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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Argo Pyxis
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Posted - 2010.05.10 19:24:00 -
[1]
I know that seeing CCP directly responding to this is a long shot with the falloff of a 125mm AC shooting snowballs made of dry snow, but as a user of the Mac client and a technically-inclined one at that, I hope that with Tyrannis being just barely over 1 week away that CCP could give us a preview of any Mac client changes (and perhaps use this opportunity to trumpet any improvements in it.)
Specifically on the perennial topic of performance, will CCP be packaging the client binaries in a version of Cider which gives any noticeable improvement over what 127138 is packaged in?
Some personal background:
I run current EVE clients on relatively recent Mac Pros and Macbook Pros (the former being a 8 core 2.8GHz system with the 8800GT card and 8GB o' RAM and the latter being a hot-off-the-line 2.66GHz i7 with 4GB of RAM) and regardless of what one may try, the fans in either system will spin up and scream like a banshee before my character even enters the game after client start. To be honest, it has gotten to the point of me having to consider limiting my game play for fear of prematurely causing a fan to fail, which with the tight temperature tolerances of today's various components is not a condition to be taken lightly.
I chalk this up of course to Cider being what it is. What it does is great, but how it does it is not so much. We know that Cider is a commercial product which CCP licenses to distribute a Mac client, so it would be reasonable to assume that CCP works with Transgaming to improve Cider... so let's hear it... can us Mac devotees of EVE expect any improvements with the Tyrannis release?
AP
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Ksharaa
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Posted - 2010.05.12 08:28:00 -
[2]
Quote: regardless of what one may try, the fans in either system will spin up and scream like a banshee before my character even enters the game after client start. To be honest, it has gotten to the point of me having to consider limiting my game play for fear of prematurely causing a fan to fail
Same here. Late 2009 MacBook, 2GB ram, 2.13Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M. All settings on low. WTF!
Quote: can us Mac devotees of EVE expect any improvements with the Tyrannis release?
Does CCP even acknowledge that there is something really wrong with the mac client?
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2010.05.12 11:49:00 -
[3]
I agree that that their is something funky with the client and how it uses CPU resources. It's a problem which seems to be partly exasperated by Cider (the wrapper around EVE to allow it to function on the Mac).
However, it's up to Transgaming to provide updates to Cider not CCP. So it'd be nice to hear from them about any updates we're due to recieve vis a vi performance/utilisation and such. But they seem to have vanished from the forums again.
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Flynn Fetladral
BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2010.05.12 17:51:00 -
[4]
Maybe if we are really really lucky... CCP will move over to Open GL and use Steam to distribute native versions to PC and Mac (and Linux) all at once :P
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Argo Pyxis
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Posted - 2010.05.12 18:16:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Flynn Fetladral Maybe if we are really really lucky... CCP will move over to Open GL and use Steam to distribute native versions to PC and Mac (and Linux) all at once :P
In all fairness to CCP, creating a native Mac client would involve far more work than just converting DirectInput, DirectSound, and Direct3D calls to their OSX analogs (Cocoa events, CoreAudio and OpenGL/CoreGraphics respectively.)
Things that come to mind are windows and window custom widgets, basic file and network IO calls and handling and so forth. The only thing that could be plausibly portable with little or no change is the game logic itself... but if that's written in VB or VC, that's also out the window (pun not intended). So it's really not as simple to make a truly native Mac client as some suppose it to be as OSX and Windows are really quite different in this regard.
So for now Cider is the best hope, but as everyone can agree it leaves a lot to be desired. Having a client which works is one thing, but having it also work well is something we don't have. Cider is part and parcel to making it work well... so I hope CCP will choose not to continue to be maddeningly opaque about their plans in this area.
/AP
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Solana Dal'Annae
Silverleaf Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.13 08:23:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Solana Dal''Annae on 13/05/2010 08:23:52
Quote:
Macintosh +Download speed of updates should no longer be unnecessarily constrained by the EVE client architecture.
Oh yeah, that's nice.
