Gate, you don't see what the standings are.. so it could be Excellent or Terrible :) If I set a pirate or ISK spammer to Terrible, it doesn't mean I want to be his friend. I don't care how "safe" you think they are. If you are going to force us to be listed on this program, the default should be "show nothing to anybody". Not that it matters anymore anyway. You lot already screwed the pooch by having all of that information open and free to view on the test site and the privacy settings still can't be changed over there so anybody that wanted to data-mine EvE-Gate probably already did. That data was not "open and free", and only available for a short time. It was visible only to people already on your standings list, the default threshold was just too low. Sure, there was the potential to datamine with the mutual standings list if you did it in a very specific way, but since you can't see if that standing is positive or negative, I'd be surprised if anyone managed to collect any amount of useful data from it. We also closed down the mutual list pretty quickly, and later on we even wiped all contacts data on Singularity, and it's been that way since.. so it doesn't really matter that you can't currently save privacy settings there. Full privacy settings are included in a new build that goes out next week, along with a lot of feature work, fixes and optimizations.

iP0D	Posted - 2010.04.22 23:25:00 - [41] Originally by: CCP Karuck Edited by: CCP Karuck on 22/04/2010 20:20:04 Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: CCP Karuck showinfo ingame shows the same thing.. so we are not exposing anything new. That's not the problem though. The problem is that evegate is much more accessible for a spider. You can't launch a spider at the eve client to extract a database of pilots and their corps. However, it's trivial to do just that with evegate. I'm very much aware of that. You could create macros for the client as well, but this makes the information more accessible.. which is also one of the reasons for creating EVE Gate in the first place. EVE Gate will become much more than just a social networking site, and in the first version you can access your EVE mail, calendar and contacts. Plan is to integrate even more gameplay features into EVE Gate and in a sense make it an alternative game client, just don't expect to fly and shoot up other players there.. Edit: Oh, you could crawl these forums as well.. they show your corp don't they? The social networking part of the site is for the most part a waste of time until you provide integration with external long existing and established third party social networks which predate even the potential or selective need for such a phenomenon in EVE with quite a few years. The only parts of real relevance to the immersion, are the parts that provide an open accessibility to in game affairs through planning and automation of communication. Compare this to the extreme efforts players have undertaken over the years to effectively already create evegate functionality and far beyond. Let's keep in mind that historically it is the immersion which sells and binds, and not the shiny of the marketing. Shiny attracts, to a degree, but retention is far more important. I'm getting the idea that we're going to get lost again in iterations here, let's keep in mind how that is a tendency which has risen to be a trend in recent years. No disrespect, but do not expect subscribers to take any statement of iterations serious until the moment they are effectively open to preview. Planetary Interaction is a wonderful recent example here. We'd love to take a word for it, and a lot of subscribers know how hard it is to balance the worlds of marketing, management and development from their own experience, but this is EVE. We've seen the ratio at which iterations make 180 degree turns (so to speak), are bled dry, or loose initiative. Don't misunderstand me, EVE is awesome, but there's only so many times a product can make commitments until reception changes its perspective. Aside of this, there is a little phenomenon called metagaming. It's always been with us, but it has always required quite a bit of work and ingenuity. Most of all, it has always required extensive investments in manpower and time. The references to the ability of currently being able to obtain all the mentioned insights aren't exactly valid. Far from. It's a simple observation really. Sure, we understand you're proud of the product, but there's two things pretty visible already. 1. There are people who really see no bone in a default enabled evegate, for whatever reason. It's very simple and a sign of both respect, concern and appreciation to take such phenomena into account and thus turn it around. Let the default be opt-out, so that those who want to engage in evegate can do so, without exposing the ones who don't want to dabble in it and are not bothered by it. 2. In common and existing social networks there is a lot of information on subscribers which is hidden or blank by default, for obvious reasons of privacy, control and abuse. The analogy to EVE with Evegate is quite apparent. Applying a blanket policy along these lines is not healthy. It's akin to a Hyves displaying all information from the start without waiting for the subscriber to even fill it in, select what to show, to whom andsoforth. Opt-out, by default.
Dragon Greg	Posted - 2010.04.22 23:32:00 - [42] Originally by: CCP Karuck That data was not "open and free", and only available for a short time. It was visible only to people already on your standings list, the default threshold was just too low. Sure, there was the potential to datamine with the mutual standings list if you did it in a very specific way, but since you can't see if that standing is positive or negative, I'd be surprised if anyone managed to collect any amount of useful data from it. We also closed down the mutual list pretty quickly, and later on we even wiped all contacts data on Singularity, and it's been that way since.. so it doesn't really matter that you can't currently save privacy settings there. Full privacy settings are included in a new build that goes out next week, along with a lot of feature work, fixes and optimizations. Can't you see what a disrespectful viewpoint that is? You're effectively talking about customer privacy here. The fact that it relates to a gaming environment does not mean you can make statements which are awfully similar to how Telco's used to approach customer records and privacy concerns before regulations were put in place. It's a principle case. And, come on man This is EVE, I would think that CCP has learned to never, ever, ever, underestimate the commitment to insanity and excess of its subscribers. You just do not take chances with that. Either way, we've been going over this in our alliance, and it's pretty simple for us as well. It's a concept of privacy, regardless of the metagaming. Doesn't matter that it's about characters, it's about people and their characters. Not to mention the kind of damage not having an opt-out by default will do to in game affairs (so much for making people work for the value of information, also btw, macro the client? Did you put that out there in the open?), or the simple principality of privacy.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.23 00:29:00 - [43] There is only one change that matters with respect to the entirety of Eve Gate: IF YOU SELECT WAR TARGETS (STATE) ON YOUR OVERVIEW AND REMOVE ALL OTHERS (STATES), WILL ONLY WAR TARGETS SHOW UP? If this doesn't work, your entire effort is a waste of time. Yes, call caps is necessary. I'm betting you didn't fix it. Am I right? - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Cinori Aluben Minmatar Gladiators of Rage Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.04.23 00:30:00 - [44] Edited by: Cinori Aluben on 23/04/2010 00:31:51 Good devblog, and decent responses to thread so far. Some improved organization and manageability will come out of these standings changes. It's a relatively minor change in the grand spectrum of the game, but has very far reaching potential. A few little features that improve social networking within game too - e.g.- notifications of adding people to your contact list. Yet another testimony to "Fix the Little Things First." It always makes the players happy when you improve the 'little' things, tighten the gameplay experience. Thus, that is my campaign message for MY CANDIDACY FOR CSM 2010. I must agree however that true caution needs to be given to the very LARGE change that is EVE Gate. Opting-out should be available. If not, default privacy settings should be "no pilots" until changed by the user. While I personally will take full advantage of EVE Gate, there is a large number of players who would not care to be a part of it at all, and forcing a profile page upon all active characters, along with open information if privacy settings are never changed, doesn't seem logical. The spider concern has existed since the first announcement of the "Cosmos" feature, and still exists. Remember that we're dealing with people who have tracked devs' IPs here, and many other interesting manipulations of coding. While against the EULA, doesn't mean it won't happen. Also, no one seems to have caught this yet, but 5.1+ should NOT default to excellent! Only 9.0+ should default to excellent. Think about the usage of 9.0-10.0 functionally in game currently, and why people would've set this high. This is the same functionality that "Excellent" will serve. Giving 5.1+ access to my cans, and then to all my Eve Gate stuff, is not a good idea. And please, there will be so many who don't check the devblogs, don't hear about the announcement, and will be totally thrown by this. Don't shaft them just bc they prefer to play than read. ------- Cinori Aluben -- CSM 2010!! "Fix the Little Things First!" --- www.littlethingsfirst.com

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.23 00:30:00 - [45] Using macros in client is a breach of the EULA and will get you banned, I was just using it as an example that some people do go that far.

