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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.21 16:48:00 -
[1]
The CSM has been touted by CCP as a department right, with real imput to get a cohesive say from the playerbase. It's time to put that to the test.
This is a proposal in itself, to cover many proposals in this forum already. However the proposal is urging CCP that the next expansion be focused on improving current content instead of adding new content. That providing a sustaining environment is just as vital as adding to it.
Faction War needs help, badly.
Missions are 2 dimensional.
Lowsec is a vast wasteland.
There are network and connectivity issues (lag).
Many ships need balancing work done, such as rocket based and assault ships.
The dominion sov system needs tweaking.
This is a plea for CCP to focus on fixing the backlog of issues before the game becomes unplayable.
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Crazy KSK
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Posted - 2010.05.21 18:21:00 -
[2]
YES! Exactly that is what eve needs!
I'd even go further and say that ccp should look at every feature every ship every weapons system and every item in game and bring it all in line with each other!
SuperSupported!
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Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.05.21 18:40:00 -
[3]
They can't even change cyno effects in less than a year
I don't think they got the slightest idea on how to "fix" the things you mentioned. Therefore, this thread is kind of pointless. We need specific threads, that address specific issues, that tell CCP exactly what to do so they don't **** it up.
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Xtover
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Posted - 2010.05.21 19:43:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Ephemeron
They can't even change cyno effects in less than a year
I don't think they got the slightest idea on how to "fix" the things you mentioned. Therefore, this thread is kind of pointless. We need specific threads, that address specific issues, that tell CCP exactly what to do so they don't **** it up.
They were examples.
The point is that the next expansion should work on fleshing out current content and not so much as adding anything new.
Perfection shouldn't be expected, but some actual :effort: in focusing the development to actually handling current issues might be needed.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.21 21:03:00 -
[5]
With soon to fail Tyranis expansion - half-baked , bugged as hell and boring , lets be honest after a month everyone will treat PI as a another job they have to do .
CCP will have even more stuff to fix.
They should spend next 6 months , fixing and upgrading stuff they currently have.
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greymouse
Black Eclipse Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.22 08:51:00 -
[6]
/supported
/mega-supported
In fact, several CSM candidates ran on platforms stating essentially the same thing. CCP needs to slow down on the new content and spend more time on stability and QA issues. In my own campaign, I proposed an 18 month to 2 year expansion cycle, instead of the 6-month to 1 year cycle currently in use.
Cry Havoc!! Release the Mice of Menace!!! |
Cedkin
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Posted - 2010.05.22 10:49:00 -
[7]
Actually, i agree with everything you posted, but i still don't support the idea.
What i would like to see is more balanced expansions, with new content AND fixes to current ones.
The entire eve community is at best.... whiny. If there is only new content and no fixes to your personal favorite mechanic you will whine on the forums, "WUAAAH fix roflkets, WUAAAH fix FW". If there is no new content other people will whine on the forums "WUAAAH, no new content, WTF CCP! I cancel my 10 subscriptions today... WUAAAH etc etc".
The only chance to please everyone will be to simply do both at a smaller scale rather than focusing on just one aspect and be patient. CCP are (hopefully) aware of the issues, but as any company they have limited resources.
Now, if only they fix those damn railguns...
I like to post too, but sometimes i don't know what to say. So i just post something random like this post. But on the other hand, it might just all be a large signature. |
Kiri Serrensun
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Posted - 2010.05.22 12:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kiri Serrensun on 22/05/2010 12:19:04
Don't forget the other three epic pirate arcs, T3 frigates, the other T3 subsystems and AI upgrades. There's a whole content worth in just finishing stuff that already exists.
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Shandir
Minmatar
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2010.05.22 12:28:00 -
[9]
I would say that before we go hanging CCP for 'not getting it', we should ask them - CCP, what percentage of your resources are allocated to:
*Fixing the little stuff (Tweaks and balances, annoying but non-critical bugs, minor features that the community asks for)
*Doing the promised 'we will return to X' (And which things are planned to getting done with this team just now)
*Refactoring (Fixing the lag)
*Entirely new features (Such as PI and Incarna)
*Just out of curiosity: Dust.
Now, I'm not suggesting we get a lot of time spent on this - I think the EVE community just needs some ballpark figures so that it can see if it wants to push CCP to put more resources to existing content.
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.05.22 13:48:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shandir
*Fixing the little stuff (Tweaks and balances, annoying but non-critical bugs, minor features that the community asks for)
0%
Originally by: Shandir
*Doing the promised 'we will return to X' (And which things are planned to getting done with this team just now)
0%
Originally by: Shandir
*Refactoring (Fixing the lag)
Not much , but still its more than 0%.
Originally by: Shandir
*Entirely new features (Such as PI and Incarna)
I wouldnt say to much considering how poor upcoming expansion is gooing to be.
My guess is 20%
Originally by: Shandir
*Just out of curiosity: Dust.
A lot ?
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Mkah Mvet
Chumly Incorporated
Beyond-Control
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Posted - 2010.05.22 15:45:00 -
[11]
CCP *can't* not introduce something new. They have to introduce something new for the sake of marketing at least. They did 1 expansion where they didn't introduce anything new and only improved what was already there and it was the least successful expansion to date. So modifying the proposal I'd say to make your expansion a revamp of corp/alliance window, implementing the treaties system so there's something to use as a marketing tool, and don't add anything else new. More importantly than doing 'fixes' is to do a whole expansion without screwing over the player base. That's what I'm lacking confidence in.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.05.23 00:05:00 -
[12]
Wearily supporting this, doubt CCP has any interest in it.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.05.23 01:47:00 -
[13]
Surely the Industry Expansion that has been on the cards for a few years,
along with a rebuild of the corp interface and other UI would be close
enough to qualify as "new content". Maybe fixing the font alone would be
worthy of a massively.com article.
