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Pokechan333	Posted - 2010.05.18 19:40:00 - [1] I'm just wondering one thing, won't the release of T3 frigs make every other frigate worthless except for maybe a stealth bomber? It might cost 100 mil for a frigate, but dramiels cost that much but they are better than any other frigate so far
Captain Nares O3 Corporation	Posted - 2010.05.18 19:59:00 - [2] Originally by: Pokechan333 I'm just wondering one thing, won't the release of T3 frigs make every other frigate worthless except for maybe a stealth bomber? It might cost 100 mil for a frigate, but dramiels cost that much but they are better than any other frigate so far I rly want T3 frigs, but there is a serious obstacle on the way to them. Faction, Assault and Electronic Attack frigs aren't balanced between each other now. CCP need to boost AF/EAF and tweak Faction/Navy stuff. Overwise T3 frigs deployment will make a total mess of just mess that we have now.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:02:00 - [3] We don't know what the T3 frigates will do ù hell, it's entirely possible that they won't even be "Strategic Frigates". The only thing we know about them so far is that they'll be "cheap, highly configurable, and losing one won't be the end of the world". ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Usul Atreides	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:07:00 - [4] Originally by: Tippia We don't know what the T3 frigates will do ù hell, it's entirely possible that they won't even be "Strategic Frigates". The only thing we know about them so far is that they'll be "cheap, highly configurable, and losing one won't be the end of the world". I believe T3 cruisers were meant to be fairly cheap too according to CCP before they were released. (Okay, now they know where the market has settled and can change it accordingly, however...)
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.18 20:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Pokechan333 I'm just wondering one thing, won't the release of T3 frigs make every other frigate worthless except for maybe a stealth bomber? It might cost 100 mil for a frigate, but dramiels cost that much but they are better than any other frigate so far I really wish they don't release T3 frigates tfbh. If they follow the T2-T3 progression of cruisers they will obsolete most T2 frigates and T1 (which new player experience and stuff practically hinges on, we all got our freaking wings flying T1 frigates) will be so obsolete you won't be able to see them from your mountain of awesome with a freaking telescope. Which is, imo, a bad thing. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Caleidascope Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:01:00 - [6] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Pokechan333 I'm just wondering one thing, won't the release of T3 frigs make every other frigate worthless except for maybe a stealth bomber? It might cost 100 mil for a frigate, but dramiels cost that much but they are better than any other frigate so far I really wish they don't release T3 frigates tfbh. If they follow the T2-T3 progression of cruisers they will obsolete most T2 frigates and T1 (which new player experience and stuff practically hinges on, we all got our freaking wings flying T1 frigates) will be so obsolete you won't be able to see them from your mountain of awesome with a freaking telescope. Which is, imo, a bad thing. +1
LF9000	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:13:00 - [7] T3 Pirate Faction Marauders will be end game lvl 4 farming... lol. I love my companion cube. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie. The cake is a lie.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:13:00 - [8] The frigate selection is too crowded as it is. EAF, AF, and destroyers all need to be looked at. Strategic frigates would be a mistake.
Flitterby	Posted - 2010.05.18 21:35:00 - [9] Strategic Ibis please.
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.05.18 22:04:00 - [10] Let them do their worst. We will pwn those shineys w/ some rifters and be on our way "A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game."

Roblight	Posted - 2010.05.27 19:38:00 - [11] Yes T3 frigs will most likely make every frig worthless, I am not 100% sure but I remember during last years fan fest CCP mentioned T3 frigs very very briefly... more like a side note but they were saying T3 frigs are going to be meant mainly to allow everybody to experience T3 at a "decent price". So chances are they will be somewhat better then most frigs and subs with probably be targeted at the variations of T2 frigs ie. AF, SB, EAS etc. And for prices CCP will be able to somewhat control the prices with the amount of loot needed to make the hull and subs. And with a release of T3 frigs the value of sleeper loot needed to make them will increase as more of its being used so I would say the frigs would be closer to 150-200mil tops. As atm T3 cruisers (hull and subs)are roughly 400mil so 4x T2 cruiser prices and 2x faction cruisers prices so that should give you a decent range. Remember though CCP controls how everything will come out in the end so this is all speculation based on what CCP has it set at right now.
