| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
   |
Posted - 2010.05.17 20:48:00 -
[1]
Is a lie. War propaganda and nothing more. Look it up, True program was intended as a solution to release citizens from the dangers of hard labour and military service.
Nation had an untold number of thinkers and creators of all creeds as citizenry.
True slaves we have all dealt with on missions from the empires are not definitive of Nation. Judging Nations philosophy by looking only at the true slaves and lies of the empire factions is no different than judging the Minmatar by only looking at the Du'uma Fiisi actions and Amarr propaganda.
Where did those thinkers go, why can we not see or hear their voice now? Empire factions clearly did not go after the war machine of Nation as we have all witnessed.
They went for the citizens, the thinkers and creators, the civilians in what can only be called pure and blatant genocide. All citizens, every single one of them, targeted by the empire factions for annihilation. Not a planet, a system or even a constellation of them.
Regions. Regions of civilians.
Crime unparalleled by any other.
When judging the current happenings you might want contemplate this.
Charon.
|
Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
New Eden Research
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 21:46:00 -
[2]
Does one crime justify another, particularly against people who had nothing to do with the first?
|
Faolan Fortune
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 22:12:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Casiella Truza
Does one crime justify another, particularly against people who had nothing to do with the first?
It would be a crime to let these people suffer at the hands of the four empires and their future Capsuleer overseers.
Sansha's Nation has gave them a choice, they submitted without hesitation.
They now have a purpose they could only dream of.
|
Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 22:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Casiella Truza
Does one crime justify another, particularly against people who had nothing to do with the first?
They did not?
I would question the statements you made.
1. They had nothing to do with the first Crime?
Are they Citizens of a faction?
2. Another Crime.
Is punishment for a crime committed, itself a crime?
Answer these for yourself and my answer should be clear.
Charon |
mgc1
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 23:13:00 -
[5]
punishing the innocent is not punishment, it is crime..
if sansha had wanted justice, they should have gone after those responsible..
once again the innocent pay for the actions of politicians..
even sansha must understand vindictive actions like these will not sit well with any individual not completely devoid of a sense of justice?
|
Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 23:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: mgc1
punishing the innocent is not punishment, it is crime..
if sansha had wanted justice, they should have gone after those responsible..
once again the innocent pay for the actions of politicians..
even sansha must understand vindictive actions like these will not sit well with any individual not completely devoid of a sense of justice?
Indeed.
So how would you suggest Nation pursue justice against the empire factions?
Ask nicely for an apology?
Charon
|
mgc1
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 23:45:00 -
[7]
even asking for an apology would be hollow as those asked have nothing to apologize for..
there is only 1 honorable solution imo:
nation must accept it has been violated and that justice cant be done in this case..
revenge and / or attempting to "uplift" the innocent will surely result in nations destruction..
|
Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
|
Posted - 2010.05.17 23:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: mgc1
even asking for an apology would be hollow as those asked have nothing to apologize for..
there is only 1 honorable solution imo:
nation must accept it has been violated and that justice cant be done in this case..
revenge and / or attempting to "uplift" the innocent will surely result in nations destruction..
I will quote this for posterity.
I am certain someone will have a better suggestion than "those asked have nothing to apologize for.."
Revenge and Justice are two different beasts.
mgc1, I doubt continued discussion with you will prove fruitful.
Charon |
Ruby Amatucci
Tomorrowland Orphanage
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 00:07:00 -
[9]
Chell is right. The Nation used to be a beautiful place, full of art and music and literature and really smart people. My own Community was able to rescue lots and lots of it into the shelters along with ourselves. Huge halls of it. I grew up down there, and I've seen all the art and heard all the music and watched all the holos. You won't believe how beautiful the Nation was before they came and destroyed everything.
And really, why would Master Kuvakei turn everyone into Auxiliary Citizens? It makes no sense. You can't build a Nation just out of sailors and janitors - you need real people, too.
|
mgc1
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 00:24:00 -
[10]
well, its true.. i didnt kill any sansha civies and thus cant apologize for it..
do i feel guilty about what happened before i was around?
i dont think so..
do i want it to happen again?
crawl back into the hole u came from, return all uve taken sofar and i might reconsider..
we will not wait till punishment becomes crime..
revenge..
wouldnt revenging the death of countless with the death of countless reduce the "superior" to the level of its victors?
|
Nightvault
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 02:17:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nightvault on 18/05/2010 02:19:41
.
|
Taurin Letonil
Amarr
PURE.
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 02:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ruby Amatucci
Chell is right. The Nation used to be a beautiful place, full of art and music and literature and really smart people. My own Community was able to rescue lots and lots of it into the shelters along with ourselves. Huge halls of it. I grew up down there, and I've seen all the art and heard all the music and watched all the holos. You won't believe how beautiful the Nation was before they came and destroyed everything.