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Omega Flames
Last Resort Inn
SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
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Posted - 2010.05.23 10:23:00 -
[14]
-------------------------
"Forsys > WAR
Forsys > HUH
Forsys > WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR
Harry Sunday > loot
Forsys > touchT" |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.05.23 11:41:00 -
[15]
Unfinished Expansions (CSM)
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Nooma K'Larr
Cat's Cradle
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Posted - 2010.05.24 02:58:00 -
[16]
/signed
please fix/update the current game before adding anything more.
------------------------------------------------
Urging CCP to work on current issues next expansion. |
Abraxias
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Posted - 2010.05.24 03:25:00 -
[17]
I think these things can be looked at, in due time, without affecting the next release.
Your list of things could quickly grow beyond what could be looked at in an single update and not all are high priority overall.
My list of things that need to be looked at in the near future.
Fleet lag
Missions being too generic. Need to be more dynamic and still worth ones time.
Exploration could be a little more rewarding for the stealthy pilot. Kind of simiar to speed boat, but for CovOps/Recons.
No insurance claimed when Concord blows up your ship
Tech III Covert Ops using Covert Cyno
Assualt Ships
Rockets
Destroyers not really up to par
WH Space could use some attention
Cyno graphics not too good
Ship scanning could be adjusted a bit
Invention - ME/PE affecting resulting BPC
Local removal
BlackOps revisit
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2010.05.24 06:49:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 24/05/2010 06:57:27
Stop craming raw dough down the players throughts saying this is freshly baked cookies.
how freaking hard can it be to understand that! shesh
althoug to be blunt at this point I will settle for the Raw dough and not unbaged flower cartons of eggs dried coca beans still in the pod crap pile that is PI currently. 
Next expansion, at the rate there going its going to be dirt and chickens because there not even going to give the plants time to grow and the chickens time to lay eggs.
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2010.05.24 08:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Xtover
The point is that the next expansion should work on fleshing out current content and not so much as adding anything new.
Perfection shouldn't be expected, but some actual :effort: in focusing the development to actually handling current issues might be needed.
^ QFT
As far as marketing ****zle goes: fix lag (heh, so easy to say!) and make the next expansion video based on "fight wars with 1000 other people!". Something like Butterfly Effect was.
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Boraf Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.24 10:04:00 -
[20]
Supporting this even though there is faint hope of it ever happening.
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Dariah Stardweller
Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2010.05.24 10:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Boraf Flux
Supporting this even though there is faint hope of it ever happening.
Qft but still supporting.
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Ti'anla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.24 12:20:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Ti''anla on 24/05/2010 12:26:52
There are only a limited number of people you can throw at a problem before they start getting in each-others way; I've no interest in supporting a proposition will either result in a 'too many cooks' situation or leave the development teams (many of whom have been working separately from core development on expansions for multiple years now, such as Incarna) sitting on their thumbs.
CCP run fixes as they can, and while they might not prioritise them quite as much as possible, they do so while focussing on the 'dream' Eve represents and while avoiding the issues come with too Much focus. Plus, as someone else said, it's impossible to fix everything in one go - and in my opinion, ever. This is an MMORPG, the most unstable, bug-liable genre of videogame in existence; no MMO will ever be completely 'fixed' unless it's become completely stagnant.
Not everyone at CCP is trained to do code repairs and an 'expansion' dedicated to optimisation without any extra elements to work on (which is basically what you're asking for, because all the expansions thus far have had new stuff AND optimisations / fixes, Tyrannis especially so, and the last one was an attempt at a total rework to fix older issues) would just produce a mass of redundant artists and developers.
Quit whining. Sometimes I think CCP ought just claim to have most of their dev's focussed on optimisation with a few working on completing long-term projects - then go on as normal and watch as everyone whining about changing and adding stuff thinks they've got their way and shuts up, then fails to realise otherwise when the new 'expansion' comes out, playing up the fixes and playing down the additions.
Yes, there are issues to be fixed, but seriously, all these posts demanding a complete focus on fixing issues with no further development are just 'my stuff isn't fixed yet and I'm going to ignore all the evidence there are efforts to improve what's already there, so I'm going to yell about it until they stop doing other things too, thus making myself feel better'.
CCP and CSM, please, ignore this topic and keep on very much as you are.
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Madner Kami
Durendal Ascending
Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
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Posted - 2010.05.24 13:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Madner Kami on 24/05/2010 13:44:05
This is, by no means, a proposal to stop developing new content, but a proposal to actually revisit old content and make it complete. Nobody wants CCP to stop going further, quite the contrary, but what do ever new stepping stones help you, if the road you built crumbles behind you? So stop whining about something that has not been said nor is intended 
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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.24 16:22:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Mkah Mvet
CCP *can't* not introduce something new. They have to introduce something new for the sake of marketing at least.
When you revamp current problems, marketing can push the changes.
Buff lowsec with some ideas presented in the "Outlaw" CSM thread, it's new content.
Update the ~50% of useless AFs and advertise lowsec piracy and "epic speed arcs"
Use hacking and to give clues to hidden ABC belts, even some very rare ones in hisec but more common in lowsec. Or maybe unlock a BPC, who knows?
buff black ops and highlight covert operatons, give them a means to subvert the enemy behind lines- maybe even adjust/shorten RF timers on stations. I dunno, lots to play with here.
The point is, improving current half-finished content can easily be shown as new content.. hell every foot product comes with a "new and improved" version, or a new car model of the same type.
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Sir SmellyFart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.05.24 17:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: Mkah Mvet
CCP *can't* not introduce something new. They have to introduce something new for the sake of marketing at least.