I SoStoned Caldari	Posted - 2010.05.27 20:18:00 - [12] As with T3 cruisers, any design that uses the modular system will have to somehow establish new roles and niches for the ships that doesn't completely trump other existing hulls. --- Dreamer: My dream, Freddy! MY RULES. Freddy Kruger: groans Awwwww, f**k. --- Never give up!
Cpt Branko Retired Pirate Club	Posted - 2010.05.27 20:26:00 - [13] Originally by: I SoStoned As with T3 cruisers, any design that uses the modular system will have to somehow establish new roles and niches for the ships that doesn't completely trump other existing hulls. Cool, so T3 frigates would do something like 350-400 DPS with 30-40K EHP and scrambling you at 20km or something with frigate speed and locktime, and that won't make it OP/FOTM/anything. Just following from the cruiser->SC progression, you know. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.05.27 21:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: I SoStoned As with T3 cruisers, any design that uses the modular system will have to somehow establish new roles and niches for the ships that doesn't completely trump other existing hulls. Cool, so T3 frigates would do something like 350-400 DPS with 30-40K EHP and scrambling you at 20km or something with frigate speed and locktime, and that won't make it OP/FOTM/anything. Just following from the cruiser->SC progression, you know. This. The frigate world is overly crowded as it is. AF need... something. EAS need to be revisited. I'd argue that destroyers need a total makeover - even the thrasher. Rockets are a joke. Faction frigates are still unbalanced. Ect. Ect. There are more then enough low price choices w/o adding strategic frigates. (I'm a bit upset that the T2 insurance is no where close to the 60% hinted at in the dev blog.) Strategic BS would have my vote.
yani dumyat Minmatar The 23rd Sense	Posted - 2010.05.27 22:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Cpt Branko I really wish they don't release T3 frigates tfbh. If they follow the T2-T3 progression of cruisers they will obsolete most T2 frigates and T1 (which new player experience and stuff practically hinges on, we all got our freaking wings flying T1 frigates) will be so obsolete you won't be able to see them from your mountain of awesome with a freaking telescope. Which is, imo, a bad thing. Right idea but it's not rifters that are under threat, it's cruisers and HAC's. T3 will not obsolete T1 frigs, there will always be a need for disposable tackle. By your way of thinking T1 frigs should already be obsolete because T2 is so much better, a noob in a rifter is very unlikely to kill an experienced player in a jag yet you get flocks of rifters that make some parts of low sec look like a Hitch** film. Balance isn't about making everything the same, it's about ensuring that everything has a counter. Currently each race has a tier 2 cruiser that excels in killing frigates (Arbitrator / Caracal / Bellicose / Vexor) and even a low SP player can cause problems for a dramiel stupid enough to get in to scram range. My worry is that if T3 frigs are more powerful than dramiels they will obsolete anti frigate cruisers. Originally by:** Cpt Branko Cool, so T3 frigates would do something like 350-400 DPS with 30-40K EHP and scrambling you at 20km or something with frigate speed and locktime, and that won't make it OP/FOTM/anything. Just following from the cruiser->SC progression, you know. I read this and couldn't help thinking vagabond, a frig with those stats would mean I'd never fly a HAC again. Lets just hope CCP tone things down a bit compared to T3 cruisers because as much as I'm looking forward to T3 frigs I don't want my navy caracal to become obsolete overnight. _______ Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel.
