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[Star Fraction] Concerning Capsuleers and Sansha's Nation

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Slyckback	Posted - 2010.05.18 19:33:00 - [31] Originally by: The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction does not form its views about people, or the organisations they belong to, on the basis of the personal relationships of individuals with other individuals. That kind of thing can be left to religious and social authoritarians. Indeed, if you see someone trying to draw conclusions as to the political and ethical positions of an individual, or their comrades, on the basis of who that individual happens to love then you can be sure that you are seeing an authoritarian mindset at work. If this is true, why is Revan, a known slave-holder and promoter of slavery, as well as a willing confederate to this Sansha threat, set blue to Star Fraction? Logically, then, it must be because Star Fraction holds that her policies and actions are in line with their thinking so much as to justify publically and officially naming her an ally? So please, for the sake of all of the capsuleer audience, tell us on what grounds Revan was made blue to Star Fraction, if not solely based on one personal relationship?
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 19:40:00 - [32] Revan Neferis as an individual has not been set blue. Which is the true logical concomitant of what has been said. The organisation of which she is a member has had its standings set in the normal way. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.05.18 19:41:00 - [33] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Non-co-operation with enemies seems to be the preference of those committed to authoritarian statism and imperialist domination. Various of the militia forces have been seen shooting at their foes while those foes were in the midst of counter-Nation struggles. We have seen the Imperial Navy order its militia allies to attack Minmatar fighters who, only moments before, had been fighting against Nation forces in defence of a planet within the purview of the Amarr Empire. So it isn't a surprise to see non-co-operation with enemies preached by those who are imperialist or nationalist paramilitaries of one kind or another. How would you then classify your CEO's threat after I stated my willingness to cooperate with Fraction forces on this issue? What was its purpose? Is the Star Fraction willing to co-operate with me (their stated enemy) in the face of the Sansha threat or not? I've repeated your CEO's statement below for clarity: Originally by: The Cosmopolite You remain a -10 target of the Star Fraction and will be engaged whenever it is practical for us to do so. Is Ms. Constantine going to to practice what you preach for once? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 19:56:00 - [34] I am not sure what you think I am preaching but I am fairly sure you have it wrong. As usual. There are limits to co-operation. It is clear that some recognise them and will act on them, while others are deluding themselves that there are no limits to co-operation and indeed ignoring the evidence of the limits that exist. What I should point out is that I haven't preached against non-co-operation with enemies. Neither have I preached against co-operation with enemies. I simply point out that there are limits to co-operation and people have to recognise them or they will surely get a very nasty shock. This is what happened when the Imperial Navy ordered its crusader allies to fire on those Minmatar fighters who had struggled alongside them to defeat the Sansha's Nation foe. A limit on co-operation had been unilaterally set and the Imperial Navy acted on it. I don't condemn the Imperial Navy for this because it was non-co-operation with enemies. I condemn it because it was basest treachery. In the passage you quote, I am pointing out that the imperialists and statists, the authoritarians in summary, are quite clear that they have limits on co-operation with enemies and they will act to maintain those limits. Hence, the lack of co-operation with us on display from some. That lack isn't a great surprise. The reasoning behind it, however, can still be held up as tawdry and cheap. For us, the limits of co-operation with foes are fairly simple, and indeed, it is not as if we are strangers to co-operation with foes against more immediate or greater threats. If co-operation is the practical thing to do, we'll engage in it on a case-by-case basis typically with a mutually agreed truce. If in the struggle against this threat it is impractical to terminate your miserable existence as a self-loathing hypocrite, then we won't. If it is practical to do so, we will. I think this is clear and not really something that can be obfuscated without recourse to the most extraordinary contortions of language and meaning. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Slyckback	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:02:00 - [35] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Revan Neferis as an individual has not been set blue. Which is the true logical concomitant of what has been said. The organisation of which she is a member has had its standings set in the normal way. The Cosmopolite Then, just to clarify, Star Fraction pilots are cleared to open fire upon Captain Neferis, since she is part of a corporation that is a known slaving organization and a hopeful ally of the Sansha menance, and as such duly marked red under SF's policies?