When you revamp current problems, marketing can push the changes.
Buff lowsec with some ideas presented in the "Outlaw" CSM thread, it's new content.
Update the ~50% of useless AFs and advertise lowsec piracy and "epic speed arcs"
Use hacking and to give clues to hidden ABC belts, even some very rare ones in hisec but more common in lowsec. Or maybe unlock a BPC, who knows?
buff black ops and highlight covert operatons, give them a means to subvert the enemy behind lines- maybe even adjust/shorten RF timers on stations. I dunno, lots to play with here.
The point is, improving current half-finished content can easily be shown as new content.. hell every foot product comes with a "new and improved" version, or a new car model of the same type.
Exactly 
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.24 17:11:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Bagehi on 24/05/2010 17:11:21
Honestly would be nice to have a short update on the status of each, if not actually have these fixes rolled out. A Dev blog with "top proposals in Assembly Hall and what has come of them" would be fantastic.
EDIT: Supporting fixing them as well. Obviously.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.05.24 18:22:00 -
[27]
to be honest, after going over the old expansion feature list on the right you almost need to start over and list every featuer and check off the ones not realy implimented
*.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.* *.*
a (Long) Guide to Pi
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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.24 18:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ti'anla
Edited by: Ti''anla on 24/05/2010 12:26:52
There are only a limited number of people you can throw at a problem before they start getting in each-others way; I've no interest in supporting a proposition will either result in a 'too many cooks' situation or leave the development teams (many of whom have been working separately from core development on expansions for multiple years now, such as Incarna) sitting on their thumbs.
CCP run fixes as they can, and while they might not prioritise them quite as much as possible, they do so while focussing on the 'dream' Eve represents and while avoiding the issues come with too Much focus. Plus, as someone else said, it's impossible to fix everything in one go - and in my opinion, ever. This is an MMORPG, the most unstable, bug-liable genre of videogame in existence; no MMO will ever be completely 'fixed' unless it's become completely stagnant.
Not everyone at CCP is trained to do code repairs and an 'expansion' dedicated to optimisation without any extra elements to work on (which is basically what you're asking for, because all the expansions thus far have had new stuff AND optimisations / fixes, Tyrannis especially so, and the last one was an attempt at a total rework to fix older issues) would just produce a mass of redundant artists and developers.
Quit whining. Sometimes I think CCP ought just claim to have most of their dev's focussed on optimisation with a few working on completing long-term projects - then go on as normal and watch as everyone whining about changing and adding stuff thinks they've got their way and shuts up, then fails to realise otherwise when the new 'expansion' comes out, playing up the fixes and playing down the additions.
Yes, there are issues to be fixed, but seriously, all these posts demanding a complete focus on fixing issues with no further development are just 'my stuff isn't fixed yet and I'm going to ignore all the evidence there are efforts to improve what's already there, so I'm going to yell about it until they stop doing other things too, thus making myself feel better'.
CCP and CSM, please, ignore this topic and keep on very much as you are.
I had a long and insightful post explaining how CCP has plenty of resources to fix problems. It also explained how the problems affect the vast majority of users.
But no, the stupid and unecessary forum security features ate it.. so I'm just going to say you're completely wrong.
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Kiri Serrensun
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Posted - 2010.05.24 18:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mkah Mvet
CCP *can't* not introduce something new. They have to introduce something new for the sake of marketing at least.
Technically, Dominion introduced nothing new for it's big feature (Sov revision), only a revised way of doing something already in place. It's all in how you market it.
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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.24 19:17:00 -
[30]
in fact looking at dominion, the only "new" things were:
1) 4 "navy" battleships
2) citadel cruise launchers
sov was reworked, and the rest was random stuff.
FBs didn't make it until 1.1
However no changes were made except to sov
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.24 19:23:00 -
[31]
This thread has become more about fixing pet peeves than unfinished content. As such, I want to make sure that everyone understands that your pet peeves aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things. Also, the comments like "Oh yeah just fix these 50 things I don't see why that's hard".... but each one of them probably has time estimates in the upper hundreds of man hours. And they may not parallelize well. Blah.
The forum atmosphere is getting pretty toxic, IMO. I think the primary cause of this is because the players feel like CCP is throwing unfinished content at us - and in that light I think the best thing they could do is delay the Tyrannis and Incarna expansions by 6 months each.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Kiri Serrensun
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Posted - 2010.05.25 14:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
This thread has become more about fixing pet peeves than unfinished content. As such, I want to make sure that everyone understands that your pet peeves aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things. Also, the comments like "Oh yeah just fix these 50 things I don't see why that's hard".... but each one of them probably has time estimates in the upper hundreds of man hours. And they may not parallelize well. Blah.
A big part of the frustration comes from the lack of communication. For example, solving My Pet Problem (so far as I know) would be simply changing some numbers in the DB in twenty minutes. Am I wrong, and would it actually involve days of dedicated work? I don't know this, so I see a simple change and an unaccountable silence. For the best example of this, see the supercarrier back-and-forth from last December. Why were the player-tested changes ditched and replaced with ones based on obviously faulty assumptions? Nobody knows. In the absence of information, you get frustration and hysteria.
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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.25 15:10:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Xtover on 25/05/2010 15:10:32
Originally by: Liang Nuren
This thread has become more about fixing pet peeves than unfinished content. As such, I want to make sure that everyone understands that your pet peeves aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things. Also, the comments like "Oh yeah just fix these 50 things I don't see why that's hard".... but each one of them probably has time estimates in the upper hundreds of man hours. And they may not parallelize well. Blah.
The forum atmosphere is getting pretty toxic, IMO. I think the primary cause of this is because the players feel like CCP is throwing unfinished content at us - and in that light I think the best thing they could do is delay the Tyrannis and Incarna expansions by 6 months each.
