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@Minmatar pilots: what's yer default ammo?

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Denuo Secus	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:22:00 - [1] ...if there is something like that. To make my question more clear. Once I flew Amarr, I always had Scorch loaded and switched to MF if needed. Minmatar is completely different here ofc. But what do you have loaded if you undock and/or if you don't know your target (yet)? Faction EMP? Barrage? Hail? I chose Barrage but I'm not sure. I just liked the flexibility because of it's range and it's good damage. Lastly my target was kinetic weak and I didn't switch away from Barrage to Titanium Sabot just because of the reload time. Any advices? Thanks! - Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:30:00 - [2] RF EMP M -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Armen Vorga	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:33:00 - [3] Pasting from my notes for a similar thread that was posted earlier: EMP v. T1 shield and T2 Caldari and Gallente Fusion v. T1 Armor and T2 Caldari and Gallente (as both have both EM and explo holes) Phased Plasma as a general ammo (thermal is a good damage type against T1 most things) and against Amarr T2, but really bad against the other 3 T2 races of ships. Anyways EMP does half damage on shields, and half on armor. However, when you are down to armor, you are better off switching to Fusion which is mostly explosive. Phased Plasma (thermal) is in the middle of the two. What will really dictate which one you use will be the resists of the target.
Deva Blackfire Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:49:00 - [4] Originally by: Armen Vorga Anyways EMP does half damage on shields, and half on armor. Thats from some old post? As EMP does mostly EM damage nowadays (funnily enough it does more EM damage than any amarr ammo). When i fly matari boats i just juggle ammo. Usually have fusion loaded (think best ammo to knock down other matari shieldtanks).
steave435 Caldari Final Agony B A N E	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:50:00 - [5] Edited by: steave435 on 06/05/2010 22:53:04 Originally by: Armen Vorga Pasting from my notes for a similar thread that was posted earlier: EMP v. T1 shield and T2 Caldari and Gallente Fusion v. T1 Armor and T2 Caldari and Gallente (as both have both EM and explo holes) Phased Plasma as a general ammo (thermal is a good damage type against T1 most things) and against Amarr T2, but really bad against the other 3 T2 races of ships. Anyways EMP does half damage on shields, and half on armor. However, when you are down to armor, you are better off switching to Fusion which is mostly explosive. Phased Plasma (thermal) is in the middle of the two. What will really dictate which one you use will be the resists of the target. That's outdated. EMP now does 75% em, 8.3% kin and 16.7% explosive, making it perfect for caldari and gallente T2 shield ships, since the EM hole is usually too large to cover. It works well against T1 shield aswell, but only if the ship in question does not have enough mids to add specific hardeners. Phased plasma is perfect for amarr T2 with 83.3% thermal and 16.7% kin Fusion is perfect for T2 caldari and gallente armor tanks that do not have enough lows to add a specific explosive hardener. Same goes for T1 armor ships. It does 83.3% explosive and 16.7% kinetic. Keep in mind that while many will say they have EMP loaded as standard, that's a relic from the time before the projectile boost. Before that, EMP did more damage then the others, but now the above 3 all do the same amount, it's just doing different types of damage. My favorite that I load as standard is still barrage though. You loose 8.3% of the max theoretical dps, and you loose a little bit of tracking, but you don't get a optimal penalty (which means your hit quality doesn't start to decrease for an another few km) and a huge falloff bonus so that, again, your hit quality decrease at any specific range is almost always so much lower then it is with EMP/Fusion/Plasma that it does more damage then any of those anyway, unless the target has very high kinetic and explosive resistance (barrage does 55% explosive and 45% kinetic). EDIT: Quote: When i fly matari boats i just juggle ammo. Usually have fusion loaded (think best ammo to knock down other matari shieldtanks). I guess you mean other minnie T2 shield ships right? Otherwise, fusion (explosive) suck for taking down shield tanks. Even at point blank range, barrage would be better though since it does kinetic, which minnie T2 shield is even weaker against.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.06 22:57:00 - [6] Originally by: steave435 Keep in mind that while many will say they have EMP loaded as standard, that's a relic from the time before the projectile boost. Before that, EMP did more damage then the others, but now the above 3 all do the same amount, it's just doing different types of damage. I assure you that there's more thought into it than the relic of the past. I think it depends on what and how you expect to fight. It's awfully hard to load Barrage into my artillery. :( -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Lego Maniac Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.05.06 23:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Liang Nuren It's awfully hard to load Barrage into my artillery. :( -Liang won't RF proton/deplete uranium/titanium sabot be more effective in artillery with the 20% tracking boost? __________________________________________________________ ˄ ____________ ˄
Deva Blackfire Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON	Posted - 2010.05.06 23:29:00 - [8] Originally by: steave435 Quote: When i fly matari boats i just juggle ammo. Usually have fusion loaded (think best ammo to knock down other matari shieldtanks). I guess you mean other minnie T2 shield ships right? Otherwise, fusion (explosive) suck for taking down shield tanks. Even at point blank range, barrage would be better though since it does kinetic, which minnie T2 shield is even weaker against. Yeh i meant t2. barage better than fusion against say vaga? Didnt run numbers, maybe you did?
