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Drastic13
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Posted - 2010.04.24 02:24:00 -
[1]
First of all, I am new to Eve (LOVE the game, already addicted for life). I am at about 1.5mil SP.
Well I got all fired up because I got a Hurricane and found a sweet Lvl 3 Quality 19 agent... I did about 3-4 missions last night with no real problems and I made some pretty nice cash for the first time in Eve. Then today, I start em up again and I get The Blockade... and I get totally owned. I couldn't kill more than 2-3 crusiers/destroyers each time without having to port out and go repair (which is costing me a TON!!!). Then to top it all off, once I had killed off everything in the first wave except the trigger and 3 Dire Pithii BC's... I had to just give up because I couldn't even get 1 of the BC's shields down before my tank was blown and I had to port out. Here's what I'm currently running:
[Hurricane, Hurricane: lvl 3 mission failer]
Damage Control I
Medium Automated I Carapace Restoration
Pneumatic Stabilization Actuator I
Pneumatic Stabilization Actuator I
Radioisotope Explosive Hardener I
Radioisotope Kinetic Hardener I
F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator
F-b10 Nominal Capacitor Regenerator
'Orion' Tracking CPU I (+range script)
'Orion' Tracking CPU I (+range script)
SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay
SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon (use fusion/emp/phased plasma)
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon
650mm Medium Prototype I Siege Cannon
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Hammerhead I x3
Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/38463-Hurricane-lvl-3-mission-failer.html#ixzz0lypogeFx
I know this loadout may not be perfect, but are there any changes you'd recommend that would made a LARGE difference? I'm just not so sure it's really a loadout issue. I have a feeling its more of a "I-have-crappy-level-skills" issue... is that true?
So at what SP should I be able to blow through Lvl 3's in a Hurricane without any problems at all? Does that like require a fully T2'ed Hurricane or what?
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DeMont Cruiser
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Posted - 2010.04.24 06:34:00 -
[2]
well, you probably should work on getting the ship fitted with T2 modules asap which means getting a higher skill level. You can also get other players to fleet with you to help with the tougher missions. Seems like you read and follow the advice of the mission reports to manage the triggers so that's a step in the right direction.
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.24 06:59:00 -
[3]
Blockade is a bit of a special L3 in that it's multiple times harder than most of the others... but you're really low skill BC pilot in an armour tanked ship, and you're fighting Guristas who spam endless kinetic damage missiles; your kill speed is very low, and your tank is also very low. Shield tanked 'cane is a bit more tolerant of newbies, but if you want to carry on armour tanking I'd suggest going back to level 2s & training some more first.
No matter what you do you're going to be slow as hell in level 3s, just concentrate on survival first.
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Khin'charin
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.24 07:00:00 -
[4]
Welcome to EVE-Online.
For starters.. from what I can tell, you are using explosive resists vs dread guristas?
They deal Kin/thermal damage.
Secondly, running an armour tank on a mission cane is, in my opinion, at least in most cases, subpar compared to using a passive shield tank.
Especially if you are low on cap skills and active tanking.
I have friends running even L4's in their passive canes.
Not that I'm suggesting such a behaviour for L4's though, just saying they do it. 
I just ripped this from Battleclinic.
I suggest you check it out.
 Quote:
[Hurricane, Hurricane: Logical Madness (720s) passive]
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Power Diagnostic System II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
720mm Howitzer Artillery II
SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay
SV-2000 Assault Missile Bay
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Warrior II
More fits on Battleclinic
_________________________________
More blood for the blood god.
Eternal darkness to the infidels. |
Party Scout
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Posted - 2010.04.24 13:10:00 -
[5]
Put an afterburner in there, and keep at optimal gun range from your enemies. In blockade, you will have a long trail of enemies behind you, but you can take your time killing them. The futher you are, the less they will hit you (and the better your arties hit).
Blockade lv3 takes a long time, but it is perfectly possible with your skills.
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THE SOP
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Posted - 2010.04.24 13:17:00 -
[6]
Blockade is probably the hardest lvl3 so dont lose heart, its tough trying to armor tank it unless you got the proper skills,the npcs can shoot you even if you have an after burner beccause of the range they have to do it, I would try two invuls (t2 if possible) instead.
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Faia Arashi
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Posted - 2010.04.24 13:22:00 -
[7]
It is hard to remember exactly when I started to solo L3s, but...
I know I did L3s before I started the alt account, the primary is well over 12 mil SP and the alt is just over 7 mil SP, so I would guesstimate 3 - 4 mil SP to solo most L3s in a Drake.