-Liang
I don't see how fixing asault frigates, balancing rockets, boosting hybrids (which you have taken a personal interest in), or boosting lowsec are pet peeves.
Fixing the changed dominion sov system affects tens of thousands, if not more.
Fixing Faction War affects a huge playerbase and a major part of the game.
These are not pet peevs Laing, these are former expansions that have been abondoned for the next shiny toy.
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sir gankalot
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:01:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
This thread has become more about fixing pet peeves than unfinished content. As such, I want to make sure that everyone understands that your pet peeves aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things.
-Liang
In the grand scheme of things, I think it says a lot about CCP that so many ppl have so many pet peeves, and it ain't something positive.
This game is one of the most bug infested pieces of software I've ever encountered. And that's just one 'pet peeve'....
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:32:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Malcanis on 25/05/2010 16:33:30
Originally by: Xtover
The CSM has been touted by CCP as a department right, with real imput to get a cohesive say from the playerbase. It's time to put that to the test.
This is a proposal in itself, to cover many proposals in this forum already. However the proposal is urging CCP that the next expansion be focused on improving current content instead of adding new content. That providing a sustaining environment is just as vital as adding to it.
Faction War needs help, badly.
Missions are 2 dimensional.
Lowsec is a vast wasteland.
There are network and connectivity issues (lag).
Many ships need balancing work done, such as rocket based and assault ships.
The dominion sov system needs tweaking.
This is a plea for CCP to focus on fixing the backlog of issues before the game becomes unplayable.
Supported. Since Incarna has been pushed back to 2011, let the next expansion be a "fix" expansion.
There is MORE than enough material that needs fixing to be actually usable to make for a huge expansion. We dont really need any more ships. We dont really need any more space (although I wouldn't say no if they decided to add a couple fo new NPC sov 0.0 regions). There is enough for any new player to do for years and years.
But let's see them just finish the projects they've started. COSMOS. Faction Warfare. Tech 3 ships. The corp management interface. Assault Frigates. And many, many more.
Edit: Since CCP like biblical-sounding expansion names, I propose that this expansion be called Redemption.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
This thread has become more about fixing pet peeves than unfinished content. As such, I want to make sure that everyone understands that your pet peeves aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things. Also, the comments like "Oh yeah just fix these 50 things I don't see why that's hard".... but each one of them probably has time estimates in the upper hundreds of man hours. And they may not parallelize well. Blah.
The forum atmosphere is getting pretty toxic, IMO. I think the primary cause of this is because the players feel like CCP is throwing unfinished content at us - and in that light I think the best thing they could do is delay the Tyrannis and Incarna expansions by 6 months each.
-Liang
Tyrannis - such as it is - is here. Incarna has already been pushed back, well let me see now, is it 3 years? 4? There is a "gap" this winter in which a "fix expansion" could usefully be fitted.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.25 16:55:00 -
[37]
Some of you may have clicked this link to the patch notes and been surprised to find that half the page is devoted to fixes. When you read through the "changes" section, you will also notice that a lot of "changes" are what many might call "fixes" instead.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say CCP has put the majority of man hours in the previous patch and this upcoming one into fixing existing stuff. Reading through the patch notes, the obvious problems haven't been addressed, but it looks like a lot of fairly major issues are being fixed (being able to create two alliances at the same time?). I am kind of sad that I can't bounce around the inside of stations anymore when undocking. It was mildly amusing.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:09:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Malcanis on 25/05/2010 17:09:20
Originally by: Bagehi
Some of you may have clicked this link to the patch notes and been surprised to find that half the page is devoted to fixes. When you read through the "changes" section, you will also notice that a lot of "changes" are what many might call "fixes" instead.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say CCP has put the majority of man hours in the previous patch and this upcoming one into fixing existing stuff. Reading through the patch notes, the obvious problems haven't been addressed, but it looks like a lot of fairly major issues are being fixed (being able to create two alliances at the same time?). I am kind of sad that I can't bounce around the inside of stations anymore when undocking. It was mildly amusing.
Every patch has a rack of fixes, but a lot of them are on the order of "corrected spelling error in the description of dread guristas small smartbomb" or some such.
What we want is a patch that is focused on fixing bugs and finishing existing content. Faction warfare and COSMOS aren't that buggy, as such, they're just terribly incomplete. There is a vast amount of unrealised potential in the existing content that could be expressed before more unfinished ideas are jammed in.
5 complete, coherent, and deep gameplay concepts are worth 50 of the other kind.
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Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
Gung-Ho
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:13:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Malcanis
Every patch has a rack of fixes, but a lot of them are on the order of "corrected spelling error in the description of dread guristas small smartbomb" or some such.
What we want is a patch that is focused on fixing bugs and finishing existing content. Faction warfare and COSMOS aren't that buggy, as such, they're just terribly incomplete. There is a vast amount of unrealised potential in the existing content that could be expressed before more unfinished ideas are jammed in.
5 complete, coherent, and deep gameplay concepts are worth 50 of the other kind.
Hear hear!
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:19:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Malcanis
What we want is a patch that is focused on fixing bugs and finishing existing content. Faction warfare and COSMOS aren't that buggy, as such, they're just terribly incomplete. There is a vast amount of unrealised potential in the existing content that could be expressed before more unfinished ideas are jammed in.
5 complete, coherent, and deep gameplay concepts are worth 50 of the other kind.
Indeed. I believe planetary interaction is supposed to be part of sov/faction warfare. So, in a way, you might be jumping the gun before the entirety of the solution has been put into place. The big issue is the lack of communication from CCP on the issues that keep being raised. Occasionally, we hear "that's a great idea" (i.e. the dead horse) but a "we hope to get to that in xyz patch" is what people want to hear.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.25 17:54:00 -
[41]
Just so that people are clear on this. I want Incarna. I believe that PI is necessary and useful for Dust-514, which I also want.