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.13 11:40:00 -
[7]
Hi there, I'm sorry for the lack of Mac fixes listed in the patch notes. I'll try to make sure this doesn't happen again. There are a number of smaller issues we fixed but these two are probably of most interest to you:
- Probe move box sometimes does not appear
- Mouse cursor sticks to windows (no pun intended) when resizing them
------------------ Tester, Scrum Master Quality Assurance
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Argo Pyxis
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Posted - 2010.05.13 15:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Hi there, I'm sorry for the lack of Mac fixes listed in the patch notes. I'll try to make sure this doesn't happen again. There are a number of smaller issues we fixed but these two are probably of most interest to you:
- Probe move box sometimes does not appear
- Mouse cursor sticks to windows (no pun intended) when resizing them
Okay, this is excellent! These both are the usability bugs I run in to the most often. Thank you for addressing these.
/AP
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Solana Dal'Annae
Silverleaf Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.13 16:02:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Solana Dal''Annae on 13/05/2010 16:02:28
Originally by: Argo Pyxis Okay, this is excellent! These both are the usability bugs I run in to the most often. Thank you for addressing these.
/AP
Echoing this.
Those two are bugs I run into pretty much every time I do something more than spin ships.
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WittyName Here
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Posted - 2010.05.14 04:21:00 -
[10]
Edited by: WittyName Here on 14/05/2010 04:25:06 Edited by: WittyName Here on 14/05/2010 04:22:14
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Hi there, I'm sorry for the lack of Mac fixes listed in the patch notes. I'll try to make sure this doesn't happen again. There are a number of smaller issues we fixed but these two are probably of most interest to you:
- Probe move box sometimes does not appear
- Mouse cursor sticks to windows (no pun intended) when resizing them
Glad to see the second problem being fixed - I've had times where it has gotten stuck to the point that I have to force quite the client.
On another note it would also be cool to receive more information regarding Mac client improvements.
It would also be good to know (however unlikely) if there was any progress on improving the Mac Client's performance. It doesn't seem like a very inefficient client. I'm using a late 2009 Macbook Pro (2.8 GHz, 4GB RAM) and my MBP heats up like crazy, with graphics setting turned to low, no other applications running other than EVE. I am now considering getting a PC soon because I am sure that prolonged use of the EVE Client on my MBP is damaging.
Others will argue and tell Mac users to get a PC to avoid this problem. However, if CCP and EVE really supports developing EVE for Mac, I hope there will be better steps taken. As it stands now, this game is crap for a Mac. I see no point in CCP further extending support for Mac Clients if they do not fix this problem, seriously. I would rather you abandon Mac support if all I get is a sub par Mac client that receives little attention. It just seems like you guys are only fixing little bugs and stuff that are annoying, and not improving the client itself. I know this is mostly because of Cider, but if CCP is willing to continue down the path of a Mac Client, please at least inform us of the steps taken to solve this problem.
It is not "fair" that Mac users have to use a sub-par client, if indeed CCP is supporting Mac users. If you guys aren't willing to take drastic (or more "ambitious") steps to improve the Mac Client, I see no point for you guys to continue Mac support - I would just switch to PCs, and I would be VERY unwilling to do so.
Don't take me wrong, I really like CCP and all that they are doing. But while roaming this section of the forums, I can't help but wonder if CCP is really doing anything with the Mac client at all.
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eXeler0n
Caldari Free Space Pioneers
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Posted - 2010.05.15 12:38:00 -
[11]
Yeah, the actual cider port is really crappy. Im happy to see, that bux get fixed.
But for long term mac support I hope, that CCP will make a new client with opengl. This can run in windows, in os x and in linux. CCP will have a multiplatform client and more ppl playing, because they support all the main operating systems.
And I think using OpenGL will be cheaper because no needing of licences.
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Rackhir
Amarr Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.05.17 15:49:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Rackhir on 17/05/2010 15:49:48
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
- Mouse cursor sticks to windows (no pun intended) when resizing them
Hooray! This was really getting annoying. |
Carazon
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Posted - 2010.05.18 00:37:00 -
[13]
To be honest, I think it almost may have something to do with the computers rather than EVE. I use a hackintosh (Mac OS 10.6.3), with 4 GB RAM, Nvidia GTX 280, and a C2D 3.0 GHz. Fans stay gentle the entire play time, with solid (locked) 60 FPS on max settings. And this is at 1680x1050, or even dual client, dual monitors.