What I did for WC was to lock up as many targets as I could handle and then align to a station, the movement helps your tank more than would be obvious (even at a mere 150 m/sec) and you can stay longer when you know you will go to warp as soon as you click the dock button. If you can completely kill all of your first set of targets without having to bug out, incoming damage will probably be low enough to handle. Once you can get a good distance from your warp-in point, having the new spawns trigger way behind you also helps mitigate incoming damage.
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Drastic13
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Posted - 2010.04.24 16:10:00 -
[8]
Wow, thank you all so much. You guys have been EXTREMELY helpful! I am going to switch over to Passive Shield Tank right now - it's what I did in my Rupture, so it only makes sense. Btw, I actually am using kin/therm hardeners for this mission, the loadout just had generic stuff in place. Couple of questions:
1) Why Invuln Fields over missions specific resists?
2) What ammo should I be using? I usually use emp/fusion/phased plasma depending on the mission. Max range ammo seems like crappy dmg, but is it worth it?
3) Does anyone have any idea of roughly how far away these rats can hit me? I feel like if I take off the Range loaded tracking computers, then I am going to force myself to get in way too close with Arties... and while I may be kiting with an AB on, I will be dragging then really close behind me (still well within the rats' falloff where they're still pounding me hard)... is this way of thinking wrong?
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coeira
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Posted - 2010.04.24 16:50:00 -
[9]
you swap the invun fields for rat specific harders the loadout he gave you was just a generic mission running loadout from battleclinic.
ammo will depend on the rats your facing chose the ammo that works best on that rat
as for range don't worry to much about what range they can hit you from you'll never out range them just use the AB to dictate range and keep them at the best range for your guns
to give you an example your loadout with max skills and swapping in tech 2 mods
you get a loadout with a 117 sustained tank against exp/them damage which isn't cap stable. and 458 dps (using tech 1 emp ammo) that dps includes drones and missiles as well. but your speed is only 182 m/s
now the loadout Khin'charin gave you will give. a 158 dps tank against exp/therm damage and 524 dps. but the ship moves at 485 m/s which means you can chose your range so you'll be hitting for max damage.
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Clintus McGintus
Caldari
Shades of Life
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Posted - 2010.04.24 16:56:00 -
[10]
Why do people insist on posting loadouts with all t2 items? READ HIS OP.... He has 1.2m skill points... For doing lvl3's your doing really good with the SP you have, just train up some of the cheaper skills. If you need help or advice or want someone to team up with send me a mail or chat me up, Im always willing to help.
________________________________________________
May the Force be with you. |
Drastic13
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Posted - 2010.04.24 17:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: coeira
as for range don't worry to much about what range they can hit you from you'll never out range them just use the AB to dictate range and keep them at the best range for your guns
OK, but this is sorta what I don't understand. For example, my current optimal+falloff = 41km. Doesn't that mean I do the same dps anywhere between 0-41k?? Am I wrong on that? If not, then why do I even need an AB? Some of the bigger ships never even come within 30km of me. I guess I don't understand the point of AB kiting if I can't actually stay OUTSIDE of their range but still INSIDE of mine (41km). Can you help me understand what I'm missing here?
Originally by: Clintus McGintus
Why do people insist on posting loadouts with all t2 items? READ HIS OP.... He has 1.2m skill points... For doing lvl3's your doing really good with the SP you have, just train up some of the cheaper skills. If you need help or advice or want someone to team up with send me a mail or chat me up, Im always willing to help.
I know what you mean LOL - at least it gives me something to work towards ;) Thanks for your offer to help
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Faia Arashi
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Posted - 2010.04.24 18:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Faia Arashi on 24/04/2010 18:06:26
Originally by: Drastic13
Originally by: coeira
as for range don't worry to much about what range they can hit you from you'll never out range them just use the AB to dictate range and keep them at the best range for your guns
OK, but this is sorta what I don't understand. For example, my current optimal+falloff = 41km. Doesn't that mean I do the same dps anywhere between 0-41k?? Am I wrong on that? If not, then why do I even need an AB? Some of the bigger ships never even come within 30km of me. I guess I don't understand the point of AB kiting if I can't actually stay OUTSIDE of their range but still INSIDE of mine (41km). Can you help me understand what I'm missing here?
Originally by: Clintus McGintus
Why do people insist on posting loadouts with all t2 items? READ HIS OP.... He has 1.2m skill points... For doing lvl3's your doing really good with the SP you have, just train up some of the cheaper skills. If you need help or advice or want someone to team up with send me a mail or chat me up, Im always willing to help.