But I also want the updates, fixes and completion of existing content that we were already promised:
Dominion lag: 7 months
5th subsystem for T3: a year
Faction warfare: two years
Stations in W-space: a year
Assault frigates: God knows - longer than I've been playing.
COSMOS: Again, longer than I've been playing
Mission fix: Yet another longer than I have been playing. For the love of god, heal this bleeding wound in your gameplay CCP.
The list goes on, but with what I have listed above there is more than enough for an absolutely epic expansion.
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Gneeznow
Ship spinners inc
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Posted - 2010.05.25 18:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: chatgris
Wearily supporting this, doubt CCP has any interest in it.
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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.25 19:07:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xtover on 25/05/2010 19:08:47
Originally by: Bagehi
Some of you may have clicked this link to the patch notes and been surprised to find that half the page is devoted to fixes. When you read through the "changes" section, you will also notice that a lot of "changes" are what many might call "fixes" instead.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say CCP has put the majority of man hours in the previous patch and this upcoming one into fixing existing stuff. Reading through the patch notes, the obvious problems haven't been addressed, but it looks like a lot of fairly major issues are being fixed (being able to create two alliances at the same time?). I am kind of sad that I can't bounce around the inside of stations anymore when undocking. It was mildly amusing.
out of your patch note link:
NONE are related to ship balancing
NONE are related to fixing the new sov warfare problems
NONE are related to Faction War
NONE of them fix COSMOS agents
NONE of them are an improvement on the UI design
NONE of those fix completely broken ships
NONE relate to a MISSING SUBSYSTEM of a ship
Thank you for quoting the patch notes that completely supports this thread. It's better than any "thumbs up" you can give.
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Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.25 19:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Xtover
out of your patch note link:
NONE are related to ship balancing
NONE are related to fixing the new sov warfare problems
NONE are related to Faction War
NONE of them fix COSMOS agents
NONE of them are an improvement on the UI design
NONE of those fix completely broken ships
NONE relate to a MISSING SUBSYSTEM of a ship
Thank you for quoting the patch notes that completely supports this thread. It's better than any "thumbs up" you can give.
That's pretty narrow view of the game, really. Complaining about a virtually unused and unknown feature (COSMOS) that won't actually help 99.5% of the people that play the game? I'd rather have things like fleet lag fixed tbqfh. 
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.25 22:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Xtover
out of your patch note link:
NONE are related to ship balancing
NONE are related to fixing the new sov warfare problems
NONE are related to Faction War
NONE of them fix COSMOS agents
NONE of them are an improvement on the UI design
NONE of those fix completely broken ships
NONE relate to a MISSING SUBSYSTEM of a ship
Thank you for quoting the patch notes that completely supports this thread. It's better than any "thumbs up" you can give.
That's pretty narrow view of the game, really. Complaining about a virtually unused and unknown feature (COSMOS) that won't actually help 99.5% of the people that play the game? I'd rather have things like fleet lag fixed tbqfh.
-Liang
narrow is avoiding 95% of what you quoted. Cosmos are underused because they are unfinished.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.05.25 22:57:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Malcanis
Stations in W-space: a year
When did CCP say they'd introduce stations in w-space? The official line was along the lines of, "you only have what you take in with you - no sov, no moon mining."
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
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Posted - 2010.05.26 00:28:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Xtover
out of your patch note link:
NONE are related to ship balancing
NONE are related to fixing the new sov warfare problems
NONE are related to Faction War
NONE of them fix COSMOS agents
NONE of them are an improvement on the UI design
NONE of those fix completely broken ships
NONE relate to a MISSING SUBSYSTEM of a ship
Thank you for quoting the patch notes that completely supports this thread. It's better than any "thumbs up" you can give.
That's pretty narrow view of the game, really. Complaining about a virtually unused and unknown feature (COSMOS) that won't actually help 99.5% of the people that play the game? I'd rather have things like fleet lag fixed tbqfh.
-Liang
narrow is avoiding 95% of what you quoted. Cosmos are underused because they are unfinished.
Yes, most people are critically affected by:
- A missing subsystem
- COSMOS agents
- Faction Warfare (most people live in highsec)
- The Sov Warfare problems (most people live in highsec)
- Broken ships that aren't used... and yet ship/weapon balance is still pretty damn good.
So that leaves the UI design? Yeah sure - redesign the UI... but in reality this is probably a big enough thing to be its own expansion.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
van Uber
Swedish Aerospace Inc
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Posted - 2010.05.26 09:22:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Xtover
out of your patch note link:
NONE are related to ship balancing
NONE are related to fixing the new sov warfare problems
NONE are related to Faction War
NONE of them fix COSMOS agents
NONE of them are an improvement on the UI design
NONE of those fix completely broken ships
NONE relate to a MISSING SUBSYSTEM of a ship
Thank you for quoting the patch notes that completely supports this thread. It's better than any "thumbs up" you can give.
That's pretty narrow view of the game, really. Complaining about a virtually unused and unknown feature (COSMOS) that won't actually help 99.5% of the people that play the game? I'd rather have things like fleet lag fixed tbqfh.
-Liang
narrow is avoiding 95% of what you quoted. Cosmos are underused because they are unfinished.
Yes, most people are critically affected by:
- A missing subsystem
- COSMOS agents
- Faction Warfare (most people live in highsec)
- The Sov Warfare problems (most people live in highsec)
- Broken ships that aren't used... and yet ship/weapon balance is still pretty damn good.
So that leaves the UI design? Yeah sure - redesign the UI... but in reality this is probably a big enough thing to be its own expansion.