Yes the Nation was such a beautiful place ruined by war brought on by the four empires Is it not them responsible for this? Had we done anything to bring this about besides our glorious research into the science of liberation. All the art that was lost, perhaps we can restore the nation to its former glory.
we are recruiting |
mgc1
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 14:22:00 -
[13]
""Is it not them responsible for this?""
to answer this question u must ask yourself what makes an empire..
is an empire to be judged by the actions of its current inhabitants or should the sins of the father be revenged on the son?
|
Anami Casserina
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 21:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: mgc1
""Is it not them responsible for this?""
to answer this question u must ask yourself what makes an empire..
is an empire to be judged by the actions of its current inhabitants or should the sins of the father be revenged on the son?
Does the son pay for his fathers funeral? And who's to say that the current inhabitants are some of those who attacked the nation? I lived in the nation myself before the war at the beginning of which i fled to delve as my parents were slaughtered as they were some of the thinkers that where so vehemently attacked the empires. |
Syn Callibri
Minmatar
Blacklight Incorporated
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 21:27:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 18/05/2010 21:27:55
(the views expressed may not reflect those of Blacklight Inc.) |
mgc1
|
Posted - 2010.05.18 23:17:00 -
[16]
""my parents were slaughtered""
if my parents slaughtered your parents, u should talk to my parents..
revenge is only possible on those directly responsible imo..
if my innocent parents were to be slaughtered by u, my drones will contact u..
|
Koro Sarum
Amarr
Reliables Inc
Majesta Empire
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 02:49:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Koro Sarum on 19/05/2010 02:49:56
-I am by far the most annoying person ive ever met
-if you though sparta was madness, obviously you haven't met me |
Anami Casserina
|
Posted - 2010.05.19 03:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: mgc1
""my parents were slaughtered""
if my parents slaughtered your parents, u should talk to my parents..
revenge is only possible on those directly responsible imo..
if my innocent parents were to be slaughtered by u, my drones will contact u..
I believe you missed most of what I said, do you by chance have selective hearing and reading?
Also your grammar is worse than that of a dysfunctional True Slave.
|
Hellz Hitman
|
Posted - 2010.05.21 12:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: mgc1
""my parents were slaughtered""
if my parents slaughtered your parents, u should talk to my parents..
revenge is only possible on those directly responsible imo..
if my innocent parents were to be slaughtered by u, my drones will contact u..
But should the Son defend the crimes of the Parents. Should not the Son be punished as well?
|
Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
New Eden Research
|
Posted - 2010.05.21 15:33:00 -
[20]
Originally by: mgc1
""my parents were slaughtered""
if my parents slaughtered your parents, u should talk to my parents..
revenge is only possible on those directly responsible imo..
if my innocent parents were to be slaughtered by u, my drones will contact u..
Either your translation routines have some serious bugs or I don't understand how you graduated.
|
Syn Callibri
Minmatar
Blacklight Incorporated
|
Posted - 2010.05.21 18:23:00 -
[21]
I keep seeing claims of..."They killed the thinkers, etc..." Well then, tell me when it happened. Prove to me how 4 empires that were at war with each other...suddenly decided, "Hey...lets got kill innocent people!"
I can use your retoric to fertilize my plants.
(comments expressed here may not reflect those of Blacklight Inc.) |
Shikobo Nonu
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.05.21 22:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Syn Callibri
I keep seeing claims of..."They killed the thinkers, etc..." Well then, tell me when it happened. Prove to me how 4 empires that were at war with each other...suddenly decided, "Hey...lets got kill innocent people!"
I can use your retoric to fertilize my plants.
Oh, this should be good. Hold on...
**Shik disappears, then returns with a big bowl of popcorn**
Right, carry on. I, too, would like to hear more about this genocide. As I understand it, the last field trip the empires took into Nation space was led by the Gallente. I hear they're big on supression of free speech and killing innocent people. 
Popcorn, anyone? There's plenty.
|
Fridarey
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2010.05.21 22:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Syn Callibri
I keep seeing claims of..."They killed the thinkers, etc..." Well then, tell me when it happened. Prove to me how 4 empires that were at war with each other...suddenly decided, "Hey...lets got kill innocent people!" I can use your retoric to fertilize my plants.
The truth of it Syn Callibri is that the Nation wasn't doing anything that Amarrian Empire wasn't already doing - just being a little more successful in developing a Slave economy. Wait (I hear you exclaim in horror!) "What about the mind control implants? The brain-washing? The insane dicator believing himself possessed of supreme right to rule and decide how his people should live?"
The Nation was the brainchild of a Caldari businessman backed by Amarrian money and granted Matari slaves for the express purpose of developing new and improved slaving techniques. There was no moral outrage on the part of the Amarrian and Caldari states in their attack on Sansha holdings simply a desire to maintain their own positions in the pecking order of imperial hierarchy.
