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The EVE Pyramid Scheme?

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Lady Alunae	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:10:00 - [1] As a new player some four months ago, I found EVE a fund game where the possibilities seemed endless. Lately, I've had come to the stark realization, however, that the basic nature of the game is very much like a pyramid scheme... and I, like any new or relatively new player, is on the bottom with no way out. The fact is, the game is rigged to favor certain activities such as suicide piracy in high sec. When you can make a profit of 150+mil in a single attack on a hulk and the maximum insurance only covers 20% or less of the hull price... it makes it abundantly clear that the designers of the game have not only a preference for the criminal element, but also make it much more lucrative for longer-term players to pick on newer players than to actually engage in the sort of low-sec, high action activity which this game advertises. That said... this game is a pyramid scheme, where new players are forced to act as entertainment for long-timers and who have no hope of getting the skill levels needed to retaliate on an even footing... unless you consider a few years of paid game time reasonable. So my question is, with no realistic way for new players to level the playing field, at least in PvP terms... what's the point of buying this game and paying just so I can provide a moving target for players who I can never even hope to match? And I make this question in all seriousness... I really don't see the logic and I think CCP should be much more truthful in their advertising.
Napro Caldari Buccaneers of New Eden death from above..	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:18:00 - [2] stuff
Musical Fist Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:19:00 - [3] Originally by: Napro stuff This is so not my main
Plocsk	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:21:00 - [4] Cue some responses with convincing arguments on why what you are saying is not really the case, and you should keep playing. BUT THEY JUST WANT YOU TO STAY TO BE GANKED BY THEM
Marquis Zenas I.X Research	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:21:00 - [5] Stealth suicide ganking whine detected - call the WHHHAAAAAABulance -------------------------- Sigless
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:22:00 - [6] you could legally buy skilled character? or join player corp for strength in numbers? or be smart and devious and learn how to dance solo around big nasty obstacles? or... oh, options, what are you going to do... ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:25:00 - [7] something must be done about pirates! x Have you voted Cat today? My Facebook!
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:25:00 - [8] Eve Online GAME OVER Your score: 0 Please insert Ç15 to try again
Brolly Caldari Gangrel Mining and Security	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:25:00 - [9] Ahhh, this oldy, surprised you hadn't seen this question yet. It all comes down to specialisation in specific areas, so that you may be as good as others. We all had to start somewhere, if anything, you new guys have it easy with your sped up training, extra implants and learning skills. Granted, you wont be able to get into a carrier in 4 months, but neither could us oldies. Hell, in our time all we had were indy's, frigs, cruisers and battleships. If you train up for a certain role and become skilled in it, you can be better than the vets. Anyone can fly a frig, but not everyone is proficient in doing so. Just because you get ganked in hi sec, doesn't make the game bad, maybe you need to change tactics, ships or layout.
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:25:00 - [10] play smart, if you see a bunch of combat ships warping into your area or mission and baiting you or look like they going to target you get out. many will try to lock you if you got drines out and if you got target back clicked on see if they can get your drones or you to accidently shoot them. move around, find less used systems, dont fly what you cant afford to loose, if anything looks too good to be true it probably is. using your brain will be the biggest help in not getting pwned. finding a good corp will also help you if they a good corp, eve university is a good place to start for new players will give you a ton of hints and introductions to various parts of eve including pvp. beyond that try to find a corp that is organized and helps each other and is not just out for themselves, try and find people you trust to watch your back, you can find them if you look hard enough. all that said nothing will be 100% effective if someone really wants you dead. but you can limit your vulnerability if you play things smart keep an eye on your overview and if something does not feel right get out.
Lady Alunae	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:26:00 - [11] I wouldn't have an issue if I had some reasonable way of exacting revenge for the loss of a ship, but the game is effectively rigged to prevent that from occurring, thus protecting the long time players from any loss at the expense of newer players who simply have to tolerate whatever happens to them... and pay rl cash for it to boot.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:29:00 - [12] Originally by: Lady Alunae So my question is, with no realistic way for new players to level the playing field, at least in PvP terms... (a) That's a false assumption. (b) You are seriously complaining that a Hulk, which is the "end-game" mining ship, doesn't hold it's own "in PvP terms"?!? (Of course you are not seriously complaining, you are trolling.) Originally by: Lady Alunae what's the point of buying this game and paying just so I can provide a moving target for players who I can never even hope to match? (c) If this game indeed suits people who gank newer players, the longer you stay the more newer players you can gank. Simple really. Originally by: Lady Alunae I think CCP should be much more truthful in their advertising. (d) "Truth in advertising"? When is the last time any advertisement was true? Are you really that gullible? (Or that bad a troll?) Free jumpclone service\|Now 1092 stations!
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:31:00 - [13] Originally by: Lady Alunae TL;DR - Newbies are cannon fodder, long time players benefit from it, and someone did something mean to me!! You say EVE has a Pyramid scheme. That would imply that there must be someone ultimate at the top of it all... Which - at least I think so - there isn't... Or I don't perceive it that way. ________________________ Apply \| Channel CBSN Lounge
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:32:00 - [14] revenge is getting some friends and killing them back. or simply denying them the kill in the first place. you can always get a corp gang and bait them out. revenge is a dish best served by cloaked ships. seriously tho ccp allows you to police yourself, learn how they work, kill rights, corp gangs, etc, and learn how to play with other people. thats the mmo part of eve.