LooknSee	Posted - 2010.04.23 00:45:00 - [46] 1) can we set personal standings to alliances now? 2) can we set standings at any level, personal/corp/alliance, to fw militias? thanks.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.23 00:53:00 - [47] Originally by: Bellum Eternus There is only one change that matters with respect to the entirety of Eve Gate: IF YOU SELECT WAR TARGETS (STATE) ON YOUR OVERVIEW AND REMOVE ALL OTHERS (STATES), WILL ONLY WAR TARGETS SHOW UP? If this doesn't work, your entire effort is a waste of time. Yes, call caps is necessary. I'm betting you didn't fix it. Am I right? CCP Karuk- The above- YES or NO? - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Draco Argen	Posted - 2010.04.23 01:23:00 - [48] Edited by: Draco Argen on 23/04/2010 01:23:29 I want to say a lot more, but for now (at 2:15 am) i will keep it simple. ...Re ordering of overview priority....F%%%ING BRILLIANT... Thank you sooooo much, for either listening, or for thinking. 10 points to Team "dealt with standings and overview" (name used in lue of actual team name. As for privacy concerns, CCP have listened to us against the legit concerns. The potential gold mine of "common contacts" was closed down quickly and rectified. Even if you think the privacy angle has not gone far enough, admit at least they have listened very intently. Hell they came to US first, in regards to corp<-> player data mining concerns. So stop whining. Battle Clinic is a far more dangerous tool for data mining, pilot locations and common hangouts, ship types, habits, corps, gang associations, and more.
Draco Argen	Posted - 2010.04.23 01:33:00 - [49] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Bellum Eternus There is only one change that matters with respect to the entirety of Eve Gate: IF YOU SELECT WAR TARGETS (STATE) ON YOUR OVERVIEW AND REMOVE ALL OTHERS (STATES), WILL ONLY WAR TARGETS SHOW UP? If this doesn't work, your entire effort is a waste of time. Yes, call caps is necessary. I'm betting you didn't fix it. Am I right? CCP Karuk- The above- YES or NO? I think perhaps you havent seen the detail in the screen shot, and significant little red arrow drawn on. If you want what you describe (Which honest to goodness i also REALLY do): A) untick all but at war standings B) and heres the new bit Click "Move up" on "at war" until its at the top. Voila, War or not is more important than any other thing! good huh. Its way better than simply fixing the bug, we can now redefine the importance we personally hold for our overview colour tags! eg When i'm in null sec i dont give a rats rear end about war, but i do about standings. Low sec haulers may care more about sec status than either war or standings, etc. Exactly what we needed. Hopefully CCP Karuk will back me up on this :) I'd like to know if these priorities are stored per tab, but I'll test on sisi shortly.
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.23 02:20:00 - [50] I'm sure this is nice stuff and all, and maybe some people out there will find it useful. I'm not one of those. I know that you're all about social integration and networking and blah blah blah. Yeah it'll be nice to read my mail out of Eve, that's +rep for you guys. On the other hand, I don't care about how many "contacts" I have, or if they're online, or if there's a super awesome whatever going on. I really couldn't care less, and if I did they'd send me one of those coolio mail things. Eve-Gate is much too much like Facebook for Eve. Complaining at this stage won't change the basic premise, but I guarantee you it's probably going to flop. It may be useful to 0.0 alliances, or corps with several hundred members, but to most of the Eve player base it's irrelevant. If you want to talk to someone, send them a message, but I sure as hell am not going to be reading status updates. It's not worth my time. I do all the social networking I want in-game. To be honest, I won't use Eve-Gate on principle. Eve's a game, not a lifestyle choice; I resent having it forced upon me when I'm not even playing.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.23 02:32:00 - [51] Originally by: Draco Argen I think perhaps you havent seen the detail in the screen shot, and significant little red arrow drawn on. If you want what you describe (Which honest to goodness i also REALLY do): A) untick all but at war standings B) and heres the new bit Click "Move up" on "at war" until its at the top. Voila, War or not is more important than any other thing! good huh. Its way better than simply fixing the bug, we can now redefine the importance we personally hold for our overview colour tags! eg When i'm in null sec i dont give a rats rear end about war, but i do about standings. Low sec haulers may care more about sec status than either war or standings, etc. Exactly what we needed. Hopefully CCP Karuk will back me up on this :) I'd like to know if these priorities are stored per tab, but I'll test on sisi shortly. Edit: I'd hate to eat my words here, but i not the move up and down aren't on the filters tab....CCP please rescue me here and say its ok, i may cry. See, the really sad part about this is that from your post I know for a fact you haven't fought a day in your life in an Empire war. I think perhaps you have't seen the detail in the screen shot and are distracted by the stupid little red arrow when in fact you should be comparing what tab is being shown and what is currently available on SISI vs. TQ. It is the APPEARANCE tab, not the STATES tab that is being shown, and we can ALREADY move the order up and down as we see fit for DISPLAYING what we want to show up on our overview. DISPLAY does NOT AFFECT what is shown on the overview (as states do), it simply governs what symbology is displayed at what priority. This has ZERO to do with whether or not unchecking everything except war targets (state) will correctly display ALL war targets and nothing else (currently, this isn't the case). SO WHAT WOULD BE REALLY AWESOME is if someone who knows what they're talking about (I'd say a CCP dev, but sadly I don't think that simply being a dev qualifies as 'knowing what you're talking about') would #1 tell me if this issue is fixed (I doubt it) and #2 if it's not fixed then why not and when is it going to be rectified? - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Caldari 5 Amarr The Element Syndicate Hand That Feeds	Posted - 2010.04.23 02:53:00 - [52] I for one would prefer SHOW NO PILOT to be default, otherwise I have to set everyone -tive prior to deployment, so I can fix everything after deployment and then put them back. Also I thought that we had proved the point that we NEED more than 5 Classifications, I use 21 Classifications at personal level, I think I only use 4 at Corp Level (WAR, HATE, OK and Friends). I have this feeling that I'm going to C&Ping into a heap of Toons, Notes about why the **** I hate/like them, making it a heap more data in the database (I know that a STRING, takes up allot more space than a INT or DOUBLE)
