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Split up the Big T

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BORRIS DEMONTFORD	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:07:00 - [31] Pirates of The Burning Sea started off with 13 servers it now has 2, 1 of which is on its last legs, most players attribute the shedding of the games population, at least in part, to the players being spread too thin.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:10:00 - [32] Originally by: Kallieah Honestly, I've seen lots of declarations that this is a stupid idea, but little (some yes) actual supporting commentary about why this is a bad idea as a lag fix. People around here get sick of stating the patently obvious. - I wish I was a two foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Zeredek Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:15:00 - [33] Dear Kallieah, please go away, we don't want you trying to ruin it for the rest of us. Originally by: CCP Chronotis whiners
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:18:00 - [34] This thread would have been so much funner if it was in the assembly hall so the csm members could have taken it seriously and brought it up at the next meeting. You know they would. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Get off the forums and go kill someone! Originally by: Amarr Supremacist Yeah, it(Jaguar) almost has cruiser level tank and gank!
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:21:00 - [35] Hi, I also own a Lear Jet and am quite pleased with it. However, I have noticed that they can crash from time to time. This is a problem, but don't worry because I have a solution. We will simply add brake lights and turn signals to make them street legal, and then remove their wings. While it is true that this removes all reason to own a Lear Jet, I feel that it is a simple and elegant way to solve the problem. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Zeredek Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:24:00 - [36] Originally by: Ranger 1 Hi, I also own a Lear Jet and am quite pleased with it. However, I have noticed that they can crash from time to time. This is a problem, but don't worry because I have a solution. We will simply add brake lights and turn signals to make them street legal, and then remove their wings. While it is true that this removes all reason to own a Lear Jet, I feel that it is a simple and elegant way to solve the problem. Originally by: CCP Chronotis whiners
Avon Caldari Versatech Co. Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:24:00 - [37] Edited by: Avon on 29/04/2010 17:26:47 Originally by: Kallieah Honestly, I've seen lots of declarations that this is a stupid idea, but little (some yes) actual supporting commentary about why this is a bad idea as a lag fix. I believe I know why too, because it -will- fix lag and most of you feel threatened by other MMOs only because you're trying to convince yourselves that what you play now is the best. Are you proposing to cure the lag by sharding, but using the same amount of physical servers as used now to support the total playerbase, or by adding new servers for each shard? If it is the former, please explain how that would work. If it is the later, please explain why you couldn't just use that new hardware to reduce the lag without sharding. Also, so long as a system can only run one node, please explain how increasing hardware will allow the very high player counts some systems experience, and especially focusing on how sharding would improve performance of large PvP encounters where more > better. Thank you in advance for you consideration in this matter. Signature removed, please only use English on the forums. Zymurgist Okay sweet-cheeks xxx. Avon
Veronica Damask	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Chribba Originally by: Kallieah It could be like how other, super successful MMOs run their games. No thanks, EVE is the uber just because it's only one server. Having to log on to another server just to talk to pilot X instead of Y and I could just as well play Word of Weirdcraft. /c Agree. OP is a incredible idiot.
failpirate	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:41:00 - [39] i thought this was a stupid idea at first, but i was thinking about it at work and it's actually not bad. think of it this way: would you rather have one universe that doesn't work, or multiple universes that work? also, i think most would agree that pvp and griefing has been ruining the game, so dedicate some of the universes to pvp and everyone's happy.
Kallieah The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:52:00 - [40] Taedrin and Avon thank you both for actually posing useful or constructive thoughts. I'll try to give you a worthwhile answer. Regarding code, I know nothing about it or how it all works and I honestly doubt that there are many people in thw forums that are qualified to analyse the inner workings. I bet there's improvements to be had, but that can only go so far in helping until we encounter problwms again. That thought leads me to you, Avon. I think that an increase in amount of computers would be unnecessary right away because with a PCU of say 6000 or even 10000 it isn't as likely that there will ever be enough players around interested in a fleet battle at a given time to cause lag. This does bring up scalability as an option since each little EVE (aw cute!) can later grow or measures can be taken to manage population between worlds ala paid character transfers or by opening up more worlds as needed to keep up with demand and offering free of charge moves. My thumbs are getting sore since I've been poking in all of this from a phone so I'll keep the response short. I hope it offers a little insight into my vision of CCPs hopefully fun and bright future.
Ryhss Caldari The Templar Navy SRS.	Posted - 2010.04.29 17:58:00 - [41] Edited by: Ryhss on 29/04/2010 17:58:25 I hate to say it, but imo the only way CCP will be able to fix lag swiftly is to split us into 2 live servers.