I know what you mean LOL - at least it gives me something to work towards ;) Thanks for your offer to help
From earlier: Invulns give the best protection without having to swap for mission specific.
For optimal range, that is the point you will do the best damage. Since rats (almost) never stand still, you have to worry about weapon tracking as they get closer in under your optimal. Angular velocity is a combination of both speed and how close they are. Something moving fast at the outer edge of your range will work out roughly similar to something moving slow close in. Optimal = best damage. Optimal + falloff = still doing something to them.
For missiles vs guns it is the difference vs raw speed vs angular speed. Shortly after my alt got her stealth bomber I did play with (single) torpedoes vs my primary's Drake. With the Drake orbiting the Hound (so distance would remain constant) the difference between moving vs stationary was roughly 40%. Provided the Hound could reach the Drake, this should remain true whether it was moving away, at, or across. Against guns you should get (near) full damage away or at, with the difference for moving across.
"Back then" I still sometimes got chased out of L3s, now for all but a select few I just sit and chew away at anything stupid enough to come within 55km. 
BTW, if cost of armor repair is getting to be a bit much. Get a repairer and instead of paying for each repair, fit that, fix the armor, then fit back to whatever else you had in that slot.
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Drastic13
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Posted - 2010.04.24 18:39:00 -
[13]
Ok, cool - thanks for the info, makes sense now. And yeh, I figured out the armor repair trick this morning also ;)
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Xeross155
Minmatar
Fusion Death Inc.
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.04.24 21:46:00 -
[14]
On the optimal/falloff stuff (Not taking into account other variables)
Optimal and Below is 100% Chance to hit
Optimal + Falloff = 50% Chance to hit (Gradually lowering from optimal to optimal+falloff)
Optimal + Falloff + Falloff = 0% (Gradually lowering from the above)
---------------------------------------------
Xeross' ventures into EVE |
Drastic13
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Posted - 2010.04.24 22:22:00 -
[15]
Yep, got it now - thanks again!
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Shandelzare
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Posted - 2010.04.24 22:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Shandelzare on 24/04/2010 22:38:24
Originally by: Clintus McGintus
Why do people insist on posting loadouts with all t2 items? READ HIS OP.... He has 1.2m skill points... For doing lvl3's your doing really good with the SP you have, just train up some of the cheaper skills. If you need help or advice or want someone to team up with send me a mail or chat me up, Im always willing to help.
ppl post fits with tech2 mods, becouse that's what they usually have on hand, it doesn't take whole lot of thinking to figure out you can use the same fitting, except with tech1 named modules instead, oh and on a related note, NEVER, EVER use tech2 shield power relays, always use tech1 meta4 ones, they give you exact same benefit, at pretty much half the cpu cost
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coeira
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Posted - 2010.04.24 23:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Shandelzare
ppl post fits with tech2 mods, becouse that's what they usually have on hand, it doesn't take whole lot of thinking to figure out you can use the same fitting, except with tech1 named modules instead, oh and on a related note, NEVER, EVER use tech2 shield power relays, always use tech1 meta4 ones, they give you exact same benefit, at pretty much half the cpu cost
LMAO what are you talking about your telling somebody no don't use the tech 2 versions of a mod which cost 750k use the meta level 4 versions for 2.7 mil a pop to save a massive 4.5 CPU on each one on a fit which very comfortable on CPU load.
seriously you dont spend 2 mil extra on a mod to make such a small saving unless your fit is extremely tight.
to the person moaning about the tech 2 fits. taking away the tech 2 weapons you can haver the tech 2 shield mods and tech 2 gyros in less then 12 days assuming half decent learning skills thats from a clean start. hardly a massive task for somebody to go out and train is it?
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Faia Arashi
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Posted - 2010.04.25 02:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Xeross155
On the optimal/falloff stuff (Not taking into account other variables)
Optimal and Below is 100% Chance to hit
Optimal + Falloff = 50% Chance to hit (Gradually lowering from optimal to optimal+falloff)
Optimal + Falloff + Falloff = 0% (Gradually lowering from the above)
"Other variables" being angular velocity and tracking? (And signature radius?)
So, given an optimal of 36km and falloff of 17km, mounted on a ship that can target 44.5km (optimal plus half of falloff) then that would be a minimum 75% (before those pesky "other variables")?
How is damage figured? Something like (probably not exactly like) how well an individual shot hits "over" what it needs to hit?