So maybe it's got more to do with Mac OS's fan control? But that would be the same. Must be an Apple hardware issue. Let me know if you have any questions about my setup, because I'm not having any problems.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.05.18 02:08:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Carazon So maybe it's got more to do with Mac OS's fan control? But that would be the same. Must be an Apple hardware issue. Let me know if you have any questions about my setup, because I'm not having any problems.
The fans would only spin up like mad if Mac OS X was able to control the fan in your hackintosh. Most PC hardware has fans that run at a fixed speed (yes, some gaming rigs have variable speed fans... which are usually hardwired to run at maximum speed *facepalm*), so Mac OS couldn't change the speed if it wanted to.
So you're not having any problems yet. How hot does your hackintosh get? Are you getting lucky with convection cooling?
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
WittyName Here
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Carazon So maybe it's got more to do with Mac OS's fan control? But that would be the same. Must be an Apple hardware issue. Let me know if you have any questions about my setup, because I'm not having any problems.
The fans would only spin up like mad if Mac OS X was able to control the fan in your hackintosh. Most PC hardware has fans that run at a fixed speed (yes, some gaming rigs have variable speed fans... which are usually hardwired to run at maximum speed *facepalm*), so Mac OS couldn't change the speed if it wanted to.
So you're not having any problems yet. How hot does your hackintosh get? Are you getting lucky with convection cooling?
For my MBP, I use SMC fan control to bump it too 6000 rpm and it still gets pretty hot... averaging at 80c.... :(
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Pheonix Summers
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Posted - 2010.05.19 03:33:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Hi there, I'm sorry for the lack of Mac fixes listed in the patch notes. I'll try to make sure this doesn't happen again. There are a number of smaller issues we fixed but these two are probably of most interest to you:
- Probe move box sometimes does not appear
- Mouse cursor sticks to windows (no pun intended) when resizing them
I was also told (through a petition) that the modifier keys (shift, alt, ctrl) should no longer stick and cause undesirable effects like activation/deactivation of unintended modules, and whilst typing, a crash.
I would love for that to be true since it was out on previous patch notes as being fixed, but so far it is most certainly not.
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2010.05.19 20:03:00 -
[17]
Great news! Thank you.
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Iton Shebb
Gallente Non-aligned Organizational Membership Society
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Posted - 2010.05.22 23:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Hi there, I'm sorry for the lack of Mac fixes listed in the patch notes. I'll try to make sure this doesn't happen again. There are a number of smaller issues we fixed but these two are probably of most interest to you:
- Probe move box sometimes does not appear
- Mouse cursor sticks to windows (no pun intended) when resizing them
Excellent! I'm very, very excited that the sticky cursor is being addressed. It's a minor annoyance, but happens regularly. Any chance you could squeeze a graphical fix in the patch too?
/me crosses fingers
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emperor palpy
Amarr Endless Destruction Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2010.05.24 06:59:00 -
[19]
Edited by: emperor palpy on 24/05/2010 07:03:20 it seems im having many of the same troubles and frustrations as others who post here =/ ... i have one of those 2ft mac osx machines (dont have the exact hardware specs atm as im posting from my ipod) and i run leapord. i got smc fan control and settings on low and fans are running at almost 6k rpm with temps at 90f easy, mabey 30fps if im lucky and terrible game stability (half the time i go to petition something it crashes as i type it up rofl) i dont use drones on almost any of my ships cause theres a big chance im gonna lose them to a crash =( and many times when i am near any object in space (or even if im not sometimes) i get some crazy graphics problems (i think the term is screen tearingà) ccp badly needs to take a look at different solutions for macs imho cause cider just aint cuttin it =*( also srry for teh wall'o'text...just had to let myself be heard (you know how it is =) ) (also did i mention it wont even let me run more than one client? i tried a couple times but the whole system locks up and i have to shut it down the hard way) *fox bark* |
Blasphemour
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Posted - 2010.05.25 11:06:00 -
[20]
wow... I mean... just wow.... There is a ton of problems with the client, weird stuff, annoying stuff, heating, crashing, awful performance, and what do we get?