Wolfgang Jager Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2010.04.29 18:02:00 - [42] Originally by: Taedrin a) Prevent players from piling into the same node, ie make it strategically important to split up forces and strike multiple solar systems at once instead of blobbing a single solar system at a time. This; many people argued back when the whole idea of "fixing" SOV warfare came up that the only real way to fix it was to remove the incentives for massive blob warfare. If you make "holding" a system require sustained presence and defending many lower value targets, you would remove the desire for one massive blob. Instead they renamed the targets and made even fewer of them matter...thus the 800 ships blobs fighting over one SBU/TCU. As for splitting the overall server population, it is a bad idea because it would destroy all the complex interactions that make EVE, EVE. The game is as complex as it is because of the myriad economic interactions between 10s of thousands of players on the market across a vast region of space. Likewise, less people would mean vastly less complicated politics; fewer power blocks, less interaction and less drama...all making the game much less interesting overall.
Taxesarebad	Posted - 2010.04.29 18:36:00 - [43] Originally by: Kallieah What do you guys think? I think you should quit, stop trolling, then play world of failcraft and have fun playing with no more than 200 players at a time. funny the amount of people in JITA is about the same as the realm size of wow. -------------SIGZONE-------------- Remove Shadow.... ;)
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 18:41:00 - [44] Edited by: Tippia on 29/04/2010 18:42:54 Originally by: failpirate think of it this way: would you rather have one universe that doesn't work, or multiple universes that work? I want one large universe that works (even with occasional limps), thankyouverymuch, mainly because multiple universes won't work by very definition. The problem with this idea is that it doesn't work because a) it doesn't solve the problem at hand, b) it completely disregards everything that makes the EVE universe work, and c) it completely disregards how the game backbone actually functions. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Th0rG0d Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.29 19:59:00 - [45] I don't know why I am responding to this, as the OP clearly hasn't a clue despite saying "I have a lot of insight into these sorts of things.." What you are suggesting is almost exactly how Eve is run. As pointed out by others, the entire universe is divided up into nodes, which are separate servers. Some nodes do run more then one slow or underpopulated solar systems, even entire constellations. This is why CCP requests to be informed as early as possible of potential fleet fights, so they can be sure to reinforce said node. The only difference to what you have suggested, is there is no real cap to population, and you can travel between nodes without requesting to be moved. Personally, I would be p*sed if I had to request to go to another node, much less pay an additional fee, just so I could chat or fly with a friend. And to reiterate what others have already responded to you with, the only way to fix lag is to remove or adjust* the game mechanics that require 800+ man blobs to accomplish a goal. Yes, people will always try to bring more than their enemies, but if the enemy only needs to bring 100, then it will probably be unnecessary to respond with 400. Even if you decide to do so, we've already shaved off 300 from that particular battle. tl;dr Eve is pretty close to what OP is suggesting, he just doesn't know it. I italicized the important parts for you, so you don't miss anything Adrift in New Eden
Kallieah The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 20:09:00 - [46] While I agree that a single world with everyone in it together is ideal, it doesn't seem to be a realistic expectation given the ongoing, chronic lag problems. I'm fairly certain that running a world with say 5000 to 8000 PCU is not a game breaking situation since, EVE was regularly running only 10000 during off peak times as late as two to three years ago. The game was lots of fun then and was even during its earlier beginnings when that number was even lower. It's really just a matter of getting used to seeing smaller numbers that most people will probably not notice much in the actual game.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 20:19:00 - [47] Originally by: Kallieah While I agree that a single world with everyone in it together is ideal, it doesn't seem to be a realistic expectation given the ongoing, chronic lag problems. Sure it is. Just look at the pre-Dominion situation. Quote: I'm fairly certain that running a world with say 5000 to 8000 PCU is not a game breaking situation since, EVE was regularly running only 10000 during off peak times as late as two to three years ago. Riiiiightà so just because at its lowest it ran at twice what it would have at its highest, that new max number will be swell? Never mind all that happens during those peak hours that makes the 10k off-hours bearable. Never mind the critical mass that gives the economy the strength it has today. Never mind that it goes against what you claim you want to achieve. Never mind that you're forgetting the space expansion that has happened. Never mind the NPC-based support mechanics that have been removed. Never mind (etc)à Quote: It's really just a matter of getting used to seeing smaller numbers that most people will probably not notice much in the actual game. Oh I'm sure that a non-functioning economy, a complete lack of social context, and no consequences for your actions won't be noticeable at all. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
failpirate	Posted - 2010.04.29 20:32:00 - [48] remember, folks, thorolfur beck was well aware that it may not be possible for everything to run in only one universe. in his words: "It remains to be seen how many players we will fit in each instance of the game world. The problem there is not in the game system or content, but technical limitations associated with the infrastructure of the Internet." the goal was to have as few universes as possible, not necessarily only one. looks like it's time to readdress that.