-Liang
So as long as few people use it, a feature does not have to be finished or polished? Isn't that a very backwards way of determining the usefulness of a feature? Or are you saying that even if COSMOS or FW were to be complete it would not make an impact on the majority of players?
Balance is pretty good when it comes to the ships that are actually used. In a game that heavily rely on non consensual pvp, all ships should be ok to use and not as today, where a portion is broken beyond comparability.
.
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Miyamoto Isoruku
The Phoenix Enclave
Astro Lux Aedificatiae
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Posted - 2010.05.26 09:54:00 -
[49]
I've got an even better idea than using the winter patch to finish unfinished content: stop all future expansions until the content in existing expansions is finished and major bugs fixed.
To wit:
Fix lag (again).
Finish COSMOS, Faction Warfare, Dominion, Tyrannis add the missing subsystem.
Rebalance rails, rockets, assault frigates, EWAR frigs, and largely unused ships (Bellicose, anyone?)
Fix station games
Fully implement epic mission arcs
Once all this is done, expansions should focus on the following:
Making missions and PVE actually enjoyable, if this is even possible.
Making lowsec worthwhile.
Completely redesign the UI. Literally, burn down the existing structure and start over from scratch. The new one should be modular and moddable.
Redesign POSes and make PI something more interesting than POSes on planets.
Until these problems are fixed, we simply do not need any further new content, especially the kind of half-finished junk that CCP has been foisting on us for years.
I have said before, and will say again: CCP runs the risk of being annihilated should another company with sounder design, development, and management methodology and a commitment to high quality decide to implement an EVE-style PVP sandbox.
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Anastasia DC
Damage Clan
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Posted - 2010.05.26 10:24:00 -
[50]
 
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Ankhesentapemkah
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Posted - 2010.05.26 11:04:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 26/05/2010 11:07:29
This is the main problem I see with EVE.
Since Dominion, EVE has been standing still. CCP starts massive projects, but never completes any. While there is no doubt that shiny trailers and bold plans draw in new players and cause current players to subscribe a few more months, it is not a strategy that works in the long run. A collapse will occur sooner or later.
Doom and gloom? Why?
The problems are actually quite comparable to those in the financial world. CCP announces features, launches them as a framework, and then promises to expand on them. Nothing wrong there... However, smart (financial) managers realized something. The subscriber base grows with every new expansion. But when releasing an expansion that contains only fixes and no new content, they do not gain any subscribers nor much kudos from the players. Thus, why work on old content, especially if it has been recently introduced in a shabby state, when you can hype the new big feature?
There are two major problems with this line of thought.
The first one is debt. By introducing an unfinished expansion and promising to have devs remain on this feature, CCP basically builds debt. It is an IOU-for-these-shiny-features. They have to pay monthly manhours to complete the features, and since there will be unforseen issues, there will be interest as well. CCP continuously miscalculates the monthly pay-off in devtime. Thus, progress is slower than usual, and player interest in the new shiny feature starts dropping after a few months. CCP's reaction: "Look, finishing this feature will not impact many players, this monthly devtime is not paying off! Lets re-assign these devs to do something more productive!" CCP defaults on the debt and the feature remains in a broken state. Worse than that: Defaulting costs CCP's credit rating. By defaulting, player goodwill is lost, and the next time, less players are going to accept an IOU.
The second one is that EVE is currently a big player in the space MMO market. It is quite unique and revolutionary. But will it remain so if expansion continue to be released as they are? Unfinished features do not count towards the game. This means that from Empyrean Age onwards, EVE has practically been standing still. CCPs business model only works where they are the sole player in their niche. Will CCP's business model still work when there are four competitors in their pond (The Old Republic, Jumpgate Evolution, Black Prophecy, Infinity)? Will EVE still be as revolutionary then? Will EVE's unique selling points outweigh all its flaws?
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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:43:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Xtover
out of your patch note link:
NONE are related to ship balancing
NONE are related to fixing the new sov warfare problems
NONE are related to Faction War
NONE of them fix COSMOS agents
NONE of them are an improvement on the UI design
NONE of those fix completely broken ships
NONE relate to a MISSING SUBSYSTEM of a ship
Thank you for quoting the patch notes that completely supports this thread. It's better than any "thumbs up" you can give.
That's pretty narrow view of the game, really. Complaining about a virtually unused and unknown feature (COSMOS) that won't actually help 99.5% of the people that play the game? I'd rather have things like fleet lag fixed tbqfh.
-Liang
narrow is avoiding 95% of what you quoted. Cosmos are underused because they are unfinished.
Yes, most people are critically affected by:
- A missing subsystem
- COSMOS agents
- Faction Warfare (most people live in highsec)
- The Sov Warfare problems (most people live in highsec)
- Broken ships that aren't used... and yet ship/weapon balance is still pretty damn good.
So that leaves the UI design? Yeah sure - redesign the UI... but in reality this is probably a big enough thing to be its own expansion.
-Liang
I would venture to guess that while most live in hisec, it's not a vast majority when you take alts out of the equation.
Many reasons why lowsec and nullsec are under populated are because the features designed to bring people out there are unfinished and need work.
That's like saying you're too sick to go see a doctor.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.05.26 13:35:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Bagehi on 26/05/2010 13:35:56
Originally by: Xtover
NONE are related to ship balancing
NONE are related to fixing the new sov warfare problems
NONE are related to Faction War
NONE of them fix COSMOS agents
NONE of them are an improvement on the UI design
NONE of those fix completely broken ships
NONE relate to a MISSING SUBSYSTEM of a ship
"Need For Speed" is CCP's catch-all for fixes to the catch-all term players use: "lag" (because lag is not the correct term for 90% of the problems players term lag).
