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Supremacy, Xetic and Fountain.

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Jazz Bo	Posted - 2004.12.05 18:43:00 - [61] Originally by: Mastiphal Nosferatu OC merged with Zoners (I think), and as they formed a new corp, they decided to not join CA officially like their 2 parent corporations did. So now they don't have to pay millions or probably billions to wage war on FA and Xetic. IMO was a good move of Supremacy. No. First they joined the CA officially, then they left it to declare war on Xetic. Btw, will Supremacy now be rejoining the Curse Alliance officially? Originally by: DB Preacher Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
Jazz Bo	Posted - 2004.12.05 18:43:00 - [62] Originally by: Mastiphal Nosferatu OC merged with Zoners (I think), and as they formed a new corp, they decided to not join CA officially like their 2 parent corporations did. So now they don't have to pay millions or probably billions to wage war on FA and Xetic. IMO was a good move of Supremacy. No. First they joined the CA officially, then they left it to declare war on Xetic. Btw, will Supremacy now be rejoining the Curse Alliance officially? Originally by: DB Preacher Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
AvanCade	Posted - 2004.12.05 18:50:00 - [63] Originally by: Focht Originally by: AvanCade Ok, to the people who comparison loggin off and leaving alliances because of war costs; logging off is a out-game-thing. leaving alliance because of the cost is a ingame thing. Can happen in real life as well. Logging off can't. Next i think it worked though. Now whole CA can fight Xetic and yet they are paying for it Your fighters leaving the alliance (leaving on paper as they are still your buddies, allowed in your space and flying in mixed out-of-empire gangs) to lower the costs of the war declaration is nothing less or more then using or exploiting the original rules ccp setted up for alliance warfare. Their system allowed "alliances" to claim space while you simply bypass this system to get an advantage, while in terms of gameplay supremacy are still full members of the alliance CA and just surfing currently on the advantages of the ill thought through system. Once this system is adjusted im confident we will see supremacy back in the ca alliance ingame entity. Furthermore im sure they didnt lose any council seats in the current ca ruling government or the war council.... Leaving the alliance is valid period. For whatever reason. And what we do with 'our' space is our own. We decide who we tolerate and who we don't.
AvanCade	Posted - 2004.12.05 18:50:00 - [64] Originally by: Focht Originally by: AvanCade Ok, to the people who comparison loggin off and leaving alliances because of war costs; logging off is a out-game-thing. leaving alliance because of the cost is a ingame thing. Can happen in real life as well. Logging off can't. Next i think it worked though. Now whole CA can fight Xetic and yet they are paying for it Your fighters leaving the alliance (leaving on paper as they are still your buddies, allowed in your space and flying in mixed out-of-empire gangs) to lower the costs of the war declaration is nothing less or more then using or exploiting the original rules ccp setted up for alliance warfare. Their system allowed "alliances" to claim space while you simply bypass this system to get an advantage, while in terms of gameplay supremacy are still full members of the alliance CA and just surfing currently on the advantages of the ill thought through system. Once this system is adjusted im confident we will see supremacy back in the ca alliance ingame entity. Furthermore im sure they didnt lose any council seats in the current ca ruling government or the war council.... Leaving the alliance is valid period. For whatever reason. And what we do with 'our' space is our own. We decide who we tolerate and who we don't.
Focht	Posted - 2004.12.05 18:57:00 - [65] Originally by: AvanCade Leaving the alliance is valid period. For whatever reason. And what we do with 'our' space is our own. We decide who we tolerate and who we don't. Leaving the alliance would be "valid" if they actually leave and not just remove the ingame tag for the time it gives them an advantage while still beeing in that entity and only exploiting the game mechanics (if ure part of an alliance you pay the alliance money, if ure not part of the alliance you shouldnt be in it out-of-game) A concept not that hard to grasp or ? Thats like getting one of your clanm8s in broodwar playing over and over against you to provide cheap wins, nothing else. Supremacy is happy in CA, is part of the CA government and the ca-community while bending the alliancewarfare rules to get an advantage. As said before if this advantage is removed im sure we will see Supremacy back in the saddle again, which is lame.
Focht	Posted - 2004.12.05 18:57:00 - [66] Originally by: AvanCade Leaving the alliance is valid period. For whatever reason. And what we do with 'our' space is our own. We decide who we tolerate and who we don't. Leaving the alliance would be "valid" if they actually leave and not just remove the ingame tag for the time it gives them an advantage while still beeing in that entity and only exploiting the game mechanics (if ure part of an alliance you pay the alliance money, if ure not part of the alliance you shouldnt be in it out-of-game) A concept not that hard to grasp or ? Thats like getting one of your clanm8s in broodwar playing over and over against you to provide cheap wins, nothing else. Supremacy is happy in CA, is part of the CA government and the ca-community while bending the alliancewarfare rules to get an advantage. As said before if this advantage is removed im sure we will see Supremacy back in the saddle again, which is lame.