Sansha's "mistake" was to be grow too quickly, become too powerful, and to be too open about the profoundly atheist methodology of slavery he employed rather than cloaking it in mystical mumbo-jumbo and claiming the true-slaves were being enlightened.
To my eyes there is no way a person can take a credible position against Sansha's Nation without declaring equal and full opposition to the Amarrian Empire. They are two sides of the side coin, one religious, one atheist, but both slave economies programmed to support a power elite with all the privilege and potential such an arrangement typically delivers.
And to a degree the op is right here. The thinkers and dreamers of the Nation were targeted by Empires because they were the facilities most vulnerable and open to attack. Anything "good" or "creative" that could flow from the Nation's evil hierarchy and corrupt nature was terminated with extreme prejudice leaving the autonomous biological defense zombies to continue replacing and rebuilding their own number.
I imagine this would happen similarly with a future war on the Amarrian Empire if the religious Amarrians were massacred entirely and only the brainwashed vitoc and glaive-enslaved Matar slave solders survived and were ordered to continue slaving to replace their numbers.
Its always important to know your history though Syn Callibri. Otherwise we might be doomed to learn nothing from it.
|
Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
|
Posted - 2010.05.22 09:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Fridarey
Originally by: Syn Callibri
I keep seeing claims of..."They killed the thinkers, etc..." Well then, tell me when it happened. Prove to me how 4 empires that were at war with each other...suddenly decided, "Hey...lets got kill innocent people!" I can use your retoric to fertilize my plants.
The truth of it Syn Callibri is that the Nation wasn't doing anything that Amarrian Empire wasn't already doing - just being a little more successful in developing a Slave economy. Wait (I hear you exclaim in horror!) "What about the mind control implants? The brain-washing? The insane dicator believing himself possessed of supreme right to rule and decide how his people should live?"
The Nation was the brainchild of a Caldari businessman backed by Amarrian money and granted Matari slaves for the express purpose of developing new and improved slaving techniques. There was no moral outrage on the part of the Amarrian and Caldari states in their attack on Sansha holdings simply a desire to maintain their own positions in the pecking order of imperial hierarchy.
Sansha's "mistake" was to be grow too quickly, become too powerful, and to be too open about the profoundly atheist methodology of slavery he employed rather than cloaking it in mystical mumbo-jumbo and claiming the true-slaves were being enlightened.
To my eyes there is no way a person can take a credible position against Sansha's Nation without declaring equal and full opposition to the Amarrian Empire. They are two sides of the side coin, one religious, one atheist, but both slave economies programmed to support a power elite with all the privilege and potential such an arrangement typically delivers.
And to a degree the op is right here. The thinkers and dreamers of the Nation were targeted by Empires because they were the facilities most vulnerable and open to attack. Anything "good" or "creative" that could flow from the Nation's evil hierarchy and corrupt nature was terminated with extreme prejudice leaving the autonomous biological defense zombies to continue replacing and rebuilding their own number.
I imagine this would happen similarly with a future war on the Amarrian Empire if the religious Amarrians were massacred entirely and only the brainwashed vitoc and glaive-enslaved Matar slave solders survived and were ordered to continue slaving to replace their numbers.
Its always important to know your history though Syn Callibri. Otherwise we might be doomed to learn nothing from it.
Closer.
I might like to see comparisons to others beyond the Amarr from you. |
Graanvlokkie
Interspacial Specialists
|
Posted - 2010.05.22 11:26:00 -
[25]
Sansha's vision must never be lost. Sansha's dream is to build a a new Paradise where every citizen (True Citizen) is free to pursue their dreams.
True Slaves are not the end result. True Slaves were created to free other more worthy people to pursue peaceful and productive lives. True Slaves are a means though which the True Citizens are freed to pursue their lives and dreams.
True Citizens are free to live and conduct their lives as they see fit. They are not mindless slaves and have their free will intact. True Slaves are slaves, and nothing more. A tool used to build and protect the Utopian world build by Master.
Show Master that you are worthy of Citizenship, if not the life of a True Slave awaits.
____________________________
Interspacial Specialists Manifesto |
Shikobo Nonu
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.05.22 14:52:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Graanvlokkie
Sansha's vision must never be lost. Sansha's dream is to build a a new Paradise where every citizen (True Citizen) is free to pursue their dreams.
True Slaves are not the end result. True Slaves were created to free other more worthy people to pursue peaceful and productive lives. True Slaves are a means though which the True Citizens are freed to pursue their lives and dreams.
True Citizens are free to live and conduct their lives as they see fit. They are not mindless slaves and have their free will intact. True Slaves are slaves, and nothing more. A tool used to build and protect the Utopian world build by Master.
Show Master that you are worthy of Citizenship, if not the life of a True Slave awaits.
It was already established that they bear a great resemblance to the Amarr empire, no need to point it out again.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |