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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.18 02:13:00 -
[1]
there a some differences i don't understand. and i don't think some data like market size will explain the difference.
example : mechanical parts and coolant are P2 goods on PI, with the same difficulties, same Powergrid need, etc, but they have price really different on TQ as one cost twice as the other.
and there are lots of exampel like this one.
seems very dangerous for the future market like this, for the time when PI and the npc seed of these products will coexist, and even after, as what will be done at the begining will impact the future.
am i forgeting something big, or is there really a problem here ?
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Iznot
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Posted - 2010.05.18 02:45:00 -
[2]
Will they actually coexist? I thought they were going to be phased out of the NPC market and be strictly player created.
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Estimated Prophet
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Posted - 2010.05.18 02:53:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Iznot
Will they actually coexist? I thought they were going to be phased out of the NPC market and be strictly player created.
I've heard a few people say they will be phased out, but I missed the official update stating this. Anyone got a link?
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.18 03:54:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Estimated Prophet
Originally by: Iznot
Will they actually coexist? I thought they were going to be phased out of the NPC market and be strictly player created.
I've heard a few people say they will be phased out, but I missed the official update stating this. Anyone got a link?
i only heard that npc's and player's one will coexist for a few time (with no number)
don't remember where i see it also :/
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:17:00 -
[5]
Just look at enriched uranium and water...
Assume that the npc sell orders will get phased out slowly during several weeks or months (I remember a dev saying so, just can't find the quote).
Then it is pretty certain that the low priced stuff will increase in price. And the high priced stuff will either drop in price, stay or even increase depending on the volume produced.
Also assume that enriched uranium will sell for 5000 isk per unit (it is now around 5800).
On good planets you can produce 100 units enriched uranium per hour, so that would be 500k income per hour, 12 mil a day. That is not a fortune but still pretty reasonable income.
Water on the other hand costs currently only 25 isk per unit.
Based on that price the income on a planet which produces hourly 100 water ill be only 2500 isk per hour or 60k per day. NO ONE will do that, at least not in noteworthy quantities. So the price will go up and up and up ... until it is somewhere where it meets the income expectations.
Best buy some cheap water from npcs now as long as you can  |
Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.18 04:30:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 18/05/2010 04:34:51
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 18/05/2010 04:33:59
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 18/05/2010 04:31:47
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 18/05/2010 04:31:32
Edited by: Maewei Balducci on 18/05/2010 04:30:32
Originally by: Gnulpie
Just look at enriched uranium and water...
Assume that the npc sell orders will get phased out slowly during several weeks or months (I remember a dev saying so, just can't find the quote).
Then it is pretty certain that the low priced stuff will increase in price. And the high priced stuff will either drop in price, stay or even increase depending on the volume produced.
Also assume that enriched uranium will sell for 5000 isk per unit (it is now around 5800).
water is a P1 product, and can be manufactured almost on every planet type
enr. uranium is a P2 product. moreover if you want to do all the process on the same planet you need a plasma type planet, and there are not many of them
you can't compare them with the same quantities, as you can't produce the same quantitives with the same means.
16 P1 = 1 P2
so 5000 /16 = 312.5 -> water need to cost 312.5 isk / unit
or 25 * 16 = 400 -> enr. uranium need to cost 400 isk / unit
yeah it means there a 10x difference, so your example is not bad, but a part of you thinking was false ;)
and that's because i think it's possible that part of mine was false i post this topic :p
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2010.05.18 05:50:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Maewei Balducci
Originally by: Gnulpie
Just look at enriched uranium and water...
water is a P1 product, and can be manufactured almost on every planet type
enr. uranium is a P2 product.
Of course you are right. I mixed up things 
The price difference between various p2 products is nontheless huge. I mentioned enriched uranium around 5800 isk. Fertilizer, silicate glass and such are around 200 isk currently - so is a big gap at the moment. And if the market will be undisturbed by npc orders, this gap WILL close.
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Anela Cistine
Amarr
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
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Posted - 2010.05.18 07:18:00 -
[8]
Prices likely won't even out entirely, though they will change. Items that are POS fuels have an inherently higher demand than other items that take just as much effort but that are used mainly for PI manufacturing. Items that can be produced all on one planet will likely have higher supply than items that require at least 2 different kinds of planets. Items that can only be produced from relatively rare planet types will probably be more expensive than things that can be produced entirely on Barren planets. It will all work out eventually.
The market will need to be seeded by NPCs for at least a couple months while player production gets ramped up, and during that time it may not be worthwhile to produce things that are already cheap. You can get water from most planets, but if you can just buy it cheap then you should do so, and use those extractors for something else. If you want to produce a finished High Tech good in less than 3 months, you'll need to buy some of your inputs, might as well get them while they are cheap.
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Maewei Balducci
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Posted - 2010.05.18 13:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Anela Cistine
The market will need to be seeded by NPCs for at least a couple months while player production gets ramped up, and during that time it may not be worthwhile to produce things that are already cheap. You can get water from most planets, but if you can just buy it cheap then you should do so, and use those extractors for something else. If you want to produce a finished High Tech good in less than 3 months, you'll need to buy some of your inputs, might as well get them while they are cheap.
yeah i was thinking doing that, as i can't have enough skills on the first 1 month to make a complete P4 product alone, but it's easy to make one with less skill by buying npc goods.
but it means lots of people will do the same, and so on the first weeks of PI there won't be lots of extractor on planets. meaning when npc seeding will stop, all structures will change.
it also mean that the high level goods will probably be cheap at first, as it will be easy to make them with the help of npc
so it means on the first weeks there are very few utility to use PI on 0.0 space, as we will make lots of facilities, and few extractors, and will focus on making hight level products and so sells them on empire hubs.
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