Ahz	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:30:00 - [16] Strategic frigates only make sense to me if CCP is willing to retire some ships. That's kind of what I was hoping they were doing with the T3 cruisers. A lego-frigate that can be reconfigured to fit the role of a Cheetah, Hyena, Wolf, Claw, Stilleto, Jaguar would be fine if you didn't have ships in all those roles already. It bugs me that there are already so many obsolete ships in-game. Not looking for CCP to add more of them. My two cents.
yani dumyat Minmatar The 23rd Sense	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Ahz A lego-frigate that can be reconfigured to fit the role of a Cheetah, Hyena, Wolf, Claw, Stilleto, Jaguar would be fine if you didn't have ships in all those roles already. It bugs me that there are already so many obsolete ships in-game. Not looking for CCP to add more of them. My two cents. Exactly how do T3 frigs obsolete all those cheap ships? Strategic cruisers have not made T2 cruisers obsolete because of the cost barrier and for a similar reason you still see many more T2 frigs than pirate faction frigs. _______ Trolls and Tribulations A story of eve, trolls, world domination and dogfighting against starlings in a tiny dramiel.
Owen Drakkar Terra Nostra	Posted - 2010.05.28 00:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Let them do their worst. We will pwn those shineys w/ some rifters and be on our way
Byzan Zwyth Firebird Squadron	Posted - 2010.05.28 00:24:00 - [19] retire frigates... the ships people use because they are cheap and require very little SP to use... because of T3? Hmmm Sig removed. Lacks EVE related content. For more information feel free to contact [email protected]. ~Saint
SFX Bladerunner Minmatar Bite me inc.	Posted - 2010.05.28 00:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Let them do their worst. We will pwn those shineys w/ some rifters and be on our way You mean in the same way you are currently 'pwning' Lokis in your Rupture/Stabber? Yeah.. I didn't think so. __________________________________________________ History is much like an endless waltz, the three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever..

Backho	Posted - 2010.05.28 00:59:00 - [21] Well i hope they are going to be unique instead of "rifters with 5 moar % per level of everything" For example Suicide Frigates role bonus: Suicide frigates always get 10% recoil damage back from its guns. "+1000% damage of Small "name-weapon" turrets per level" DD Frigates role bonus: -99.95% Power grid cost of large smartbombs "+15% cap usage of large smartbombs per level" "+10% optimal and large smartbomb damage per level" Anti-capital Frigates role bonus: -99.95% power grid of citadel class weapons "+100% damage of extra large "name weapon" turrets per level" Ewar Frigs role bonus: -99.95% power grid/cap usage of neuts/nos "+10% optimal of neuts/nos per level" "+5% to small "name weapon" turret per level" Carebaer Frigs (2 missile ports, 4 high slots) role bonus: +1000% damage for small missile launchers. +60km tractor beam range. +10 salvage bonus. However, it is weak against ewar and has only 2 sensor strength "+20% armor rep/shield boost and cargohold per level" "+10% range and rate of fire per level" Yea. lots of fun ideas for t3 frigs. lets hope they end up as fun mobiles =D instead of rifters with +5%
Ogogov	Posted - 2010.05.28 01:37:00 - [22] Strategic BC or BS would be next i'd imagine. Given how a few certain command ships suck horribly COUGHCOUGHEOSCOUGHCOUGHastarte perhaps.... ahh who am I kidding. we'll get another massively gimped ship nobody bothers to fly.
Captain Merkin Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:32:00 - [23] I really like the idea of tech 3 frigates and am interested to see how it comes out. Overkill Ishkur anyone? Wolf with 6 autos? true it will make some ships seem obsolete, but then a lot of them already are. Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981. The Kamikaze pilot
Headerman	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Roblight Yes T3 frigs will most likely make every frig worthless, I am not 100% sure but I remember during last years fan fest CCP mentioned T3 frigs very very briefly... more like a side note but they were saying T3 frigs are going to be meant mainly to allow everybody to experience T3 at a "decent price". If thats the case, i'd take a stab in the dark and say T3 frigs would only be marginally better than an assault frig, but very useful as a highly configurable machine: probing, speed, tank, DPS etc. But i would also guess that the resists and CPU/power grid would be level with T2 frigs?
Lupus Pyro	Posted - 2010.05.29 11:50:00 - [25] nah i think t3 frigs is pointless, there are too many frigs already out there, t3 cruisers clearly filled the gap of damage or tank, or both, where cruisers clearly didn't shine too well, another set of frigs is too confusing. I'd prefer CCP to focus its efforts on designing something awesome for a new mothership role, which i know is a little out of most of EVE's reach, but i think that most if not all ship roles have been filled in the lower stages of the game, now we need to see a serious flagship.
