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smaller carriers

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will mcgowen	Posted - 2010.05.12 12:24:00 - [1] carriers now are cool, and serve a very important purpose in low sec and null sec space. but my corp only handles high sec operations right now and i would like a small battleship sized carrier that can use only 5 fighters or fighter bombers, has less corp hanger space, less hanger space, still has the fitting bay, has less fitting slots, just an overall smaller carrier that doesn't have jump drive ability, i really like the idea of carriers, support, swarm of fighters also to act as a repair ship for others, but the idea of low sec space doesn't appeal to me right now, and probably wont for awhile. another suggestion on the high sec carrier idea is to make it just one ship, like the orca that all factions could use so that it would be just another niche ship.
Doggy Dogwoofwoof	Posted - 2010.05.12 12:51:00 - [2] This is always a good idea but people will call the fighters overpowerd. this has been proposed alot,
will mcgowen	Posted - 2010.05.12 12:57:00 - [3] well that is one reason why i limited it to 5 fighters at most, and we can take the bombers away, just fighters, mind you this will be a slower moving ship and the fighters will be its only offensive power. and heck make it a tech2 ship if you have to, so it is expensive and takes awhile to train, i just like the idea of carriers in some fashion for missions and for smaller scale fleet actions. or another idea is, instead of 5 fighters, how bout being able to command 10 drones, so instead of fighters we get drones that are smaller and dont hit as hard. these are just ideas, but i would love to see this work
Simeon Tor	Posted - 2010.05.12 13:00:00 - [4] Originally by: will mcgowen Will's idea Being battleship sized and having just drones it sounds a lot like an Orca, not saying that's your solution but if all you need is a small mobile mod storage and refitting location then.. why not.
will mcgowen	Posted - 2010.05.12 13:29:00 - [5] while an orca works, it is not meant for fleet combat, not enough highs for running armor or sheild repairers, and links, it doesnt have enough survivability for somethign like that either, i am sure i could build an orca to survive pretty well, but not as well as a ship designed for that purpose.
will mcgowen	Posted - 2010.05.12 14:05:00 - [6] Edited by: will mcgowen on 12/05/2010 14:05:41 this is the closest thing i could come up with that would be a useful fleet drone orca, it still lacks some important qualities, i had to use 3 different tanks just to make what i think would be a survivable combat orca, a logistics ship would prolly survive better, but with less drones. it could also do abit of refinement. [Orca, orca combat] 2x Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Medium Shield Transporter II Medium Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 400) Medium Shield Booster II Medium Hull Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Large Ancillary Current Router II Large Drone Scope Chip II Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II 5x Valkyrie II 5x Warrior II
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.05.12 14:05:00 - [7] fighters in highsec is a no go. and for repping power you can bring logistic cruisers. a pair of guardians/basilisks can put out a nice amount of reps.
Czert ElPrezidente Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.12 14:12:00 - [8] Why are figters in hig sec problem ? And jup, I will love to see light/escort carriers in game, together with fleet carriers . :). ------------------------------------------------ http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm&c=11 - mod for one of best game ever
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.05.12 14:15:00 - [9] Edited by: darius mclever on 12/05/2010 14:17:30 Well if you really want to bring the orca into missions i would rather go with this: Quote: [Orca, mission impossible?] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Domination X-Large Shield Booster Medium Shield Transporter II Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Large Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 630dps burst tank. runs everything for 51s and local tank for 1min46s. (should be enough time to bail out the orca in case it gets full aggro.) but tbh ... i would rather bring turtle tanking BS with cap transfer between each other. (ravens/domis/phoons/geddons) or just logistics. Quote: [Orca, mission impossible?] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Domination X-Large Shield Booster Medium Shield Transporter II Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Large Core Defence Capacitor safeguard I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 better rigs. 12+mins of local tank with 478 dps tank. (EFT omni)
will mcgowen	Posted - 2010.05.12 14:17:00 - [10] Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente Why are figters in hig sec problem ? And jup, I will love to see light/escort carriers in game, together with fleet carriers . :). finnally someone who agrees! i know they have ships who have large drone bays, but they are not purposed for more than 5 at a time and are armed with guns still. i am talking about a gunless ship, that is made to just run either drones or fighters, if drones 10 out at a time, if fighters 5 out at a time because they are abit more powerful and some feel overpowered for highsec
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.05.12 14:25:00 - [11] Edited by: darius mclever on 12/05/2010 14:34:38 you know ... 5 fighters with all lvl5 skills give you 500dps. a dominix with 5 ogre II and all lvl5 skills gives you 475dps. (garde II and t1 sentry drone augmentor rig 495 dps/518dps with a t2 rig if you want to pimp fit.) if you fit the dominix with logistics in the highs you get enough rep power for lvl5 missions in highsec. (I leave figuring out a fitting for that to you) so that is effectively what you would get out of your highsec carrier aswell dps wise. what role would be left for the ship again? IMHO CCP gave you the tools for a highsec "carrier" already. you just have to use them. bring 2 of those. cap stable when they have cap transfer running against each other. tanks 1487dps vs sansha. might be a bit less or more for other mission specific hardeners. Quote: [Dominix, turtle] Damage Control II Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Sensor Booster II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Energy Transfer Array II Large Energy Transfer Array II 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Drone Link Augmentor I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Remote Repair Augmentor I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Garde II x5 Ogre II x6 Hammerhead II x7 Hobgoblin II x6
Czert ElPrezidente Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.12 14:51:00 - [12] If small carier will be in DPS efectively same as dominix, then where is problem ? In that domonix is one race, and escort carrier will be multi-racial ? ------------------------------------------------ http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm&c=11 - mod for one of best game ever
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.05.12 15:24:00 - [13] a small titan is the next on your wish list? Get out of the high sec if you wanna play with big stuff.
