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CCP Fallout	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:14:00 - [1] With Tyrannis, new changes and additions are coming to the API. CCP Stillman details these improvements in his new, and first ever, dev blog. Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Cailais Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:24:00 - [2] Interesting. Hope some app devs out there make some use of these tools. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Sophie Daigneau CAPITAL Assistance in Destruction Society	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:26:00 - [3] I quickly noticed the section about contracts and jumped out of my chair and ran around the house cheering for 5 minutes. Then I sat back down and saw what it really said.
Usul Atreides	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:27:00 - [4] Excellent! Eve's community-made tools really are very good. Any enhancements to the API can only make them better. :)
T'Amber www.shipsofeve.com	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:45:00 - [5] /me looks for around for chribba then ducks out of site. -T'amber POLITICS:SIMULATORÖ
Qoi New Eden Warriors	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:48:00 - [6] The Calendar API is pretty nice, the rest is not very interesting. Most important thing is probably that they finally fixed the WalletJournal API Now give us Contracts and Mail API please!
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:48:00 - [7] Thanks, appreciated. One thing that immediately strikes me as missing is is /corp/UpcomingCalendarEvents.xml.aspx, would be something to use for a corp website if the calendar was going to be used. On <combaSettings> I would have thought you could have added <useStandingsFrom ...> as an additional child rather than a parent in order to not break compatibility with existing tools, but I'm not particularly fussed about it, just noting it. Missing are the APIs that provide the information on the EVEGate website it will get crawled for (current corp, employment history, possibly corp memberlists).
Ix Forres Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Ix Forres on 17/05/2010 15:54:13 So, any chance that along with these APIs we'll get any of the changes or actual useful API methods we developers have been asking for for years? Contacts are fairly useless without anything to do with them. They'll have some application in very specific use cases, but generally won't be that much use. Calendar methods are of course useful if uptake of the calendar ingame is good. We'll see some out-of-game integration with formats like CalDAV/iCal very soon, I'm sure (mainly because I plan to write one into EVE Metrics as soon as this API is made available to complement our EVEmail RSS and soon to come our EVEmail -> SMTP relay). On the topic of EVE mail, what is CCP's official stance on EVE Gate sc ra pers (bloody spam filter) and automation tools given that you are powerless to stop them? I say the latter merely as a statement of fact: If you consider them a problem, they're not going to go away any time soon. If you don't mind them, at least let EVE Gate authenticate users via HTTP BASIC or another method (OAuth2 for example) instead of forcing us back to the dark ages of sharing usernames and passwords. You will only annoy your users and severely negatively impact their security by encouraging them to share their logins with external sites and applications. Quote: The ContactNotification.xml.aspx call fetches all unread contact notifications from your evemail. So once you read a notification in-game or on EVE Gate, it will disappear from the API. Edit: Oops, misread this. My original point is invalid, but: How about keeping this consistent? With EVE mails we get an unread flag and can still see EVE mails; a consistent system to show old but read notifications with an indicator for read/unread would be more appropriate, one might think. With Tyrannis, I was somewhat expecting planetary interaction to make some sort of appearance. It would appear that this particular topic will be left to the domain of cache readers and logserver parsers in some form, giving individuals and corporations with technical know-how yet another advantage against the userbase at large. And one last note: While I am not trying to besmirch the APIs we have been given thus far and this new set of APIs, or your work in any way, I think I speak for all us third party developers when I say that we'd love to see some evidence you've actually listened to what we've asked for. If there are technical reasons why requests we've made cannot be fulfilled, or political reasons, please tell us. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer EVE Metrics \| accVIEW \| I Tweet
PyjamaSam Minmatar Vanguard Frontiers Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2010.05.17 15:52:00 - [9] I echo what Ix said. Would love some more transparency on the thoughts behind the features release (and more specifically the ones not released that have been requested). chris.
Arous Drephius	Posted - 2010.05.17 16:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Ix Forres I think I speak for all us third party developers when I say that we'd love to see some evidence you've actually listened to what we've asked for. If there are technical reasons why requests we've made cannot be fulfilled, or political reasons, please tell us. This.