The fixes for the UI is a wall of text. They have made a lot of fixes. It is still broken, but they're getting closer.
Faction/Sov warfare is screwy (better than it used to be, but still needs work), I believe PI is part of the fix towards this. So, you might say the centerpiece of this expansion is part of a giant fix for faction/sov warfare.
COSMOS agents? The low use of COSMOS missions is more due to their fixed position in low sec systems making them prime targets for pirates. I think this is by design.
What ships are "completely broken?" I can't think of a ship in the game right now that doesn't function fairly well in a role. Assault frigates are good mission runners when you want to grind standing (sure, that might not be what people want them to be used for, but they are great in that role). Destroyers work well for killing off incoming tacklers, this is why the other fleet will kill them early on (sure, everyone wants them to have more tank and various other things so they aren't a suicide ship). I can't think of any other ships that are bad enough to be called "broken" by players.
What is this "missing subsystem" nonsense? What part do you want to add to a T3? An I win button? T3 are dangerously close to already having that. I fly one and feel guilty about how easily it sidesteps even the most elaborate traps set to catch it.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Minnie miss
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Posted - 2010.05.26 13:54:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Malcanis
The list goes on, but with what I have listed above there is more than enough for an absolutely epic expansion.
Just one? Man, they could work for 2 years on this list and it would truly make EVE a better game.
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Xtover
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.05.26 14:04:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Xtover on 26/05/2010 14:05:07
Originally by: Bagehi
The fixes for the UI is a wall of text. They have made a lot of fixes. It is still broken, but they're getting closer.
It's already been said elsewhere from a good source the reason the UI is hardly changed is that the art department has put its foot down on the "look" of the UI and won't budge.
Quote:
Faction/Sov warfare is screwy (better than it used to be, but still needs work), I believe PI is part of the fix towards this. So, you might say the centerpiece of this expansion is part of a giant fix for faction/sov warfare.
Faction Warfare is pointless, even the LOLRPers are getting tired of it. PI is not meant to do anythin with FW, it's to substain Dusties and give reasons to fight.
Quote:
COSMOS agents? The low use of COSMOS missions is more due to their fixed position in low sec systems making them prime targets for pirates. I think this is by design.
They're few and far between, they are fixed, they are shallow, and overall most don't even bother.
Quote:
What ships are "completely broken?" I can't think of a ship in the game right now that doesn't function fairly well in a role. Assault frigates are good mission runners when you want to grind standing (sure, that might not be what people want them to be used for, but they are great in that role). Destroyers work well for killing off incoming tacklers, this is why the other fleet will kill them early on (sure, everyone wants them to have more tank and various other things so they aren't a suicide ship). I can't think of any other ships that are bad enough to be called "broken" by players.
What is this "missing subsystem" nonsense? What part do you want to add to a T3? An I win button? T3 are dangerously close to already having that. I fly one and feel guilty about how easily it sidesteps even the most elaborate traps set to catch it.
Any rocket ship with the exception of the heretic is essentially broken because of the weapons. The Hawk and Vengence are completely broken as they have no actual useful bonuses which makes them almost as broken as Black ops... which are broken. Most black ops are fitted with the following:
improved cloak
covert cyno
jump portal
cargo expanders
That's all they are good for, a pig.
Ships that are broken? Caldari rail platforms, Blaster setups on gallente ships, the Hel, Nid, pilgrim, deimos, and crow to name a few.
On to your T3 comment... T3 in many setups are overpowered. That is a balance issue that shows that more work needs to be done to improve them.
Just because a ship isn't useless does not mean they're good. Part of devoting time to ship balancing also involves looking into nerfs.
The 5th subsystem was promised by CCP the entire time. And if BALANCED than it isn't like it makes it more overpowered... they just need to adjust the drawbacks.
oh, and the Legion is nowhere near overpowered.
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Xianthar
STK Scientific
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:05:00 -
[56]
1)Fix the lag
2)Fix the lag
3)Fix the lag
repeat 500 more times
N)Revisit ship balancing so there aren't so many useless ships for example anything that uses rockets or blasters
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.05.29 18:42:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Malcanis
Stations in W-space: a year
When did CCP say they'd introduce stations in w-space? The official line was along the lines of, "you only have what you take in with you - no sov, no moon mining."
They all but stated that stations were there to be found.
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Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.05.30 13:52:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Bagehi
Edited by: Bagehi on 26/05/2010 13:35:56
"Need For Speed" is CCP's catch-all for fixes to the catch-all term players use: "lag" (because lag is not the correct term for 90% of the problems players term lag).
Right, Lag specifically refers to a high ping latency. Not on the fact that the server is unable to handle more than 700 players in a system at once so one group of them gets toasted before they even load grid. Call it what you like - in a game of this scale it's still an utterly unacceptable performance issue.
Quote:
The fixes for the UI is a wall of text. They have made a lot of fixes. It is still broken, but they're getting closer.
And I still find the old Softimage|3D interface to be friendlier and easier to use.
Quote:
Faction/Sov warfare is screwy (better than it used to be, but still needs work), I believe PI is part of the fix towards this. So, you might say the centerpiece of this expansion is part of a giant fix for faction/sov warfare.
Can't speak to that since I really can't be bothered with FW - I find it that appealing.
Quote:
COSMOS agents? The low use of COSMOS missions is more due to their fixed position in low sec systems making them prime targets for pirates. I think this is by design.
Then it's a ****ty design because taking a pve-fit ship into losec is tantamount to just self destructing it as soon as you undock.
Quote:
What ships are "completely broken?" I can't think of a ship in the game right now that doesn't function fairly well in a role.
Oh, where to begin?
Hyperion, Eos, Astarte, Brutix, Myrmidon
- all so broken that people shield tank them so they can even compete in their intended role, and they still fail horribly.