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Khin'charin
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.04.25 14:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Clintus McGintus
Why do people insist on posting loadouts with all t2 items? READ HIS OP.... He has 1.2m skill points... For doing lvl3's your doing really good with the SP you have, just train up some of the cheaper skills. If you need help or advice or want someone to team up with send me a mail or chat me up, Im always willing to help.
Tanking mods are easy to train for and if you really need help figuring out what guns to get instead of tech II, you should just quit EVE tbh.
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Zun thar
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Posted - 2010.04.25 23:42:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Zun thar on 25/04/2010 23:45:05
I'm new too and basically in the exact same spot, although I am a shield tank.
One helpful tip I figured out: train a basic armor repairer and if you have to warp back and forth, fit the repairer at station and undock and repair armor outside station.. slow and a bit irritating but will save you all that isk on repairs. Assuming you warp of before getting into Hull, of course.
Edit: someone already said it. LOL FAIL.
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Caleidascope
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Posted - 2010.04.26 01:44:00 -
[21]
One more tip, warp to a friendly station and dock, the station will replenish your cap and your shield. By friendly in this case is any matari station.
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Faia Arashi
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Posted - 2010.04.26 15:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Caleidascope
One more tip, warp to a friendly station and dock, the station will replenish your cap and your shield. By friendly in this case is any matari station.
I am not 100% sure on this, but it may be standings based. I think I can recall times where cap/shield was not topped off, but it has been quite a long time since I have docked 'hurt' at a station where I had no standings at all.
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Skex Relbore
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Posted - 2010.04.26 16:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: coeira
as for range don't worry to much about what range they can hit you from you'll never out range them
This part of your post is nonsense.
Range tanking is a very viable strategy, Particularly when you have low skills.
The trick to harder missions when you are low skilled is remember to take your time and learn to kite.
Kiting is basically a strategy of advance to the rear. You draw the NPC's into a running battle where they are chasing you. This does several things.
One It keeps them at range reducing the amount of incoming DPS.
Two it reduces transveral on the smaller ships making it easier to hit them as they approach.
3 it seperates the enemy, faster ships will out pace slower craft allowing you to concentrate on first the smaller then moving on to the next larger and so forth until all are dead.
While many enemy ships will still be able to hit you even at range they'll do less damage that they would if they were closer to you.
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.04.26 17:11:00 -
[24]
[Hurricane, Six Shooter, L3s]
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
N-Type Kinetic Hardener I
N-Type Kinetic Hardener I
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
10MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, EMP M
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, EMP M
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, EMP M
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, EMP M
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, EMP M
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon, EMP M
TE-2100 Standard Missile Bay, Sabretooth Light Missile
TE-2100 Standard Missile Bay, Sabretooth Light Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Hobgoblin I x5
This should do nicely, especially once you start to swap out for T2 tank to make it a little less hair raising in some of the L3s with a higher alpha than others. I'd work on T2 hardeners as soon as you can, and then T2 Light drones.
{...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness} |
Drastic13
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Posted - 2010.04.26 17:11:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: coeira
as for range don't worry to much about what range they can hit you from you'll never out range them
This part of your post is nonsense.
Range tanking is a very viable strategy, Particularly when you have low skills.
The trick to harder missions when you are low skilled is remember to take your time and learn to kite.
Kiting is basically a strategy of advance to the rear. You draw the NPC's into a running battle where they are chasing you. This does several things.
One It keeps them at range reducing the amount of incoming DPS.
Two it reduces transveral on the smaller ships making it easier to hit them as they approach.
3 it seperates the enemy, faster ships will out pace slower craft allowing you to concentrate on first the smaller then moving on to the next larger and so forth until all are dead.
While many enemy ships will still be able to hit you even at range they'll do less damage that they would if they were closer to you.
I understand the theories behind this - seems like it would work well... however, it doesn't seem to be helping me a whole lot. BS's seem to do the same dps to me from 1km-45km (my falloff). Am I doing something wrong?
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2010.04.26 17:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mendolus on 26/04/2010 17:26:48
Originally by: Drastic13
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: coeira
as for range don't worry to much about what range they can hit you from you'll never out range them
This part of your post is nonsense.
Range tanking is a very viable strategy, Particularly when you have low skills.
The trick to harder missions when you are low skilled is remember to take your time and learn to kite.
Kiting is basically a strategy of advance to the rear. You draw the NPC's into a running battle where they are chasing you. This does several things.
One It keeps them at range reducing the amount of incoming DPS.
Two it reduces transveral on the smaller ships making it easier to hit them as they approach.
