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High sec ganking.

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Gil Warden Gallente Priory of Empire Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.15 18:07:00 - [1] There is something seriously broken when we can observe the same asshat suicide ganking in high sec several days in a row. The parts that are broken is that it is currently profitable to insure a T1 ship and get it blown up when ganking just a few miners. The possible solution are simple enough: * A ship can never be insured above 80% of market value. * Ships insurance is invalidated (with no payback of the premium) if the player is the aggressor on non war or kill right targets, while in high sec. * Limit the effectiveness of (or remove) anything above small smart bombs in high sec. * Block pilots from entering ships if they have too low sec status for a given high sec system, or beef up the local/faction military response time to more quickly take down criminals who enter systems they should not be in. And if all you have to say is "It's all part of the game" or "Stop weeping" or something along those lines, don't bother responding. It is not constructive.
Kiritsubo Ritual Suicide	Posted - 2010.05.15 18:10:00 - [2] Griefing is a feature. Thanks for playing.
Abbot Laarkin Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks	Posted - 2010.05.15 18:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Gil Warden There is something seriously broken when we can observe the same asshat suicide ganking in high sec several days in a row. The parts that are broken is that it is currently profitable to insure a T1 ship and get it blown up when ganking just a few miners. The possible solution are simple enough: * A ship can never be insured above 80% of market value. * Ships insurance is invalidated (with no payback of the premium) if the player is the aggressor on non war or kill right targets, while in high sec. * Limit the effectiveness of (or remove) anything above small smart bombs in high sec. * Block pilots from entering ships if they have too low sec status for a given high sec system, or beef up the local/faction military response time to more quickly take down criminals who enter systems they should not be in. And if all you have to say is "It's all part of the game" or "Stop weeping" or something along those lines, don't bother responding. It is not constructive. HINT If you don't want flames or trolls, being openly insulting in your OP is not particularly smart. Also, Insurance is changing, wait a little and see what happens. Set the "repeat offender" red and keep an eye on local? As for the rest of the post, why just smartbombs? While we're at it lets ban Large Arty, Large Beams, Torps, Ravens, Geddons, Domi's, (to save on my character limit just insert any military vessel here). In fact the only ships that should be allowed in high sec are Freighters, CNR's (but can't have more than two in any high sec system in case they gank a freighter), Barges, and newb frigs (but only with civ guns-just in case). Oh, again search tool is your friend You just had to go and make this post just as I ran out of coffee didn't you, now I look all mean And before you say it...No I have never performed a suicide gank, and the only time I would is if it was for specific revenge purposes. ---- Originally by: Sir Carnage Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37? I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
Party Scout	Posted - 2010.05.15 19:46:00 - [4] Yeah, there are a lot of topics for this. All I would do to fix it, is make ship scanning an illegal act (like stealing from a can). That would help a lot without making it completely safe, or impossible to gank. Anyway, discussed to death in a buuuunch of other threads :S
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.05.15 20:31:00 - [5] CCP say they are fine with ganking and it's a part of the game, so suck it up. One thing they did say they may look at at a later time, is the insurance payout.
Veliria	Posted - 2010.05.15 20:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Mag's CCP say they are fine with ganking and it's a part of the game, so suck it up. One thing they did say they may look at at a later time, is the insurance payout. ^this Insurance for a suicide run is a bit off, but that's the only issue I see with ganking in high-sec. It's your fault if you think moving 10billion ISK in a Badger is a good idea or you simply can't pay attention to local and your surroundings.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.15 21:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Gil Warden There is something seriously broken when we can observe the same asshat suicide ganking in high sec several days in a row. Ganking is not unique to EVE. Take a game like ANNO - an economy simulation and a strategy game. What you do in ANNO is to build villages on island, develop them into cities, and with the money you make do you finance your military and conquer other islands. In ANNO does it have events like volcano eruptions, droughts and hurricanes - events that cannot be controlled and which destroy parts of your cities and farms. These events are not fun, but make the game challenging. They ask of you to prepare for them and plan ahead, but they can also weaken your enemies. Ganking in EVE is the equivalent to the devastating events in a game like ANNO. Ganking is not a game mechanic, but it teaches one to make virtues out of necessities in the same way. Do not take ganking personal beyond the point where you swear and curse the other player, or else will you playing a good game the wrong way! A ganker plays EVE the quick'n'dirty way. Everything they do leads to a depletion of their resources and is typical for a ruinous play-style. If you plan ahead and prepare will you be playing EVE in a way they can not comprehend! It is then those who still need to understand this who fall victim to ganking. CCP has made changes in the past, to control the amount of ganking, and continues to do so. --
Ganagati Caldari Dark Ashes	Posted - 2010.05.15 22:24:00 - [8] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Gil Warden There is something seriously broken when we can observe the same asshat suicide ganking in high sec several days in a row. Everything they do leads to a depletion of their resources and is typical for a ruinous play-style. Everything you said I agree with COMPLETELY except for that one statement. Currently, ganking is a pretty well paying way to play EVE. If you follow the guidelines, you'll be able to use CONCORD to protect you up until the point of attack (at which point they blow you up and you retrieve the majority of your losses if not ALL of them from insurance)which, if planned properly, will pay EXTREMELY well based on the cargo dropped as long as a friend or alt picks it up. Absolutely no risk but lots of reward. Only an idiot would be out there suiciding and not making money.