Nachshon Caldari Valklear Guard	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:07:00 - [49] The single server is one of EVE's strongest points. Getting rid of it would destroy much of what makes EVE great. ____________________________________ Caldari by birth, Minmatar by citizenship. The True Meaning of Freedom My v
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:11:00 - [50] Originally by: Kallieah I Should quite playing EVE. What do you guys think? Fixed that for you. And yess I agree you should quit. Wherever you went - Here you are.
AdmiralJohn The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:18:00 - [51] Kallicakes, You've made me proud. +rep
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:22:00 - [52] In a way, this is a workable solution... because if you shard EVE everyone quits. Problem solved. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Kallieah The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:44:00 - [53] Originally by: Nachshon The single server is one of EVE's strongest points. Getting rid of it would destroy much of what makes EVE great. I agree with you on one of two points. A single universe is a strong point that make EVE stand out among peers and let's it compete with other one world games like Second Life on their level. So yes, all of us in one shared universe is a good thing. I disagree that offering more worlds would break anything. On April 26, 2004 EVE posted 10396 players online all at once for the first time. The game was not broken then and nor would it be broken if there were several realms running those same numbers now. I argue that it'd be better partly due to a lack of lag, but also because there'd be vast swaths of space to explore where a pod pilot could truly experience the cold "alone" of space. In the long run, I'm fairly sure that CCP will travel down this road. Yes it will be disappointing for some of us, but for others, it will reignite the sensations of limitless possibility we felt a long time ago. Some of us will leave and others will replace you. As long as EVE contunies to grow, the losses can be dealt with. What would really be a shame is if you, the capsuleer community resisted, forcing CCP to spend resources to sustain a failing one-world concept that becomes unplayable and causes you to leave. I would rather have lots of universes with the same or more subscribers instead of one very empty one.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:46:00 - [54] Originally by: Kallieah I would rather have lots of universes with the same or more subscribers instead of one very empty one. And yet you're arguing for a combination of the worst aspects of the two: lots of universes, all of them very empty. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Kallieah Originally by: Chribba Originally by: Kallieah It could be like how other, super successful MMOs run their games. No thanks, EVE is the uber just because it's only one server. Having to log on to another server just to talk to pilot X instead of Y and I could just as well play Word of Weirdcraft. /c That's good though! Moving from one world to another would keep you from wasting time planning fleet actions while you were focused on the social aspects of the game like people in Second Life are already doing ten times better than we are here. Your going to have to learn to troll more effectively if you want any kind of big reaction. Looking @ Tippia's posts, he's doing just fine. - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
fweepa Gallente F and A Supply	Posted - 2010.04.29 21:54:00 - [56] Are you serious? Is he serious? You're serious? How about, we just eliminate the online thing all together, and just replace everything with NPC's, then we won't have any lag at all! and we can all just play single player games!! Go away, troll
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:00:00 - [57] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Looking @ Tippia's posts, he's doing just fine. Call it pre-emptive if you like. Even if this idiot is trolling, there are plenty of morons who think the same thing and which need to have their delusions stomped on before they even appear. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kallieah The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:02:00 - [58] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Kallieah I would rather have lots of universes with the same or more subscribers instead of one very empty one. And yet you're arguing for a combination of the worst aspects of the two: lots of universes, all of them very empty. Not at all. I'd like to see a well managed set of cute little EVEs, each with a sustainable population that represents a slice of the current population's total numbers. I think this is a good solution to lag problems as I already mentioned and would allow further growth of the game world and community. Just think of how many Sisi stress tests multiple EVEs would allow and how much better the new content would be if there was more development time spent elsewhere. We could have sweet graphical designs that are unique to our ships or stations that don't look like a scrapyard inside a child's soap bubble. Or fewer macro sellers, miners, ratters.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:04:00 - [59] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Bellum Eternus Looking @ Tippia's posts, he's doing just fine. Call it pre-emptive if you like. Even if this idiot is trolling, there are plenty of morons who think the same thing and which need to have their delusions stomped on before they even appear. True, true. If we don't nip it in the bud it might spread. KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! - Originally by: Bellum Eternus That is the beauty of Eve, it's a crucible in which great minds are formed and the rest are ground to dust. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Obsidian Hawk RONA Legion	Posted - 2010.04.29 22:05:00 - [60] Originally by: Kallieah Hellow Im an alt in an alt alliance filled with alts and more alts. Im here trolling on my alt cause I love to make people mad because I have nothing better to do. Fixed!

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