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.23 03:13:00 - [53] Originally by: Caldari 5 I for one would prefer SHOW NO PILOT to be default, otherwise I have to set everyone -tive prior to deployment, so I can fix everything after deployment and then put them back. Also I thought that we had proved the point that we NEED more than 5 Classifications, I use 21 Classifications at personal level, I think I only use 4 at Corp Level (WAR, HATE, OK and Friends). I have this feeling that I'm going to C&Ping into a heap of Toons, Notes about why the ** I hate/like them, making it a heap more data in the database (I know that a STRING, takes up allot more space than a INT or DOUBLE) I for one think that only 5 levels is far too little granularity, even at corp and alliance level. I use standings a LOT to sort through massive numbers of players in order to get a good tactical picture. Of course, local shouldn't be used as an intel tool, but whatever. - Originally by:** Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2010.04.23 03:39:00 - [54] Will we be able to add anyone to our address book/contracts to see when they come online/logoff as before (without them giving permission or whatever)? This is quite useful for war dec, killing ratters etc.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:05:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Karuck Edit: Oh, you could crawl these forums as well.. they show your corp don't they? Only if you specifically enable it. You have to visit the forum settings and enable it before anyone can see it.
Matterick Boon Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:29:00 - [56] Edited by: Matterick Boon on 23/04/2010 06:31:26 Edited by: Matterick Boon on 23/04/2010 06:29:07 Quote: -10 <= old standing < -5 becomes TERRIBLE (-10) -5 <= old standing < 0 becomes BAD (-5) Old standing = 0 or no standings entry becomes NEUTRAL (0) 0 < old standing <= 5 becomes GOOD (5) 5 < old standing <= 10 become EXCELLENT (10) shouldn't that be -10 <= old standing > -5 becomes TERRIBLE (-10) -5 <= old standing > 0 becomes BAD (-5) Old standing = 0 or no standings entry becomes NEUTRAL (0) 0 > old standing <= 5 becomes GOOD (5) 5 > old standing <= 10 become EXCELLENT (10) or am i just confused? EDIT: nm i was just confused by the wording.
Mkah Mvet Chumly Incorporated Beyond-Control	Posted - 2010.04.23 06:45:00 - [57] Hate it. Hate everything about it. What I hate most about it is that I have zero faith in the 'security' of the spacebook system. Remember when you guys screwed up on the first public beta and were basically giving everything away on the site if you typed something like 'test.evegate.com/player_name/'? I don't trust you guys not to do something incredibly stupid like that again. There's a lot of stupid, half-assed crap being put out by CCP the last couple expansions with assurances that they could in theory improve it later, which never gets done. I don't want my characters searchable outside of the client. I don't want people to 'show info' on my characters outside of the client. I want to be completely 100% opted out of your crappy half-assed (because most everything CCP has done the past 2 years has been half-assed) attempt to capitalize on a web trend. I feel you people don't respect your customers. I feel like you're bragging about it in your dev blogs, and not just about this 'feature.' In all honesty this spacebook crap could be a useful tool, (even half-assed) and there are features of it I want to use, but I already feel violated as a customer. Quick everyone, cancel your subscriptions before CCP starts publishing your credit card numbers!
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.04.23 07:51:00 - [58] Originally by: CCP Karuck Edit: Oh, you could crawl these forums as well.. they show your corp don't they? For the forums to show someone's corp, that person has to explicitly set the forum to show the corporation. In fact, for the forums to reveal someone's existance at all requires them to post on the forums. As for EVE Gate's mineability... Perhaps it's better this way. With the treshold for datamining lowered, the data will be mined by more than just those with the ingenuity to figure out how to mine it from the client... - Paknac Queltel
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.04.23 09:09:00 - [59] Ah, it is going to be good to know the name of each and every member of a small industrial high sec based corporation when I want to grief the heck out of them. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Online Lorebook
oil Double-L	Posted - 2010.04.23 09:12:00 - [60] make it so that no info shows up on my chars except in cases where i ecplicitely tell the site to do it. opt in not opt out. i dont want my alts visible. they are all on my buddylist (for ease of isk transfer merely) your argument, that no standing is visible is UNIMPORTANT. the mere fact that a char is in my buddylist is a valuable information that noone should have access to except if i explicitely want to and i cant come up with ANY situation, where that would be useful.
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.04.23 11:08:00 - [61] Please make spacebook functionality opt-in, not opt-out.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.23 11:17:00 - [62] Edited by: chatgris on 23/04/2010 11:25:50 Default privacy settings should be NO PILOTS! From the sounds of it, alliance/corp set NAPS will show up as excellent standing (and since you merged contacts and standings, everyone there will be a mutual contact if their alliance blued you back!?) Therefore, all it takes is one person in your corp to slip up and leave the default settings as they are, then your NAP partners can pretty much see all your corp standings via the mutual stuff? Even if I'm wrong, unless you've really thought this through: Eve standings are a mechanism for target identification: Trying to bastardize that into some spacebook thing (we can already use facebook if we want to) is just going to lead to headaches. The rallying cry: OPT-IN NOT OPT-OUT! BEFORE THIS GOES ON SISI ON THE 27th! One final note: Yes, you've got some forum minority (since IIRC most people don't check the forums) whining on the forums about this: But the fact that we're already on the forums shows that we're already some of the MOST SOCIAL people in eve! We're not angry sociopathic hermits trying to nuke your nice "lets find friends" spacebook page - We're social players seeing you take a mechanism for war (who do I shoot, and who do I not, and many times your "not shoot" are not friends) and turning that into a social networking site.