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.06 23:29:00 - [9] I default to Phased Plasma usually. It's better than EMP on most common T1 shield buffer fits, excepting the Drake. (The cheap anti-EM rig is a very common hole plug on setups.) And even if they haven't plugged the EM hole, Phased Plasma is effective within a few percentage points of EHP compared to EMP on most anything but a Drake. It also isn't bad against armor (though obviously it isn't fusion) if you're already in an engagement. That's assuming most of your targets are T1, faction, or pirate however. PP looks like crap against anything but Amarr T2.
Proxyyyy Caldari The Tuskers The Tusker Bastards	Posted - 2010.05.06 23:34:00 - [10] Before the changes and after the cahnges it has always been (barrage)!!!
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.07 00:02:00 - [11] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 07/05/2010 00:03:26 Originally by: Lego Maniac Originally by: Liang Nuren It's awfully hard to load Barrage into my artillery. :( -Liang won't RF proton/deplete uranium/titanium sabot be more effective in artillery with the 20% tracking boost? Not for most uses, no, you want the max DPS. Although my arties typically have RF PP M loaded, but I reload based on what's around of course. I think I use up RF EMP / RF PP / RF Fusion preety much equally. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Vladimir Norkoff Income Redistribution Service	Posted - 2010.05.07 00:29:00 - [12] EMP of one sort or another. Normally I am pewpewing Caldari ships. And tbh many armor ships have an EM hole when they use DCU and triple hardeners. So it's a fairly decent all around ammo. Taxman IX: Risky Venture
Augin Soric Minmatar Killed In Action	Posted - 2010.05.07 00:50:00 - [13] I carry RF Depleted Uranium for general combat - not as much 'on paper' damage as the common EMP is but it gives you versatility and a nifty tracking bonus; However I always have Barrage and RF EMP in the hold for more precise applications.
Ugly Eric	Posted - 2010.05.07 04:35:00 - [14] I default to RF EMP due to our arch enemy flying mostly drakes. Barrage is the choice if I hop in my cynabal or vaga just to get the range there. If I encounter something other than the drake, I'll newer able to remember the weak spots of resists and the ammotypes, so i just check the infos as I go :D
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.05.07 04:45:00 - [15] Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 07/05/2010 04:45:38 Fusion for the most part, but then I mostly fly and shoot at frigates, the majority of which are armor tanked or have an explosive hole in their T2 resists. That said, there's normally plenty of time to reload between initiating warp to your target and dropping out on top of him, so I try to have the appropriate ammo loaded for any given fight.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.07 05:50:00 - [16] So that's three for EMP, two for Barrage, two for Phased Plasma, two for Fusion, and one for each of mid range ammunitions so far. I guess the safest answer is: there is no default. Figure out what situation you're getting into, and go from there.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2010.05.07 06:06:00 - [17] Barrage unless you're absolutely sure you need different ammo. Minmatar rely on speed, and that means you need the extra range of barrage to stay out of web range. Until you know otherwise (ex: warping in on a mission Drake) you go with the default plan, and barrage stays in the guns. However, you always carry RF EMP/fusion/PP in cargo since there are situations when you'll want to get the increase in damage and/or tracking. -----------
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.05.07 06:31:00 - [18] Keep RF EMP loaded, Keep RF Fusion on hand. If I see a ship that traditionally armor tanks, then I load the RF Fusion. If I see a ship that traditionally shield tanks, then I load the RF EMP.
Cyan Cure	Posted - 2010.05.07 06:44:00 - [19] Under your conditions my default ammunition is always EMP. Shields come off first and that's what EMP's often times good for. After you know your target's ship and the type of tank, you switch accordingly.