Wollari The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.17 16:09:00 - [11] Sadly you only released private/personal APIs. Which have no use for me atm. I would like to see more love for public apis. What about: System Indexes, Wars, Sovereignty Structures etc. I know that Starbases and Outpost APIs are important for Corp Management Tools and i'm all up for them, but people like me (DOTLAN EveMaps) who take only usage of the public API's won't be happy. I know you all fear that something could happen like with the dominion start, but I really would like to get in contact or an a discussion like the roundtable we had on the last fanfest and put in our experience and discuss future improvements and/or additions. I think you get a lot more feedback if you would ask the 3rd party devs: We would like to introduce these XYZ changes, what do you think about them? Useful? Concerns? rather then 'That's IT' and after the release revoke everything again. If I would need to sign a NDA to get in talk/touch/discussion with you guys, I would do it and a couple other devs too, I suppose. Get the discussion started with the devs and try to find out what people are really need. APIs for new features are always nice, but giving love to old features (contracts?) or APIs (sovereigntySystems) would be nice too. My last blog about my Wish List http://evemaps.dotlan.net/blog/2009/12/31/wishlist-for-2010/
Haskell Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.17 16:18:00 - [12] Originally by: Ix Forres I think I speak for all us third party developers when I say that we'd love to see some evidence you've actually listened to what we've asked for. If there are technical reasons why requests we've made cannot be fulfilled, or political reasons, please tell us. This.
Wollari The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.17 16:22:00 - [13] Originally by: Ix Forres Calendar methods are of course useful if uptake of the calendar ingame is good. We'll see some out-of-game integration with formats like CalDAV/iCal very soon, I'm sure (mainly because I plan to write one into EVE Metrics as soon as this API is made available to complement our EVEmail RSS and soon to come our EVEmail -> SMTP relay). On the topic of EVE mail, what is CCP's official stance on EVE Gate sc ra pers (bloody spam filter) and automation tools given that you are powerless to stop them? I say the latter merely as a statement of fact: If you consider them a problem, they're not going to go away any time soon. If you don't mind them, at least let EVE Gate authenticate users via HTTP BASIC or another method (OAuth2 for example) instead of forcing us back to the dark ages of sharing usernames and passwords. You will only annoy your users and severely negatively impact their security by encouraging them to share their logins with external sites and applications. Thanks Ix for the things i've forgotten on the last fanfest. I really would like to see such services like OAuth/OpenID whatever, so people could login via the eve secured pages or at least a method where we can verify the truth of some bloody HTTP Headers from the ingame browsers. I'm really thinking about integrating user services, etc on my page but I'm unsure if i should create yet another registration with email validation, or with ingame authentication (via 1 isk transfer) or yet another usage of the API to verify the user. That's something i'm really considering but it's more a concept question then anything lese if you wanna do something game related and not just another forum with fake accounts. Well and about the Calender .... yes XML API is useful for corporation tools and perhabs client tools like EveMon, etc. But if you really wanna adress the usage of them, create a CALDAV/RSS interface for your services so people can integrate the stuff into their regular life. Mobile phones, fat clients, google calender, etc. Do it like google. User can retreive and reset their private URL to the calander via EveGate webinterface and you're ready to go. No magic. RSS Feeds for EveGate Status Updates and Evemails are usefull aswell cause people can integrate those into their clients (or google reader, feedereader, etc) aswell. Those are common industry standards. Even Twitter is offering RSS Feeds for their stuff. If you would like to play with the big boys on the social web, you've to be open! Use Open Standards for User related stuff (Status, Evemails, Calendar) and XML APIs for ingame related stuff.
Wollari The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.17 16:36:00 - [14] Originally by: Haskell Originally by: Ix Forres I think I speak for all us third party developers when I say that we'd love to see some evidence you've actually listened to what we've asked for. If there are technical reasons why requests we've made cannot be fulfilled, or political reasons, please tell us. This.
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.05.17 16:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Ix Forres On the topic of EVE mail, what is CCP's official stance on EVE Gate sc ra pers (bloody spam filter) and automation tools given that you are powerless to stop them? I trolled them into this statement in another thread: Originally by: CCP Karuck Crawling EVE Gate is forbidden as part of our soon to be updated Terms of Service, and can be a basis for an account ban. Remember that everything you do on EVE Gate you do logged in as your account. You should be using the API when writing your tools, and if there is functionality on EVE Gate that is not on the API then that's something we will consider adding. I'm not sure what you are asking about HTTP BASIC unless it's a jibe at the IGB which does not support it (well the UI does not), lol. Agreed on your other points of course, but well...