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.23 11:52:00 - [63] EVE Gate only uses personal standings for privacy and security checks, your corp or alliance contact lists don't affect EVE Gate at all. Regarding that 5 levels are not enough for personal standings and you need folders back, I can tell you this: Post release we will create labels for contacts, which will allow you to group your contacts any way you like. It will basically be the same system you see in mail already. We do not have a time frame for this feature yet, but summer-ish is a safe bet.

Sowaatua Nega Anuran Origin Holding Anuran Origin	Posted - 2010.04.23 11:57:00 - [64] One thing, though... Does that mean that NAP members will have same colour as alliance members? Not my prefered option, I must say. I do not hold people I have influence on/know of the same standing as people I don't. But suppose that depends on what you understand by NAP. NAP as the word says, or rather "Coalition"? Mostly curious, slightly anxious.
Maya Lingno	Posted - 2010.04.23 12:01:00 - [65] Edited by: Maya Lingno on 23/04/2010 12:01:24 Hi CCp and dev`s and who else ever... I`m not interested in such "social Networking give all informations away things" I`m not planig to log in in EvE gate or so And i dont want any Informations about or from me (in and outgame) there So, will there be an way to avoid any infos getting there?
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.04.23 12:28:00 - [66] Originally by: CCP Karuck Post release we will create labels for contacts, which will allow you to group your contacts any way you like. ... We do not have a time frame for this feature yet, but summer-ish is a safe bet. I'm speechless. I think all kinds of bad things (the worst things really) about your collective (in)ability to code and design interfaces but even I did not believe you would dare to release it without an ability to group contacts. You really must have a SCRUM team tasked exclusively to create major annoyances and bugs, find the last working features and break them, too. Seems to be the only one of your teams actually doing its work like it should. Please ban me, saves me finding the cancel subscription button...
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.04.23 12:32:00 - [67] Originally by: oil make it so that no info shows up on my chars except in cases where i ecplicitely tell the site to do it. THIS
Paknac Queltel Standards and Practices	Posted - 2010.04.23 13:00:00 - [68] Originally by: CCP Karuck We do not have a time frame for this feature yet, but summer-ish is a safe bet. Given the relative simplicity of this feature, can we assume the problem is not "we don't know how long this will take" but "we don't know when we'll get around to doing it"? - Paknac Queltel
Jarne Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vivisection.	Posted - 2010.04.23 13:00:00 - [69] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton Please make spacebook functionality opt-in, not opt-out. Yeah, please do. Everything else is silly. Also two points about the change: 1.) You are changing alliance "standings" to a number between -10 and 10, so it get's inline with corporate standings. You are changing personal standing to the discrete system... WTF? Ever heard about consistency? Why not just make personal standings the same. If you know of some basic software design idioms (but maybe you don't?) this will make better code... (code reuse) 2.) So outpost calculations (docking, fees etc.) are based on the HIGHEST of the three possible standings from outpost (corp or alliance, depending on the outpost settings) to the person willing to dock/use services etc. What if I as an outpost holder like an alliance but don't like a particular corporation or person in that alliance? I see standings towards a corp as a specialization of the standing towards that corps alliance. So if corp standing is set, it should override alliance standing, not take the highest of the two. At last, I can allow one corporation of an alliance to dock while the rest isn't allowed to, but I can't deny one corporation the docking rights if I granted them to the alliance. Time to finally change that. - Success=Achievements/Expectations
Dragon Greg	Posted - 2010.04.23 13:31:00 - [70] Originally by: CCP Karuck EVE Gate only uses personal standings for privacy and security checks, your corp or alliance contact lists don't affect EVE Gate at all. Regarding that 5 levels are not enough for personal standings and you need folders back, I can tell you this: Post release we will create labels for contacts, which will allow you to group your contacts any way you like. It will basically be the same system you see in mail already. We do not have a time frame for this feature yet, but summer-ish is a safe bet. What is so hard to understand here. Privacy > all. It's a principle point of origin for any considerations. It's given even more weight because of the nature of EVE and the gameplay it furthers in excess. Let me put it this way. What would be the exact problem with having Opt-out as the default state. Obviously aside of how such a principle does not go well with marketing concepts. We're talking functionality here. What is in the way of doing it the right way. On the second point, please avoid references to iterations and such
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.23 13:38:00 - [71] Edited by: chatgris on 23/04/2010 13:45:30 Originally by: CCP Karuck EVE Gate only uses personal standings for privacy and security checks, your corp or alliance contact lists don't affect EVE Gate at all. I am very glad to hear that. However, the idea of merging target identification and friends is still very flawed, for example: I have friends who were in the Gallente militia with me, who later joined pirate alliances. These people are set red to me for target identification (in fleets we'll often shoot at each other, and blues are off the combat overview), but we still share chat channels and in fact we will often informally help each other out in space away from our respective groups. These people I would love to add to eve gate in a social networking fashion, but not expose my in game target selection to. These are the people I talk to. Similarly, the differentiation between dark blue and light blue is used for many many things: Space controlling entities may have light blue for people who are allowed to pass through a system, and dark blue for ratting/mining privileges. These people are NOT friends, you don't want them gathering intel on you with these standings being used in spacebook. Maybe you've got a gentleman's agreement with a militia war target and you've set their neutral logistics blue. There are endless uses for these settings. TL;DR what is the effect of merging target identification and social networking? You are forcing people to choose between IN GAME functionality (playing the game), and social networking. Guess what most people will choose? Target identification. The mantra will be "NO PILOTS NO PILOTS NO PILOTS". In summary, merging in game targets and friends means - Choosing between social networking and playing the game -- To use both, you are taking away the ability to use dark blue in game for many things - Lots of intel leaked by people who don't understand all this. "NO PILOTS" will be the advice everyone gives people in newbie chat I know there's not time/no resources to change this, and there's probably tons of scenarios people haven't thought of - the safe option is NO PILOTS as default, and let us slowly understand and enable what we can safely enable without impacting our gameplay, instead of just forcing this on us - A race to the disable button after launch. Now that's I've shown what's wrong: The Solution? EVE GATE STANDINGS ARE INDEPENDENT OF IN GAME STANDINGS. Some of our best friends are often the people we shoot. I leave you with this: Just because we shoot someone does not mean they are not a good friend. Just because we have an agreement NOT to shoot someone does not mean they are even someone we remotely like.