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:10:00 - [36] You are not attempting to clarify anything. Rather you are trying to confuse the issues. I repeat that we set standings on an organisational basis and for reasons pertaining to the policies and actions of organisations and those acting in their name. Revan Neferis will not be shot at by Star Fraction pilots for the simple plain reason that the alliance of which she is a member is not hostile to the Star Fraction. I will not be responding to questions concerning this point, which in any event are designed to mislead and distract from the topic at hand, any further. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
DJ Obsidian New Eden Technical Institutes	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Koronakesh And here I thought the whole announcement was about how we were NOT joining anyone's bandwagon and are going to be fighting Nation OUR OWN way. Is this why? Originally by: Stitcher Although I cannot deny the aid or usefulness of Star Fraction in this matter, the fact is that you have repeatedly shown yourselves to be enemies of the State I love, and of common human decency, if recent events are any indicator. I am therefore forced to deny the Star Fraction's request to receive this information. I do not feel you can be trusted with it.
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:16:00 - [38] Originally by: The Cosmopolite What I should point out is that I haven't preached against non-co-operation with enemies. Neither have I preached against co-operation with enemies. You've preached that non-co-operation with enemies is a sign of imperialism and statism. But as I see it, you mean to say that it is only a sign of imperialism and statism if your enemies practice it, but not when Star Fraction practices it. Then non-co-operation is a sign of 'limits of co-operation'. Originally by: The Cosmopolite I don't condemn the Imperial Navy for this because it was non-co-operation with enemies. I condemn it because it was basest treachery. You mean the circumstances of the non-co-operation ending were suspect. A 24-hours notice would have removed the objection? I'm sure the Imperial Navy ordered its pilots to open fire as soon 'as it was practical' to quote your CEO. What are you trying to tell us? That your CEO is a treacherous imperialist? Originally by: The Cosmopolite If in the struggle against this threat it is impractical to terminate your miserable existence as a self-loathing hypocrite, then we won't. If it is practical to do so, we will. As I said, I was offering not to try and terminate Star Fraction pilots even in cases it is practical for me to do so. Your CEO refused. Hence no more words please about non-co-operation being a sign of Imperialism or other such nonsense. Just get out there and shoot the Sansha ships would you? If defending against this Sansha threat means I must sacrifice my vessel to opportunist Star Fraction pilots trying to terminate me as soon as they think 'it is practical', then I am willing to accept that as the price I must pay. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Saul Dhampir Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:22:00 - [39] Edited by: Saul Dhampir on 18/05/2010 20:22:49 Oh look, an announcement from the Star Fraction about fighting the Nation, has been turned into another discussion about Star Fraction politics, by third parties. Well gosh. Lets face it. Your lives would be dull without us.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:22:00 - [40] That particular example of someone setting a limit to co-operation is actually among the more honest and respectable. A simple political judgement based on politics. While I think it is foolish, particularly in its particular context, I can respect the thinking. Others have resorted to cheap, slanderous and frankly bizarre reasoning. However, the lack of co-operation from some, for whatever reason, is not the reason for our position. We will co-operate with anyone who wishes to do so but we will not be a party to ridiculous efforts in some quarters to control and regulate the response to the Sansha's Nation threat, not to mention the response to other threats present in this affair. The absurd centralizing tendency has already resulted in disasters during this struggle. We say independence of thought and action is essential, indeed must be paramount in the fight against the present threat. I may not agree with everything some people say or do but I am content for independent action to be taken by anyone in this matter. Indeed, I urge it. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: The Cosmopolite What I should point out is that I haven't preached against non-co-operation with enemies. Neither have I preached against co-operation with enemies. You've preached that non-co-operation with enemies is a sign of imperialism and statism. I have said nothing of the kind. Unlike you, I pick and use my words with care. The rest of your remarks and questions are equally replete with distortion and humbug. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:31:00 - [42] Originally by: Saul Dhampir Well gosh. Lets face it. Your lives would be dull without us. I'll take my share on that compliment free captain. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Watch Neferis Resort VII: Auctoramentum Gladiatorum