Ix Forres Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2010.05.17 16:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Catari Taga Originally by: Ix Forres On the topic of EVE mail, what is CCP's official stance on EVE Gate sc ra pers (bloody spam filter) and automation tools given that you are powerless to stop them? I trolled them into this statement in another thread: Originally by: CCP Karuck Crawling EVE Gate is forbidden as part of our soon to be updated Terms of Service, and can be a basis for an account ban. Remember that everything you do on EVE Gate you do logged in as your account. You should be using the API when writing your tools, and if there is functionality on EVE Gate that is not on the API then that's something we will consider adding. I'm not sure what you are asking about HTTP BASIC unless it's a jibe at the IGB which does not support it (well the UI does not), lol. Agreed on your other points of course, but well... The HTTP BASIC thing was just in terms of adding a non-eve-username-and-password (UID/API key as user/pass on BASIC) for logging into EVE Gate programmatically but looks like that's off the cards anyway. Poor explanation on my side in any case. Building a crawler that simulates human behavior isn't exactly complicated, and I fail to see how CCP plans to catch people, but hey, I'm sure CCP knows what they're doing. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer EVE Metrics \| accVIEW \| I Tweet

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2010.05.17 17:04:00 - [17] Whee Secure 3rd party service \| my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

OwlManAtt Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.05.17 17:04:00 - [18] While you're adding new API methods, could you please, please, please add one for listing personal/corp blueprints with their ME/PE? Like the tabs from the industry window? --- Owl

CCP Karuck	Posted - 2010.05.17 17:12:00 - [19] Edited by: CCP Karuck on 17/05/2010 17:14:40 Originally by: Ix Forres On the topic of EVE mail, what is CCP's official stance on EVE Gate sc ra pers (bloody spam filter) and automation tools given that you are powerless to stop them? I say the latter merely as a statement of fact: If you consider them a problem, they're not going to go away any time soon. If you don't mind them, at least let EVE Gate authenticate users via HTTP BASIC or another method (OAuth2 for example) instead of forcing us back to the dark ages of sharing usernames and passwords. You will only annoy your users and severely negatively impact their security by encouraging them to share their logins with external sites and applications. Crawling EVE Gate is forbidden as part of our soon to be updated Terms of Service, and can be a basis for an account ban. Remember that everything you do on EVE Gate you do logged in as your account. You should be using the API when writing your tools, and if there is functionality on EVE Gate that is not on the API then that's something you should ask us to consider adding. Update: Sorry, I must have missed the reply above where some of you already pointed this out ;)

Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.05.17 17:30:00 - [20] Edited by: Catari Taga on 17/05/2010 17:32:19 Originally by: Ix Forres The HTTP BASIC thing was just in terms of adding a non-eve-username-and-password (UID/API key as user/pass on BASIC) for logging into EVE Gate programmatically but looks like that's off the cards anyway. Poor explanation on my side in any case. Building a crawler that simulates human behavior isn't exactly complicated, and I fail to see how CCP plans to catch people, but hey, I'm sure CCP knows what they're doing. No, the logon is pretty trivial, in addition to the user/pass you also need to set the default character and then you are free to grab whatever info you want, which is conveniently provided in direct access links (shame you can't go by characterID though, you need to go by name). "Catching" spiders can be done just by the number of profiles accessed I suppose, but I have an on-demand corp membership and employment history pull integrated into some other tools of mine and that should be pretty much indistinguishable from normal behaviour (might have to reevaluate them after the announced terms of service change maybe). For crawling the site large scale someone so inclined would use trials from another IP anyway. edit for CCP Karuck: Obviously we would prefer to use an API for this if it was available.
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.05.17 17:34:00 - [21] Nice to see the change for POS standings. Much appreciated. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Arkady Sadik Minmatar Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.05.17 17:36:00 - [22] Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 17/05/2010 17:36:25 It used to be the case that you could drag and drop people from showinfo: links in the old IGB into peoples & places. This allowed an easy management of shared target lists. Say, current war targets. The new IGB does not allow drag&drop, nor is there a javascript method to add "buddies". This makes adding such targets much more tedious. EVE Gate seems not to allow sharing watch lists (and until the tags feature is added, managing them will be a horrendeous task). Are there any plans to allow some kind of shared watch lists? A javascript method in the IGB to add a contact (with tags, once those are implemented!) would probably be best. Edit: I just realized the above is only marginally API related :-D To be a bit on-topic: Will the old standings API continue to work, or is it fully replaced with this?
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.05.17 18:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Arkady Sadik Will the old standings API continue to work, or is it fully replaced with this? Will continue to work because standings towards you are not going to be in the contacts API.