Terminal Insanity Minmatar Gith Industries	Posted - 2010.05.15 23:06:00 - [9] Originally by: Gil Warden There is something seriously broken when we can observe the same asshat suicide ganking in high sec several days in a row. Yes, i completely agree. the broken part being the brains of the haulers who try to move expensive crap in t1 haulers between jita and amarr.
Rafter Man	Posted - 2010.05.16 04:05:00 - [10] Someone should learn to tank their hauler.

Hido Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.16 05:19:00 - [11] Easy solution = flag all PC's who open a wreckage/cargo can which does not belong to them, so that Concord can deal with it as "theft". After all the problem is not with the attacker who gets nailed by Concord, but the looter that follows doing it risk free Limited to high-sec though. Living the life Havin it large Welcome to the land of the rising sun
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.16 06:11:00 - [12] Edited by: Ranka Mei on 16/05/2010 06:12:45 Originally by: Ganagati Currently, ganking is a pretty well paying way to play EVE. If you follow the guidelines, you'll be able to use CONCORD to protect you up until the point of attack (at which point they blow you up and you retrieve the majority of your losses if not ALL of them from insurance) which, if planned properly, will pay EXTREMELY well based on the cargo dropped as long as a friend or alt picks it up. Absolutely no risk but lots of reward. Which is precisely why suicide ganking should be nerfed. Couldn't have listed better reasons myself. :) I know CCP is rather obsessed with seeing PvP occur everywhere (to a fault, really, IMHO); but high-sec suicide ganking has got nothing to do with PvP -- however much the would-be pirates decry the fact. It's more like PvS (Person Versus System); as in suicide gankers massively abusing the Concord protection system put in place precisely to protect people from the likes of them! And don't feed me the ever-popular "CCP has given you tools tools to prevent suicides!" line. You can't. Scouting ahead really only works when the idiots are dumb enough to actually have their 20 ships hanging around the gate. It does exactly nothing for being jumped in-mission, or raiding parties converging on you otherwise. And in their infinite wisdom CCP have even made it absolutely impossible for you to fit your freighter. So, "Someone should learn to tank their hauler" I summarily dismiss right off the bat. Taking away their insurance, though a good start, probably wouldn't make too much of a difference. I heard CCP has never beeen willing to do so, though, because they absolutely want to make sure the noobs get compensated for when they accidentally attack someone in high-sec. That logic sound totally bogged to me. I've been a noob too (who hasn't?); but never ever, as in never, have I accidentally fired at someone in high-sec! I remember doing the drones tutorial, which was kinda terse at the time. Basically, after a few words, it just said something like: "Okay, now go out and shoot something." And I recall thinking that this was actually really bad advice to give to a noob. :) Yet even then I had the wherewithal to not go blindly shoot something in high-sec, LOL. And frankly, I doubt anyone I know has ever done so, either. I also recall being targetted in Jita, in my first few days. And hanging in front of the station (in a Kestrel, I think, it was), while bewildered a bit, even then I knew better not to take the bait and start shooting. So, if CCP's real reason for paying insurance, under all circumstances, is to be able to compensate braindead, trigger-happy noobs, then it's gotta be the lamest excuse I heard so far. In the final analysis, I think the only really effective suicide ganking nerf is to make ship- and cargo scanning an aggressive act. --
0n 1	Posted - 2010.05.16 07:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Ranka Mei Waffle... Your carebear tears are delicious. Amidoinitrite?