Oneiros, Exqueror, Maulus, Navitas, Lachesis, Arazu
- Never used except the last two which have some utility as heavy long range tacklers. Of course they have to be SHIELD TANKED as well in order to compete
Sin, Ares, Enyo, Kronos, Diemos, Maulus, Navitas,
- Are widely regarded as awful, awful ships with ******ed bonuses.
any destroyer you care to mention, Celestis, Eagle...that's just going through the market picking off ships I've rarely or never seen people fly. I'm sure there are many, many, many more.
the list just goes on and on of useless ships (mostly active armor tanking/hybrid ships, mind you) that have their biggest bonuses ignored because they are so badly designed or their specs have remained static whilst the rest of the game has evolved, or they were just given 'junk' bonuses to begin with in order to provide 'a wide range of tactical options' that just happen to be completely ineffective.
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Anna Headshot
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Posted - 2010.05.30 14:02:00 -
[59]
Ples yease!
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.05.30 14:34:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Malcanis
They all but stated that stations were there to be found.
The remains of sleeper stations, certainly: they're all over the place. Capsuleers have been plundering them quite happily for some time.
Perhaps you could quote the article from CCP that you felt promised player-interactable stations?
[Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
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eliminator2
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Posted - 2010.05.30 16:49:00 -
[61]
my full support fix what is in eve before making a new part of eve
its ok adding new small stuf like a few more T3 ships or parts but make it so it is more for fixing what is dead in eve
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I met Eliminator1..... I chewed it up, and spat it out. Now, he is my minion.
I kill miners and mission runners people say, I call them target pra |
Quacka
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.05.30 18:07:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Quacka on 30/05/2010 18:07:35
I support this thread. although a lot more than what was mentioned needs fixing. Like the horrible UI.
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Vitamin B12
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Posted - 2010.06.01 20:49:00 -
[63]
!
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Corporations for Highsec pos anchoring. Only a fee of 75 Million ISK. *click* |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.01 23:11:00 -
[64]
Sadly, not supported.
Yes, of course I'd like all bugs fixed first; who wouldn't? But you got to look at the bigger picture. CCP simply has to bring out new expansions ever so often. If they don't, the game dies. Why? Because of the very simple economic principle that to stand still is to fall behind. I know people -- myself included, LOL -- kinda tend to think of people working at the marketing department as money-grubbing, single-minded folks. But the reality of any company is, that unless you can come up with new and refreshing ideas ever so often, and make progress, you will slowly wither and die.
Doesn't mean I think CCP shouldn't be spending more time on fixing outstanding issues. Diverting some personnel from Dust 514 back to EVE, for one, would be a good start, I think.
--
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grift nova
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Posted - 2010.06.02 02:26:00 -
[65]
Edited by: grift nova on 02/06/2010 02:27:19
supported, also i do believe ccp need to add more content from time to time but the bugs in game are overwhelming atm
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RAIZOR BLAIDS
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.06.02 04:44:00 -
[66]
I agree and Support this 167% :)
We need a Fix the sh*t patch. < patent pending
examples , probably being repeated but hear are a few:
Lag monster < not going there.theres no lag on sisi can we play there? :)
cyno' effect < seriously is this that hard, give us our eye candy
Ship balancing < we have to many ships that need tweaking bad *cough cruisers*
Low sec < this is a useless waist of space and L5 mission need to be mixed into empire again.
Alliance logos < I think were past this ccp ..lets get the logos in game.
Faction warfare < erm ,, yea ,, are you playing the game too ccp not just making it?
Worm holes < we got issues
Sov < Seems the same with more space mods to blob.
Address book folders < really ,Really, did we have to mess with that ?
This is just a taste
Let the next patch be about the players needs, real needs,real request that have been drowning in endless pools of trolled forums, petitions.
p.s and ambulation would be cool next ,I would forget about the whole complaint above........no ,no what am I saying...... Lets get this fix it patch for the players.
Thank yee
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4N631
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Posted - 2010.06.02 05:01:00 -
[67]
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Lord Cath
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Posted - 2010.06.02 10:45:00 -
[68]
Id rather have an expansion (even 2 for that matter) with no new content but a lot of old content completed and fixed !
__________________________________________________
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2010.06.02 11:40:00 -
[69]
Supporting this. Expand on the existing features before adding more new ones.
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Acid Sniper
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.06.02 19:42:00 -
[70]
"Patriotism isn't dying for your country, it's making the other poor dumb bast*rd die for his" ~ Gen Patton |
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Tyr Aeron
L0pht Systems
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Posted - 2010.06.02 21:37:00 -
[71]
Instead of starting ANOTHER thread that will only get a handfull of supporters and then fall by the way-side, why don't you all go to http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1327362 and join the already large number of people that have signed that one.
50 posts with 20-30 supporters isn't going to get anyone's attention, however, one thread, written clearly, intelligently, and by a respected, established player, already backed by the CSM, and signed by thousands will certainly get the attention of CCP.
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Grozen
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.06.05 04:18:00 -
[72]
as with the other topic anything that will fix lag i will support.
knowledge is power |
LoRDa RaMOs
LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
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Posted - 2010.06.05 18:02:00 -
[73]
One would think this kind of topic would get more support and attention.
I'm giving it full support, but there always will be lag, as always has been in EVE. Issues in EVE are ever present as well.
I long for Apocrypha, really stable expansion.
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Stupid McStupidson
Hoek Lyne and Sinker
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Posted - 2010.06.05 18:07:00 -
[74]
Please, please. Either cut back to one expansion per year, with 6 months devoted to bug fixes/existing content development. This, or significantly increase your staff, so that a large enough team can work on existing content development, re-balancing, and backlogged bugs.
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