DJ Obsidian New Eden Technical Institutes	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:54:00 - [43] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Havohej If you're going to call -SF- out on dishonesty and hypocrisy, use one of the many, many actual true examples. I'm pretty sure there are not any true examples. Certainly nobody has ever made a credible claim on galnet. What's this? Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Sophie Starsparrow So, according to Jade who posted that conversation, he did actually make the statement you wanted him to, and he did so in public. No he didn't and I'll thank you not to post "according to jade" in a dishonest fashion. Oh, was this not you? Originally by: Jade Constantine Edited by: Jade Constantine on 06/05/2010 18:26:32 [ 2010.05.05 20:32:58 ] John Revenent > We are not slavers. Originally by: Jade Constantine [ 2010.05.05 20:33:27 ] The Cosmopolite > You happily worked with and supported the vile slaver regime of the CVA. [ 2010.05.05 20:33:51 ] The Cosmopolite > You are an apologist for and supporter of slavery. [ 2010.05.05 20:33:52 ] John Revenent > We do so no more, I suggest you work on your intel [/quote
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:05:00 - [44] It's evidently not a true example. Even there, Revenent makes no clear statement. With the full context (deliberately omitted) he repeatedly refuses to clarify its meaning. No lie by Jade Constantine there. That issue has been ventilated exhaustively elsewhere and it is very definitely not a topic for this thread. I'd also add that if some people think they can use stand-ins to avoid the consequences of their actions they had best think again. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:13:00 - [45] Edited by: The Cosmopolite on 18/05/2010 21:15:01 Returning to the topic: the issue of co-operation with enemies and the limits of such co-operation is one where it is plain that one can only proceed with confidence with those that have agreed to such co-operation and can be trusted to keep their word. Certainly, no Star Fraction force, having agreed to fight by the side of a foe against a greater threat would then turn and fire on the temporary allies when the fight was done. The parting would take place in good order, so far as we are concerned. Indeed, even without agreement or truce, the preference of the Star Fraction, when faced with a great, mutual threat would be to co-operate with foes against this threat and then depart the scene in good order. Indeed, I would see a deliberate plan to fight with enemies against a greater threat and then to immediately fall on those enemies with the threat's removal as base treachery, truce or no truce. However, we prefer clear truces and stated periods of co-operation so that everyone knows where they are. Without them, the fight often goes badly as parties fear to commit their full force should the other party plan treachery. At least with a truce agreement, should treachery arise it is stark and clear to all who has indulged in blackguardedly behaviour. Obviously, the issue becomes complicated by ad hoc situations, the not uncommon occurrence of 'three-way' fights and other permutations of space combat with multiple entities where there are discordant relations at play. Possibly, what is in Jade Constantine's mind is to openly declare that we shall never consider ourselves to be fighting alongside certain deceitful creatures unless there is a firm agreement. I rather sympathize with that if indeed that is what she intended. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:18:00 - [46] Originally by: Jade Constantine Our reputation has never been better amongst the ranks of those that matter Graelyn, and you are not among them. zzzzz You've been playing the 'you are irrelevant' card against hundreds on IGS for years, basically anyone who doesn't listen to your fits. These things are cute and amusing for only so long before they become tired. Now answer these good people as to why Moonbat Slaver Vampire Lesbian Princess is such a great friend to the Fraction, while Sansha is not. They seem to want to know. -------