Amthrianius	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:18:00 - [67] Originally by: Reverend Necrona Originally by: Amthrianius Necro What happened to Pride and Honour? Dread! Taken from ATUK Corp Description Quote: Invitation or recommendation onlyØ ATUK:- "We have NO Honor" \o/ Who said we did? I was not in anyway referring to ATUK last time i checked supremacy boasted being honourable and have pride being in CA This is not a discussion about ATUK this is about you having no pride by leaving in game CA alliance and no honour to fight the people who declared war on CA. Which for some reason that spaz Foyle has said the short form is "CURSE" when its "CA" ---------------
Amthrianius	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:18:00 - [68] Originally by: Reverend Necrona Originally by: Amthrianius Necro What happened to Pride and Honour? Dread! Taken from ATUK Corp Description Quote: Invitation or recommendation onlyØ ATUK:- "We have NO Honor" \o/ Who said we did? I was not in anyway referring to ATUK last time i checked supremacy boasted being honourable and have pride being in CA This is not a discussion about ATUK this is about you having no pride by leaving in game CA alliance and no honour to fight the people who declared war on CA. Which for some reason that spaz Foyle has said the short form is "CURSE" when its "CA" ---------------
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:18:00 - [69] What we are doing, at the end of the day, is showing CCP how retenative their alliance system is. However saying were "lame", "exploiters" and "bending the rules" is obsurd and claims that you are not able to back up and more to the point know yourselves are out of order. How about REDBULL BATTLE GROUP declaring war on OC. A Xanadu alt corp attacking OC without endagering the main Xanadu empire operations, ring a bell Focht? We didn't complain, it's part of the game, ccp developed these alliance systems to negagate that. Their solution is imperfect i agree but it makes us no less cheaters than those making alt corps to attack oc. Reverend Necrona
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:18:00 - [70] What we are doing, at the end of the day, is showing CCP how retenative their alliance system is. However saying were "lame", "exploiters" and "bending the rules" is obsurd and claims that you are not able to back up and more to the point know yourselves are out of order. How about REDBULL BATTLE GROUP declaring war on OC. A Xanadu alt corp attacking OC without endagering the main Xanadu empire operations, ring a bell Focht? We didn't complain, it's part of the game, ccp developed these alliance systems to negagate that. Their solution is imperfect i agree but it makes us no less cheaters than those making alt corps to attack oc. Reverend Necrona
Mastiphal Nosferatu	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:21:00 - [71] Originally by: Jazz Bo No. First they joined the CA officially, then they left it to declare war on Xetic. Well, thought it would be something like that. Thx anyways for the info.
Mastiphal Nosferatu	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:21:00 - [72] Originally by: Jazz Bo No. First they joined the CA officially, then they left it to declare war on Xetic. Well, thought it would be something like that. Thx anyways for the info.
Darkrydar	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:31:00 - [73]
Darkrydar	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:31:00 - [74]
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:33:00 - [75] Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 05/12/2004 19:36:15 At the end of the day, were having a lot of fun, know were honourable players/corp as i wouldn't be here otherwise and more to the point are playing perfectly legally ;) It's just funny to watch what you lot come up with on the forums :D Reverend Necrona
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:33:00 - [76] Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 05/12/2004 19:36:15 At the end of the day, were having a lot of fun, know were honourable players/corp as i wouldn't be here otherwise and more to the point are playing perfectly legally ;) It's just funny to watch what you lot come up with on the forums :D Reverend Necrona
Amthrianius	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:38:00 - [77] Originally by: Reverend Necrona Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 05/12/2004 19:36:15 At the end of the day, were having a lot of fun, know were honourable players/corp as i wouldn't be here otherwise and more to the point are playing perfectly legally ;) It's just funny to watch what you lot come up with on the forums :D Would be a fun an empire war with Supremacy, hint hint ---------------
Amthrianius	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:38:00 - [78] Originally by: Reverend Necrona Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 05/12/2004 19:36:15 At the end of the day, were having a lot of fun, know were honourable players/corp as i wouldn't be here otherwise and more to the point are playing perfectly legally ;) It's just funny to watch what you lot come up with on the forums :D Would be a fun an empire war with Supremacy, hint hint ---------------
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:40:00 - [79] Originally by: Amthrianius Originally by: Reverend Necrona Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 05/12/2004 19:36:15 At the end of the day, were having a lot of fun, know were honourable players/corp as i wouldn't be here otherwise and more to the point are playing perfectly legally ;) It's just funny to watch what you lot come up with on the forums :D Would be a fun an empire war with Supremacy, hint hint Mebbe thol and n00bious can sort something out :S Reverend Necrona