Gil Warden Gallente Priory of Empire Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.16 09:18:00 - [14] Originally by: Terminal Insanity Yes, i completely agree. the broken part being the brains of the haulers who try to move expensive crap in t1 haulers between jita and amarr. I'm not just talking about haulers. I'm talking about miners as well. The scenario I've seen is, a pilot jumps in with a fast ship, starts bumping some miners closer together (who WERE sensibly spaced out) and shortly after that two Battleships jumps in and smartbombs the 4-5 miners that got bumped. The problem is, there are really no defence, except that all miners in a belt warp out the second they see a non hauler/exhumer. But then the belts would be empty all the time. The bumped miners simply do not have time to realign and warp out, nor to move out of the blob created by the suicide gankers accomplice. Who by the way is also the one swooping back in after the gank to drop all the loot into a can which is then picked up by a hauler.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.16 09:59:00 - [15] Edited by: Whitehound on 16/05/2010 09:59:48 Originally by: Gil Warden I'm not just talking about haulers. I'm talking about miners as well. It is a problem. 0.0 and low-sec PvPers, who enter high-sec in order to play pi±ata with miners, because they are the easiest targets to hit, simply do not belong into the sandbox. If they lost all their ISKs in 0.0 and low-sec fights then they should not go picking on others just as easy as that. No one is losing tears over them, but it is wrong. It makes gankers a bunch of pathetic cowards and needs to get addressed. --
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.05.16 10:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 16/05/2010 09:59:48 Originally by: Gil Warden I'm not just talking about haulers. I'm talking about miners as well. It is a problem. 0.0 and low-sec PvPers, who enter high-sec in order to play pi±ata with miners, because they are the easiest targets to hit, simply do not belong into the sandbox. If they lost all their ISKs in 0.0 and low-sec fights then they should not go picking on others just as easy as that. No one is losing tears over them, but it is wrong. It makes gankers a bunch of pathetic cowards and needs to get addressed. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.16 11:15:00 - [17] Edited by: Whitehound on 16/05/2010 11:23:38 Originally by: Mag's That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. It comes with blushing. Edit: I forgot the pirate smiley. --
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.05.16 11:41:00 - [18] If you would take the time to read the patch notes, or research the hundreds of posts on the forums dealing with the Tyrannis expansion, you'd know that insurance is, in fact, being altered in such as way as to discourage suicide ganking. No longer will people be able to insure a ship for more than its replacement value. Sadly, you'll find that reducing insurance payouts will not prevent a large number of suicide ganks. [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.05.16 12:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Mara Rinn you'd know that insurance is, in fact, being altered in such as way as to discourage suicide ganking. Confirming that the changes being implemented will discourage suicide ganking.
Ganagati Caldari Dark Ashes	Posted - 2010.05.16 18:59:00 - [20] Originally by: Mag's Originally by: Mara Rinn you'd know that insurance is, in fact, being altered in such as way as to discourage suicide ganking. Confirming that the changes being implemented will discourage suicide ganking. It will more than likely reduce the amount of griefing. Griefing being where some pre-teen in a brutix randomly picks a hulk and pops it for the killmail and their tears while ganking usually entails the pointed killing of a ship worth money. The random griefing will not end per-say as there will always be folks with more money than sense OR folks who are about to quit and want to have a final hurrah. The gate ganking will not stop as even completely losing insurance payouts would not stop it from being profitable if they snag themselves a pretty solid T1 industrial carry.

Gil Warden Gallente Priory of Empire Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.20 07:45:00 - [21] Edited by: Gil Warden on 20/05/2010 07:51:23 Originally by: Mag's That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. <sarcasm type="sorta">Well, maybe that is because you are one of the wannabe pirates (cowards) who just want to stuff his KB with easy, defenceless kills.</sarcasm> Don't troll please, the topic is apparently hot enough as it is.