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:41:00 - [47] Originally by: Graelyn zzzzz remain like that Graelyn. It's been how relevant you are the past 6 years. Go on with your silly juvenile posts, it's always a pleasure to see you humiliated by your own lack of intelligence and mirror of a life of complete ineptitude and failure, struggling so hard to be remembered of your existence by eating the scraps jade and I throw on the floor for you to lick. And the funny thing is that you lick. Every single time. It's funny to play with you little one. You amuse me to no ends. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Watch Neferis Resort VII: Auctoramentum Gladiatorum
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:14:00 - [48] Was that..your retort? "I make you hate me for fun"? We have all met that awkward kid in school, getting beaten up by bullies while shouting "it don't hurt!" through shattered teeth. It can be odd to some to meet the capsuleer equivalent of such a being. You're not humorous to me. Truly broken individuals are not to be laughed at. -------
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:21:00 - [49] Edited by: Revan Neferis on 18/05/2010 22:23:14 Originally by: Graelyn I make you hate me for fun Oh so you hate me? That's even more hilarious to me. Seeing this post after 6 years is quite hot. I simply delight in love and hate relationships. Nothing else is so thrilling to me as such things. I knew why I liked you since the first moment back 6 years ago. Hate me sweetheart... more. And about the little kid story yes. I understand you feel that way when waking up every day and watching yourself in the mirror. Hate will comfort you, little thing. I'll never deny you that. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Watch Neferis Resort VII: Auctoramentum Gladiatorum
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:26:00 - [50] ?? Please return to the thread when the drugs wear off? I'll be here. The line between ******ed, crazy, or just stoned can be hard to read in text form.... -------
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:30:00 - [51] Edited by: Revan Neferis on 18/05/2010 22:30:55 Originally by: Graelyn ?? It requires minimum 2 neurons to comprehend dear, one communicating with the other and that's more than you're able to put to function in that little mass you have inside your skull. So don't force yourself too much, I'd hate to see you having a breakdown at this point. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Watch Neferis Resort VII: Auctoramentum Gladiatorum
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:38:00 - [52] If I may, Lord Graelyn; no need to quibble with Ms Constantine's lover here. If the Fractionites can, in all their winding logic, justify doing the right thing and combat the resurgent Nation...that should be good enough.
Fridarey Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:46:00 - [53] Originally by: Graelyn We have all met that awkward kid in school, getting beaten up by bullies while shouting "it don't hurt!" through shattered teeth. It can be odd to some to meet the capsuleer equivalent of such a being. But aren't you that kid? We've kicked you up and down the stairs and listened to you bleating and whining piteously for years now. Doesn't it get a little old that you've never yet managed to achieve well ... anything in space against the fraction? Your only talent seems to be crying on galnet. But I have to say given the current levels of whinging coming from Amarrian Nationalists its not really a "talent" in short supply.
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:53:00 - [54] Originally by: Graelyn The line between * trying to bypass concord regulations to make a point * Tsk Tsk Graelyn. Aren't you even able to speak here without breaching CONCORD rules of communication on this forum? Desperate much little nothing? Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Watch Neferis Resort VII: Auctoramentum Gladiatorum
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:31:00 - [55] Edited by: Graelyn on 19/05/2010 00:38:11 Quote: Tsk Tsk Graelyn. Aren't you even able to speak here without breaching CONCORD rules of communication on this forum? Yes, there are several names for you that CONCORD doesn't approve of. Now shhhh. Originally by: Garreck If I may, Lord Graelyn; no need to quibble with Ms Constantine's lover here. If the Fractionites can, in all their winding logic, justify doing the right thing and combat the resurgent Nation...that should be good enough. Maybe. I like to hope so. There are some in the SF who are my friends, and who have a brain in their heads. Still, the leader of SF, and the leader of...whoever Ms. Neferis is with, tend to support each