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[BRACKET] Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion.

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Xtover Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.21 16:48:00 - [1] The CSM has been touted by CCP as a department right, with real imput to get a cohesive say from the playerbase. It's time to put that to the test. This is a proposal in itself, to cover many proposals in this forum already. However the proposal is urging CCP that the next expansion be focused on improving current content instead of adding new content. That providing a sustaining environment is just as vital as adding to it. Faction War needs help, badly. Missions are 2 dimensional. Lowsec is a vast wasteland. There are network and connectivity issues (lag). Many ships need balancing work done, such as rocket based and assault ships. The dominion sov system needs tweaking. This is a plea for CCP to focus on fixing the backlog of issues before the game becomes unplayable.
Crazy KSK	Posted - 2010.05.21 18:21:00 - [2] YES! Exactly that is what eve needs! I'd even go further and say that ccp should look at every feature every ship every weapons system and every item in game and bring it all in line with each other! SuperSupported!
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.05.21 18:40:00 - [3] They can't even change cyno effects in less than a year I don't think they got the slightest idea on how to "fix" the things you mentioned. Therefore, this thread is kind of pointless. We need specific threads, that address specific issues, that tell CCP exactly what to do so they don't **** it up.
Xtover	Posted - 2010.05.21 19:43:00 - [4] Originally by: Ephemeron They can't even change cyno effects in less than a year I don't think they got the slightest idea on how to "fix" the things you mentioned. Therefore, this thread is kind of pointless. We need specific threads, that address specific issues, that tell CCP exactly what to do so they don't **** it up. They were examples. The point is that the next expansion should work on fleshing out current content and not so much as adding anything new. Perfection shouldn't be expected, but some actual :effort: in focusing the development to actually handling current issues might be needed.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.05.21 21:03:00 - [5] With soon to fail Tyranis expansion - half-baked , bugged as hell and boring , lets be honest after a month everyone will treat PI as a another job they have to do . CCP will have even more stuff to fix. They should spend next 6 months , fixing and upgrading stuff they currently have.
greymouse Black Eclipse Corp	Posted - 2010.05.22 08:51:00 - [6] /supported /mega-supported In fact, several CSM candidates ran on platforms stating essentially the same thing. CCP needs to slow down on the new content and spend more time on stability and QA issues. In my own campaign, I proposed an 18 month to 2 year expansion cycle, instead of the 6-month to 1 year cycle currently in use. Cry Havoc!! Release the Mice of Menace!!!
Cedkin	Posted - 2010.05.22 10:49:00 - [7] Actually, i agree with everything you posted, but i still don't support the idea. What i would like to see is more balanced expansions, with new content AND fixes to current ones. The entire eve community is at best.... whiny. If there is only new content and no fixes to your personal favorite mechanic you will whine on the forums, "WUAAAH fix roflkets, WUAAAH fix FW". If there is no new content other people will whine on the forums "WUAAAH, no new content, WTF CCP! I cancel my 10 subscriptions today... WUAAAH etc etc". The only chance to please everyone will be to simply do both at a smaller scale rather than focusing on just one aspect and be patient. CCP are (hopefully) aware of the issues, but as any company they have limited resources. Now, if only they fix those damn railguns... I like to post too, but sometimes i don't know what to say. So i just post something random like this post. But on the other hand, it might just all be a large signature.
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.05.22 12:19:00 - [8] Edited by: Kiri Serrensun on 22/05/2010 12:19:04 Don't forget the other three epic pirate arcs, T3 frigates, the other T3 subsystems and AI upgrades. There's a whole content worth in just finishing stuff that already exists.
Shandir Minmatar Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2010.05.22 12:28:00 - [9] I would say that before we go hanging CCP for 'not getting it', we should ask them - CCP, what percentage of your resources are allocated to: Fixing the little stuff (Tweaks and balances, annoying but non-critical bugs, minor features that the community asks for) Doing the promised 'we will return to X' (And which things are planned to getting done with this team just now) Refactoring (Fixing the lag) Entirely new features (Such as PI and Incarna) *Just out of curiosity: Dust. Now, I'm not suggesting we get a lot of time spent on this - I think the EVE community just needs some ballpark figures so that it can see if it wants to push CCP to put more resources to existing content.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2010.05.22 13:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Shandir Fixing the little stuff (Tweaks and balances, annoying but non-critical bugs, minor features that the community asks for) 0% Originally by:* Shandir Doing the promised 'we will return to X' (And which things are planned to getting done with this team just now) 0% Originally by:* Shandir Refactoring (Fixing the lag) Not much , but still its more than 0%. Originally by:* Shandir Entirely new features (Such as PI and Incarna) I wouldnt say to much considering how poor upcoming expansion is gooing to be. My guess is 20% Originally by:* Shandir *Just out of curiosity: Dust. A lot ?

