Check My IP Information  All Channels  Ships and Modules      Here is how to passive shield tank for those that want know. » Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google  Monitor this thread via RSS [?]   Author Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.04 19:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Pottsey on 25/05/2005 19:47:12 EDIT: May 2005 update Recent testing has made me believe the correct number is 2.5 at 30%. So please replace 2.4 with 2.5 in all the below text. That also throws the rest of the maths off a little. Due to the amount of Eve mails I get asking how to passive tank I decided to post it here again. I donÆt want to this it turn into another is passive tanking worth or is it a waste of time argument read the numbers and methods and make your own mind up. This is purely to explain how to passive tank to cut down on the mail I get. I donÆt have a problem with people mailing me if you do get stuck. For those wondering the idea behind passive setups is if you run out of cap or someone useÆs Nos on you, your defence stays on max instead of turning off. To work out your passive shield recharge rate you need to know you shield cap and shield recharge rate. So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx. The catch is shields are none linier so the lower the shields get the faster they charge up. At the fastest point around 30% shields are 2.4 ish times faster (if any devs are reading this please confirm if 2.4 is correct). So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy. Do not worry if the first 30 or even 50% of your shields go down fast its from 30 to 50% when your shields are strongest. Once the shields get lower then 20% ish (not sure on correct number) its time to warp out as you hit the point of no return. At this point shields recharge slows down so you getting less per second. For example if my ship has a 9000 shield cap and a 500 second shield recharge rate my shield points per second would be 9000/500 * 2.4 = 43.2 points per second when less then 20% the 43.2 number drops the more I get below 20% the more the number drops. 90% also worse then 43.2 at 90% I get less then 20 points per second. 43.2 might not seem much but thatÆs per second. A large shield booster is 160 points over 4 seconds. So to compare you take yyyy in my case 43.2 and * by 4 = 172.8. Extra large shield boosters are over 5 seconds so to compare to that you would do yyy my case 43.2 b 5 = 215. Please note the above shield cap and shield recharge rates are made up numbers to make the maths easier. My real numbers are higher. The next question I get asked is whatÆs better shield extenders or shield recharges. The correct answer is a mix depending on ship. Fit all your mid slots with shield recharges now do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy Now take off 1 mid shield cap / shield recharge rate =xxx and fit in a shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy if you get a higher number this time then your better off with a shield extender. Next repeat the above step but take off a 2nd shield recharges and fit a 2nd shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy. Keep doing the above at some point you will find taking off shield recharges and fitting in shield extender lowers the yyyy number. My ship turned out best with 3 shield extenders and 2 shield recharges. Best module mid slots are shield extenders and shield recharges. In the low slots shield relays. Do not use shield flux. The flux module lowers your shield cap meaning you get less shield points per second. If you use max shield relays your reactor will charge up very slow meaning this setup is not practical for some people. It works well on agent missions and for people who forgot to turn on boosters or are just too lazy to turn them on. If you need to PvP and use warp scrabbles and lots of cap draining modules passive setups should not work for you. For those wonder lots of people have done level 3 agent missions with a passive setup. Some people like to lose a bit of passive setup and fit 1 to 4 hardeners. If anyone has questions ask away. But please donÆt tell me boosters or amour tanking is better or worse. This is just another way to equip your ship. It has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. You might like it you might not. EDIT: One thing a lot of people forget to take into account about passive setups is you donÆt need much cap recharge. Lots look at the recharge rate and go 2000, 3000 or even 6000 seconds reactor cap recharge rate that unusable. But they forget to take into account you donÆt have boosters draining the cap fast. A standard scorp battleship can run weapons and 3 active hardeners with missiles for 11 minuets without cap problems. That can easily be extended by training up reactor skills or using 1 nos. That 11 mins also does not take into account the cap you recarge back over 11 mins. ThatÆs not always the case a full layout of target lock jamers, warp scramblers e.c.t is not a suitable setup for a passive tank. EDIT 2: There are 6 new implants that help passive tanking and you can use two at once. 3 page has the implants listed. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.04 19:12:00 - [2] Edited by: Pottsey on 25/05/2005 19:47:12 EDIT: May 2005 update Recent testing has made me believe the correct number is 2.5 at 30%. So please replace 2.4 with 2.5 in all the below text. That also throws the rest of the maths off a little. Due to the amount of Eve mails I get asking how to passive tank I decided to post it here again. I donÆt want to this it turn into another is passive tanking worth or is it a waste of time argument read the numbers and methods and make your own mind up. This is purely to explain how to passive tank to cut down on the mail I get. I donÆt have a problem with people mailing me if you do get stuck. For those wondering the idea behind passive setups is if you run out of cap or someone useÆs Nos on you, your defence stays on max instead of turning off. To work out your passive shield recharge rate you need to know you shield cap and shield recharge rate. So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx. The catch is shields are none linier so the lower the shields get the faster they charge up. At the fastest point around 30% shields are 2.4 ish times faster (if any devs are reading this please confirm if 2.4 is correct). So you do shield cap / shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy. Do not worry if the first 30 or even 50% of your shields go down fast its from 30 to 50% when your shields are strongest. Once the shields get lower then 20% ish (not sure on correct number) its time to warp out as you hit the point of no return. At this point shields recharge slows down so you getting less per second. For example if my ship has a 9000 shield cap and a 500 second shield recharge rate my shield points per second would be 9000/500 * 2.4 = 43.2 points per second when less then 20% the 43.2 number drops the more I get below 20% the more the number drops. 90% also worse then 43.2 at 90% I get less then 20 points per second. 43.2 might not seem much but thatÆs per second. A large shield booster is 160 points over 4 seconds. So to compare you take yyyy in my case 43.2 and * by 4 = 172.8. Extra large shield boosters are over 5 seconds so to compare to that you would do yyy my case 43.2 b 5 = 215. Please note the above shield cap and shield recharge rates are made up numbers to make the maths easier. My real numbers are higher. The next question I get asked is whatÆs better shield extenders or shield recharges. The correct answer is a mix depending on ship. Fit all your mid slots with shield recharges now do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy Now take off 1 mid shield cap / shield recharge rate =xxx and fit in a shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy if you get a higher number this time then your better off with a shield extender. Next repeat the above step but take off a 2nd shield recharges and fit a 2nd shield extender. Do shield cap/ shield recharge rate = xxx * 2.4 = yyyy. Keep doing the above at some point you will find taking off shield recharges and fitting in shield extender lowers the yyyy number. My ship turned out best with 3 shield extenders and 2 shield recharges. Best module mid slots are shield extenders and shield recharges. In the low slots shield relays. Do not use shield flux. The flux module lowers your shield cap meaning you get less shield points per second. If you use max shield relays your reactor will charge up very slow meaning this setup is not practical for some people. It works well on agent missions and for people who forgot to turn on boosters or are just too lazy to turn them on. If you need to PvP and use warp scrabbles and lots of cap draining modules passive setups should not work for you. For those wonder lots of people have done level 3 agent missions with a passive setup. Some people like to lose a bit of passive setup and fit 1 to 4 hardeners. If anyone has questions ask away. But please donÆt tell me boosters or amour tanking is better or worse. This is just another way to equip your ship. It has a different set of advantages and disadvantages. You might like it you might not. EDIT: One thing a lot of people forget to take into account about passive setups is you donÆt need much cap recharge. Lots look at the recharge rate and go 2000, 3000 or even 6000 seconds reactor cap recharge rate that unusable. But they forget to take into account you donÆt have boosters draining the cap fast. A standard scorp battleship can run weapons and 3 active hardeners with missiles for 11 minuets without cap problems. That can easily be extended by training up reactor skills or using 1 nos. That 11 mins also does not take into account the cap you recarge back over 11 mins. ThatÆs not always the case a full layout of target lock jamers, warp scramblers e.c.t is not a suitable setup for a passive tank. EDIT 2: There are 6 new implants that help passive tanking and you can use two at once. 3 page has the implants listed. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.04 19:57:00 - [3] Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 20:01:18 ö1) Where did you get the 2.4 figure from? (I came up with a similar multiplier for cap recharge, so im thinking they might work the same.)ö Someone told me the 2.4 figure for cap and after light testing it felt around about the same for shields. I have to stress I did not accurately test to check it was 2.4 but I would be surprised if it was vastly different from that. I really should do some better testing unless someone beats me to it. Part of my testing was letting ships shoot me if the number was a lot below 2.4 I would have died. I would say worse case its 2.2 best case its 2.6. ö2) What ship do you use this on, and what cap recharge are you left with? (Can you for example still run a webber to get the NPC frigs?)ö My recharge is 6398 seconds with level 1 cap regen skill. Using 1 less relay and swaping to 1 PDU cuts this down in half to 3000 seconds. Two PDUÆs and scarping two relays made a large difference at expense of shield regen. I live with the low cap recharge as its enough to shoot my hybrid weapons for without running out of cap. A webber is about 1 cap per second so it would lower my fire time down to 10 minutes. My ship is a Dominix and I did the maths for the webber not tested that one. So it might be a little off. But if you use weapons that dont drain cap you have enough cap for more then 1 cap draining module. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.04 19:57:00 - [4] Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 20:01:18 ö1) Where did you get the 2.4 figure from? (I came up with a similar multiplier for cap recharge, so im thinking they might work the same.)