Ariane VoxDei	Posted - 2010.05.17 18:26:00 - [24] RED FLAG! Quote: The Contacts API will require only a limited key, and consists of one character-specific request and one request which work for both characters and corporations: * /corp/ContactList.xml.aspx o corporateContactList + contactID, contactName, standing o allianceContactList + contactID, contactName, standing * /char/ContactList.xml.aspx o contactID, contactName, inWatchList, standing * /char/ContactNotifications.xml.aspx o notificationID, senderID, senderName, sentDate, messageData As if the "blue=share it" problem was not enough, now this gets piled on. What are you trying to do? Really, what are you trying to do? This looks like you are trying to kill the use of the limited API outside of your very own personal use of it. Do you have any idea how many have trusted their limited api to others (and to various useful sites), relying on it, knowing exactly how much/little got exposed until now? And have you had a guess at how many of those will actually notice something like this, unlike forum 'activists' like us? Or more to the point what percentage will remain unaware of how exposed they have suddenly become -- before it is too late? Yes, it is true that you can generate a new api key to invalidate the current one, but that is only useful to those in the know that they realy really really might want to. Once again, what we have here is another opt-out for who are ahead of most and everyone else is roadkill. You are potentially making so much bad blood that it defies belief that it is actually planned as limited api-key. So it put it to you again, what are you trying to do? Really. You can't have something like that on something as used/compromised as your limited api-key. The privacy violation potential is astounding. It will either kill the practical value of the limited api-key - as in no sharing with anyone. Or it will lead to a complete abandonment of contactlists and ingame mail - why use those if it leaves you completely exposed to FOE and friend alike.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.17 18:45:00 - [25] I strongly approve of this new tweeting of dev blogs. Keep up the good work on that front - even if I have nothing really to say about this particular topic. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.05.17 18:54:00 - [26] Originally by: Ariane VoxDei Or it will lead to a complete abandonment of contactlists and ingame mail - why use those if it leaves you completely exposed to FOE and friend alike. It's been obvious since the start of evegate that you cannot use the contacts list any more if you are worried about security (or can't live without folders) so why cry now in this thread? Everbody with +10 standings will be able to see your contacts list anyway so CCP allowing people holding your limited API - i.e. holding a higher level of access - to see it too only makes sense in that context. For see same reason you will not be getting EVEgate opt in because noone would actually opt in if they had the choice. Accept the new reality and deal with it. CCP wants this.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux	Posted - 2010.05.17 18:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Catari Taga Originally by: Ariane VoxDei Or it will lead to a complete abandonment of contactlists and ingame mail - why use those if it leaves you completely exposed to FOE and friend alike. It's been obvious since the start of evegate that you cannot use the contacts list any more if you are worried about security (or can't live without folders) so why cry now in this thread? Everbody with +10 standings will be able to see your contacts list anyway so CCP allowing people holding your limited API - i.e. holding a higher level of access - to see it too only makes sense in that context. For the same reason you will not be getting EVEgate opt in because noone would actually opt in if they had the choice. Accept the new reality and deal with it. CCP wants this to happen. Solution: don't set people to +10 that aren't your alts. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.05.17 20:46:00 - [28] IMHO the contact list should really require the full API key. corps trying to recruit me dont have to care about all my contacts.
Cinori Aluben Minmatar Gladiators of Rage	Posted - 2010.05.17 21:14:00 - [29] API improvements always good, thanks for the info. But I mimic the response of above API developers, would be good to have some feedback on their feedback. Cinori Aluben CSM5 2010 Fix the Little Things First! www.littlethingsfirst.com --- Cinori Aluben -- CSM 2010!! "Fix the Little Things First!" http://www.littlethingsfirst.com
mkmin	Posted - 2010.05.17 21:56:00 - [30] Quote: The Contacts API will require only a limited key Um... why? you CCP people are seriously giving a big 'screw you' to all our privacy concerns. Well, based on the way you're treating our privacy concerns you obviously consider people to be even less valuable than assets, so it should be no surprise you'd make valuable assets require the full, but the worthless people can be as freely available as possible. I mean why not make everyone's contacts require no API at all? Oh wait you did that for everyone in EVE with fail-spacebook on accident and didn't even bother apologizing about, or even admitting it. I could think of dozens of reasons why I wouldn't want my contacts on my limited API and not a single reason why I would.

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