Simeon Tor	Posted - 2010.05.12 15:33:00 - [14] Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente If small carier will be in DPS efectively same as dominix, then where is problem ? In that domonix is one race, and escort carrier will be multi-racial ? What you're saying is "lets have a new ship designed because a Dominix already does that much damage", what everyone else is saying is "why spend months working on a new ship that two people want and that serves no real role when a Dominix would do just as well."
Grarr Wrexx	Posted - 2010.05.12 16:43:00 - [15] Originally by: Simeon Tor Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente If small carier will be in DPS efectively same as dominix, then where is problem ? In that domonix is one race, and escort carrier will be multi-racial ? What you're saying is "lets have a new ship designed because a Dominix already does that much damage", what everyone else is saying is "why spend months working on a new ship that two people want and that serves no real role when a Dominix would do just as well." Ding ding ding, we have a winner. It sounds like you just want a Dominix with a lot more EHP and drones that can warp around. So, why would people still use Dominixes then?
Doggy Dogwoofwoof	Posted - 2010.05.12 19:12:00 - [16] i love this idea i just said what got said to me when i proposed it. high sec carriers would be awesome.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.05.12 19:16:00 - [17] Originally by: Doggy Dogwoofwoof i love this idea i just said what got said to me when i proposed it. high sec carriers would be awesome. then buy a dominix and be done.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.05.12 19:29:00 - [18] Throw a small (1-2 frigates) Maintenance Array onto the Black Ops and your goal of a support ship is met and you'll have taken a step towards making BO's more useful to boot! PS: Fighters are 100 times the size of heavy drones with cruiser level EHP .. fielding them from anything short of a full-blown carrier would make little sense.
Trebor Whettam	Posted - 2010.05.12 19:50:00 - [19] Originally by: will mcgowen Edited by: will mcgowen on 12/05/2010 14:05:41 this is the closest thing i could come up with that would be a useful fleet drone orca, it still lacks some important qualities, i had to use 3 different tanks just to make what i think would be a survivable combat orca, a logistics ship would prolly survive better, but with less drones. it could also do abit of refinement. [Orca, orca combat] 2x Medium Remote Armor Repair System II Medium Shield Transporter II Medium Capacitor Booster II (Cap Booster 400) Medium Shield Booster II Medium Hull Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Large Ancillary Current Router II Large Drone Scope Chip II Large Drone Control Range Augmentor II 5x Valkyrie II 5x Warrior II 9/10 -- Only because nobody has thought to call you on it.
1600 RT	Posted - 2010.05.12 20:34:00 - [20] new mission runner high sec afk boat? no thanks
Sig Sour	Posted - 2010.05.12 20:43:00 - [21] Domi, Rattlesnake, Gila, Ishtar. Those are your high sec 'mini carriers'.