Pwnzorator	Posted - 2010.04.23 14:03:00 - [72] Originally by: CCP Karuck Originally by: Latex Sandals You are forcing people to log onto this thing so that they can protect their privacy and that is illegal in many places and certainly illogical in any place. By default I think our privacy settings are pretty safe Bear in mind that some of us (me included) will have the entire database sc****d within an hour of the patch going live. You sure about those defaults?
Zendoren Aktaeon Industries United Star Federation	Posted - 2010.04.23 14:34:00 - [73] Quote: As your current alliance standings are set on a discrete level they map differently: NAP will become a solid ten and ENEMY a solid negative ten. COMPETITOR and FRIEND are then the negative five and positive five respectively. Any other Alliance or Ex-Alliance leader find something wrong with this statement???? CCP: I demand perfection, know your game better ROFL
Moresco I.D.I.O.T. Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.04.23 14:48:00 - [74] The basic idea of Eve Gate is quite fine. Publicising any kind of profile information by default is NOT as already mentioned. The possibility to spy and datamine Accounts not using Eve Gate (reason-independently) is just the tip of the iceberg only. Setting "No Pilots" by default to all settings should be obligatory in the interests of all pod pilots, especially to the ones not using or knowing Eve Gate. Just my 2 cents...

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.23 15:09:00 - [75] Obviously a FRIEND relationship is above a NAP. I believe most of us have an implicit non-aggression agreement with people we consider friends. Thank you for quickly spotting that and calling it out: Mea culpa. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:20:00 - [76] You know, it would be nice to get a response to this that has more meat to it than "Yeah we know your concerns, but it won't happen", because I don't buy that BS for a second.
Ping Bong	Posted - 2010.04.24 04:20:00 - [77] i still dont get what eve gate is about but from the pics it looks like eve-facebook thing which is liek lol.
ULTImatio	Posted - 2010.04.24 06:45:00 - [78] Edited by: ULTImatio on 24/04/2010 06:46:43 I need my contact folders back NOW. What is wrong with you at CCP man? You think I know which pilot is which pilots ALT from my head. You think I know the difference between old enemies or friends you totally nuts.
iP0D	Posted - 2010.04.24 08:16:00 - [79] Edited by: iP0D on 24/04/2010 08:16:36
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.24 08:35:00 - [80] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Bellum Eternus There is only one change that matters with respect to the entirety of Eve Gate: IF YOU SELECT WAR TARGETS (STATE) ON YOUR OVERVIEW AND REMOVE ALL OTHERS (STATES), WILL ONLY WAR TARGETS SHOW UP? If this doesn't work, your entire effort is a waste of time. Yes, call caps is necessary. I'm betting you didn't fix it. Am I right? CCP Karuk- The above- YES or NO? YES or NO? Still awaiting a dev reply please. Or do you only like answering the easy questions, and questions you have a 'yes' answer for? This one detail is extremely important to empire war participants everywhere. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.04.25 02:43:00 - [81] Originally by: iP0D The social networking part of the site is for the most part a waste of time until you provide integration with external long existing and established third party social networks which predate even the potential or selective need for such a phenomenon in EVE with quite a few years. Why do I need to allow EVE spies to gain access to my REAL name? This is EVE, a virtual world where we foster real grudges and genuine hate. No one is going to opt in they have to allow people their enemies and victims to stalk them genuinely to do it.
iP0D	Posted - 2010.04.25 09:26:00 - [82] Originally by: Kanatta Jing Originally by: iP0D The social networking part of the site is for the most part a waste of time until you provide integration with external long existing and established third party social networks which predate even the potential or selective need for such a phenomenon in EVE with quite a few years. Why do I need to allow EVE spies to gain access to my REAL name? This is EVE, a virtual world where we foster real grudges and genuine hate. No one is going to opt in they have to allow people their enemies and victims to stalk them genuinely to do it. I know. But that wasn't the primary point. I should perhaps train Advanced Irony a level higher. Btw, you say "no one is going to opt in", you don't have a choice. It is enabled by default. Here's the thing. EVEgate is a case of reinventing the wheel, in a timeframe where players have already shown their absolute focus and drive to excess. It's social networking designed to function as both social networking and social engineering. The challenge of "privacy vs. virtual privacy" is largely irrelevant, since regardless of, it is a concept applied to clients, as such the default state should be off, until the client decides he or she wants to engage in it. Opt out enabled by default, so to speak. The reference to integration with external social networking frameworks wasn't aimed so much as linking the character to the human being behind it, but to function as an analogy. I probably missed the target there, considering your response. Btw, yeah, that would be horrible to see happen, but it will happen since it is part of player driven focus to tie the ends together in metagaming. It is a logical conclusion that we will datamine evegate and add on top any further networking finds. To think otherwise, is considering EVE's history pretty naive. Thing is, EVEgate is only interesting in the current format to serve as a communications framework parallel to existing frameworks. It's only interesting if it is passively adopted, since to leave out choice is to take quite a big risk in adoption of marketing inspired concepts. Some people call that "enforced", but that's a bit over the top imo. Either way, if it were opt out by default, it would have an insanely long adoption curve, even among new subscribers, and would end up being a niche product. Nothing wrong with that, EVE is a collection of such products, embedded in a larger framework of interaction. It's a matter of having a little faith in the product. Expanding on EVEgate means iterations. Something for which there just is no real basis of such faith anymore. It's unfortunate, but it is not an uncommon phenomenon. Regardless of this, EVEgate really should have had at least a secondary focus of being useful. Tangible direct use, beyond the presentation of concepts which may or may not be adopted by players. Right now, EVEgate does not compete on this level with any of the solutions to communication / automation / administration that players themselves have put together over time. So what's left of EVEgate when you take such feature sets out of both the equasion and the potential? Nothing more then a Facebook for metagaming.