- the probe box shouldn't disappear anymore - the mouse shouldn't stick anymore
It's cool these things get fixed, since it is very annoying, but what about the other stuff? I have an old PC collecting dust at home, which runs EVE more smooth than my 1 year old Macbook Pro, with specs that would make anyone die of laughing.
I know it's nearly impossible to build a native Mac client the way EVE is coded now, and I know that Cider isn't a CCP product, but you'd think that CCP would kick some Transgaming behind over the problems that are still in there.
Any word from Transgaming on these issues? Any word at all?
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quickshot89
Caldari b.b.k Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.05.25 13:33:00 -
[21]
as long as the patch doesnt screw up my client, im not fussed, the cusor sticky bug was annoying, but as its being fixed im happy. Im on the new '10 MBP i7 15", havnt seen many issues yet, case gets alittle warm on the top of the keyboard, but it happens with portal for mac too, so not fussed. Maybe im more lucky than some of you lot here?
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emperor palpy
Amarr Endless Destruction Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:30:00 -
[22]
this is a video i have made showing exactly the type of graphics issues i have http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr1UUnFtDWc *fox bark* |
Charlemeign
BESTIAL CARNAGE Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.05.26 16:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Hi there, I'm sorry for the lack of Mac fixes listed in the patch notes. I'll try to make sure this doesn't happen again. There are a number of smaller issues we fixed but these two are probably of most interest to you:
- Probe move box sometimes does not appear
- Mouse cursor sticks to windows (no pun intended) when resizing them
If this isn't tee biggest **** off Macs I've gotten from CCP I don't know what is
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Alt Nearing
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Posted - 2010.05.26 19:51:00 -
[24]
The funny thing is i have all the problems you guys have, but i can run 2x eve clients in emulation via Parallels 5 and had 90+ frames on each client with all settings on high. Well, i COULD. Because with 10.6.4 there was a graphics change at apple. Parallels found the error after 1 week and told me that the bug that made eve unplayable due to heavy graphic errors would was fixed but the fix would only be in the next patch and they would now be able to tell me when that one was released. So i thought "ok, 1 week with only 1 client with sucky graphics is ok" but i think it was 5 weeks now. Which damn company lets their costumers wait 5 weeks for a patch they already have? |
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CCP Casqade
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Posted - 2010.05.26 20:19:00 -
[25]
Mac specific patch notes here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1322008 |
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MacProsper
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Posted - 2010.05.27 12:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: WittyName Here Edited by: WittyName Here on 14/05/2010 04:25:06 Glad to see the second problem being fixed - I've had times where it has gotten stuck to the point that I have to force quite the client.
Well, a side note: most times you were not required to quit the client: if you press "Enter" (or any other key which routes to a button) the window closes (Enter is most times routed to OK, which closes the window then)
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Lenore Leelu
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Posted - 2010.05.27 17:34:00 -
[27]
I also play on a mac, a 27" quad core, recently upgraded to 8 gig ram. The thing is when I want to play EVE I bootcamp to windows 7, fire up macfanx64 and speed up the fans (macfanx64 1600 1600 1600) and then launch Eve in all its goodness. I know that most people dont want the extra expense of securing another operating system licence just to play games, but I figure cider is stealing just a few too many frames per second to make playing in Snow Leopard viable.
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WittyName Here
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Posted - 2010.06.04 16:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lenore Leelu I also play on a mac, a 27" quad core, recently upgraded to 8 gig ram. The thing is when I want to play EVE I bootcamp to windows 7, fire up macfanx64 and speed up the fans (macfanx64 1600 1600 1600) and then launch Eve in all its goodness. I know that most people dont want the extra expense of securing another operating system licence just to play games, but I figure cider is stealing just a few too many frames per second to make playing in Snow Leopard viable.
I run EVE on Bootcamp Windows XP now. My issue with this problem is that we are circumventing the Mac Client. Either improve the Mac Client - or just drop support for it. CCP is just wasting resources on the Mac Client if they are continuously producing a crappy client. I would rather they focus on the improving the game instead of making a crappy product.
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