Czert ElPrezidente Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.13 15:08:00 - [22] Originally by: Simeon Tor What you're saying is "lets have a new ship designed because a Dominix already does that much damage", what everyone else is saying is "why spend months working on a new ship that two people want and that serves no real role when a Dominix would do just as well." Im sure that obe small carrier (new skill) is out, then surely more than 2 ppl will use it. Currently in game you can go fast to use figters, but way to use (fleet) carriers is much slower. And no, no need for next time mini titan (for now) :). Mowing to low sec isnt solution - because these big bastards take much resources to build, and this version will be less mineral intensive. Which in fact allow much more pilots who will fly them (even in low sec). ------------------------------------------------ http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm&c=11 - mod for one of best game ever
Czert ElPrezidente Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.13 15:14:00 - [23] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida PS: Fighters are 100 times the size of heavy drones with cruiser level EHP .. fielding them from anything short of a full-blown carrier would make little sense. If you look at history of wet navym, then you will discover that many carriers using same fighters, but was very diverse in carrying capacity, ranging from 20 planes (escort/light/trainers) up to 90 (fleet). So, when we have fleets in game, why we cant have light too ? ------------------------------------------------ http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm&c=11 - mod for one of best game ever
Arvella Kadori Gallente Federal Legion	Posted - 2010.05.13 15:44:00 - [24] Edited by: Arvella Kadori on 13/05/2010 15:46:23 Well IF there should be another version of a small Carrier, it should have mostly the Attributes like the normal carriers. Means: Capital-Size, Just low/0.0, Jumpdrive only, No Bonus on Remoterepping, Triage etc. and max 10 Fighters OR 10 Fighterbombers (No Fitting bonus on Drone control units) but Dockable. Means an "Mini-Supercarrier" with much less DPS as an real Supercarrier and a bit less EHP like normal Carriers but more expensive than normal Carriers(otherwise they would be to overpowered for their Costs/efficiency) So a "Offensive-Only"-Carrier for mostly Anti-Capital and Battleship Purposes without any logistical Components like Triage, Corphangar, EWAR-Immunity and related.
Party Scout	Posted - 2010.05.13 17:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Czert ElPrezidente Originally by: Hirana Yoshida PS: Fighters are 100 times the size of heavy drones with cruiser level EHP .. fielding them from anything short of a full-blown carrier would make little sense. If you look at history of wet navym, then you will discover that many carriers using same fighters, but was very diverse in carrying capacity, ranging from 20 planes (escort/light/trainers) up to 90 (fleet). So, when we have fleets in game, why we cant have light too ? I think people are more interested in what it brings to the game. The idea of a small high sec carrier sounds pretty "cool", but it does not add much to the game. As mentioned before, a Domi/Ishtar/Rattle can do pretty much what you are proposing, so adding another ship that fills a similar role would not add much to the game. Real carriers are support ships. Their fighters are usually given out to other ships, and it's main role is remote rep in combat, and transport when out of combat. A high-sec carrier would not be able to fill those roles, so it would overlap with the role a Domi/Ishtar can fill. There is the problem. So yes, it sounds cool, but does not add much to the game.
Neutrino Sunset Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse	Posted - 2010.05.14 03:55:00 - [26] Out of interest what is the very important job that carriers do these days? For corps or small alliances logistics cruisers rep better. (Unless you want to die and use triage without a mega defence blob). They do less dps than a single gank battleship, and no dps at all if triaged. They can move rigged ships around, although if you move your mate's ship for him can anyone tell me whether his insurance will still be intact when he gets it back? In giant blob warfare gangs of them triaged make it possible to do all the mindnumbing dumb structure repping and they can also be used as rep for titans, supercarriers and any dreads which survive coming out of seige. The way I see it since the Mothership changes Supercarriers are now basically what combat carriers should be, and existing carriers seem to be de facto escort carriers anyway. Does anyone else see it this way or am I over looking the value of some other abilities of standard carriers?
Tiserra	Posted - 2010.05.14 10:47:00 - [27] Go for a hybrid carrier. Siege launcher type at the front, only one though and a fighter bomber hanger at the rear. Give it a black ops jump drive and make it bigger than an Orca. Totally unbalanced design but we need something shiney to build with all the spare minerals on the market Oh and make it high-sec capable so that T1 frigates can with enough numbers take it down if caught on its own at a gate but for empire wars as part of a gang imagine the fun camping the gates in Jita
Lim Hiaret	Posted - 2010.05.16 09:32:00 - [28] Fighters or not. I realy like the idea of a deep space/WH support carrier. The Orca is awsome but hey, thats not what it is meant for. A support carrier should have a maintenance bay large enough for 2 or 3 BS, or a couple of BCs. Repair, refinery and manufacturing facilities good enough to supply a small fleet.... (could be some sort of triage mode) Than add some epic arcs that require 2-3 weeks deployments in Jove space.... or somewhere else. And don't forget to make it coveops for the
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.05.16 10:21:00 - [29] Edited by: darius mclever on 16/05/2010 10:24:43 Originally by: Lim Hiaret Fighters or not. I realy like the idea of a deep space/WH support carrier. The Orca is awsome but hey, thats not what it is meant for. A support carrier should have a maintenance bay large enough for 2 or 3 BS, or a couple of BCs. Repair, refinery and manufacturing facilities good enough to supply a small fleet.... (could be some sort of triage mode) Than add some epic arcs that require 2-3 weeks deployments in Jove space.... or somewhere else. And don't forget to make it coveops for the You want to look into the hive ship thread.

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