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:40:00 - [80] Originally by: Amthrianius Originally by: Reverend Necrona Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 05/12/2004 19:36:15 At the end of the day, were having a lot of fun, know were honourable players/corp as i wouldn't be here otherwise and more to the point are playing perfectly legally ;) It's just funny to watch what you lot come up with on the forums :D Would be a fun an empire war with Supremacy, hint hint Mebbe thol and n00bious can sort something out :S Reverend Necrona
Focht	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:54:00 - [81] Originally by: Reverend Necrona How about REDBULL BATTLE GROUP declaring war on OC. A Xanadu alt corp attacking OC without endagering the main Xanadu empire operations, ring a bell Focht? We didn't complain, it's part of the game, ccp developed these alliance systems to negagate that. Their solution is imperfect i agree but it makes us no less cheaters than those making alt corps to attack oc. It would be ironic to name now enslavers altcorp here declaring war on Xanadu, wouldnt it ? The point however is that altcorps did not bend the rules in any way or form, if OC had such a huge problem with 1 of them they could have declared war on the mother corp in return (for free as in those times the only limitation was the warslots). You never did, so im confident it wasnt a problem. On the otherhand, finding a weak spot in the game mechanics and using it to your ingame advantage with the sole purpose to save money and to get an ingame advantage falls under ccps rules of exploiting in my personal view.
Focht	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:54:00 - [82] Originally by: Reverend Necrona How about REDBULL BATTLE GROUP declaring war on OC. A Xanadu alt corp attacking OC without endagering the main Xanadu empire operations, ring a bell Focht? We didn't complain, it's part of the game, ccp developed these alliance systems to negagate that. Their solution is imperfect i agree but it makes us no less cheaters than those making alt corps to attack oc. It would be ironic to name now enslavers altcorp here declaring war on Xanadu, wouldnt it ? The point however is that altcorps did not bend the rules in any way or form, if OC had such a huge problem with 1 of them they could have declared war on the mother corp in return (for free as in those times the only limitation was the warslots). You never did, so im confident it wasnt a problem. On the otherhand, finding a weak spot in the game mechanics and using it to your ingame advantage with the sole purpose to save money and to get an ingame advantage falls under ccps rules of exploiting in my personal view.
Malken	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:56:00 - [83] Originally by: Amthrianius Originally by: Reverend Necrona Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 05/12/2004 19:36:15 At the end of the day, were having a lot of fun, know were honourable players/corp as i wouldn't be here otherwise and more to the point are playing perfectly legally ;) It's just funny to watch what you lot come up with on the forums :D Would be a fun an empire war with Supremacy, hint hint i doubt it would happen tbh, unless ATUK payed for it Originally by: Graelyn "We're at war with you, and you FIRED on us! I am so telling CONCORD!" Quote: [18:46:36] Weebear > WTS Electric Golf Cart, 1 careful owner. Phone Rome 555 6567
Malken	Posted - 2004.12.05 19:56:00 - [84] Originally by: Amthrianius Originally by: Reverend Necrona Edited by: Reverend Necrona on 05/12/2004 19:36:15 At the end of the day, were having a lot of fun, know were honourable players/corp as i wouldn't be here otherwise and more to the point are playing perfectly legally ;) It's just funny to watch what you lot come up with on the forums :D Would be a fun an empire war with Supremacy, hint hint i doubt it would happen tbh, unless ATUK payed for it Originally by: Graelyn "We're at war with you, and you FIRED on us! I am so telling CONCORD!" Quote: [18:46:36] Weebear > WTS Electric Golf Cart, 1 careful owner. Phone Rome 555 6567
Vlandarr	Posted - 2004.12.05 20:02:00 - [85] Originally by: Reverend Necrona Just my own opinions and what not, i am a member of supremacy but do note that i've as of yet been to lazy to get this character in the corp \o/. our not the only nub still in OC CK
Vlandarr	Posted - 2004.12.05 20:02:00 - [86] Originally by: Reverend Necrona Just my own opinions and what not, i am a member of supremacy but do note that i've as of yet been to lazy to get this character in the corp \o/. our not the only nub still in OC CK
