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Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.04.25 23:26:00 -
[1]
Well CCP, Dominion was supposed to be the expansion that redefined 0.0. And some good was done.... but you've also made us suffer hugely increased lag for 6 months now, with no prospect in sight of a return to Apocrypha levels of performance.
How about you make it up to us in another way. A massive campaign against the macro-bots. Specifically the ones that infest every corner of 0.0, but also the lo-sec and empire ice-belt hotspots too. You know the ones I mean, dont pretend you dont. I really dont think it's that hard to analyze logs to show bot behaviour if you really try. Here's a hint: if someone's character is ratting with exactly mechanical precision for 23 hours a day, day after day, always instawarping the second anyone appears in local (loliknowrite?), then they're a bot. If someone is ice-mining 23 hours a day, in precise synchrony with multiple similarly named characters all created at the same time then they're a bot. If someone is running courier missions out of Ingunn 23 hours a day, ignoring the fact that the station is camped then they're a bot. If someone is mining veld 23 hours a day, and even keeps trying to "mine" in their pod for 8 hours after their covetor gets ganked then they're a bot.
Run the analysis. flag the suspects. observe them in operation. ban the accounts.
The server has been suffering lately, CCP. Let's help it out by lightening the load a little.
What say you?
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.26 06:24:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
they are also paying customers... I suspect that some very large alliance and large groups of players would suddenly vanish. CCP wants to make money.
So frustrating to even go to 0.0 because macro-ratting ravens are omnipresent. One time I managed to bypass their macroing bull**** by keeping a bubble hauler cloaked in system with them constantly and then anchoring some bubbles at their pos once they set their bot to ignore the hauler dude. Caught a group of macro ravens that instantly warped to their pos when I entered local. Too bad most of them simply warp to a safe and log or cloak. I have tried and there really isn't a good way to try and catch most of them.
So paying CCP a sub entitles them to cheat?
How about a modest proposal of compromise:
Half the subscription interval on botting accounts. If we're going to allow them to cheat because they pay CCP, then they should at least pay extra for the privilege.
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.26 07:51:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Pheusia on 26/04/2010 07:51:51
Originally by: Whattis
Originally by: Zartrader
If a human can spot them a simple server script will be able to as well.
It's that easy huh?
Alright, pastebin me a script in any language that will seperate every ninth uneven number in a sequence of random digits, and I'll send you two bil isk tonight.
Don't bother begging everyone you know to write one for you, I was just proving a point. Go bag groceries and stop judging thousands of lines of code while incapable of forming a single coherent sentence.
A simple server script cant be used to find and ban bots. A somewhat more complex script can be used to flag bot-like activity for further investigation. I listed several eminently script-searchable activities in my OP.
Originally by: Pheusia
Run the analysis. flag the suspects. observe them in operation. ban the accounts.
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.26 08:09:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Musical Fist
Macros tend to click the same areas or do the same commands OVER and OVER, this by default should make it easy to find them
1: Download Macro
2: Run Macro on test server
3: Look at resulting log pattern
4: Look for repeated pattern matches in player logs and investigate
5: BANHAMMAR!
6: Download next macro...
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.26 10:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: I SoStoned
Here's how you fix macros, at least in 0.0
Server picks a random name from a system in empire, then duplicates that name on a local channel in 0.0 - randomly populating them with one or more names. Or, heck, just random gobs of text. A *human* would be able to identify the gibberish as such, but a bot would not (hint: Eve limits player names to two discreet words - false names could then be made into three words, something perhaps difficult for botters to differentiate).
Does this for every 0.0 system with one name in it, and cycles the name every few minutes/hours. Real players will be kept on their toes not knowing if the name is a false positive or not, but macros will either warp & cloak, or be programmed to ignore them, enabling people to sneak up on them legitimately.
In essence, what you're proposing is to make local an unreliable intel channel.
It would be simpler to just add a random 1-90 second delay to appearing in local after entering a system.
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.26 12:02:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Swiftgaze
Originally by: Midge Mo'yb
remove local from 0.0
macro ratters gone
Remove local from 0.0
Have bots hit the directional scanner nonstop.
Change scanners so that rescanning within 30 seconds causes heat buildup. Keep doing it for more than a couple of minutes, and your scanner burns out until you can dock and repair it.
Add precisely timed scanning intervals to the list of "bot flag" behaviours.
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.26 12:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Pheusia
What say you?
I say that it would just end up in a race between bot-writers and CCP. Bot-writers would try to escape CCP's automatic analysis tools by introducing some random elements or what not. CCP would need to improve their detection methods and so on. Precious resources wasted this way.
No, it is much better to focus on those who profit from the bots. ISK sellers and buyers for example. Ban them!
And anyway ... there is some pretty wise saying that when some gameplay rewards the use of bot that then the game design is bad. So I agree that the game design is bad and should be changed. Grinding is always stupid and pretty much waste of time, it really screams for the use of bots. Change the grind to some interesting and complex game play and you are rid of the bots and have improved your game.
What would that mean for Eve? Change mining to something interesting and interactive instead of mindless grind. Change ratting and mission running to something interesting and get rid of the grind there too.
A battle against the bots with automated tools, however, is doomed to fail and just a waste of resources. Change gamedesign and get rid of bots this way.
I agree with your point about root causes. By all means improve the PvE in EVE so that it is less predictable and easy enough for a few hundred lines of code to compeletely defeat. I agree 100% with this goal. But that does not excuse cheating. Not all botters are RMTers; some are simply cheaters.
It may be - as you say - that there would be an escalation by the bot writers. But at the very least, let's put the bot writers to that trouble. Let's make the botters have to create and train up a bunch of new bot accounts. Let's make botters use 2 or 3 accounts instead of one. Let's make botters have to buy new macros every couple of months. Let's increase their overhead, increase their time spent and decrease their rewards.
Ignoring the problem will not make it go away. Not being able to perfectly solve the problem is a pathetic excuse for not even trying to improve it.
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.26 14:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: Pheusia
Change scanners so that rescanning within 30 seconds causes heat buildup. Keep doing it for more than a couple of minutes, and your scanner burns out until you can dock and repair it.
Add precisely timed scanning intervals to the list of "bot flag" behaviours.
great, so now you killed all of 0.0 who dont know how to play and wont learn.
FYP. If you dont like being hunted, be the hunter.
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.28 19:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Menian Goneld
Realize this though. Im not defending macro'ers, but if they really arent bothering me, I dont go hunting for them. I dont really experiance any lag in 0.0, but then again I dont go fight in 2000 man fights (which your supposed to petition before hand for the server to be increased). Anyways. I enjoy the low-a** prices that are the result of macro'ers. Without them, my 500mil carrier would be MUCH more expensive.
Just remember... all those ships pvp'ers use for fighting were probably built by macro'ers.
Just my 2 cents.
And player miners can just go fck themselves for all you care, right?
If someone made a PVP macro, would you be OK with that? Would you expect the mining players to support your opposition?
Signed,
Pheusia |
Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.04.29 06:39:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ban Doga
Looks like there are still people who think CCP is providing full accounts without getting paid.
Other people pay for those macro accounts. They would be equally happy to pay for non-macro accounts instead. Banning macros would not necessarily affect the number of accounts in the long term, especially after taking in to account the attractive effect of a game that actually enforced the rules on botting.
Signed,
Pheusia |
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