other. Tales persist of the problems this interference has caused SF internally over time. Since one is a proclaimed Sansha backer, and the other is a proclaimed Sansha opposer, any good intel leaked in the name of defense from Sansha attacks would surely be open to the other, yes? So, while I am glad to see SF taking the sane side of things, and I intend fully to fire alongside them if they show up on the Sansha battlefield with me, I can't risk certain intel with them. Until that question, which half a dozen people besides me are asking about in this thread, is dealt with, we have an issue. A current tactic in use by Sansha loyalists is to drop incorrect or completely misleading leads on Sansha attack locations in public comms in order to draw away capsuleer forces from the real threat. So, are you starting to get why these people want to know the answer to this question? As it stand right now, will I fly alongside SF when engaging Sansha? Yes. Will I give them intel of an attack? No. Will I believe their intel of an attack without corroberation by others? No. This situation is not conducive to either party. If this can be addressed without Moonbat Slaver Vampire Lesbian Princess getting all fumbly with second languages in the thread, maybe this situation can be dealt with. I shouldn't 'quibble' as you say, as I've recently been made painfully aware of how annoyed some folk are with my enticing her to write more things in public. But that's the gist, Garreck, old friend. Reputation is important, and currently, when you see SF, you remember Ms. Neferis. One is on one side, the other is not. The widespread understanding of this should not be blamed on me. Since it's just a couple of us old buggers arguing the point now, I will assume the general public has already made their call. -------
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:35:00 - [56] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 19/05/2010 00:35:47 Originally by: Graelyn Edited by: Graelyn on 19/05/2010 00:32:04 Quote: Tsk Tsk Graelyn. Aren't you even able to speak here without breaching CONCORD rules of communication on this forum? Yeah, there are several names for you that CONCORD doesn't approve of. Now shhhh. Originally by: Garreck If I may, Lord Graelyn; no need to quibble with Ms Constantine's lover here. If the Fractionites can, in all their winding logic, justify doing the right thing and combat the resurgent Nation...that should be good enough. Maybe. I like to hope so. There are some in the SF who are my friends, and who have a brain in their heads. Still, the leader of SF, and the leader of...whoever Ms. Neferis is with, tend to support each other. Tales persist of the problems this interference has caused SF internally over time. Since one is a proclaimed Sansha backer, and the other is a proclaimed Sansha opposer, any good intel leaked in the name of defense from Sansha attacks would surely be open to the other, yes? So, while I am glad to see SF taking the sane side of things, and I intend fully to fire alongside them if they show up on the Sansha battlefield with me, as a Chair of Until that question, which half a dozen people besides me are asking about in this thread, is dealt with, we have an issue. A current tactic in use by Sansha loyalists is to drop incorrect or completely misleading leads on Sansha attack locations in public comms in order to draw away capsuleer forces from the real threat. So, are you starting to get why these people want to know the answer to this question? As it stand right now, will I fly alongside SF when engaging Sansha? Yes. Will I give them intel of an attack? No. Will I believe their intel of an attack without corroberation by others? No. This situation is not conducive to either party. If this can be addressed without Moonbat Slaver Vampire Lesbian Princess getting all fumbly with second languages in the thread, maybe this situation can be dealt with. I shouldn't 'quibble' as you say, as I've recently been made painfully aware of how annoyed some folk are with my enticing her to write more things in public. But that's the gist, Garreck, old friend. Reputation is important, and currently, when you see SF, you remember Ms. Neferis. One is on one side, the other is not. The widespread understanding of this should not be blamed on me. Since it's just a couple of us old buggers arguing the point now, I will assume the general public has already made their call. Thats a pretty huge dose of whacko obsessional angst you're loosing on the Summit right there dog! For my part I wouldn't trust you as far as I could spit you and consider The Amarrian Slavers and Sansha Slavers pretty much identical parts of the same problem. A problem best solved with blaster rounds and violence! Buy Justice!