ö Someone told me the 2.4 figure for cap and after light testing it felt around about the same for shields. I have to stress I did not accurately test to check it was 2.4 but I would be surprised if it was vastly different from that. I really should do some better testing unless someone beats me to it. Part of my testing was letting ships shoot me if the number was a lot below 2.4 I would have died. I would say worse case its 2.2 best case its 2.6. ö2) What ship do you use this on, and what cap recharge are you left with? (Can you for example still run a webber to get the NPC frigs?)ö My recharge is 6398 seconds with level 1 cap regen skill. Using 1 less relay and swaping to 1 PDU cuts this down in half to 3000 seconds. Two PDUÆs and scarping two relays made a large difference at expense of shield regen. I live with the low cap recharge as its enough to shoot my hybrid weapons for without running out of cap. A webber is about 1 cap per second so it would lower my fire time down to 10 minutes. My ship is a Dominix and I did the maths for the webber not tested that one. So it might be a little off. But if you use weapons that dont drain cap you have enough cap for more then 1 cap draining module. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.04 22:58:00 - [5] Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 23:12:51 ôThe best passive-augmented tank setup that I can envision is on a scorp and as follows:ö & öWith lvl 4 skills, this should have 13.5k shields and a recharge rate of 1121 seconds, giving a passive recharge (according to the equation that you're suggusting) of 29 shield HP/sec.ö ThatÆs very poor 29 per second is not worth it. I donÆt mean to be rude but thatÆs hardly a passive setup. Try taking out the cap recharger, PDUÆs and booster. Swap in shield relays, and an extra mid slot large shield extender or recharge. Then see what you shield points per second are. There is little point in having the cap recharger and PDUÆs as without the booster hardly anything drains cap. Your setup is only getting 89 shield points per second with the booster mixed with a passive setup. Do you mind trying a fully passive setup without the booster and seeing what you get? Keep the hardeners in if you use them. You should be able to break 100 points per second without the cap drain from a booster. ôYour numbers on the dominix support this, since the recharge rate is barely better then a large tech2 booster,ö I didnÆt compare against the T2 boosters as I didnÆt think it was far to compare a mostly T1 setup against a T2 setup. Not sure how you got a Dominix passive setup is barely better then a T2 booster. A Dominix Passive setup with T1 low slot modules is 432 over 4 seconds while the T2 large booster is 240 over 4 seconds. Well to be far with passive hardeners my passive charge over 4 seconds is 294.2 the 432 number is without hardners. I am still playing around with how many hardners to use. ôA shield tank without hardeners is worth nothing. A ship that cannot even maintain the cap to run hardeners and weapons is worth nothing. I'm not saying passive shield tanking is worthless, but it is on a dominix.ö I think your missing the point. The point of a passive setup is to use passive modules. You donÆt use hardeners that use up cap along with boosters that would be a active setup not passive though you can use 1 or two active modules with little problem. You can use cap draining modules but its not recommended unless its like a hardner that use's up 2 cap a second or less. The only cap draining modules I use are sometimes 1 after burner and 6 blasters. My Dominix can keep its weapons fireing for 11 Minuets and that can be extended by training up my skills. Its not often battles last 11 minuets or longer if they do use 1 Nos or weapons that dont drain cap. Mind you if your a laser user I would keep away from a passive setup. I have head laser user's useing passive setups but it does not seem like a good idea to me. I agree a ship without hardeners is nothing thatÆs why I use some on my Dominix I have with T1 modules Em 32% Explosive 60% Kinetic 40% Thermal 50% _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.04 22:58:00 - [6] Edited by: Pottsey on 04/12/2004 23:12:51 ôThe best passive-augmented tank setup that I can envision is on a scorp and as follows:ö & öWith lvl 4 skills, this should have 13.5k shields and a recharge rate of 1121 seconds, giving a passive recharge (according to the equation that you're suggusting) of 29 shield HP/sec.ö ThatÆs very poor 29 per second is not worth it. I donÆt mean to be rude but thatÆs hardly a passive setup. Try taking out the cap recharger, PDUÆs and booster. Swap in shield relays, and an extra mid slot large shield extender or recharge. Then see what you shield points per second are. There is little point in having the cap recharger and PDUÆs as without the booster hardly anything drains cap. Your setup is only getting 89 shield points per second with the booster mixed with a passive setup. Do you mind trying a fully passive setup without the booster and seeing what you get? Keep the hardeners in if you use them. You should be able to break 100 points per second without the cap drain from a booster. ôYour numbers on the dominix support this, since the recharge rate is barely better then a large tech2 booster,ö I didnÆt compare against the T2 boosters as I didnÆt think it was far to compare a mostly T1 setup against a T2 setup. Not sure how you got a Dominix passive setup is barely better then a T2 booster. A Dominix Passive setup with T1 low slot modules is 432 over 4 seconds while the T2 large booster is 240 over 4 seconds. Well to be far with passive hardeners my passive charge over 4 seconds is 294.2 the 432 number is without hardners. I am still playing around with how many hardners to use. ôA shield tank without hardeners is worth nothing. A ship that cannot even maintain the cap to run hardeners and weapons is worth nothing. I'm not saying passive shield tanking is worthless, but it is on a dominix.ö I think your missing the point. The point of a passive setup is to use passive modules. You donÆt use hardeners that use up cap along with boosters that would be a active setup not passive though you can use 1 or two active modules with little problem. You can use cap draining modules but its not recommended unless its like a hardner that use's up 2 cap a second or less. The only cap draining modules I use are sometimes 1 after burner and 6 blasters. My Dominix can keep its weapons fireing for 11 Minuets and that can be extended by training up my skills. Its not often battles last 11 minuets or longer if they do use 1 Nos or weapons that dont drain cap. Mind you if your a laser user I would keep away from a passive setup. I have head laser user's useing passive setups but it does not seem like a good idea to me. I agree a ship without hardeners is nothing thatÆs why I use some on my Dominix I have with T1 modules Em 32% Explosive 60% Kinetic 40% Thermal 50% _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.04 23:20:00 - [7] Going back to Pandora Panda hrybid setup mixing passive and boosters has anyone made this work and managed to break 100+ shield points per second? I failed every time I tried as I would run out of cap to fast. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.04 23:20:00 - [8] Going back to Pandora Panda hrybid setup mixing passive and boosters has anyone made this work and managed to break 100+ shield points per second? I failed every time I tried as I would run out of cap to fast. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.05 10:12:00 - [9] öPottsey: have you tried passively tanking a cruiser class? or would that simply give too low an output due to lack of slots?ö It works well on a mark 5 Indi which has loads of slots but little cap making boosters hard to run. But that does mean cutting down on cargo space from lack of cargo expander at the same time you donÆt have expander slowing your top speed down. I did a quick test with an Exequror Crusier but I was in the wrong base so didnÆt have the best equipment. I got 18.4 per second using T1 modules and 2 slots free for hardeners or other modules. Not that good really worse then a T1 mid booster. ôJust get the whole range and swap the right ones in before a mission.ö Right now I just use one setup that covers everything as I never no what weapons will be used if someone does catchÆs me and forceÆs me into PvP. But for the hard level 3 missions and for sure level 4 missions thatÆs a good idea I didnÆt think off. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.05 10:12:00 - [10] öPottsey: have you tried passively tanking a cruiser class? or would that simply give too low an output due to lack of slots?ö It works well on a mark 5 Indi which has loads of slots but little cap making boosters hard to run. But that does mean cutting down on cargo space from lack of cargo expander at the same time you donÆt have expander slowing your top speed down. I did a quick test with an Exequror Crusier but I was in the wrong base so didnÆt have the best equipment. I got 18.4 per second using T1 modules and 2 slots free for hardeners or other modules. Not that good really worse then a T1 mid booster. ôJust get the whole range and swap the right ones in before a mission.ö Right now I just use one setup that covers everything as I never no what weapons will be used if someone does catchÆs me and forceÆs me into PvP. But for the hard level 3 missions and for sure level 4 missions thatÆs a good idea I didnÆt think off. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.07 17:41:00 - [11] ö Did anybody do some testing on the assault ships (frigs and especially cruisers)?ö Sorry not got the skill to fly those so I cannot test. ôthe magic value explained by dust puppy.ö But that post by Dust Puppy was about reactor cap. We are assuming shield rechargeÆs in the same way as reactor cap. But no one has ever done a detailed test as far as I now. There is always the chance shield cap recharges slower or faster then the reactor cap. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.07 17:41:00 - [12] ö Did anybody do some testing on the assault ships (frigs and especially cruisers)?ö Sorry not got the skill to fly those so I cannot test. ôthe magic value explained by dust puppy.ö But that post by Dust Puppy was about reactor cap. We are assuming shield rechargeÆs in the same way as reactor cap. But no one has ever done a detailed test as far as I now. There is always the chance shield cap recharges slower or faster then the reactor cap. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.07 20:20:00 - [13] Being a Gallente pilot I cannot fly and test the Tempest. I have been told it makes a good ship but donÆt know for sure. If I had one I would be tempted to try 6 shield relays in the low slots. 3 large shield extender in the mid slot. 1 shield recharger mid slot. For the last mid slot either a passive EM shield hardener or another shield extender. I might even scarp the shield recharger and fit in a 2nd hardener. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.07 20:20:00 - [14] Being a Gallente pilot I cannot fly and test the Tempest. I have been told it makes a good ship but donÆt know for sure. If I had one I would be tempted to try 6 shield relays in the low slots. 3 large shield extender in the mid slot. 1 shield recharger mid slot. For the last mid slot either a passive EM shield hardener or another shield extender. I might even scarp the shield recharger and fit in a 2nd hardener. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.09 17:15:00 - [15] "Pottsey, how big number you got in formula (cap capascity)/(cap recharge)*2,4 on your Domenyx using passive shielding?" The best I pulled off is 108 a second while in a group. Without a group 102. My favourite setup is lower and I forgot the details. It was 2 hardeners which lowered the total shield recharge down to 80 or 90ish but due to the hardeners I could take more EM and Thermal damage. "How big this number must be?" ThatÆs hard to say and it depends on what you do. If you want to have the same shield recharge as a T1 large shield booster then you need have 40 per second. If you want to have the same shield recharge as a T2 large shield booster you need to get 60 per second. An Extra large shield booster T1 is 80 per second. öHave you tryed it in PvP?ö Yes I had friendly PvP matchÆs against corp mates in Scorp Battleships. None of them managed to take my shields down even when they used EM and I had no EM hardeners on. Only ever gone against Scorp battleships so I have no idea how it holds out against other Battleships. öAlso I'm intrested in geting T2 Shield recharges and Shield Power Relays. Anyone have info on where or from whom I cang et thous items?ö Good luck, it took me months to find T2 shield recharges. I ended up placing buy orders and asking on market between 2 to 4million one I bought at 20 million but 4 is the normal price. I never did find anyone who could build them, only people who had them laying around for sale. As for the T2 shield relays I donÆt think anyone can build them yet, as I have not found any to buy. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.09 17:15:00 - [16] "Pottsey, how big number you got in formula (cap capascity)/(cap recharge)*2,4 on your Domenyx using passive shielding?" The best I pulled off is 108 a second while in a group. Without a group 102. My favourite setup is lower and I forgot the details. It was 2 hardeners which lowered the total shield recharge down to 80 or 90ish but due to the hardeners I could take more EM and Thermal damage. "How big this number must be?" ThatÆs hard to say and it depends on what you do. If you want to have the same shield recharge as a T1 large shield booster then you need have 40 per second. If you want to have the same shield recharge as a T2 large shield booster you need to get 60 per second. An Extra large shield booster T1 is 80 per second. öHave you tryed it in PvP?ö Yes I had friendly PvP matchÆs against corp mates in Scorp Battleships. None of them managed to take my shields down even when they used EM and I had no EM hardeners on. Only ever gone against Scorp battleships so I have no idea how it holds out against other Battleships. öAlso I'm intrested in geting T2 Shield recharges and Shield Power Relays. Anyone have info on where or from whom I cang et thous items?ö Good luck, it took me months to find T2 shield recharges. I ended up placing buy orders and asking on market between 2 to 4million one I bought at 20 million but 4 is the normal price. I never did find anyone who could build them, only people who had them laying around for sale. As for the T2 shield relays I donÆt think anyone can build them yet, as I have not found any to buy. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.09 19:19:00 - [17] ôcould i use the same method you use to calculate shield tanking, for my own cap recharge? (max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4 also, if you know the answer to this, at what point is the 2.4 multiplier in effect, 20-30% cap?ö Yes you can use (max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4. In fact I borrowed the reactor cap math and used in on the shields so its more accurate/correct for the reactor cap. 2.4 multiplier is in effect at 30%cap give or take 2%. Shields donÆt seem to be the same which is why I say 20-30 for shields. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.09 19:19:00 - [18] ôcould i use the same method you use to calculate shield tanking, for my own cap recharge? (max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4 also, if you know the answer to this, at what point is the 2.4 multiplier in effect, 20-30% cap?ö Yes you can use (max capacity/recharge time)* 2.4. In fact I borrowed the reactor cap math and used in on the shields so its more accurate/correct for the reactor cap. 2.4 multiplier is in effect at 30%cap give or take 2%. Shields donÆt seem to be the same which is why I say 20-30 for shields. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.09 19:54:00 - [19] öThanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge?ô It gets slower under 30% the lower it gets the slower it gets. öalso, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargersô Cap batteries and recharges are better then pure recharges. The same is for shields. Shield extenders and shield recharges are better then pure shield recharges. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.09 19:54:00 - [20] öThanks for your quick reply, when you say the multiplier is in effect at 30%, does that mean that below 30%, i will actually get faster recharge?ô It gets slower under 30% the lower it gets the slower it gets. öalso, in follow up to my first post, would using a combonation of cap batteries and rechargers yield a potentially better figure as far as cap recharged per second? as opposed to just going with straight rechargersô Cap batteries and recharges are better then pure recharges. The same is for shields. Shield extenders and shield recharges are better then pure shield recharges. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.16 18:04:00 - [21] Must have skills for passive shield tanking. The nice thing about passive tanking is the needed skills are all low rank so easy to train. Rank 1 Engineering at least to level 3. I assume most people have this at level 5 anyway. ItÆs a must have skill for just about everyone. Rank 1 Science at level 1. Needed before you can train up certain shield skills. Rank 1 Shield Operation take to level 5, gives 5% shield recharge boost per level Rank 3 Shield Management take to Level 5, gives 5% shield cap per level Rank 2 Energy Grid upgrades at level 2 needed for PDUÆs and Shield relays. Rank 2 leadership at Level 2 Only needed if you plan to use Escort Tactics. Rank 2 Shield upgrades at lest level 3, 5% less power needs for shield extender and recharges. Needed at level 3 for Large shield extenders T2. Needed at Level 4 if you use T2 shield recharges. Rank 2 Escort Tactics gives 2% extra shield cap per level when in a group. Very nice if you spend time in groups. If you solo then itÆs a waste of time. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.16 18:04:00 - [22] Must have skills for passive shield tanking. The nice thing about passive tanking is the needed skills are all low rank so easy to train. Rank 1 Engineering at least to level 3. I assume most people have this at level 5 anyway. ItÆs a must have skill for just about everyone. Rank 1 Science at level 1. Needed before you can train up certain shield skills. Rank 1 Shield Operation take to level 5, gives 5% shield recharge boost per level Rank 3 Shield Management take to Level 5, gives 5% shield cap per level Rank 2 Energy Grid upgrades at level 2 needed for PDUÆs and Shield relays. Rank 2 leadership at Level 2 Only needed if you plan to use Escort Tactics. Rank 2 Shield upgrades at lest level 3, 5% less power needs for shield extender and recharges. Needed at level 3 for Large shield extenders T2. Needed at Level 4 if you use T2 shield recharges. Rank 2 Escort Tactics gives 2% extra shield cap per level when in a group. Very nice if you spend time in groups. If you solo then itÆs a waste of time. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.20 17:56:00 - [23] öFerox setup as follows: Hi- 5*Heavy missile Launcher 2*Heavy Electron Blaster Mid- 2*Large Shield Extender II 2*Shield Recharge I 1*10mw AB I Low- 3*Shield Power Relay I 1*Power Diagnostic Iö Nice setup but whatÆs the PDU for? Did you try swapping the PDU for another Shield relay? As for the mid slots what about taking out 1 shield recharger for a EM or another passive hardener? Or instead of a hardener use a 3rd T2 large shield extender. If you do need the PDU for power I guess you can always swap it for a PDU T2. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.20 17:56:00 - [24] öFerox setup as follows: Hi- 5*Heavy missile Launcher 2*Heavy Electron Blaster Mid- 2*Large Shield Extender II 2*Shield Recharge I 1*10mw AB I Low- 3*Shield Power Relay I 1*Power Diagnostic Iö Nice setup but whatÆs the PDU for? Did you try swapping the PDU for another Shield relay? As for the mid slots what about taking out 1 shield recharger for a EM or another passive hardener? Or instead of a hardener use a 3rd T2 large shield extender. If you do need the PDU for power I guess you can always swap it for a PDU T2. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.20 17:58:00 - [25] ôI'm interested to see how a passive setup fairs while sentry tanking I don't quite think it will cut it tbh.. but will be fun finding out ô How much damage do sentry guns do per second? If its one damage type perhaps you could use 3 hardeners. I might try this on the test server if people want me to. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.20 17:58:00 - [26] ôI'm interested to see how a passive setup fairs while sentry tanking I don't quite think it will cut it tbh.. but will be fun finding out ô How much damage do sentry guns do per second? If its one damage type perhaps you could use 3 hardeners. I might try this on the test server if people want me to. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.22 08:16:00 - [27] Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 08:26:28 ôI'd guess it's pretty limited in the long run... not even the actual combat, but the very low cap recharge means after warping across few systems (each warp in those larger systems can take 1/3rd to half of your cap, sometimes more) you're left at mercy of whatever force happens to roll your way... simply because if you don't manage to put your nosferatu on anything, you're left stranded for long time without cap to warp. ^^;;ö True you do need the level 5 skill that gives -50% to warp cap used. If I have to make a long trip I disable two modules or jump 3 or 5 jumps dock and undock and warp again. Only the Domi with 7 relays should have that problem the other ships with less relays should have enough cap charge with -50% warp cap drain to warp as long as they want. ItÆs certainly not a good setup to chase people down across sectors due to the lack of top speed and shorter warp rangeÆs. Its more of a support ship someone goes in with warp scrabbles while you warp in after them to shoot or tank. Has anyone got it working in PvP? I dont really do much PvP and its always in the same system I as am in. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.22 08:16:00 - [28] Edited by: Pottsey on 22/12/2004 08:26:28 ôI'd guess it's pretty limited in the long run... not even the actual combat, but the very low cap recharge means after warping across few systems (each warp in those larger systems can take 1/3rd to half of your cap, sometimes more) you're left at mercy of whatever force happens to roll your way... simply because if you don't manage to put your nosferatu on anything, you're left stranded for long time without cap to warp. ^^;;ö True you do need the level 5 skill that gives -50% to warp cap used. If I have to make a long trip I disable two modules or jump 3 or 5 jumps dock and undock and warp again. Only the Domi with 7 relays should have that problem the other ships with less relays should have enough cap charge with -50% warp cap drain to warp as long as they want. ItÆs certainly not a good setup to chase people down across sectors due to the lack of top speed and shorter warp rangeÆs. Its more of a support ship someone goes in with warp scrabbles while you warp in after them to shoot or tank. Has anyone got it working in PvP? I dont really do much PvP and its always in the same system I as am in. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.22 16:55:00 - [29] There are 4 new implants that help passive tanking and you can use two at once. Implant's Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KYA1000 2% or KYA2000 5% to shield recharge rate. Slot 9 Zainou 'Gnome' KVA1000 implant- 2% Bonus Shield Capacity there is also a KVA 2000 for 5% boost. Slot 7 _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.22 16:55:00 - [30] There are 4 new implants that help passive tanking and you can use two at once. Implant's Hardwiring - Zainou 'Gnome' KYA1000 2% or KYA2000 5% to shield recharge rate. Slot 9 Zainou 'Gnome' KVA1000 implant- 2% Bonus Shield Capacity there is also a KVA 2000 for 5% boost. Slot 7 _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.27 14:18:00 - [31] ôSince the problem is cap and recharge speed, could a large shield booster + a PDU II give you "the best of both worlds" in addition to all passive mods?ö 1 PDU II might work on a scorp due to the extra shield cap as 5% to that large shield is a lot. But on a Domi the PDU 5% hitpoints boost and 8.5% shield recharge gives less hitpoints per second then 1 shield relay at 20%. I used to use 2 PDU just for a decent shield recharge but now I swapped ammo so I donÆt use PDUÆs. Has anyone with a scorp or Raven tested 1 PDU over 1 shield relay? If its going work its going be on those two ships. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.27 14:18:00 - [32] ôSince the problem is cap and recharge speed, could a large shield booster + a PDU II give you "the best of both worlds" in addition to all passive mods?ö 1 PDU II might work on a scorp due to the extra shield cap as 5% to that large shield is a lot. But on a Domi the PDU 5% hitpoints boost and 8.5% shield recharge gives less hitpoints per second then 1 shield relay at 20%. I used to use 2 PDU just for a decent shield recharge but now I swapped ammo so I donÆt use PDUÆs. Has anyone with a scorp or Raven tested 1 PDU over 1 shield relay? If its going work its going be on those two ships. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.28 10:21:00 - [33] Edited by: Pottsey on 28/12/2004 10:22:57 ôMy logic over when to use shield extenders also applies to the PDSà Its hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.ö I just did some testing on the Domi and I agree shield extenders are better then shield recharges in the mid slots. But PDS are not better in the low slots. With shield relays its 11602 shield cap with 262 shield recharge giving 106.2 shield points a second. With 1 PDS I have 12182 shield cap with 299 shield recharge giving 97.7 shield points. For every PDS I install over a shield relay the shield points per seconds drops. That was also T2 PDS v T1 Shield Relay. I have been trying to get PDS to work and they are useable just not as good as shield relays. I wonder if with 7 PDS's could you run 1 large shield booster? Or perhaps some active hardners. ôIts hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.ö For me it was fewer weapons as the PDS takes up extra CPU while the relays take up no CPU for named items or 1 per normal module meaning I could not fit my normal load out with 1 PDS installed. Also if we ever get shield relay T2 they boost power grid by 10% per module. ôp.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%.ö Are we talking about T1 or T2? Not that it matters as you pointed out before its better to use shield extenders and hardeners in the mid slots over shield recharges. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.28 10:21:00 - [34] Edited by: Pottsey on 28/12/2004 10:22:57 ôMy logic over when to use shield extenders also applies to the PDSà Its hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.ö I just did some testing on the Domi and I agree shield extenders are better then shield recharges in the mid slots. But PDS are not better in the low slots. With shield relays its 11602 shield cap with 262 shield recharge giving 106.2 shield points a second. With 1 PDS I have 12182 shield cap with 299 shield recharge giving 97.7 shield points. For every PDS I install over a shield relay the shield points per seconds drops. That was also T2 PDS v T1 Shield Relay. I have been trying to get PDS to work and they are useable just not as good as shield relays. I wonder if with 7 PDS's could you run 1 large shield booster? Or perhaps some active hardners. ôIts hard to argue with 8.5% but its a valid trade off if you can fit stronger weapons since I believe strong offence beats defence in general.ö For me it was fewer weapons as the PDS takes up extra CPU while the relays take up no CPU for named items or 1 per normal module meaning I could not fit my normal load out with 1 PDS installed. Also if we ever get shield relay T2 they boost power grid by 10% per module. ôp.s. i was wrong, rechargers give 10% rate increase not 15%.ö Are we talking about T1 or T2? Not that it matters as you pointed out before its better to use shield extenders and hardeners in the mid slots over shield recharges. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.29 11:56:00 - [35] Edited by: Pottsey on 29/12/2004 12:06:35 ôI was wondering when i read these number how many 50% hardener you could fit to acheive such number ? 100 hp/s is sweet, but with crappy resist, this is worse than 40 hp/s with 60+ resist to all (more if your opponents use lasers...)ö That 100+ hp/s was just a test to see if PDS modules are worth using. My combat setup has 2 hardeners and 75 hp/s. I think it was 75 it might be a little higher now I have my new implant with 2% extra cap. It should be possible to hit 80 to 85 hp/s with the best implants. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2004.12.29 11:56:00 - [36] Edited by: Pottsey on 29/12/2004 12:06:35 ôI was wondering when i read these number how many 50% hardener you could fit to acheive such number ? 100 hp/s is sweet, but with crappy resist, this is worse than 40 hp/s with 60+ resist to all (more if your opponents use lasers...)ö That 100+ hp/s was just a test to see if PDS modules are worth using. My combat setup has 2 hardeners and 75 hp/s. I think it was 75 it might be a little higher now I have my new implant with 2% extra cap. It should be possible to hit 80 to 85 hp/s with the best implants. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.07 21:31:00 - [37] Has anyone tried passive tanking a Covert Op ship? I did and had loads of fun. Turns out the extra slots and CPU on a Helios work well. I used shield relays in the low slots 2 passive hardeners in the mid slot and the rest small shield extenders T2. DidnÆt have my covert op module on so I used 2, 75mm gatling guns and a 1 Hammerhead drone due to the Thermal damage boost from the ship. I then soloed the 1/10 Serpentis Drug complex with just over 20 rats in the last section. I thought that was pretty impressive without using boosters and orbiting without afterburners at 5km. WouldnÆt have been possible if I did use the Covert Op module perhaps it would have if I keep at range but 1 weapon wouldnÆt have been enough at close range. Surprisingly reactor cap was not a problem with lead ammo. That was my biggest worry running out of cap in a complex. I bet am Assault ship would do even better just I find Covert op ships more fun to fly. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.08 23:28:00 - [38] I have a Shield Recharge II module for sale the only catch is its in GQ2S-8 system and I cannot move it. I bought it by escrow of a friend and its 126 jumps from my home base. But if anyone is in that are and wants it make me an offer. I know some of you have been looking for these for ages. I only have 1 for sale. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.13 17:27:00 - [39] ôNow I do have a question, what is the lowest number for pasive tanking you would suggest. I am currently getting 13.6 under the formula you posted..ö ThatÆs a tricky one I aim for a minimum of 15+ along with +2 hardeners with a cruiser and for a Battleship 70+ with 2 hardeners the more the better. Without hardeners for a cruiser you want 20+ and 100+ for a Battleship. But I recommended hardeners. With the Ferox built in 5% shield resistanceÆs per level you might be able to get away without hardeners or perhaps 1 em hardener. 13.6 seems a little low to me for a Battlecrusier but as you said your skills are low and my numbers are for level 5 skills. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.13 20:45:00 - [40] ôHow does this work on a typhoon with its 7 lows and decent sheild?ö It should work ok as the weapons are low cap usage. 2 hardeners and 2 large shield Extenders T2 with a load of shield power relays. I only fly Gallante ships my self so not tested it but the theory says it works. Give it a go on the test server and report back if it works or not. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.15 19:42:00 - [41] ôCurrent shield/s 2,540 / 294 = 8.64 * 2.3 = 19.87 (20.73) Does this seem extremely low, ô That seems about right to me. I wouldnÆt say its extremely low a T1 mid booster gives 20 per second. So a passive setup of 20.73 is not bad of course the active setup could fit a harder without lowering that 20 per second along with a shield amp. But could the active setup keep that 20 per second boost going for 5+ minuets? Did you use T2 shield expanders? What about the shield cap boosting implant and shield recharge implant? Or the 3 shield skills that boost shield cap and shield recharge are they on max? You should be able to get a bit better then 20 points per second matching a T1 booster with amp. A lot better once T2 shield relays come out. Personally I would try and fit two passive hardeners to that setup 1 EM and 1 thermal. It might not beat boosters but it should be useable on that ship. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.26 08:17:00 - [42] Edited by: Pottsey on 26/01/2005 08:25:51 If you have time test in a group with the 3rd shield cap skill the one that only works in groups/gangs and the two shield implants. All 3 give a nice little boost _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.26 08:23:00 - [43] ôwould love to see a spreadsheet or something where you busted these calculations outö If enough people send me data I can put in ships into a spreadsheet. Please Eve mail or Email me [email protected] the ship, shield cap, shield recharge, reactor cap, reactor recharge, resistance, amount of active hardeners, amount of Passive hardeners. Free slots. The above will all be needed. If you have time a few module layout would be helpful but can be skiped. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.26 18:01:00 - [44] http://www.dissonance-corp.com/files/Passive tanking beta 0.2.xls A very beta file contained data on passive tanked ships. It lists ships and how many hitpoints per second they get. Can people give me feedback on what they want to see before I spend ages on it. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.28 21:45:00 - [45] Edited by: Pottsey on 28/01/2005 21:46:34 Can anyone help me work out the passive shield recharge curve? If so please here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=146168&page=1#9 öHI: 4x Siege launchers, 1x 250mm railgun MED: 1x Lif Booster, 3x hardeners, 4x shield booster II LOW: 3x Shield power relay, 1x power diagnostic CPU 890.7/900 PG 9293/11340 Shield Cap: 12369 Recharge rate: 805 secö Not to sure what you mean by life booster and you donÆt want to be using shield boosters. Swap out the 4 shield boosters for 4 T2 large shield extenders. Take out the life booster and fit a 5th large T2 shield extenders. Now try and swap that last PDS for a 4th shield relay. Make sure you have the shields skill at high level. I donÆt see a reason to use the PDS. Keep the 3 hardners. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.01.29 18:53:00 - [46] öIf anyone can beat, or get close to, 221 equivalent-HP per second using their worst resist, I'll be very impressed ô I think I am on 140 to 150 now for my worst resistance it all depends on the shield curve. 200 should be easy to break with T2. I also use passive hardeners so I could swap to active hardeners or named passive hardeners for 10 to 20% extra resistance getting me even closer. Then again the more I look at the shield recharge rate the more I am convinced we have the curve wrong. Does anyone know if the shield recharge counter is in seconds or faster the seconds. I mean when you move the mouse of the shield bars you can see the shield hitpoints ticking up fast. What speed is that? _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.02.20 20:25:00 - [47] ôWith 4 shield power relays, 3 shield rechargers and 4 large shield extender II's, he's only getting about 23 shield per second. What are we doing wrong?ö Perhaps using the wrong formula as that seems very low. WhatÆs the shield cap and shield recharge? A Scorpion should be able to pull off 100 to 130 per second. Is he using T2 shield recharger or T1? If itÆs T1 perhaps scarp then and fit 1 more shield extender and 2 hardeners. ôWhere are people up to on this?ö I am pretty much stuck on improvements until someone sells me a shield relay T2 or shield Flux T2. Currently playing around with mixing in 2 PDSÆs now without PDSÆs but 2 Nos. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.02.20 21:35:00 - [48] Edited by: Pottsey on 20/02/2005 21:38:08 ôtotal shield = 10701 recharge time = 477ö So its 10701 / 477 = 22.43 * 2.5 = 56 hitpoints per second. Better then you first thought but still on the poor side. Must be those shield rechargeÆs try taking them out and fitting more shield extenders. I donÆt use shield recharge in my mid slots any more I found shield extenders gave me more hitpoints per second. Those two shield implants that cost less then a mill each are worth getting. The shields get stronger and recharge faster the lower they get. DonÆt worry if the first 50% goes down fast once you get under 50% the shields should almost double to triple in speed. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.02.22 17:15:00 - [49] ThatÆs not true Gallente are the best I hold most of the shield recharge records and I only fly Gallente. Due to all the low slots Gallente tend to come out best. You get more befit from shield relays then you do shield extenders or mid slot shield rechargeÆs. Caldari tend to have few lot slots. I donÆt think any Caldari ship has ever come close to my fastest Gallente shield recharge rate. Caldari are good at passive tanking just not the best. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.03.01 06:59:00 - [50] Edited by: Pottsey on 01/03/2005 07:02:36 ôIMO you'll have a bad time with that on L3 missions, and it's probably worth not passive tanking and using stand-off tactics (this method will, as is mentioned, completely kill your cap, which means a fast disengage with afterburners isn't much of an option)ö ItÆs not that bad, you donÆt have a massive drain from boosters so the little cap recharge you get should be enough for afterburners and weapons. I use 3 to 4 shield relays on my Domi and never run out of cap even with large Neutron blasters and afterburner. Unless of course you use lasers then it will be a problem. Or if you use 5+ Shield Relays I found that caused problems. ôcos with the Med shield booster tech II I'll get 90 every 3 seconds so: 7.2 * 3 = 21.6/sö You are comparing a T1 passive setup against a T2 shield booster. Try swapping in 2 shield extenders T2 and scarp the mid slot shield recharge module or compare to a T1 shield booster. ItÆs not uncommon for Passive setups to get less then active boosters, the catch is passive setups run for ever and you donÆt need to warp out to charge your reactor up. The other bonus is passive setups are on 24/7. Saying that I do find Cruisers very hard to setup as a passive tank. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.03.01 07:06:00 - [51] ôWould it be better to just go all the way with the extenders, or would fitting hardeners be better to tank the best?ö ThatÆs a hard question to answer it depends on the ship. On my Domi I found 2 hardeners worked best with extenders adding a 3rd hardener lowered the overall damage I could take. I also found that fitting pure shield extenders didnÆt work out best, 1 shield recharge mid slot module with rest shield extenders gave me the most hitpoints. Overall the best was no mid slot shield recharge, 2 hardeners rest shield extenders. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.03.02 18:24:00 - [52] I have to agree put that cap to use with that many nosÆs why not try running all the mid slots with those 25% to all resistance shield modules and the low slots with cap relays or perhaps PDUÆs so you get a low passive tank with very high resistance. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.04.12 21:15:00 - [53] ôPottsey nice thread you have here. `i was wondering since i fly a dominix too, whether you could detail for me a break down of what to fit in order to passive tank.ö ThatÆs a bit tricky as I keep changing depending on the mission and my mood. In the low slot I used to use 7 shield relays. Recently I swapped in 2 to 3 PDS module which lower my shield regen but gives a lot more cap to play with. 7 relays means after 10 mins of shooting I run out of cap and only have drones left. But if I swap in 2 or 3 PDS modules my cap holds for hours and I can do long jump trips (15+ gates) with an afterburner. Pure relays and afterburners mean dead cap after 5 jumps. In the high slots I use 1 cloak, 1 auto targeting module and the rest Neutron blasters. With the patch change to Neutron blasters powergrid and with 1 more level to the shield skill that lowers shield extenders powergrid I should hopefully have enough powergrid left for extra Neutron blasters. In the mid slots fit 1 afterburner, 1 thermal shield passive, 1 EM shield passive hardeners. Rest large T2 shield extenders. If you know what damage the rats do swap the hardeners over to what ever fits bests being lasy I just stick with the above hardners for all missions. If you donÆt care about speed scarping the afterburner for a shield recharge module or another shield extenders should make you tougher but I prefer the speed boost. If you need more powergrid for weapons use more PDS modules but each one you fit lowers you overall regen. Another option would be to scarp large shield extenders and fit extra shield rechargeÆs like the PDS option feeÆs up powergrid but lowers HP regen. Make sure you get the cheap sub 600k implants. 3% to shield recharge and 3% to hitpoint cap. The above is my NPC/Agent runner solo setup. I warp in point blank and let the rats hit me. My group setups are very different. Note: One option that should work but I have not tried is to take pure shield relays and fit in 1 cap booster. It means carrying around cap Charges but without the large drain from active shield boosters the charge from a 1 cap boost should last a while. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.05.25 18:52:00 - [54] Edited by: Pottsey on 25/05/2005 19:49:03 Shield Upgrades level 5 to reduce the powergrid taken up by Shield extenders, Shield Management & Shield Operation level 5 to make the shields stronger. Escort Tactics level 4 or 5 if you work in groups. Solo the skill is not needed. Makes your shields stronger. Electronics & Engineering for extra CPU and powergrid level 5. Shield extenders take up a fair amount of powergrid and CPU but if you base you ship around shield recharges you end up weaker but use up less CPU and powergrid. 2 cheap shield implants to boost shield recharge and shield hitpoints about 300k each. If you have the cash get the more expensive versions. Energy Management, Energy Systems operations, Weapons Upgrades. Its hard to say what level, I had them all at lvl 1 to 3 for ages but if you use shield relays then you might want the energy skills at lvl 5. If CPU is a problem then bump up Weapons upgrades. I guess if the passive tank is based on PDS modules over Shield relays you can skip the energy skills. EDIT: Has anyone tried the new shield extenders on the test server since they reset the shield recharge skill back to how it used to be.? Passive tanking just got a very nice boost. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.05.26 05:28:00 - [55] ôGetting a few wreckings in one volley probably would do it but Pottsey has much more hands on experience on that than I and it might be that this has never happened but theoretically it's possible (I've never tried passive tanking ). So when passive tanking giving two shield setups with the same recharge rate I would always take the one with more shield hp, the same of course applies to cap.ö You are right but due to the high hitpoints firing all the weapons at once knocks you down around about 1%. My current ship has 12k hitpoints on the live server and it goes up to 18k on the test server. Also the shields only lose a small amount of regen below 30% so 29% isnÆt noticeable slower. For your idea to work you would have to knock the shields from 30 to under 25% perhaps even 30 to under 20%. Once you take shield resistance into account itÆs not easy to knock a 12 or 18k shields down 5% in 1 volley. I have seen the effect you described before when someone hit me and each volley took me down more then 5%. Although there DPS was lower then my regen at one point a fluke hit put me below my peak regen just enough for him to knock my shields down. But this was during testing and my shields still hold up for 2 to 4 minuets before he got he fluke hit. ItÆs rare enough that I donÆt worry about it and its even more rare with the new shield extenders. Though people you use shield recharges over shield extenders do have a problem. I found another side effect of passive tanking a few days ago. For short high damage battles where shield boosters only get 1 or 5 bursts off passive tanking is better. It takes an extra Large Shield booster T2 about 1 minuet to heal the same amount of damage as the test server passive tanks base hitpoints. So if the battle is with damage mods in theory someone could do 15k damage in 1 minuet kill the active shield booster T2 setup but the passive tank lives. ThatÆs without taking into account the passive tank regen. High damage short 1 minuet battles seem to favour the high hitpoints based ships. I do wonder how a T2 large shield extender, 7 damage mod, T2 Domininx would fair in PvP 1v1. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.05.26 17:59:00 - [56] My battleship is at 154 hp/s on the test server as a passive shield tank. ThatÆs 770hpÆs over 5 seconds. That beats an extra large shield booster T2 which is only 600 over 5 seconds. But I do use up more slots. ôit regenerates best at around 35%. So passive tanking gets better as your shields go lower until 35%, if it can't hold after that then your tanking goes to poo because regeneration rates quickly fall from 35-0.ö The peak is at 30% not 35% and going below 30% has a low impact. You donÆt start losing lots until you get under 20% and there is drastic drop at 10%. At 10% its time to start warping out and due to the high hitpoints left even at 10% you tend to have time to warp out. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.06.19 07:33:00 - [57] ô2x Large Extenders 1x Kinetic Amp1 1x Thermal Amp1 1x EM Amp1 4x Shield power Relay1ö On my Dominix I found out that 1 Invulnerability field and PDS modules worked well. Perhaps if you scarp the 3 hardeners, fit 1 Invulnerability field then fit more shield extenders and take out the 4 shield relays and put in 4 PDS modules. Powergrid should be ok but CPU might be a problem, you might need 1 CPU booster and 3 PDS modules. It might not work on a Ferox so can you let us know how well it goes. DonÆt forget shield extenders are getting a big boost in the up coming patch which also boosts our passive tanks setups. _________________________________________________ Gallente defensive innovation comes from unexpected source. Pottsey Posted - 2005.06.26 07:58:00 - [58] That used to be an easy question to answer now itÆs a little more tricky. I cannot fly either ship as I refuse to get into Caldari ship but in theory the Scorp should make the better passive tank. The Raven has more firepower, if you kill faster you have to tank less. Do you PvP or PvE? With the new shield extenders from the upcoming patch the Scorp seems far better from a defence point of view as you can get very high hitpoints. I tend to now go for hitpoints over regen. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.07.27 11:28:00 - [59] ôalso REALLY want to see the stats that pottsey could get out of passive tanking a rattlesnakeö If someone wants to lend me one on the test server I will train the skills up to try it. I assume no one will lend me one on the live server. ôafter all - what else is your caps gonna be used on?ö A little under underappreciated module call an Invulnerability Field. Most people think they are useless due to the cap drain but if you can run them they can give more resistance then using 4 normal hardeners. My 2 dread fields give me 55% EM, 64% Thermal, 73% Kinetic, 81% Explosive. I believe thatÆs better then using 4 officer active hardeners that give 55% to each. I say its better not because I get more resistance but because the modules are cheaper and I get the same resistance as 4 hardeners but I only use 2 slots. Just think what happens if I use 3 or 4 slots. 4 is a little tricky to run, I can only run 3 none stop. ôy don't u use active hardeners - amplifiers really do blowö Part of the benefits of an passive tank is a fully passive tank has 0 cap drain so is immune to Nos and Cap nautiluses Which is usefull in PvP though pointless in PvE. I tend to either go fully passive with amplifiers or the other extreme end to Invulnerability Field. Recently I have tried playing with brute force HP regen and 0 hardeners. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.07.27 11:47:00 - [60] ôI get 8204 shields and 560 recharge, which is 14.65 shield/s. Crap, I know.ö 8204 hitpoints and 560 recharge is 36.62 HP regen. You do shield Hitpoints / shield cap *2.5 to work out peak HP regen. Average regen over a battle is the same just replace 2.5 with 2.2 or 2.0, _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.07.27 15:21:00 - [61] ôWhat are the problems? - Grid - Grid - Gridö This isnÆt directed at anyone just a general guideline as some people tend to forget about the other modules. There are 3 solutions I can think of right now, first fit shield recharges over shield extenders this frees up grid but lowers your HP regen by a small amount sometimes. On my Domi 4 shield extenders are better then 4 shield recharges but in the 5th slot 1 shield recharge module gives the same benefit as a 5th shield extenders. Solution 2 use PDS modules, the downside is the higher CPU usage and less HP regen but you do gain cap. Solution 3 use the -5% Shield extender powergrid implants though personally I prefer the other shield implants. ôUnless you have some really specific use in mind I can't see that there's much life in this direction. I can't think of anything that you could fit in a couple of slots that could provide as much benefit as those invulnerability fields.ö When using brute force HP regen I have 156 HP/s that means to break the tank you have to do a good 190+ HP/s. I found for PvE being able to tank 190 HP/s is more then enough a lot of the time. ItÆs not the best setup ever but itÆs cheap and easy to use. You are almost always better off switching hardeners for the rats you face but if your lazy or swapping rats all the time brute force HP regen works. ôPottsey gank setup > passive setupö ThatÆs been proven wrong so many times I donÆt know where to start. Passive tanks often beat gank setups as the gank setup cannot kill the passive tank fast enough before its own weak tank dies if it even has a tank as pure gank setups donÆt tank. It isnÆt a clear 1 setup is better then the other its 50/50 at least thatÆs what my win ratio is right now. I heard other passive tankers are doing better then me for PvP. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.07.27 15:44:00 - [62] Edited by: Pottsey on 27/07/2005 15:44:57 ôalso, i REALLY want to see the stats that pottsey could get out of passive tanking a rattlesnake after the shield extender beef it has >8000 base shields, and 6midslots, 6 lowslots. even better, it needs gallente BS as well as caldari, so pottsey might fly one without her anti-caldari bigotry getting in the wayö Wow, after looking at that theoretical numbers I could hit 187.8 HP/s regen with 6 T1 modules. T2 modules are just amazing well over 200HP/s Sustainable. Could even be 250 but I am to lasy to work it out with T2 modules. Though choice what do I go for next a freighter or rattlesnake? Thanks for pointing that ship out to me. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.07.28 08:46:00 - [63] Edited by: Pottsey on 28/07/2005 08:47:03 ôcome on sisi I would like to test this I will be in a gank setup ship you can passive tank and i'll prove you wrongö Sure just give me a covo when you see me on the live server and if I am not busy I will swap over to the test server. I bet I last longer then an active tank and my ship is parked in the fight club star base so I can back up what I say. The only thing I ask is you take into account I mainly PvE so I will not do as well as the pure PvP people. IE my combat skills at mostly at lvl 3 and T1. But if I only just lose which is what should happen it will be clear someone who passive tanks with more then lvl 3 combat skills has a good chance to win. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.05 09:05:00 - [64] ôThis means warping in at distances, and having enough shield regen to survive a gank long enough to get out. Keeping in mind the ferox's ship bonuses, am I better off cramming t2 large extenders on it with PDS, or going for an active shield tank? Only has 5 midslots and 4 lows, remember.ö Against gank setups pure hitpoints is always better then HP regen. Active boosters donÆt get long enough to heal decent mount of hitpoints same for the HP regen on a passive tank. PDS also serve to points adding extra hitpoints and giving you enough cap to run modules. So I would go for that. I did a lot of testing and found hitpoints ships lasted a lot longer against gank ships then active shield boosters or passive regen ships. ôI have found the same. It's a little disappointing. Anyone found an effective lvl 3 / lvl 4 set-up for the Raven post-patch?ö I was helping Shaemell Buttleson with passive tank module and he says he came up with a great Raven setup that he soloed a solo a level 4 angel extravaganza missio. Copy and paste time ôjust to let you know i have pasive tamked a raven and have managed to solo a level 4 angel extravaganza mission. HI.... 6 cruise launchers MID 4 large t2 extenders, 1 EM ward, 1 shield recharger. LOW, 5 Shield Relays. I have all skills to 5 except shield management is lev4. only the 3% implants are in for the shield bonus's.ö Hopefully that helps someone. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.08 11:51:00 - [65] ôalltough it was the only item that used cap it drained it in a matter of minutes as the 5 shield relays seriously nerf the cap regen.ö Try swapping out some of the relays for PDS modules until you get enough cap to run the modules you want. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.10 09:36:00 - [66] Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 09:43:30 ôSince you got 50% more resistance than passive tank, that is comparable to 180/s passive.ö & ôImho passive is a lot worseö ThatÆs very unfair as passive tanks have hardeners to, some even 50% active hardeners. Also your active tank only boosted 3 types of resistance while my passive tank boosts all 4 types of resistance. Please compare your active with hardeners to a passive with hardeners. I donÆt know of many passive tankers that go around with no hardeners. ôThere are some uber modules like Gist Boosters that will laugh at any passive tank, lots less cap than Tech I or II, lots more tanking than any passive tankö I donÆt have a problem with active tankers comparing uber modules to passive tank setups as long as you do an active tank uber module compared to a passive tank uber module. ItÆs not really a good comparison to do an active tank with 1 module thatÆs costs more then the passive tank + ship. ôAn active tank can easily switch Large II vs. XLarge II and then tank 180/s active PLUS hardeners for at least 2Mins, not to mention that an enemy within NOS range will allow far longer tanking.ö I think you forgot to take into account the passive tanks totel hitpoint as often the total hitpoints are high enough on the passive to make up for less regen. Take my 21k shields with all 4 resistanceÆs boosted. It takes an extra large booster 7 minuets to heal as many hitpoints as I have base. An Xlarge T2 takes almost 4 minuets to heal as much as I have base. (Edit: If the enemy is shooting my resistance that I boosted and you did not as you only took 3 hardners the time goes up another 30%+ for the booster to catch up with my base hitpoints so 9.1 minuets for the large T2 shield booster) ThatÆs not taking into account my regen or your shield amps which might adjust it a minuet either way. I also assume most Xlarge T2 boosters cannot run for 4+ minuets. ôActive > Passive. Any time, any where. Ganking > Tanking. Most times :Pö I donÆt agree. When someone deals enough damage to kill you in fewer than 2 minuets the shield booster has healed way under half of what the passive tank would have as base hitpoints so the active tank dies and the passive lives. Or you could say the passive tank lasts over twice as long as even without regen. Passive tanks work very well against gank ship due to this. ôIf you are at ~40% and a hard volley hits your shields, you easily fall below 30% which means again lot less recharge =>ö That doesnÆt happen most of the time 1 volley puts me down 1%. Enough damage to knock my shields down in 10% would kill an active tank ship in 1 or 2 volleys. While the passive tank would still have anther 9 volleys time to warp out. You seem to be basing a passive tank regen on a active tanks hitpoints. In which case what you say happens, but its extremely rare to see a passive tank with the same hitpoints as an active tank. Most passive tanks have triple to x5 more hitpoints. You can build passive tanks without extra hitpoints by using shield rechargeÆs over extenders but I donÆt recommend it as you end up with less passive regen and less hitpoints. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.10 12:49:00 - [67] Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 12:49:09 ôMy capacitor stops to go down at 29%ö Could you do me a favour and run that setup outside a stars base for an hour? I want to see if it really stabiliserÆs at 29% or just so slow that it takes a very long time to go down. Just if itÆs still at 29% after 1 hour then it proves cap does not peak at 30% but below 30% which goes against what everyone else says about cap and my own testing which gave me mixed results Nice setup by the way. Not many people get hybrids to work well. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.10 16:51:00 - [68] Edited by: Pottsey on 10/08/2005 16:53:56 ôYou either don't have 21k shields and 180 regen or hardeners, simply because you can not fit for both.ö ItÆs over 21k, with 37.5% to all resistance and 90 ish HP/Regen. I cannot post precise specs as I am in my support ship helping a gang. If you want I can post the percice specs later. ôI wonder what you are fitting, as you seem to have 21k shields PLUS hardeners and recharge of more than 90...if you do not active tank > passive...ö I have a different ship you didnÆt mention the ship in your first post, I also use T2 modules only, have both the shield implants and I use Invulnerability Field (s) to boost resistance. I like Invulnerability Fields as they boost all 4 types of resistance without taking up 4 slots. The key to using T2 shield extenders is you must have shield upgrades at level 5. The cheap sub 100k implants help a lot. The expensive 5% one even more. There are useful 3 types of shield implant but you can only fit 2 at once. ô3 Low slot shield regenerator (35% less cap, 15% more shield, tech II not possible due to PG needs)ö The T2 versions boost PG by 10% per module. I think you mean T2 not possible as you cannot find any to buy. ôUnless you prove me wrong, my earlier statements are valid and active > passive.ö Even with your ship 19k hp your active tank with 90 HP/s will take 3.5 minuets to heal the same amount of hitpoints as the passive has base. Only after 3.5mins the average regen on your passive tank will give another 6300 hitpoints. So your active tank then has to heal for another 1 minuet to catch up. I still stand by what I say if you take out 1 shield extender for 1 Invulnerability Field T2 and use max PDS T2 modules not shield relays and get the skills to fit T2 extenders the pure hitpoints makes up for the loss in regen. In fact as your useing 1 less extender you might even be able to swap to pure T2 extenders now without shield upgrades lvl 4 which I assume you dont have. I also work out average regen over at battle as 2.0 or 2.2 not 2.5. As 2.5 only works when the enemy cannot break your tank. But when battles last under 2 to 3 minets then your better with an active tank not passive as the ative tank dies while the Passive stays alive. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.22 22:27:00 - [69] Edited by: Pottsey on 22/08/2005 22:34:43 You can fix some of those problems by swapping the shield relays to PDS T2 modules. Now swap that Kinetic active hardener for a T2 Invulnerability field. You know have good all round resistances instead of only boosting Kinetic, enough cap to travel none stop and high hitpoints. You should also be able to run your weapons none stop. HP regen will drop but with the high hitpoints I find itÆs often a good trade off. You should have the same amount of base hitpoints as an active tank heals in 2 to 3 minuets. As long as CPU is ok due to the extra powergrid from the PDS modules you might even be able to swap the shield recharge module for another large shield extender. This should be enough to do level 4 missions as other passive tankers use the Raven to solo missions. You could even swap the shield recharger for an afterburner or target painter or something instead of another shield extender. You donÆt have to use every single slot just for passive tanking modules. ô2¦ Large TII + gistii small + amplifier is better.ö If your going compare an active tank with expensive named modules to a passive tank at least use decent expensive named modules for the passive tank. I donÆt think its fair to say look my active tank with this really expensive semi rare module beats your passive tank with common cheap modules. Please compare T2 to T2 or the rare stuff to the rare stuff. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.23 08:06:00 - [70] ô! Is there even named versions for most of the passive tanking stuff?ö Not most of the stuff but some of it. There are some great Invulnerability Fields that give 37 to 50% to all resistances. Then there are shield extenders like the Luther Veron's which give more then a T2 large extender. ThatÆs about it as far s I know. The rest of the named modules are not wroth talking about as all they do are lower or get rid of fitting requirements. Named relays have 0 powergrid usage. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.23 08:26:00 - [71] 44 peak or 38 average. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.23 08:34:00 - [72] Edited by: Pottsey on 23/08/2005 08:36:20 ôAssuming that the active hardener is an EM hardener, the ship can tank 84 raw dps or more with its passive recharge (the damage output of a "gank-punisher").ö ItÆs a hybrid ship so 101 hitpoints without taking into account resistance. Also of that was my ship I wouldnÆt use an EM hardner but a Invul field T2 but I could be wrong. It looks like he has the cap for a Inv field. base Thermal is also not 50% but 80% and with a field 87% _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.08.23 08:51:00 - [73] ôThe em (supposed t1 in my calculation) is pretty much needed as there is a hole in the shield resistance. And, the example was extreme, a blasterthron would struggle much more than the 'geddon to go through the shields.ö I edited my last post as you responded so you might have missed what I said. You knocked down the Thermal resistance from 80% to 50% thatÆs a massive loss and 30% resistance has a big impact on how much damage that gank ship does. You also did a maxed out T2 gank ship, then used T1 modules on the tank ship. T2 hardeners would have a big impact. You also halved the HP regen down to 42 when the real HP regen is 101. Redo you math with the correct HP regen and resistance with T1 modules or T2 and the ship will last longer then 23 seconds. If you have time try the math with a T2 Invul field giving 30% to all resistance over a EM hardener. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.09.03 14:57:00 - [74] ôpottsey i'd love to know if my math is right and if this is usefulö I have been a bit busy so I only taken a glance at it but it looks very useful. I edited it into my 2nd post so hopefully people can find and use it. I also edited in a few other notes like the code war shield extender change. For some reason I cannot edit my first post without losing half the text. I guess itÆs over the 4000 limit. Thanks for the spreadsheet, hopefully I get time to take a detailed look at it soon. It might help me choose between Dread Invulnerability fields and PDS modules or shield relays and passive hardeners. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.09.25 14:58:00 - [75] ôI was calculating a bid whit passice tanking on my raven and got something whit 20216 shields and 1026 secs to recharge (lv 4 skills no implants) which would be 19.6shields/s (49.1 at 30% shields) i was bid disapointed about the fact it would be only 49 (sure this is still boostable) and i was very surprised how pottseys domi can get 21k shields and 80 reg. does the lv 5 skills+ the implants make that massive difference or my math is just wrong?ö My record on the Domi is 156 HP regen with T1 shield relays but until I get T2 shield relays I am sticking to my mid HP regen PDS setup which is 22k shields and 72 HP regen solo (both numbers rounded). It only hits 80HP regen when I am in a group and my shield cap goes up to 24k ish. The other reason the Domi does so well over a Raven is the Domi has a lot more low and total slots. For passive tanking the low slots are better then mid slots in a lot of ways. The HardeningCalc.xls file by Aliksr which can be found at the start of this tread in my second post should help you work out what you will get with lvl 5 skills and implants so you can see if its worth takeing those skills to lvl 5. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2005.11.17 10:53:00 - [76] ôEnd of story: The passive setup worked great, but the fitting is so tight, that it doesn't leave room for either more speed or more damage (tho the drones alone did work ok, since my drone skills are crap).ö You will be pleased to know passive tanking is getting a large boost next patch. Shield extenders will use up far less PG and CPU so no more tight fittings and you can fit the biggest weapons. That and with the 25% hitpoint boost you can fit damage modules and still end up with a similar regen to what you have now. Previously you might use 2 mid and 1 large extender. Now you can fit 2 large extenders and fit EW in that 3rd slot. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2006.03.15 11:58:00 - [77] ôwhy the shield power relay and not PDUs? One of each? (a bone, please, trowed in this direction.....)ö Generally speaking the T1 shield relays will add more HP regen then a T2 PDS. But that shield regen comes at the cost of cap regen. So fit as many shield relays as you can then add just enough PDUÆs so your cap doesnÆt run out. On my Domi I use 5 shield relays then 2 PDS so my cap isnÆt a problem. Sometimes the PDS are better even with less regen due to the extra hitpoints. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2006.03.27 09:56:00 - [78] Edited by: Pottsey on 27/03/2006 10:04:50 "which implants help in passive tanking?ö ôwhich implants help in passive tanking?ö siege warfare mindlink boosts the HP rate 15% only when in gang. hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kva1000 boosts the HP rate 3% hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kva2000 boosts the HP rate 5% hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kya1000 boosts the recharge rate 3% hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kya2000 boosts the recharge rate 5% hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kua1000 reduces the shield upgrade module PG 3% hardwireing - zainou ' gnome ' kua2000 reduces the shield upgrade module PG 5% _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2006.03.29 18:14:00 - [79] ôcan you add the 5% shield hp increase implant and then place the 30% shield hp increase module on the ship, without causeing a penalty conflict between the two?ö The only 30% module I can think off boost active shield boosters not hitpoints. But shield implants do not have a stacking penalty. You can mix them with other modules that boost hitpoints without any problem. "Sorry to be a noodge, but if you could answer me a few questions about a certain ships potential for Passive tanking I would be greatly appreciative (See iskies)." ItÆs hard to choose the best setup without knowing what you do PvE, PvP and what type of play style. The strongest tank I could make is 3 large T2 shield extenders 2 Invul fields T2 and 5 shield relays T1. This gives roughly 123 HP regen give or take a little depending on skills, implants and gang skills. Assuming your hit with Em and Thermal you can tank roughly 543 DPS. Cap might be a problem you cannot leave the fields on none stop as they will over time drain all you cap. Not sure how long way over 5minuets perhaps a lot longer. If thatÆs a problem fitting 1 PDS instead of 1 relay or swapping 1 field for 1 extender should solve the problem, that or turn the fields off between battles. If your PvEing then scarp the invul fields and swap for passive or active hardeners that match the rats your facing. I only take fields as I hate swapping setups between missions. Another option is to go for hitpoints over regen. Take 2 invul fields and swap all 5 relays for 5 PDS modules. Note: Dread Invul fields do give a large impact on the tank. But priceÆs have shot though the roof recently. Due to the ships bonus active tanking might work better. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Posted - 2006.04.16 08:19:00 - [80] ôOne point I'd like to see addressed is exactly how shield resist mods affect effective shield hp. For example, mounting a single invuln fiel would give 25% all-round resistance,ö There are two good equations you can use to answer that. 2*122.2/((1-0.50)+(1-0.50))= Or 4*122.2/((1-0.50)+(1-0.72)+(1-0.50)+(1-050))= Replace 122.2 with your shield HP regen, replace the 50Æs with your shield resistance. So if regen is 90 EM resistance is 30% and thermal is 60% you do 2* 90/((1-0.30)+(1-0.60))= So to find out if 2 fields are better. Do the above formula with 1 field. Then lower the regen and up the resistance for the 2ed field and compare the two numbers. _________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. Pottsey Gallente Acme Shipping Inc Posted - 2006.11.13 17:34:00 - [81] "4x Shield Power Relay II" You might find those a bit of a problem to get hold off. As far as I can tell they are not out. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2006.12.18 10:24:00 - [82] There are no shield power relay II's yet. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2006.12.22 11:03:00 - [83] Shield Purger for 20% extras shield recharge seem the best rig. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2006.12.31 11:13:00 - [84] ôAm I doing something wrong, or could I possibly make any corrections to squeeze some more out of my Domi?ö I found the same thing the Domi is no longer the best T1 Gallant passive tankers which is a shame. I pretty much only use the Myrmidon and Eos now. R34PER you need to get 3 large T2 shield extenders. Cap should not be a problem so trying getting both cap skills to lvl 4 or 5. Or try extra PDS until you get more cap skills. DonÆt forget about the 2 cheap shield implants about 300k each. You say your cap stays at 70% try takeing out out the cap module and seeing if it runs out. You cap should stabilise between 30 to 50% your ok as long as it doesnÆt go below 30%. Shield Recharge rigs are best. Another option would be to take out the highest resistance active module and swap to passive until you fix the cap problem. Losing a bit of resistance but gaining all those extra hitpoints form the extender should work out better. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.01.03 07:07:00 - [85] "2 PDUS 1 Shield Flux Coil" Take the flux out another relay or PDS is much better. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.01.03 16:17:00 - [86] ôAint it possible then to combine active and passive on the Maelstrom?ö I guess you could use PDS T2 for cap for the booster and then use the 2 shield implants and skills for a low passive regen. Wont be much but even 20hp/s extra on top of a booster is nice. I never had any luck with hybrids. Pure active or passive seems to always work better. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.01.04 07:21:00 - [87] Edited by: Pottsey on 04/01/2007 07:23:09 ôNo flux? 10 sec recharge. 100 points.ö On a ship 1 flux module gives you less HP regen then 1 shield relay. The drop in hitpoints from the flux not only lowers hitpoint regen but lower Hitpoints mean your more likely to go below peak. Flux modules are always bad as 1 relay or if cap is a problem 1 PDS T2 is much better. Why lower Hitpoints when a T2 PDS boosts hitpoints and gives more HP regen then flux modules. When caps not a problem relays are best. As for my first post thereÆs a fair bit missing but at some point the max text per post was lowered. Every time I try and edit the first post I lose half of it. The post wasnÆt made to explain everything about tanking. It was only to explain shield recharge as back then nearly everything thought it was hitpoints/shield recharge = x. Most people thought passive tanking was 2.5 times worse then it was. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.01.14 10:49:00 - [88] For HP regen recharge rigs tend to work out better most of the time. Hitpoint rigs might be better for PvP though. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.01.19 12:54:00 - [89] I have been thinking about making a new thread, as I can no longer edit the first posts without losing half the text. But if I did I would want a website to go with it and thatÆs something I havenÆt got time to do. I have hosting and can deal with the uploading of files but has anyone got time and willing to run a webpage for me? I need to focus my ideas a little more but I was thinking along the lines of a new thread with how to passive tank linking to a website with various passive tank resourceÆs, ship setups perhaps with a database of fit/setups. WhatÆs preferred a new thread or just keep using this one going? If anyone has ideas or things they went to see in a new thread or website please eve mail me or Email at [email protected]. If you want to run part or all the a passive tanking website that would be great as well. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.02.11 19:48:00 - [90] The problem is time or lack of it. I have often thought about updating this thread and making a website perhaps in the summer holidays. For those who are not aware Shield Relays T2 and Shield Flux T2 modules are on the market. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.03.03 12:06:00 - [91] Edited by: Pottsey on 03/03/2007 12:04:26 Did you factor in 15% from mindlink? As you wrote 10% and later on mentioned mindlink. EDIT: Try running the numbers with 1 invul field, 2 extra shield extenders, no passive hardners and 1 PDS over 1 relay. No longer Nos immune but it might make a better tank if your PvEing. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.03.03 13:37:00 - [92] Mindlink gives a 15% hitpoint bonus but it doesnÆt stack with the gang skill so it only ends up at 5% extra. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.03.29 06:17:00 - [93] I would be tempted to try a number of changeÆs. swap 1 invul field for a microwarp or AB. Swap all the SPRÆs for PDS. Either swap the 350mm turrets for 450mm or my preferred method is fit 4 or 5 cap Neats and 1 or 2 Nos. I killed many a ship with cap neats over Nos. This setup is also much cheaper then your SPR T2 setup but it has a weaker regen tank. The idea is you get in close fast drain there cap and rely on the high hitpoints. For PvP I would also be tempted to use extender rigs over purger but then again rigs cost a lot for Pvp. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.04.03 22:27:00 - [94] There is no best ship. Which is best all depends on the ship job and the pilots job. Personally I like the Eos and Domi as both are flexible with good DPS output and I have a soft spot for drones. Ignoring everything apart from tanking and its still not clear as ship A might tank EM best while ship B weakest resistance is a better tank then ship AÆs weakest resistance. For example ship A might tank say 500dps on EM but only 300 on Thermal. Ship B might be 400 on EM but also 400 on Thermal. Which is best? There are just too many factors to say 1 ship is the best and rules them all. You can start picking out the ship with the best HP regen, resistance, hitpoints or shield recharge but once you start factoring in gang mates, damage and none tanking modules everyone comes up with a different best ship. Kaylee Kaitlen thanks for the SPR T2 price update didnÆt realise they got that cheap. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.05.14 17:03:00 - [95] Well I had planed to get the rewrite of this guide done weeks ago. Looks like its going be weeks more at the earliest. I havenÆt given up yet and there will be an update this year. So keep posting suggestion and things you want to see. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.05.16 12:13:00 - [96] Edited by: Pottsey on 16/05/2007 12:12:18 Good point about Revelations 2.0. Will start writing/try and finish the guide but wont publish it till then after Rev 2 comes out. So I can write in any new info. Command ships are not being changed at this point. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=520425 Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.12.18 15:22:00 - [97] ôpottsey, has there been any changes to fitting since the trinity update? all in all is this topic up to date?ö Apart from overheating active hardeners and a few ship slot layout changeÆs I have not come across anything thatÆs changed. Up-to-date not really. My guide update is what a year late now? Only the most recent pages of worth reading in this thread. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2007.12.20 18:27:00 - [98] ôHello pottsey... i saw you mentioning your hyperion passive ship... whats the ship setup? and can it handle all lvl 4 missions?ö No idea if it can handle all missions never tried. These days I spend most of my mission time in a gang My friend warps in and gets main aggro, I warp in and kill with just enough tank to handle aggro from single groups and new waves that warp in and target me. I do have a solos setup but not done many missions with it. Highs 8, 425mm railguns faction ammo Mids, X1 Webber T2, X2 Large Extender T2 X1 Shield recharger T2 X1 Inful Field T2 Lows 3 damage mods, 3 PDS all T2 Rigs T1 Hybrid amin Hybrid Burst Metastasis I much prefer the above over my Navy Mega. As for solo replace the damage mods with SPRÆs at least one SPR has to be a beta SPR or you run out of CPU and the 3 rigs with purgers. Though I recommend a fake alt in your gang with mindlink. With a gang bonus thatÆs a 417 DPS tank against serps T1 purgers or 506 with T2 with a 21k buffer. 248HP/s regen. Damage wise it deals 424dps solo, 712DPS with the gang setup all without drones. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2008.01.10 21:39:00 - [99] Mail me in game please or post the info I need here and mail me if I dont replay within 3 days. I need a list of what you want out the ship. what weapons, what type of PvE or PvP as much info as you can. Any must have none tanking modules? EG some people say an AB is a must. Need the tank to be cap immune? Fleet or small gangs? e.c.t Its very hard to give the best (Insert ship name) setup without knowing more about what the ships main goals are. The tank I use in a Cosmos complex is very different from what I use in solo missions which again is different for what I use in group missions. Passive shield tanking guide click here Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation Posted - 2008.01.12 15:18:00 - [100] ôI'm very interested to see what you come up with the upgraded guide.ö Sort of burnt out with Eve lost all motivation to finish it. Its half done neatly and half done in note form. No idea when it will be ready. It would help if people would write a few sections or finish one of my unfinished sections. As for your question I think the setup I used before was 7 SPRÆs T2 2 Invul Fields T2 Heat Field T2 Photo ifield T2 Shield Recharger T2 Purgers T2 Not that I recommend that for most people. It works for PvE but cap takes too long to charge up so the jump drive is next to useless unless you have a friend with cap transfer or if you dock. For PvP I would replace the shield rechargers with large shield extenders. Replace the SPRÆs with PDS and purgers with extenders perhaps with a few damage mods and a DCU. Go for a massive hitpoint pool over HP regen. Might even swap the photon and heat for other things. Passive shield tanking guide click here

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