Keen Linden Special Service	Posted - 2010.04.25 13:17:00 - [83] Edited by: Keen Linden on 25/04/2010 13:19:05 This whole concept is disingenuous and the fact you MUST be a member and MUST take action to protect your information is complete BS. What kind of bright ideas do you have about selling us junk and posting advertisements on this crap? Because that is what this whole system is really about, right? I mean, why go to all the trouble of making something that has nothing to do with your game, if your not planning on soaking us for some more cash. And like others have said, where is all this follow-up development you keep promising? Remember when wormholes were the big news. What did you do to follow up on development of WH space or fix their bugs? How is T3 ship development coming along? You haven't fixed stupid UI problems in existing systems that go back to Red Moon, but now you're going to start a web social site? Is that going to let you post some marketing BS about how cutting edge you are? Take a good hard look at yourselves. You are not as clever as you think you are.
Evan Batarr	Posted - 2010.04.26 09:38:00 - [84] Originally by: CCP Gecko All three drop downs have the "No Pilots" option. Note, as states above, all information that is already available in the "Show Info" window will be available to all players using EVE Gate as it is available in game. You are aware that this "feature" makes it easy to crawl all these data - which isn't possible with the same IG-data? Making it pretty easy to find out all the members of a company by name. I still want an opt-out for those who don't want to jump this idiotic social media bandwagon.

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.26 13:51:00 - [85] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Bellum Eternus There is only one change that matters with respect to the entirety of Eve Gate: IF YOU SELECT WAR TARGETS (STATE) ON YOUR OVERVIEW AND REMOVE ALL OTHERS (STATES), WILL ONLY WAR TARGETS SHOW UP? If this doesn't work, your entire effort is a waste of time. Yes, call caps is necessary. I'm betting you didn't fix it. Am I right? CCP Karuk- The above- YES or NO? YES or NO? Still awaiting a dev reply please. Or do you only like answering the easy questions, and questions you have a 'yes' answer for? This one detail is extremely important to empire war participants everywhere. I haven't replied simply because I do not know the answer to your question. I have forwarded it to another dev which should reply to you shortly.

Seth Ruin Minmatar Ominous Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.04.26 15:28:00 - [86] Originally by: Evan Batarr Edited by: Evan Batarr on 26/04/2010 09:58:44 Edited by: Evan Batarr on 26/04/2010 09:47:37 Originally by: CCP Gecko All three drop downs have the "No Pilots" option. Note, as states above, all information that is already available in the "Show Info" window will be available to all players using EVE Gate as it is available in game. You are aware that this "feature" makes it easy to crawl all these data - which isn't possible with the same IG-data? Making it pretty easy to find out all the members of a company by name. Okay, and? I'm failing to see why this is a security risk.
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2010.04.26 17:50:00 - [87] Originally by: Seth Ruin ...I'm failing to see why this is a security risk. Because, making a bot to mine data from Eve Gate is a thousand times easier than a bot to mine data straight from Eve... plus it wouldn't be breaking the EULA (or at least, it wouldn't be so obviously breaking it). ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).
Seth Ruin Minmatar Ominous Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.04.26 19:15:00 - [88] Originally by: Marchocias Originally by: Seth Ruin ...I'm failing to see why this is a security risk. Because, making a bot to mine data from Eve Gate is a thousand times easier than a bot to mine data straight from Eve... plus it wouldn't be breaking the EULA (or at least, it wouldn't be so obviously breaking it). Right, I understand it would make it easier and all, but... So? What advantage do I have by having a list of characters in a corporation? Considering you can already set standings to an entire corporation (thus you are alerted in local and by overview) and you can already see a member count in the corporation information.
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.26 19:56:00 - [89] Originally by: Seth Ruin Originally by: Marchocias Originally by: Seth Ruin ...I'm failing to see why this is a security risk. Because, making a bot to mine data from Eve Gate is a thousand times easier than a bot to mine data straight from Eve... plus it wouldn't be breaking the EULA (or at least, it wouldn't be so obviously breaking it). Right, I understand it would make it easier and all, but... So? What advantage do I have by having a list of characters in a corporation? Considering you can already set standings to an entire corporation (thus you are alerted in local and by overview) and you can already see a member count in the corporation information. Because knowing their name lets you run locators on every single one of them, and knowing when every single one of them is online, at what times.
gargars	Posted - 2010.04.26 20:25:00 - [90] Originally by: Latex Sandals EvE-Gate needs to be Opt-IN. Not Opt-out. You are forcing people to log onto this thing so that they can protect their privacy and that is illegal in many places and certainly illogical in any place. I agree with this. I find the idea of my information showing unless I take the time (or even know of a need to) go block it is pretty outrageous. It doesn't matter if some CCP person (or anyone else) thinks this is an over-reaction... it's my info and my decision... not something I should have to fix because CCP just decides it's ok to do.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.27 08:13:00 - [91] Originally by: CCP Karuck I haven't replied simply because I do not know the answer to your question. I have forwarded it to another dev which should reply to you shortly. Thank you for the reply. Second- I apologize for being a dck about it. I need to work on that. - Originally by:* Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.27 08:33:00 - [92] Bellum: After spending some time ensuring that the colour tags and icons worked properly I finally figured out why you kept capitalizing STATE there. Long time no see obscure and useless tab. We weren't really changing the overview in this as much as it was indirectly affected by the addition of new floating point alliance standings so it wasn't forgotten as much as never scoped in. However, I'm not going to pretend it's not nuts and it seems like it seems to be a case that easy enough to handle (and having said this it obviously will not be). However, as it is not directly related to our feature (at least I'm quite certain I cannot make a case for that to already overbooked managers of the disciplines in question) I'm going to have to be a spoil-sport and promise you it will not change for the initial release of Tyrannis. But I will create a defect on myself and, if the hamster-gods allow, I will find time to pull it in as soon as possible. P.S. Are half my message always in parenthesis? ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Irongut H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.04.27 10:51:00 - [93] Originally by: CCP Karuck By default I think our privacy settings are pretty safe, unless you have high standings already towards people you don't want to see your information on EVE Gate. That's why you should go now and clean up your standings list. NO. I have standings set to a number of people who I used to fly with in corporations long gone, alts of friends in my current corp, etc. I have no interest in EVE Gate. I do not want the people I have blue to be able to see who each other are. I do not want people in my corp to see who my personal blues are. Some of them may not be friends with each other, some of them may even be enemies. I should not have to adjust my standings, they do what I want them to do atm. YOU are the ones introducing features which threaten the privacy and security of myself and my contacts so YOU should make this opt in. Learn a lesson from Google's screw up with Buzz and make EVE Gate opt in from the start. Do not repeat such an obvious, high profile and costly mistake. --

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.04.27 15:07:00 - [94] New build of EVE Gate is up and open for public testing.