3 it seperates the enemy, faster ships will out pace slower craft allowing you to concentrate on first the smaller then moving on to the next larger and so forth until all are dead.
While many enemy ships will still be able to hit you even at range they'll do less damage that they would if they were closer to you.
I understand the theories behind this - seems like it would work well... however, it doesn't seem to be helping me a whole lot. BS's seem to do the same dps to me from 1km-45km (my falloff). Am I doing something wrong?
You do not want to fly straight towards or away from the rats, but rather along a route that takes you at an angle away or towards them. If the rats are at 45km in front of you, start moving towards them on the leading edge.
This is prolly gonna fail hard, but imagine it like this:
+, rats
0, your traj
., space
+...+...0...+...+ = fail
+...+...+...+...0 = win
0...+...+...+...+ = win
Also bear in mind that this has no effect against rats in missions that are using missiles.
{...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness} |
Armageddon Brown
Bjorn Filthy Incorporated
Eternal Strife
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Posted - 2010.04.26 18:09:00 -
[27]
For the OP, the fit I used for Level 3s with about 3.5mil SP* is at the end of my post, I had to warp in and out a few times with blockade until I got used to which rats were triggers for new waves and control how many things were on the field shooting at me, but I can attest to it being possible to do it with this fit and low SP. (there's obviously room for improvement in this fit, it's just a starting point.)
*caveat: the first two skills I ever got to V were Electronics and Engineering, they just open up so many options.
Originally by: Xeross155
On the optimal/falloff stuff (Not taking into account other variables)
Optimal and Below is 100% Chance to hit
Optimal + Falloff = 50% Chance to hit (Gradually lowering from optimal to optimal+falloff)
Optimal + Falloff + Falloff = 0% (Gradually lowering from the above)
Piggy Backing off of this. - Artillery in particular has very poor tracking relative to its optimal range, so it's generally best to operate within falloff. While % chance to hit or miss is relevant, hit quality also lowers as range increases, except for wrecking hits, which have a flat percentage.
all of this taken together means that, ignoring tracking and sig radius (the former being a different issue and the latter being static) you lose no damage from range at optimal, about 20% at optimal+ 1/2 Falloff, about 60% at optimal+falloff, and 98~99% at optimal+2x falloff.
Put another way:
Optimal = 100% Hit Quality
Optimal + 1/2 Falloff = 80% Hit Quality
Optimal + falloff = 40% Hit Quality.
Optimal + 2x Falloff = 1~2% Hit Quality.
when you consider the generally poor tracking of artillery, you can actually gain damage against some targets by fighting beyond optimal but between optimal and 1/2 falloff, so that's where I tend to fight with Artillery.
[Hurricane, Army's L3 mission Runner]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
Counterbalanced Weapon Mounts I
10MN Afterburner
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Medium Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field I
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon
720mm Prototype I Siege Cannon
'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher
'Arbalest' Assault Missile Launcher
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Warrior I
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Von Kapiche
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.04.26 19:00:00 -
[28]
All the traversal and fancy flying in the world won't do a damn thing against Guristas and their endless missiles, speed however *will*. But frankly it's not that hard to ( shield ) tank the entirety of l3 gurista Blockade at once, so don't worry too hard about that. Makes your ship light up like a huge sparkler too.
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Drastic13
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Posted - 2010.04.26 20:20:00 -
[29]
Thanks again for all the help - it's been very useful in understanding the best way to do things. I greatly appreciate you all!
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Faia Arashi
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Posted - 2010.04.26 20:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Faia Arashi on 26/04/2010 20:53:32
Originally by: Drastic13
I understand the theories behind this - seems like it would work well... however, it doesn't seem to be helping me a whole lot. BS's seem to do the same dps to me from 1km-45km (my falloff). Am I doing something wrong?
While there are exceptions, in the majority of cases larger hulls will be able to out range smaller hulls while smaller hulls will be able to outrun larger hulls.
It is highly unlikely that you will be able to get far enough away from a BS for it to not be able to reach you yet you being able to reach it. On the other hand, you won't be able to outrun the frigates. But, if you can outrun the BS (and maybe some of the cruisers) then only the frigates will be able to reach you. Pick off the frigates, slow down a wee bit and let the cruisers catch up, pick them off, then you only have the BS to deal with.
In groups the most common tactic is to pick the biggest target and pile on. When solo it can be (but not always) more effective to pop the smalls first for faster reduction of incoming damage.
Also, any movement mitigates missiles, only angular movement mitigates guns (again with the occasional exception).
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