Marcus Henik	Posted - 2010.05.29 13:23:00 - [26] while I see both sides of the argument I dont see t3 frigs as obsoleting all the other frigs fr one simple reason, price. at the end of the day your still flying a ship thats going to be several timesmore expensive than its t2 counterpart, and in most cases wont fill a specfic role better than its t2 counterpart. Example: t3 scanning<t2scan boats T3ewar<t2ewar t3 has a coupl things that it can do that t2 cant, and it is pretty tuff tokill in a fight, but I am not seeing massive gangs of t3 moving around atmost 1 or 2 roaming.
Ryan Starwing	Posted - 2010.05.29 13:59:00 - [27] They will just slap a t3 sign on the dram and make you lose sp when it blows up and call it the t3 frigate. lol jk....I hope T3 frigate most likely will be either so op that it makes the dram look underpowered or it will still by why fly any frigate other than a dram if you got the isk.
Plave Okice Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya	Posted - 2010.05.30 09:29:00 - [28] T3 cov ops cloaking dictor frigates please.
Headerman	Posted - 2010.05.30 10:56:00 - [29] Maybe they can make it a sniper frig, able to fit 1 or 2 large Artillery/Rail guns/Beam lasers/cruise launchers...
omgfreemoniez	Posted - 2010.05.30 11:04:00 - [30] Think Covert cloaking Dramiel with 4 100% bonused guns with 100% falloff bonus, 20%/level to web range, and bubble launchers. Oh and it can combat probe. And goes at 10,000 m/s and has 2 built in WCS and Interdiction Nullification.

Headmann	Posted - 2010.05.30 11:31:00 - [31] Originally by: omgfreemoniez Think Covert cloaking Dramiel with 4 100% bonused guns with 100% falloff bonus, 20%/level to web range, and bubble launchers. Oh and it can combat probe. And goes at 10,000 m/s and has 2 built in WCS and Interdiction Nullification. Dood that isn't T3, thats T-1000 right there
Kendon Riddick	Posted - 2010.06.01 10:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Headmann Originally by: omgfreemoniez Think Covert cloaking Dramiel with 4 100% bonused guns with 100% falloff bonus, 20%/level to web range, and bubble launchers. Oh and it can combat probe. And goes at 10,000 m/s and has 2 built in WCS and Interdiction Nullification. Dood that isn't T3, thats T-1000 right there "a mimetic polyalloy", a liquid metal. sacrey stuff, time to get to zee choppa
Commoner Caldari The Tuskers The Tusker Bastards	Posted - 2010.06.01 10:06:00 - [33] Give me a T3 logistics frig please!
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.06.03 02:49:00 - [34] The worst thing that T3 frigates will do is cause a lot of ISK-buying, which means more ISK selling, that means more macros.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa Minmatar The Perfect Harvesting Experience	Posted - 2010.06.03 07:23:00 - [35] Originally by: Headmann Originally by: omgfreemoniez Think Covert cloaking Dramiel with 4 100% bonused guns with 100% falloff bonus, 20%/level to web range, and bubble launchers. Oh and it can combat probe. And goes at 10,000 m/s and has 2 built in WCS and Interdiction Nullification. Dood that isn't T3, thats T-1000 right there Omgfree forgot the Bistromatic Drive I and the Cloning Vat Bay I, but other than that I think he is good to go. ----------------------------------------------- Originally by: Paper Rock's fine, nerf Scissors
Cosmic Rainbow	Posted - 2010.06.03 13:39:00 - [36] Originally by: Ogogov Strategic BC or BS would be next i'd imagine. Given how a few certain command ships suck horribly COUGHCOUGHEOSCOUGHCOUGHastarte perhaps.... ahh who am I kidding. we'll get another massively gimped ship nobody bothers to fly. All CS's need a boost compared to Tier 2 or 3 or w/e they are gy BC's (ie: Drake, Cane, Harbringer etc) and this is exactly the case and point. CCP brings in new ship classes which are on par with, or in some cases better than ship classes requiring much more training time and effort and/or just completely nullifies another ship class. They need to stop this sht already. I know they want to add new skills, and keep players interested, and give them something to strive for. I know they need to introduce other ISK sinks (bigger ones) in order to get the isk out of the pockets of you richy rich b*stards, but this isnt the way. FIX the AF's. Clearly define a role for them. FIX the Destroyers. Clearly define a role for them. FIX the damn Command ships (as a whole). They need to clean up their backyard before adding more crap to it.