iP0D	Posted - 2010.04.27 18:03:00 - [95] Where's the opt-in / opt-out option?
Ephemeral Waves Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2010.04.28 01:24:00 - [96] Originally by: CCP Karuck New build of EVE Gate is up and open for public testing. You've still got default privacy settings allowing people to see my settings and there is no opt-out option.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.28 03:02:00 - [97] Edited by: chatgris on 28/04/2010 03:04:14 Originally by: Ephemeral Waves Originally by: CCP Karuck New build of EVE Gate is up and open for public testing. You've still got default privacy settings allowing people to see my settings and there is no opt-out option. This ^^. It's getting tiring to log on just to wipe all my contacts from Sisi on every mirror so they can't be mined for intel. On the plus side, checking evemail from the web browser is win, but being able to opt-out/not get opted-in by default is the first priority.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.28 03:13:00 - [98] Biggest issue: You are still trying to merge in game "Target Identification" with "Friend". "Friend" does not necessarily imply "Do Not Shoot" "Do Not Shoot" does not necessarily imply "Friend" You are introducing this "feature" that negatively impacts in game target identification if it is used. Eve gate should use separate, out of game standings.
Latex Sandals	Posted - 2010.04.28 05:00:00 - [99] Originally by: chatgris EDIT: Found the opt-out. In the top, there is a small link called "Profile Settings" click that, then you can select "No Pilots" on the leftmost drop-down box of the three rows of dropdown boxes. That's not opt-out. That's just privacy settings. Opt-out is "my character does not show up on evegate at all. ever. period."
Hun Jakuza Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2010.04.28 10:21:00 - [100] How about the 6 years old neutral overview settings bug ? When will CCP change it ? Annoying me when i removed neuts from overview everyone dissapear gate,wrecks,WTs etc.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.28 20:21:00 - [101] Originally by: CCP Prism X Bellum: After spending some time ensuring that the colour tags and icons worked properly I finally figured out why you kept capitalizing STATE there. Long time no see obscure and useless tab. We weren't really changing the overview in this as much as it was indirectly affected by the addition of new floating point alliance standings so it wasn't forgotten as much as never scoped in. However, I'm not going to pretend it's not nuts and it seems like it seems to be a case that easy enough to handle (and having said this it obviously will not be). However, as it is not directly related to our feature (at least I'm quite certain I cannot make a case for that to already overbooked managers of the disciplines in question) I'm going to have to be a spoil-sport and promise you it will not change for the initial release of Tyrannis. But I will create a defect on myself and, if the hamster-gods allow, I will find time to pull it in as soon as possible. P.S. Are half my message always in parenthesis? Prism X: THANK YOU for your reply, and if you can fix this you name will be worshiped in the temples of high sec war fighters everywhere for all eternity! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! CCP Karuck: Thank you as well for finding the correct person to help with this issue! - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Telorast Caldari The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 02:59:00 - [102] Will it be possible to link all your characters together somehow? Or do I have to redo all my settings on each character?
Wunop Girms	Posted - 2010.04.29 05:33:00 - [103] EVEGate Calendar: Please provide settings to adjust timezone and date format so that events can be scheduled using eve time or localtime. Please also remove the hideous mutant american date format from my sight and replace with ddmmyy.
Seth Ruin Minmatar Ominous Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.05.01 21:42:00 - [104] Originally by: Wunop Girms EVEGate Calendar: Please provide settings to adjust timezone and date format so that events can be scheduled using eve time or localtime. Please also remove the hideous mutant american date format from my sight and replace with ddmmyy. Or yyyymmdd... Or allow for localization.
wakalaka Information And Entropy	Posted - 2010.05.02 06:34:00 - [105] Edited by: wakalaka on 02/05/2010 06:34:36 Originally by: CCP Karuck EVE Gate only uses personal standings for privacy and security checks, your corp or alliance contact lists don't affect EVE Gate at all. Because of EVE Gate you will make people, various examples given in this thread and others, to rework their personal standings. Since you're putting personal standings at the service of Eve Gate. You're the designer and God, but maybe you should find a less intrusive way. Unless the new system will be soo convenient, but I don't see it yet. Quote: Regarding that 5 levels are not enough for personal standings and you need folders back, I can tell you this: Post release we will create labels for contacts, which will allow you to group your contacts any way you like. It will basically be the same system you see in mail already. We do not have a time frame for this feature yet, but summer-ish is a safe bet. I recommend strongly to include this at the final release. I thank you for bringing Eve Gate, though I still don't see how I can capitalize upon it as a trader that I cannot do already. But my contact lists are sacred secrets, and I don't like you messing with them. If I have them in the Eve Online address book, it's just because it let's me see when someone is online/offline, otherwise I wouldn't. Folders/tags for contact classification is important; the personal standing number isn't enough (or it was, until you dumbed down the quantification).
Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.05.04 01:59:00 - [106] They can keep the War target overview bugs for all I care. One of the things that is incredibly concerning for me is the complete removal of the ability to drag and drop contacts into re nameable folders. This is a HUGE nerf to intel gathering, and will hit War Declaration based corporations the hardest. On TQ I utilise different folders for a variety of things, Super Capital pilots, Falcon pilots, Diplomats, idiots who hotdrop in system x, members of corporation X. This is a massive loss and major setback for me, no longer will I pay able to watch a set of players online activities as easily, and will have to resort back to the regular notepad for storing names of future Wartargets etc, and you can pretty much forget everything else. Is there any plans to be able to have customisable folders where I can drag and drop contacts in, either the old system that exists now, or some new kind of system where you can add labels and tags to people. Because right now I am less than impressed. ---

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.04 11:23:00 - [107] Originally by: Suitonia Folders!! Explanation. Probably not the answer you were hoping for but at least it is an answer. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Suitonia Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.05.04 15:07:00 - [108] Thanks for the quick response. ---
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2010.05.13 13:41:00 - [109] Originally by: Latex Sandals EvE-Gate needs to be Opt-IN. Not Opt-out. You are forcing people to log onto this thing so that they can protect their privacy and that is illegal in many places and certainly illogical in any place. This. Originally by: Irongut NO. I have standings set to a number of people who I used to fly with in corporations long gone, alts of friends in my current corp, etc. I have no interest in EVE Gate. I do not want the people I have blue to be able to see who each other are. I do not want people in my corp to see who my personal blues are. Some of them may not be friends with each other, some of them may even be enemies. I should not have to adjust my standings, they do what I want them to do atm. YOU are the ones introducing features which threaten the privacy and security of myself and my contacts so YOU should make this opt in. Learn a lesson from Google's screw up with Buzz and make EVE Gate opt in from the start. Do not repeat such an obvious, high profile and costly mistake. And this. CCP, correct it. _______ With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made. We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have. - John Smedley, CEO of Sony Online Entertainment
shady trader	Posted - 2010.05.15 22:25:00 - [110] Since you have made it auto opt in with no full opt out. Will we have the option to set out contact preferences before this goes live? Other then altering our standings as a temporary measure before it goes live then blocking everyone from seeing our contact list after it goes live? I can see a bigger scramble to get on eve gate then normally seen try and log into eve after patch deployment. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions.