Mkah Mvet Chumly Incorporated Beyond-Control	Posted - 2010.05.22 15:45:00 - [11] CCP can't not introduce something new. They have to introduce something new for the sake of marketing at least. They did 1 expansion where they didn't introduce anything new and only improved what was already there and it was the least successful expansion to date. So modifying the proposal I'd say to make your expansion a revamp of corp/alliance window, implementing the treaties system so there's something to use as a marketing tool, and don't add anything else new. More importantly than doing 'fixes' is to do a whole expansion without screwing over the player base. That's what I'm lacking confidence in.
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.05.23 00:05:00 - [12] Wearily supporting this, doubt CCP has any interest in it.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2010.05.23 01:47:00 - [13] Surely the Industry Expansion that has been on the cards for a few years, along with a rebuild of the corp interface and other UI would be close enough to qualify as "new content". Maybe fixing the font alone would be worthy of a massively.com article.
Omega Flames Last Resort Inn SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2010.05.23 10:23:00 - [14] ------------------------- "Forsys > WAR Forsys > HUH Forsys > WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR Harry Sunday > loot Forsys > touchT"
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.05.23 11:41:00 - [15] Unfinished Expansions (CSM) [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Nooma K'Larr Cat's Cradle	Posted - 2010.05.24 02:58:00 - [16] /signed please fix/update the current game before adding anything more. ------------------------------------------------ Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion.
Abraxias	Posted - 2010.05.24 03:25:00 - [17] I think these things can be looked at, in due time, without affecting the next release. Your list of things could quickly grow beyond what could be looked at in an single update and not all are high priority overall. My list of things that need to be looked at in the near future. Fleet lag Missions being too generic. Need to be more dynamic and still worth ones time. Exploration could be a little more rewarding for the stealthy pilot. Kind of simiar to speed boat, but for CovOps/Recons. No insurance claimed when Concord blows up your ship Tech III Covert Ops using Covert Cyno Assualt Ships Rockets Destroyers not really up to par WH Space could use some attention Cyno graphics not too good Ship scanning could be adjusted a bit Invention - ME/PE affecting resulting BPC Local removal BlackOps revisit
Steve Thomas	Posted - 2010.05.24 06:49:00 - [18] Edited by: Steve Thomas on 24/05/2010 06:57:27 Stop craming raw dough down the players throughts saying this is freshly baked cookies. how freaking hard can it be to understand that! shesh althoug to be blunt at this point I will settle for the Raw dough and not unbaged flower cartons of eggs dried coca beans still in the pod crap pile that is PI currently. Next expansion, at the rate there going its going to be dirt and chickens because there not even going to give the plants time to grow and the chickens time to lay eggs. . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.05.24 08:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Xtover The point is that the next expansion should work on fleshing out current content and not so much as adding anything new. Perfection shouldn't be expected, but some actual :effort: in focusing the development to actually handling current issues might be needed. ^ QFT As far as marketing ****zle goes: fix lag (heh, so easy to say!) and make the next expansion video based on "fight wars with 1000 other people!". Something like Butterfly Effect was.
Boraf Flux	Posted - 2010.05.24 10:04:00 - [20] Supporting this even though there is faint hope of it ever happening.

Dariah Stardweller Gung-Ho	Posted - 2010.05.24 10:26:00 - [21] Originally by: Boraf Flux Supporting this even though there is faint hope of it ever happening. Qft but still supporting.
Ti'anla Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.24 12:20:00 - [22] Edited by: Ti''anla on 24/05/2010 12:26:52 There are only a limited number of people you can throw at a problem before they start getting in each-others way; I've no interest in supporting a proposition will either result in a 'too many cooks' situation or leave the development teams (many of whom have been working separately from core development on expansions for multiple years now, such as Incarna) sitting on their thumbs. CCP run fixes as they can, and while they might not prioritise them quite as much as possible, they do so while focussing on the 'dream' Eve represents and while avoiding the issues come with too Much focus. Plus, as someone else said, it's impossible to fix everything in one go - and in my opinion, ever. This is an MMORPG, the most unstable, bug-liable genre of videogame in existence; no MMO will ever be completely 'fixed' unless it's become completely stagnant. Not everyone at CCP is trained to do code repairs and an 'expansion' dedicated to optimisation without any extra elements to work on (which is basically what you're asking for, because all the expansions thus far have had new stuff AND optimisations / fixes, Tyrannis especially so, and the last one was an attempt at a total rework to fix older issues) would just produce a mass of redundant artists and developers. Quit whining. Sometimes I think CCP ought just claim to have most of their dev's focussed on optimisation with a few working on completing long-term projects - then go on as normal and watch as everyone whining about changing and adding stuff thinks they've got their way and shuts up, then fails to realise otherwise when the new 'expansion' comes out, playing up the fixes and playing down the additions. Yes, there are issues to be fixed, but seriously, all these posts demanding a complete focus on fixing issues with no further development are just 'my stuff isn't fixed yet and I'm going to ignore all the evidence there are efforts to improve what's already there, so I'm going to yell about it until they stop doing other things too, thus making myself feel better'. CCP and CSM, please, ignore this topic and keep on very much as you are.