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2004.12.05 20:07:00 - [87] Originally by: Focht Originally by: Reverend Necrona How about REDBULL BATTLE GROUP declaring war on OC. A Xanadu alt corp attacking OC without endagering the main Xanadu empire operations, ring a bell Focht? We didn't complain, it's part of the game, ccp developed these alliance systems to negagate that. Their solution is imperfect i agree but it makes us no less cheaters than those making alt corps to attack oc. It would be ironic to name now enslavers altcorp here declaring war on Xanadu, wouldnt it ? The point however is that altcorps did not bend the rules in any way or form, if OC had such a huge problem with 1 of them they could have declared war on the mother corp in return (for free as in those times the only limitation was the warslots). You never did, so im confident it wasnt a problem. On the otherhand, finding a weak spot in the game mechanics and using it to your ingame advantage with the sole purpose to save money and to get an ingame advantage falls under ccps rules of exploiting in my personal view. You'd have a point there Focht... had we complained in anyway that alt wars were illegal or something, but no unfortunatley, were not whining *****es. It's by no means exploting, sure it's showing that ccp has made a mistake with their system, we admit this, we admitted this before we did this. However at no point did CCP go "leaving your alliance and declaring war on another is illegal" - hell they even _BALANCED_ it by making it cost more for 1 corp to declare war on an alliance. So it would seem your personal opinion thankfully isn't coherent with ccp's. :-) Reverend Necrona
Reverend Necrona	Posted - 2004.12.05 20:07:00 - [88] Originally by: Focht Originally by: Reverend Necrona How about REDBULL BATTLE GROUP declaring war on OC. A Xanadu alt corp attacking OC without endagering the main Xanadu empire operations, ring a bell Focht? We didn't complain, it's part of the game, ccp developed these alliance systems to negagate that. Their solution is imperfect i agree but it makes us no less cheaters than those making alt corps to attack oc. It would be ironic to name now enslavers altcorp here declaring war on Xanadu, wouldnt it ? The point however is that altcorps did not bend the rules in any way or form, if OC had such a huge problem with 1 of them they could have declared war on the mother corp in return (for free as in those times the only limitation was the warslots). You never did, so im confident it wasnt a problem. On the otherhand, finding a weak spot in the game mechanics and using it to your ingame advantage with the sole purpose to save money and to get an ingame advantage falls under ccps rules of exploiting in my personal view. You'd have a point there Focht... had we complained in anyway that alt wars were illegal or something, but no unfortunatley, were not whining *****es. It's by no means exploting, sure it's showing that ccp has made a mistake with their system, we admit this, we admitted this before we did this. However at no point did CCP go "leaving your alliance and declaring war on another is illegal" - hell they even _BALANCED_ it by making it cost more for 1 corp to declare war on an alliance. So it would seem your personal opinion thankfully isn't coherent with ccp's. :-) Reverend Necrona
Focht	Posted - 2004.12.05 20:21:00 - [89] Originally by: Reverend Necrona You'd have a point there Focht... had we complained in anyway that alt wars were illegal or something, but no unfortunatley, were not whining ***es. this would require a seperate thread so better lets not go there Quote:** It's by no means exploting, sure it's showing that ccp has made a mistake with their system, we admit this, we admitted this before we did this. However at no point did CCP go "leaving your alliance and declaring war on another is illegal" - hell they even _BALANCED_ it by making it cost more for 1 corp to declare war on an alliance. So it would seem your personal opinion thankfully isn't coherent with ccp's. :-) On the first part we can agree, ccp did not much right with their exodus patch, POS, Alliancewarfare, the scanner and probes are all imbalanced and crappy. Sadly this seems to be the best they can present. However exploiting a known weakness (or using it to your advantage) is questionable at best. That my view isnt covering ccps (current) view on things doesnt make it any less worth either so that part of your post was completely useless.... However ccp changes their view like other ppl underwear so im confident we will see sooner or later some patching to fix this obvious weakness in the game mechanics. That it was a CA corp using it was the least surprising tho.
Focht	Posted - 2004.12.05 20:21:00 - [90] Originally by: Reverend Necrona You'd have a point there Focht... had we complained in anyway that alt wars were illegal or something, but no unfortunatley, were not whining ***es. this would require a seperate thread so better lets not go there Quote:** It's by no means exploting, sure it's showing that ccp has made a mistake with their system, we admit this, we admitted this before we did this. However at no point did CCP go "leaving your alliance and declaring war on another is illegal" - hell they even _BALANCED_ it by making it cost more for 1 corp to declare war on an alliance. So it would seem your personal opinion thankfully isn't coherent with ccp's. :-) On the first part we can agree, ccp did not much right with their exodus patch, POS, Alliancewarfare, the scanner and probes are all imbalanced and crappy. Sadly this seems to be the best they can present. However exploiting a known weakness (or using it to your advantage) is questionable at best. That my view isnt covering ccps (current) view on things doesnt make it any less worth either so that part of your post was completely useless.... However ccp changes their view like other ppl underwear so im confident we will see sooner or later some patching to fix this obvious weakness in the game mechanics. That it was a CA corp using it was the least surprising tho.

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