Typhado3 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.07 07:25:00 - [20] depleted uranium is a good starter imo for arty. you can open up with it at almost any target and do ok dps. Of course if you jump into a blob of drakes switch to emp before you do anything. ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker
Alsyth Night Warder	Posted - 2010.05.07 07:43:00 - [21] Edited by: Alsyth on 07/05/2010 07:43:39 Have the 3 high dps RF ammo (EMP/PP/F) and at least one med range (tracking boost) RF ammo, and barrage, in your autocannons. Ratio depend on your ship (kite ? -> more barrage. Close ? -> more EMP/PP/F. Med guns wanting to take out frigs ? -> Tracking) Which one you load depends on your opponent, I think I'd keep barrage for kiting ships (Vaga, Cyna, NanoCane...) and PP is close range (if you face a mixed armor/shield fleet with no T2 Gallente/Caldari, it won't face very high resistances) Arties, I don't know. Large AC I'd keep the same as med AC.
fivetide humidyear Gallente Fool Mental Junket	Posted - 2010.05.07 08:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Barrage unless you're absolutely sure you need different ammo. Minmatar rely on speed, and that means you need the extra range of barrage to stay out of web range. Until you know otherwise (ex: warping in on a mission Drake) you go with the default plan, and barrage stays in the guns. However, you always carry RF EMP/fusion/PP in cargo since there are situations when you'll want to get the increase in damage and/or tracking. for autocannons very much this, maybe switching to RF EMP for shield tanks or RF fusion for armour if you want to go in close. for arty then whichever of RF EMP / PP / fusion is best, usually RF EMP as default. with a reload of tremor for ranged stuff.
Tozmeister Digital Fury Corporation Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.07 08:21:00 - [23] Don't forget the RF DU or TS. Even in AC boats this gives you much better chance of hitting any tackle frigs on you and getting out should the need arise. +++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++
Concubinia Scarlett	Posted - 2010.05.07 08:44:00 - [24] Completely situational and depends on ship / targets, e.g. If I'm POS killing in an arty BS then T1 EMP / Fusion with tremor in hold, gate camping in a 'cane then barrage loaded, PP, EMP and Fusion in hold, etc etc.. BUT I ALWAYS keep RF depleted uranium loaded if I am flying a frig hull with no tracking bonus, or RF fusion if it has a tracking bonus. Reason: Kills Warrior IIs the fastest, nuff said.
Nomen Luni	Posted - 2010.05.07 09:01:00 - [25] Edited by: Nomen Luni on 07/05/2010 09:02:01 carbonized lead or nuclear currently for max range in my arty hurricane (cant afford tech 2 guns all round yet).
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2010.05.07 09:20:00 - [26] Wow, thanks a lot for that much response. This will help for sure Three additional questions regarding general ammo usage: I learned the 3 short range ammo types (EMP, PP and Fusion) and a must have for covering all resistance layouts with high damage. The two med range types (Depleted Uranium and Titanium Sabot) are in my cargo when tracking is needed. But the three long range types are more or less obsolete because of Barrage/Tremor? I guess there are some rare niche uses for maybe Proton because of it's EM type. Question 1) I'm not sure with Titanium Sabot. Depleted Uranium has a better damage type dispersion and should work better in most cases? Question 2) Am I wrong with my assumption that the 3 long range types are obsolete due to T2 long range? The fallof of all t1 types is equal. Optimal is small. I case I need EM I could load EMP and try to get a bit in more range instead? Question 3) Is Hail/Tremor useful (in contrast to the other races short range t2 ammos)? I could imagine a use against bigger targets with armor tank... Reason for asking: I just don't want to carry 9-10 types of ammo. I want to focus a bit. So 3x short + 1x med + 1x t2 long range would make sense to me. Thanks again - Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
Pistrik Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.05.07 09:40:00 - [27] Edited by: Pistrik on 07/05/2010 09:40:28 Two of my most flown ships use artillery (Rapier/Muninn), so it's usually Tremor for me... with some Domination lead if I need the tracking to get the kill on that fast frigate. Use barrage and EMP in my smaller ships like the Sabre etc.
Captain Nares O3 Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.07 10:01:00 - [28] Edited by: Captain Nares on 07/05/2010 10:03:00 Originally by: Denuo Secus In order not to fly with empty guns, I load them with RF Phased Plasma. But generally after projectile weapons boost there is NO default ammo. I fly Dramiel and have RF EMP, RF PP, RF Fusion, Barrage in my cargo. 4 types. Bigger ships: + midrange ammo with tracking bonus, Hail, and Tremor for arty.
Concubinia Scarlett	Posted - 2010.05.07 10:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Denuo Secus Is Hail/Tremor useful (in contrast to the other races short range t2 ammos)? I could imagine a use against bigger targets with armor tank... I think you mean Hail / Quake, and to be honest its not worth bothering with. Only situation I have ever found either useful is POS/POS module bashing or shooting stationary cap ships, and faction ammo now generaly performs better for this with none of the T2 drawbacks anyway.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.05.07 11:06:00 - [30] RF EMP and Fusion L with my Pest. I keep a bit of Barrage in the cargo but I barely use it, except for shooting BBs and Falcons. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.

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