Madner Kami Durendal Ascending Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub	Posted - 2010.05.24 13:43:00 - [23] Edited by: Madner Kami on 24/05/2010 13:44:05 This is, by no means, a proposal to stop developing new content, but a proposal to actually revisit old content and make it complete. Nobody wants CCP to stop going further, quite the contrary, but what do ever new stepping stones help you, if the road you built crumbles behind you? So stop whining about something that has not been said nor is intended
Xtover Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.24 16:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Mkah Mvet CCP can't not introduce something new. They have to introduce something new for the sake of marketing at least. When you revamp current problems, marketing can push the changes. Buff lowsec with some ideas presented in the "Outlaw" CSM thread, it's new content. Update the ~50% of useless AFs and advertise lowsec piracy and "epic speed arcs" Use hacking and to give clues to hidden ABC belts, even some very rare ones in hisec but more common in lowsec. Or maybe unlock a BPC, who knows? buff black ops and highlight covert operatons, give them a means to subvert the enemy behind lines- maybe even adjust/shorten RF timers on stations. I dunno, lots to play with here. The point is, improving current half-finished content can easily be shown as new content.. hell every foot product comes with a "new and improved" version, or a new car model of the same type.
Sir SmellyFart State War Academy	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Xtover Originally by: Mkah Mvet CCP can't not introduce something new. They have to introduce something new for the sake of marketing at least. When you revamp current problems, marketing can push the changes. Buff lowsec with some ideas presented in the "Outlaw" CSM thread, it's new content. Update the ~50% of useless AFs and advertise lowsec piracy and "epic speed arcs" Use hacking and to give clues to hidden ABC belts, even some very rare ones in hisec but more common in lowsec. Or maybe unlock a BPC, who knows? buff black ops and highlight covert operatons, give them a means to subvert the enemy behind lines- maybe even adjust/shorten RF timers on stations. I dunno, lots to play with here. The point is, improving current half-finished content can easily be shown as new content.. hell every foot product comes with a "new and improved" version, or a new car model of the same type. Exactly
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.05.24 17:11:00 - [26] Edited by: Bagehi on 24/05/2010 17:11:21 Honestly would be nice to have a short update on the status of each, if not actually have these fixes rolled out. A Dev blog with "top proposals in Assembly Hall and what has come of them" would be fantastic. EDIT: Supporting fixing them as well. Obviously. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:22:00 - [27] to be honest, after going over the old expansion feature list on the right you almost need to start over and list every featuer and check off the ones not realy implimented . . . . . . . . a (Long) Guide to Pi
Xtover Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Ti'anla Edited by: Ti''anla on 24/05/2010 12:26:52 There are only a limited number of people you can throw at a problem before they start getting in each-others way; I've no interest in supporting a proposition will either result in a 'too many cooks' situation or leave the development teams (many of whom have been working separately from core development on expansions for multiple years now, such as Incarna) sitting on their thumbs. CCP run fixes as they can, and while they might not prioritise them quite as much as possible, they do so while focussing on the 'dream' Eve represents and while avoiding the issues come with too Much focus. Plus, as someone else said, it's impossible to fix everything in one go - and in my opinion, ever. This is an MMORPG, the most unstable, bug-liable genre of videogame in existence; no MMO will ever be completely 'fixed' unless it's become completely stagnant. Not everyone at CCP is trained to do code repairs and an 'expansion' dedicated to optimisation without any extra elements to work on (which is basically what you're asking for, because all the expansions thus far have had new stuff AND optimisations / fixes, Tyrannis especially so, and the last one was an attempt at a total rework to fix older issues) would just produce a mass of redundant artists and developers. Quit whining. Sometimes I think CCP ought just claim to have most of their dev's focussed on optimisation with a few working on completing long-term projects - then go on as normal and watch as everyone whining about changing and adding stuff thinks they've got their way and shuts up, then fails to realise otherwise when the new 'expansion' comes out, playing up the fixes and playing down the additions. Yes, there are issues to be fixed, but seriously, all these posts demanding a complete focus on fixing issues with no further development are just 'my stuff isn't fixed yet and I'm going to ignore all the evidence there are efforts to improve what's already there, so I'm going to yell about it until they stop doing other things too, thus making myself feel better'. CCP and CSM, please, ignore this topic and keep on very much as you are. I had a long and insightful post explaining how CCP has plenty of resources to fix problems. It also explained how the problems affect the vast majority of users. But no, the stupid and unecessary forum security features ate it.. so I'm just going to say you're completely wrong.
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.05.24 18:58:00 - [29] Originally by: Mkah Mvet CCP can't not introduce something new. They have to introduce something new for the sake of marketing at least. Technically, Dominion introduced nothing new for it's big feature (Sov revision), only a revised way of doing something already in place. It's all in how you market it.
Xtover Amarr	Posted - 2010.05.24 19:17:00 - [30] in fact looking at dominion, the only "new" things were: 1) 4 "navy" battleships 2) citadel cruise launchers sov was reworked, and the rest was random stuff. FBs didn't make it until 1.1 However no changes were made except to sov



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