DJ Skrull Caldari We Are The Walrus	Posted - 2010.05.16 06:40:00 - [111] Hey, so I was reading the blog and I came across this little nugget: "What do my personal standings do in game? Anyone who youæve set to excellent standings has free add/remove access to your jet-cans." So does this mean that from now on, only pilots you've set to excellent standings can access your jet-can, effectively eliminating can-flipping?? My gut tells me no, but one can always hope. EVEntually
shady trader	Posted - 2010.05.16 12:50:00 - [112] Originally by: DJ Skrull Hey, so I was reading the blog and I came across this little nugget: "What do my personal standings do in game? Anyone who youæve set to excellent standings has free add/remove access to your jet-cans." So does this mean that from now on, only pilots you've set to excellent standings can access your jet-can, effectively eliminating can-flipping?? My gut tells me no, but one can always hope. No, it means that they can put items in (Something that is normally blocked) and take items out without being flagged for you to shoot at. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions.
Cigic	Posted - 2010.05.18 17:05:00 - [113] Another very good reason to stop playing eve for good. I guess marketing team concluded that "space" facebook will create more dollars than developing and protecting best pvp game machanics. Maybe thats good for my rl life so maybe I should thank you.
mkmin	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:35:00 - [114] Originally by: shady trader Originally by: DJ Skrull Hey, so I was reading the blog and I came across this little nugget: "What do my personal standings do in game? Anyone who youæve set to excellent standings has free add/remove access to your jet-cans." So does this mean that from now on, only pilots you've set to excellent standings can access your jet-can, effectively eliminating can-flipping?? My gut tells me no, but one can always hope. No, it means that they can put items in (Something that is normally blocked) and take items out without being flagged for you to shoot at. And it is yet another reason why Tyra is fail and why you should never ever ever set anyone as a personal blue with spacebook. If I find out my corp members have +10 personal blues, they are getting kicked from corp.
Trinity Chaw	Posted - 2010.05.22 13:41:00 - [115] Majority of peeps have iq around 100. So we should make verything in world that they feel in control or competent. Majority sounds and doesnt mean bigger market or more bucks. ccp had very nice targeted market of smarter and more adult peeps. You could have expanded slowly with business plan focused on your specific type of customers. Strategy that you've chosen will backfire to you guys. Cos wider market is not loyal. They will come and leave in large numbers, cos their expectations its easy to meet so your competiotion will be large. Youll lose as you are already losing your loyal customers and that will be the end of EVE. Proably cos deicion maker is not smartest guy himself or just greedy and short term focused.
Esker Sheep	Posted - 2010.05.26 11:24:00 - [116] Originally by: Cigic Edited by: Cigic on 18/05/2010 17:41:56 Another very good reason to stop playing eve for good. I guess marketing team concluded that "space" facebook will create more dollars than developing and protecting best pvp game machanics. Maybe thats good for my rl life so maybe I should thank you. -another proof that market driven economy, globalism and democracy hurt lot of peeps Whilst I can understand why some people won't have a use for EVE GATE, I'm don't understand the vitriolic opposition to its existence. I'm looking forward to being able to manage my EVE mail from outside the game. I have limited play time, but can spare a few minutes to check and respond to mails. This means that I can be involved in corp matters, even without being logged in. I'm hoping that this is just the start and that it will become possible to carry out all manner of station bound activities from EVE gate. Things like managing skills, orders, manufacturing etc. Wouldn't it benefit everyone if they didn't have to fire up the full EVE client just to change a skill, or send a mail?
mkmin	Posted - 2010.05.26 14:15:00 - [117] Originally by: Esker Sheep Originally by: Cigic Edited by: Cigic on 18/05/2010 17:41:56 Another very good reason to stop playing eve for good. I guess marketing team concluded that "space" facebook will create more dollars than developing and protecting best pvp game machanics. Maybe thats good for my rl life so maybe I should thank you. -another proof that market driven economy, globalism and democracy hurt lot of peeps Whilst I can understand why some people won't have a use for EVE GATE, I'm don't understand the vitriolic opposition to its existence. I'm looking forward to being able to manage my EVE mail from outside the game. I have limited play time, but can spare a few minutes to check and respond to mails. This means that I can be involved in corp matters, even without being logged in. I'm hoping that this is just the start and that it will become possible to carry out all manner of station bound activities from EVE gate. Things like managing skills, orders, manufacturing etc. Wouldn't it benefit everyone if they didn't have to fire up the full EVE client just to change a skill, or send a mail? Letting people do market orders and manufacturing in failbook gives some people an unfair advantage. It means people who don't have access to a high end phone, or who don't work a desk job won't be able to play video games all day and won't be able to compete. It means there will be ever decreasing profit margins and be a major nerf to the industrial field. But that's not what really bugs me. What bugs me most about failbook is CCPs attitude amounting to 'youz all my bichuz and iz gonna doo wutz I sez cuz i haz ur muniez.' They are not creating a social interaction tool. They are not creating a time management tool. They are creating a griefing tool. It's a way for pirates, hackers, gankers, and griefers to gather full intel on YOU. They will know where YOU are, who your friends are, and your activity patterns whenever they want and will be able to come and hunt YOU down and kill YOU. And CCP is supporting this. CCP already fukt it up and published everyone's API info once through failbook, proving their incompetence in web programming and in their complete lack of concern about customer privacy. Failbook is the kind of mistake that makes games die, and with CCP's attitude about their customers they would deserve it.
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.26 16:24:00 - [118] Originally by: Isaac Starstriker Though that's pretty antisocial Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator

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