Plocsk	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:33:00 - [15] Originally by: Lady Alunae I wouldn't have an issue if I had some reasonable way of exacting revenge for the loss of a ship, but the game is effectively rigged to prevent that from occurring, thus protecting the long time players from any loss at the expense of newer players who simply have to tolerate whatever happens to them... and pay rl cash for it to boot. Here's a hint: Don't try and go after players who are older than you, go pick on other noobs. It's like a food chain.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Lady Alunae The fact is, the game is rigged to favor certain activities such as suicide piracy in high sec. Since you're new, you must be completely unaware of the repeated changes that have made highsec suicide ganking increasingly difficult and/or costly. Heck, there was a time CONCORD didn't even exist. Then, CONCORD was actually tankable. After that, they kept buffing their damage, they kept buffing their response time, they kept adding new insta-neutralizing-of-ganker effects to their arsenal, and so on. Quote: When you can make a profit of 150+mil in a single attack on a hulk If you can make that profit, the Hulk pilot was an IDIOT. Let me repeat that : if you have enough expensive gear on your highsec Hulk so that suicide-gankers can make 150+ mil profit, YOU DESERVE TO GET SUICIDE-GANKED. Quote: and the maximum insurance only covers 20% or less of the hull price Wait 12 more days, this is changing. Quote: it makes it abundantly clear ...that you don;t know much about the game yet ? Yup. Quote: that the designers of the game have not only a preference for the criminal element, but also make it much more lucrative for longer-term players to pick on newer players than to actually engage in the sort of low-sec, high action activity which this game advertises Hey, if newer players wouldn't be such careless morons as to be voluntary loot pinatas, almost nobody would bother to hunt them down. There are far more efficient ways to make money other than suicide-ganking, but the victims make it so easy and attractive that... well... yes, they were asking for it, and whoever ganked them was doing the general population a service... they were also doing the gankee a service, by teaching him a valuable lesson : NEVER fly in or with something you can not stand the thought of losing. Quote: That said... this game is a pyramid scheme, where new players are forced to act as entertainment for long-timers and who have no hope of getting the skill levels needed to retaliate on an even footing ... unless you consider a few years of paid game time reasonable. Right, because suicide-gankers are year-old players ? LOL. Try to look closer to the typical suicide-ganker. Most of them are barely a couple of months old. Quote: So my question is, with no realistic way for new players to level the playing field, at least in PvP terms Skills stop training at L5. There's a limited amount of skills that are useful in PvP for any specific ship. YOU CAN AND WILL catch up with "vets". In fact, it's usually easy to surpass most vets in a reasonable timeframe if you specialize heavily, as most genuine vets tend to be "jack of all trades". They do have newer, specialized alts too, and such accounts could be younger than yours but still kick your ass. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Lady Alunae	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:36:00 - [17] I think I'm getting the message here... that the game probably isn't worth my time or money. Thanks for the advice all... sub canceled. And no, you can't have my leftover ISK.
Nito Musashi	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:38:00 - [18] have fun in wow. :P ask for your stuff but meh you probably dont have any stuff worth having anyway.
Plocsk	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:39:00 - [19] Edited by: Plocsk on 06/05/2010 15:39:04 You need a certain temperament to enjoy this game - and the OP didn't have it. Also I think the OP is a trolling alt tbh.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Lady Alunae I think I'm getting the message here... that the game probably isn't worth my time or money. Thanks for the advice all... sub canceled. And no, you can't have my leftover ISK. But your stuff? I need it. ________________________ Apply \| Channel CBSN Lounge
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:39:00 - [21] New players can suicide gank too, you know. Just saying.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:41:00 - [22] Edited by: Estel Arador on 06/05/2010 15:41:18 Originally by: Lady Alunae I think I'm getting the message here... that the game probably isn't worth my time or money. Thanks for the advice all... sub canceled. And no, you can't have my leftover ISK. Guess which one you are. Learning Curve Free jumpclone service\|Now 1092 stations!
Jill Xelitras Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Lady Alunae I wouldn't have an issue if I had some reasonable way of exacting revenge for the loss of a ship, but the game is effectively rigged to prevent that from occurring... The problem is: YOU want to exact revenge when you shouldn't. It's an attitude problem that exists in RL. Kid gets the feeling that life is unfair, kid gets daddy's gun, kid murders his class mates. Revenge is a dish best served cold. That's the very first thing you read upon watching the movie "Kill Bill". It means that you need to check what means you have at your disposal to make your revenge effectively work. EVE is full of stories of people who took weeks of careful planning to achieve their goals. If you don't have that patience then avoid getting in situations where you might get angry at some person. In your case it would probably mean to stop mining in very expensive ships without a significant tank or being aligned to warp out at all time. The good news is that from May 18th on insurance will not cover more then 100% of the building cost of ships anymore. This makes ganking a little less profitable. J.