Ekrid	Posted - 2010.06.04 07:23:00 - [37] there's nothing strategic about a class of ship that fails epically, no matter how many reasonable bonuses you can stick on there. Operative worded bolded for emphasis.
Captain Nares O3 Corporation	Posted - 2010.06.04 07:55:00 - [38] Edited by: Captain Nares on 04/06/2010 07:56:05 Originally by: Ekrid there's nothing strategic about a class of ship that fails epically, no matter how many reasonable bonuses you can stick on there. Operative worded bolded for emphasis. I killed 3 Tengu's solo in my Dramiel. If my Dramiel was "strategic" and had a covert cloak, 100 more dps and some CPU for probe launcher, it would emm... bang a ** out of carebears rly** hard. Possible fast and cloaky T3 "covertintys" seem to be rly useful in gangs, non-cloaky T3 frigs may be nice solo fun mobiles like current Dramiel, Taranis, Crusader.
Marlinea Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.15 18:02:00 - [39] lol then why not T3 battle ship, and start to do T2 capital ship while here :P
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2010.06.15 19:30:00 - [40] T3 frigs will never happen. I mean honestly, we already have 2 entire frig classes that are useless.

Daniel Farore Gallente Synergy Capital Management	Posted - 2010.06.15 19:52:00 - [41] Edited by: Daniel Farore on 15/06/2010 19:52:37 Originally by: Marcus Henik while I see both sides of the argument I dont see t3 frigs as obsoleting all the other frigs fr one simple reason, price. at the end of the day your still flying a ship thats going to be several timesmore expensive than its t2 counterpart, and in most cases wont fill a specfic role better than its t2 counterpart. Example: t3 scanning<t2scan boats T3ewar<t2ewar t3 has a coupl things that it can do that t2 cant, and it is pretty tuff tokill in a fight, but I am not seeing massive gangs of t3 moving around atmost 1 or 2 roaming. Someone makes sense here. T3 ships offer a lot of flexibility, but aren't as focused as T2. They can be quite hardy ships but they also cost quite a bit more. We already have many different ships with the same roles but from different races that do things a bit differently. Some better than others. T3 are just another choice available. Doesn't mean everything else will be obsolete. Especially new players and people with alts wont think "I wont fly a T1 frigate because it is 'obsolete'." Right now T2 frigates are a lot better, but T1 are still used because it's cheap fun. But aside from that, yeah Gallente have awesome drones. I just wish they used lasers that don't use cap instead of hybrids.
Eva Blacklist	Posted - 2010.06.15 21:00:00 - [42] Originally by: Cpt Branko I really wish they don't release T3 frigates tfbh. If they follow the T2-T3 progression of cruisers they will obsolete most T2 frigates and T1 (which new player experience and stuff practically hinges on, we all got our freaking wings flying T1 frigates) will be so obsolete you won't be able to see them from your mountain of awesome with a freaking telescope. Which is, imo, a bad thing. +1
Headerman	Posted - 2010.06.15 22:04:00 - [43] I'm just waiting for a pirate faction Phoon. probably be waiting a while. But i think the pirate faction phoon should have similar speed as a mach, and have 8 siege launcher/turret slots for max gank
Valea Silpha Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.06.16 07:36:00 - [44] Originally by: Commoner Give me a T3 logistics frig please! THIS! And not the ****ed '50% better reps' bull** that on the cruisers. Long range, low cap use and fitting for oversized reps. FINALLY something other than scimmis for supporting fast gangs. That'd be real nice. Less rep, but more faster and thus useful. Logistics is one of the most useful roles in game atm, basically any gang wants some repper love if its on offer, and yet we have 2 decent ships for doing it, and even then guardians only get good when you hook up 4+. They can give all the rest of the subs bonuses to puppy launchers and laser pens for all I care.