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:37:00 - [57] Edited by: Graelyn on 19/05/2010 00:40:06 Heh, ok then Lady, that'll make things better. I'll head out instead of taking the wide-open shots. -------
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:40:00 - [58] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Thats a pretty huge dose of whacko obsessional angst you're loosing on the Summit right there dog! Have you seen anything different from him the past 6 years? Watch Neferis Resort VII: Auctoramentum Gladiatorum
Invelious Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.05.19 06:17:00 - [59] Edited by: Invelious on 19/05/2010 06:23:16 "Given our belief that independent action is essential, the Star Fraction now gives formal 24-hour notice of hostile standings and sanctioned warfare against the following capsuleer organisations: Naqam [NQM] True Slave Foundation [TS-F] Those who actively support tyranny, of any kind, must and will be opposed. The Cosmopolite" "The Covenant and the Sansha Nation have shared positive standings from time immemorial. Hereby I confirm that I'll commence operations to facilitate the incursions of my allied forces in Amarr Empire. I'm giving 24 hours warning to Corporations who have interfered with sansha incursions inside the Empire to withdraw. When 24 hours from this announcement has expired, I'll start to issue formal concord war declarations against corporations and / or alliances of my choice, organizations who will be faced with specialized military forces and become unable to operate against Kuvakei's affairs. In advance, before the silly question appears, no, The Star Fraction won't be targeted because I don't target my lover's alliance. I'm a Sovereign of my own life, faith and decisions and this is my decision. The Star Fraction won't be targeted because it's my will. Point. Alliances and corporations blue to me won't be targeted as well. All the rest, if you classify into my description, you have 24 hours to reconsider your position. With no more. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik." Tis black and white, The Cosmopolite In dark times, the freecaptain knights Beware the dark witch, her phantom might Two forked tongues, The Cosmopolite One in each ear, ruins freecaptain knights Eyes unclouded will regain your sight ..........at home I rest, veins soaked, amarrian wine, so.... In my prayers you are, The Cosmopolite To the rest of you, goodnight.
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.05.19 06:50:00 - [60] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Returning to the topic: the issue of co-operation with enemies and the limits of such co-operation is one where it is plain that one can only proceed with confidence with those that have agreed to such co-operation and can be trusted to keep their word. Right you are. I believe that was what brother Graelyn tried to point out. Star Fraction have a reputation of not keeping their word. They are untrustworthy. When they don't like something anymore, they twist its wording, invent additional clauses or simply say 'might makes right'. Originally by: The Cosmopolite Indeed, even without agreement or truce, the preference of the Star Fraction, when faced with a great, mutual threat would be to co-operate with foes against this threat and then depart the scene in good order. Is this akin to Star Fraction's (near mythical) preference for diplomacy over coercion? I'm sorry, but it is simply not very believable. You talk the talk, but I doubt you are going to walk to walk. Originally by: The Cosmopolite Indeed, I would see a deliberate plan to fight with enemies against a greater threat and then to immediately fall on those enemies with the threat's removal as base treachery, truce or no truce. That is why I pointed out ms. Constantine's remark that she would attack me as soon as it was practical to do so, even in the face of a Sansha attack. Treachery by your own words. Surely you must see by now why Star Fraction isn't trusted very much outside of their allies? Star Fraction recently murdered an I-RAATA pilot who offered a truce and came out to talk because his acceptance of the truce wasn't conforming 100% to a multitude of minute Star Fraction conditions for accepting the truce. Rather than an apology for this act of treachery, he and everyone supporting him was slandered. That is the Star Fraction reputation. Originally by: The Cosmopolite However, we prefer clear truces and stated periods of co-operation so that everyone knows where they are. Without them, the fight often goes badly as parties fear to commit their full force should the other party plan treachery. If you prefer truces, why not accept my offer of a truce? I've already said I won't fire on SF members aiding against the Sansha threat without needing them to reciprocate. Why the threats? What is there to lose that you won't reciprocate? Are you scared of being betrayed? Originally by: The Cosmopolite Possibly, what is in Jade Constantine's mind is to openly declare that we shall never consider ourselves to be fighting alongside certain deceitful creatures unless there is a firm agreement. Possibly, you should have Jade talk for herself and not attempt damage control for her? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery

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