Bucky O'Hair Minmatar Valklear Guard	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:48:00 - [24] Originally by: Zaqar Eve Online GAME OVER Your score: 0 Please insert Ç15 to try again Dude that rocks! Can I use it for my signature? Bucky O'Hair "If it flys it dies!"
Psychotic Maniac Caldari Head Shrinkers	Posted - 2010.05.06 15:49:00 - [25] Edited by: Psychotic Maniac on 06/05/2010 15:49:42 Consider yourself the one getting tossed around. How to play with a noob _____________________________________________________ "One death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic."
Dagny Bronstein	Posted - 2010.05.06 16:04:00 - [26] Edited by: Dagny Bronstein on 06/05/2010 16:05:01 Originally by: Lady Alunae When you can make a profit of 150+mil in a single attack on a hulk and the maximum insurance only covers 20% or less of the hull price... it makes it abundantly clear that the designers of the game have not only a preference for the criminal element, but also make it much more lucrative for longer-term players to pick on newer players than to actually engage in the sort of low-sec, high action activity which this game advertises. Last time I checked it took several months to train for a Hulk... New players generally tend to fly fully insurable T1 stuff. Getting suicide-ganked is no matter of in-game skills or character age but one of knowing the relevant game mechanics - a new player who has read the forums for a few days should know how to detect warning signs and how to avoid getting ganked; a new player who cannot be bothered to read up on game mechanics does so at his own peril.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.05.06 16:05:00 - [27] Getting suicided gives you kill rights, go get'em tiger. Earning 150M ISK is dirt easy even for low-SP players if you do it right. And finally you are a whiny loser who probably will quit the harsh world of EVE pretty soon anyway. No big loss.
Jack bubu Lyonesse. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.06 16:09:00 - [28] You should go and vote ankhasemptaasodj she should be an expert with pyramids having that egypt name and all.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.05.06 16:32:00 - [29] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 06/05/2010 16:33:44 Originally by: Lady Alunae As a new player some four months ago, I found EVE a fund game where the possibilities seemed endless. Lately, I've had come to the stark realization, however, that the basic nature of the game is very much like a pyramid scheme... and I, like any new or relatively new player, is on the bottom with no way out. The fact is, the game is rigged to favor certain activities such as suicide piracy in high sec. When you can make a profit of 150+mil in a single attack on a hulk and the maximum insurance only covers 20% or less of the hull price... it makes it abundantly clear that the designers of the game have not only a preference for the criminal element, but also make it much more lucrative for longer-term players to pick on newer players than to actually engage in the sort of low-sec, high action activity which this game advertises. That said... this game is a pyramid scheme, where new players are forced to act as entertainment for long-timers and who have no hope of getting the skill levels needed to retaliate on an even footing... unless you consider a few years of paid game time reasonable. So my question is, with no realistic way for new players to level the playing field, at least in PvP terms... what's the point of buying this game and paying just so I can provide a moving target for players who I can never even hope to match? And I make this question in all seriousness... I really don't see the logic and I think CCP should be much more truthful in their advertising. The point in paying for this game is obviously to fund CCP so they can build completely different games. Unfortunately, leveling the playing field would make pointless the long......long and drawn out process of skill training that older players have invested years in doing. You're not going to find much sympathy. As you've seen, so far the responses are mostly negative. However, I do understand where you're coming from. The new player can choose one of several routes: missioning, mining, pvp, right from the start. Lets face it, missioning is devoid of anything pleasurable. It's the same old missions over and over again. Mining, probably the least profitable means of making isk though it can be fun, for a while, with a group. PVP, the new player is nothing more than cannon fodder. Be it on his own or in a corp, death is imminent. Even in a blob, with limited skills, the new player is tasked as a tackler, the guy who is first to engage a target. Death is a certainty unless the blob acts quickly. However, within a couple of months the new player can branch out a little into sub professions such as ninjaing and exploration (wh's). Ninjaing, imo, if the most interesting profession of them all. You have quite a bit of player interaction. And tears from players you steal from are priceless. Exploration, is boring but, it's something else to do. Oh, and now there is planetary interaction. Think of Sim City without anything fun.
Olleybear I R' Carebear	Posted - 2010.05.07 00:01:00 - [30] Originally by: Lady Alunae I think I'm getting the message here... that the game probably isn't worth my time or money. The forums are full of trolls who like to get reactions out of people. They got one out of you. As to your first post, it sounds like you lost something you worked hard for and someone took it from you in hi-sec. Thats a hard punch to take on the chin. It also sounds like you dont think you have a chance of getting even. Eve is the wonderfull place it is because you do have that chance. As other people have pointed out, you have to use your brain in this game. Heres an idea, laugh about the loss with the ganker. Get in good and tight with him, maybe get him to invite you to his corp, fly with him, then one day when he is flying a hauler full of goodies... pop him. No matter how old he is, a simpe cruiser can kill a hauler easy. There are plenty of other things you can come up with if you use your brain. Eve isn't WoW. Eve isn't a 'twitch-headshot twitch-headshot' game. Eve is a thinking game. <<< Just because your pet likes you, that does not mean you are a good person. >>>

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