Daniel Farore Gallente Synergy Capital Management	Posted - 2010.06.16 09:07:00 - [45] Edited by: Daniel Farore on 16/06/2010 09:08:27 Originally by: Valea Silpha Originally by: Commoner Give me a T3 logistics frig please! THIS! And not the ****ed '50% better reps' bull** that on the cruisers. Long range, low cap use and fitting for oversized reps. FINALLY something other than scimmis for supporting fast gangs. That'd be real nice. Less rep, but more faster and thus useful. Logistics is one of the most useful roles in game atm, basically any gang wants some repper love if its on offer, and yet we have 2 decent ships for doing it, and even then guardians only get good when you hook up 4+. They can give all the rest of the subs bonuses to puppy launchers and laser pens for all I care. Most people here seem to think of T3 as dramiels, in overdrive, with cloaks, and an insane tank. The end of all other frigates. Why does it have to be so? I like the suggestion of the logistics frigate here. And as far as cloaked frigates go, we have the probing scout and the bombing/torpedo stealth bomber. Why not give it charactaristics a-lß mini Combat Recon/Force Recon. -Stealth -Some DPS (but nothing extreme) -Durability at least on par with AF (it is T3 after all.) -Maybe some minor EWAR capabilities perhaps? Or another variant sacrificing somewhere to give it immunity to bubles/resistance to warp scrambling, allowing the use of MWD but maybe not warp. Or a variant that is the nemesis of anti-frigate cruisers, a anti-cruiser frigate. Maybe fitting cruiser sized weapons. (Without cloaking abilities.) Be creative! But aside from that, yeah Gallente have awesome drones. I just wish they used lasers that don't use cap instead of hybrids.
1Ekrid1	Posted - 2010.06.16 09:20:00 - [46] Originally by: Pokechan333 I'm just wondering one thing, won't the release of T3 frigs make every other frigate worthless except for maybe a stealth bomber? It might cost 100 mil for a frigate, but dramiels cost that much but they are better than any other frigate so far yes. T3 frigs are a horrible idea.
1Ekrid1	Posted - 2010.06.16 09:31:00 - [47] Originally by: yani dumyat Originally by: Ahz A lego-frigate that can be reconfigured to fit the role of a Cheetah, Hyena, Wolf, Claw, Stilleto, Jaguar would be fine if you didn't have ships in all those roles already. It bugs me that there are already so many obsolete ships in-game. Not looking for CCP to add more of them. My two cents. Exactly how do T3 frigs obsolete all those cheap ships? Strategic cruisers have not made T2 cruisers obsolete because of the cost barrier and for a similar reason you still see many more T2 frigs than pirate faction frigs. cost barrier. exactly. T3 is the toy of the rich person who can afford it and will WTFPWNBBQ all other frigs. say its 3 T1 frigs against 1 T3 frig. Im sure the T3 frig will win. This game just gets more entrenched in vet players having ultimate power over newcomwers every day.
JS LiamElms Gallente Zor Industries Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.06.16 11:00:00 - [48] t3 cruisers ruined the cruiser class! just saying yeah.... but i would like to add something interesting to this... people will start going back to t2 and t1 when they realise that t3 frigs will be just like t3 crusiers. you lose skill points everytime you die... and thats the biggest annoyance! not to add, your t3 frig will be a lot easier to kill than your t3 crusier. i for one enjoy the flexibility of having 1 hull with lots of variations than having to haul many around with me. As you move from 1 part of eve to another.
1Ekrid1	Posted - 2010.06.16 11:26:00 - [49] Originally by: JS LiamElms t3 cruisers ruined the cruiser class! just saying yeah.... but i would like to add something interesting to this... people will start going back to t2 and t1 when they realise that t3 frigs will be just like t3 crusiers. you lose skill points everytime you die... and thats the biggest annoyance! not to add, your t3 frig will be a lot easier to kill than your t3 crusier. i for one enjoy the flexibility of having 1 hull with lots of variations than having to haul many around with me. As you move from 1 part of eve to another. yeah, 3 scrams and 2 webs on a gank BC, and a dead T3 frigate later you're out on skills that will take a while to get back. you'll spend all your time skilling. How was this ever a good idea, and how it ever got passed and implemented one will never know. There's 1, repeat 1, frigate in the T1 lineup designed to be a suicide tackler. the rest are for COMBAT. so don't tell me to tackle when I'm in a combat T1 frig. OR tell CCP to fix their mess.
Lord Sutekh	Posted - 2010.06.16 11:31:00 - [50] Edited by: Lord Sutekh on 16/06/2010 11:35:27 When I first started this game the t1 ships where invaluable. It was a long time before I got into any t2 ships. Even after playing for a long time t3 took time to get into and I know alot of old dogs that straight up won't fly a t3. Every ship has a specific roll and I still have alot of my old ships and still fly them alot. T3 replaces nothing. Everything has a nitch. T3 are expensive to buy and fit, they are also very skill intensive. They ruin nothing, I welcome them to come. I still fly my Punisher and that is a t1 frig. I can fly most ships in the game and I fly a punisher off and on. Originally by: Captain Nares Edited by: Captain Nares on 04/06/2010 07:56:05 Originally by: Ekrid there's nothing strategic about a class of ship that fails epically, no matter how many reasonable bonuses you can stick on there. Operative worded bolded for emphasis. I killed 3 Tengu's solo in my Dramiel. If my Dramiel was "strategic" and had a covert cloak, 100 more dps and some CPU for probe launcher, it would emm... bang a ** out of carebears rly hard. Possible fast and cloaky T3 "covertintys" seem to be rly useful in gangs, non-cloaky T3 frigs may be nice solo fun mobiles like current Dramiel, Taranis, Crusader. The only way you possibly managed to take out a tengu was either A)The ship had no fit on it at all and the person was afk and probably low skills. B) You where the tackler in a group and just happened to be shooting at it so you can say you killed one. C) The pilot was a complete noob wiht no skills to speak of and a complete ** fit. A Dram attacking my tengu would be a complete joke. You would be lucky to make my shields even show a scratch with my active tank off and me afk.

1Ekrid1	Posted - 2010.06.16 11:43:00 - [51] Originally by: Lord Sutekh Edited by: Lord Sutekh on 16/06/2010 11:35:27 When I first started this game the t1 ships where invaluable. It was a long time before I got into any t2 ships. Even after playing for a long time t3 took time to get into and I know alot of old dogs that straight up won't fly a t3. Every ship has a specific roll and I still have alot of my old ships and still fly them alot. T3 replaces nothing. Everything has a nitch. T3 are expensive to buy and fit, they are also very skill intensive. They ruin nothing, I welcome them to come. I still fly my Punisher and that is a t1 frig. I can fly most ships in the game and I fly a punisher off and on. Originally by: Captain Nares Edited by: Captain Nares on 04/06/2010 07:56:05 Originally by: Ekrid there's nothing strategic about a class of ship that fails epically, no matter how many reasonable bonuses you can stick on there. Operative worded bolded for emphasis. I killed 3 Tengu's solo in my Dramiel. If my Dramiel was "strategic" and had a covert cloak, 100 more dps and some CPU for probe launcher, it would emm... bang a ** out of carebears rly hard. Possible fast and cloaky T3 "covertintys" seem to be rly useful in gangs, non-cloaky T3 frigs may be nice solo fun mobiles like current Dramiel, Taranis, Crusader. The only way you possibly managed to take out a tengu was either A)The ship had no fit on it at all and the person was afk and probably low skills. B) You where the tackler in a group and just happened to be shooting at it so you can say you killed one. C) The pilot was a complete noob wiht no skills to speak of and a complete ** fit. A Dram attacking my tengu would be a complete joke. You would be lucky to make my shields even show a scratch with my active tank off and me afk. flying a punisher around amarr prime doesn = flying it in PVP as a gank fit because you aren't being forced to set it to tackle by your FC, and doesn't = roaming in lowsec to get fights in it and have a chance in hell of winning. as to your quote about the dramiel, Im quite sure thats what it was, he was tackling and had a gun that gave him .01% of all the damage against the ship so he got the killmail as well when his gang popped it. yay for roams. has anyone considered that this enourages more gank fit blobbing and gate camping to try to grief people in T3 ships so they lose lots of money and skills, thereby getting low SP low ISK T1 ship newbies caught in the crossfire whenever they go anywhere? because they'll just be a one second target practice for the lulz to pass the time waiting to gank tengus on gates. There's 1, repeat 1, frigate in the T1 lineup designed to be a suicide tackler. the rest are for COMBAT. so don't tell me to tackle when I'm in a combat T1 frig. OR tell CCP to fix their mess.
Shade Millith Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.06.16 12:29:00 - [52] Originally by: 1Ekrid1 e sure thats what it was, he was tackling and had a gun that gave him .01% of all the damage against the ship so he got the killmail as well when his gang popped it. yay for roams. The does have 3 kills on tengu's, but they were either horribly fit, T1 medium shield booster, Badly thought though passive tank, or duel small rep with no EM resistance, and all three had rats on them. ------------------------
ZigZag Joe Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.16 12:51:00 - [53] 1. buff tier1 bcs vs tier2 - another slot for ferox/brutix, another gun for proph/cyclone, fitting buff 2. buff AFs - another slot, TRUE 4th bonus, revise the current bonuses ( http://zzj.itf-inc.com/downloads/AFs.html ) 3. buff dessies - increase base hp to tier3 cruiser levels, another slot (low caldari, minnie, mid for gal, amarr), and mild fitting buffs 4. do _something_ for keres and hyena - fittings, move slots?? 5. make the lesser used t3 subsystems worth something 6. sort out CSes 7. make me a sandwich 8. balance scimi/oneios vs basi/guardian (cap recharge, fitting) 9. buff hybrids, drone hp, and get gal a true midrange weapon system 10. make non tier3 frigs worth something (what's accomplished by them being so utterly useless?) then maybe, maybe, contemplate t3 frigs.
Lord Sutekh	Posted - 2010.06.16 14:22:00 - [54] Originally by: 1Ekrid1 flying a punisher around amarr prime doesn = flying it in PVP as a gank fit because you aren't being forced to set it to tackle by your FC, and doesn't = roaming in lowsec to get fights in it and have a chance in hell of winning. as to your quote about the dramiel, Im quite sure thats what it was, he was tackling and had a gun that gave him .01% of all the damage against the ship so he got the killmail as well when his gang popped it. yay for roams. has anyone considered that this enourages more gank fit blobbing and gate camping to try to grief people in T3 ships so they lose lots of money and skills, thereby getting low SP low ISK T1 ship newbies caught in the crossfire whenever they go anywhere? because they'll just be a one second target practice for the lulz to pass the time waiting to gank tengus on gates. Actually I fly it with 3+ other people in low sec killing rates and the occasional LOLZ when some lone random ship is passing through, such as a hulk, retriever, BS, or a badly fit cruiser / BC. Its just for the lol really and if I die who gives a **** it was a few mill to t2 fit and I don't care I just buy a new one. When I take my more expensive ships out (300m+ total value) I am on vent with alot of others ready to come pvp at a moments notice, and if I got into low sec I go with alteast 2 others that are well fit just to be safe and yes I am still on vent for fast back up. Finally who in ther right mind takes an expensive ship through a gate without having eyes on the other side to know what is coming? My tengu in low sec with no eyes? your out of your damn mind, I'll just fly my drake at that time thank you very much.


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