Gil Warden Gallente Priory of Empire Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2010.05.20 07:50:00 - [22] Originally by: Ganagati ...The gate ganking will not stop as even completely losing insurance payouts would not stop it from being profitable if they snag themselves a pretty solid T1 industrial carry. Gate camping is something else, I personally hate them, but unlike suicide ganks on easy and defenceless ships in highsec, they are an intended part of the game. Of course I can just sit back and shake my head when a large gate camp take down a solo frigate. Don't they realize that maybe that frigate was scouting, and they just scared away a hauler?
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.05.20 09:21:00 - [23] Man I love this game. No trolling here, you just don't get it. CCP likes the fact that you get ganked in empire, by us wannbe pirate cowards. But the icing on the proverbial cake, are the tears and whining. You didn't read Ganagati's reply correctly, he doesn't mention gate camping. But he missed my sarcasm it seems, so..... ____________________________________________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Marquis Zenas I.X Research	Posted - 2010.05.20 09:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Ganagati ... Griefing being where some pre-teen in a brutix randomly picks a hulk and pops it for the killmail and their tears while ganking usually entails the pointed killing of a ship worth money... Crashing a discoship into a highsec mining group != griefing, that's just random violence. Griefing = repeatadly going after and podding an individual with the intention to make them quit the game and can baiting rookies. -------------------------- The sig is empty
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.20 11:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Marquis Zenas Crashing a discoship into a highsec mining group != griefing, that's just random violence. Griefing = repeatadly going after and podding an individual with the intention to make them quit the game and can baiting rookies. No, it does not matter for what reasons something is done. Someone might gank another player again and again out of love, and it would still count as griefing. And if a player gets ganked by always different players then that is griefing, too. What matters is really just the frequency. Too much of it, and the complaints and comments on the forums get more and more. It remains a problem. Basically, what it has got to do with are the macro miners, who get ganked by other players on trips of self-justice. While the self-justice is funny, does it hit just anybody (see also: "witch hunt"), because one cannot tell who really is a macro miner and who is not. CCP will need to find a solution for the macro miner problem - and no got damn CAPTCHAs. But my head tells me that it will not end the problem, because miners are just so easy to pop. --
Marquis Zenas I.X Research	Posted - 2010.05.20 11:35:00 - [26] Edited by: Marquis Zenas on 20/05/2010 11:36:11 Originally by: Whitehound No, it does not matter for what reasons something is done. Someone might gank another player again and again out of love, and it would still count as griefing. Yep, thats griefing, repeatedly chasing someone for the sole intention of making them quit. Originally by: Whitehound And if a player gets ganked by always different players then that is griefing, too. What matters is really just the frequency. Too much of it, and the complaints and comments on the forums get more and more. Nope, that's not griefing, that's just playing eve. Everyone's a target. That's akin to complaining that you constantly get killed in Battlefield when you're trying to drive a tank. -------------------------- The sig is empty
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2010.05.20 11:48:00 - [27] Originally by: Gil Warden And if all you have to say is "It's all part of the game" or "Stop weeping" or something along those lines, don't bother responding. It is not constructive. And if all you have to say is "I want this game my way and anyone who thinks otherwise can F off!" don't bother making a topic.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.20 11:51:00 - [28] Originally by: Marquis Zenas Yep, thats griefing, repeatedly chasing someone for the sole intention of making them quit. Quote: Nope, that's not griefing, that's just playing eve. Everyone's a target. That's akin to complaining that you constantly get killed in Battlefield when you're trying to drive a tank. One can grief you by using multiple accounts or just calling friends on the phone to make it look like it is PvP, but it stays griefing. Several players can then accidentally grief a player without knowing that they are all ganking the same player again and again. --
Marquis Zenas I.X Research	Posted - 2010.05.20 11:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Whitehound One can grief you by using multiple accounts or just calling friends on the phone to make it look like it is PvP, but it stays griefing. That sounds paranoid. Also, it'd be a bit difficult to prove Originally by: Whitehound Several players can then accidentally grief a player without knowing that they are all ganking the same player again and again. Sounds like playing eve to me. I'd also ask what this individual is doing to garner such attention. -------------------------- The sig is empty
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.20 12:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Marquis Zenas I'd also ask what this individual is doing to garner such attention. Mining among others without knowing them, for example. Ice miners get ganked on a daily basis. The 10 minute cycle times of the ice harvesters makes them look very suspicious of being not at their keyboards. --



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