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Why do I have to opt out of CCP giving away my information?

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Hecatonis	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:07:00 - [61] Edited by: Hecatonis on 24/05/2010 20:07:35 Originally by: Emperor Cheney Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 24/05/2010 19:53:52 Originally by: Hecatonis you might not like it, you might think it not relevant because it ruins your opportunity bich about something that you cant change. but its better then spewing the "they ave no right" BS. No one in this thread is saying "they have no right." You are arguing against nothing. really now? Originally by:* Memorya if im not mistaken, this also coud mean privacy breach ? Afterall it's your account/character and your only. ^nope its theirs Originally by: Emperor Cheney -massive breaches of privacy built into the model, with "opt-out" setting buried several levels deep into the interface. Double check! ^you said that one, you might want to edit it do you dont look like a tool Originally by: Desigre Well why not care? Now they just leak ingame contact, soon they leak your real country of origins, etc.... Its slipery road. ^looks like fear fear-mongering to me Originally by: Desigre And second thing is, ccp may claim ownership of ships, etc... ingame items. But they dont own my contacts. I own them. I developt them. ^well this person didnt read the EULA because its thiers as well Originally by: Dan O'Connor While that may be true, it's still a violation of privacy - as you pay money for the personality you embody in-game. ^ its not a violation, its their char. Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha They also don't own players' character names. What if someone made a sensitive name (no policy against that, as long as it's not report-able ie as swear word) that will lead to adverse - possibly RL - consequences because it was an alt never meant to be published out of EvE? With EvE Gate, search engines will immediately make everyone public, robots.txt being present or not. ^read the EULA, they own it all Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha There is a law that in my continent prohibits certain behaviors. ^they dont live where this person lives Originally by: Zora'e It needs to be said once again. NOBODY should have access to my lists. Period. Regardless of standing. Or is that a hard concept to understand? ^its not your, you agreed to it Originally by: Ghoest CCP doesnt pay our subscriptions. ^nope, but its still their info really no one is saying that? try again little d*ck cheney. you have even taken part in it. its not your privacy, its their info, and if you dont like the "taste" then leave, but cna i have your stuff?
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:08:00 - [62] Opt-Out is disrespectful of the players who don't wish to use this item. Also, imho - there will be massive meta-gaming associated with this very quickly. I can think of several useful ways to use corp/alliance wide data bases. While this has been somewhat possible before, Eve-gate + the number of morons who have or will put everyone that has ever spoken to them at +5(+) will make for some interesting ganks. I personally don't think I'll be using it, and it bothers me that I have to modify the standings instead of not having to bother with it at all... ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:19:00 - [63] the only person who is claiming to own anything they don't own is Desigre. So, I missed that one, good call. Complaining of a privacy breach is in no way a claim of legal ownership. I use gmail. Gmail "owns" everything I email. But would you agree that gmail posting my emails publicly without my consent is a privacy breach? (It is) You are, still, tilting at windmills. And with enthusiasm.
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:30:00 - [64] Originally by: Hecatonis Originally by: EULA section 8 paragraph A Except for certain information in your Account (discussed below), all transmissions by you to the System are not private. You acknowledge and agree that you have no expectation of privacy regarding communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-Game messaging, during chat, or in chat rooms. CCP representatives may monitor communications made by or received from you. You should not provide private information to any other player in the Game. CCP shall not be responsible for the consequences of any such disclosure by you They have to write it that way so that they can monitor communications and communication logs so people can't moan about breaking privacy laws. But doubt they had sharing character information without the players consent in mind. Which is why you can opt out. Only thing they should have done is to make the default private which would have saved people from having to change standing.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:34:00 - [65] Quote: Also, imho - there will be massive meta-gaming associated with this very quickly. I can think of several useful ways to use corp/alliance wide data bases. With respect, name one that can't be done just as easily (if not more so) right now if someone wants to go to the bother. You can find far more information about any pilot, corp or alliance in this game spending 5 minutes on BattleClinic than you could hope to glean sifting through someones shared contact list. I'll give you access to my contacts/standings list if you really, really feel the need to spend a few hours trying to figure out why those people are in there (hint: Most of them are people I like to kill). ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Hecatonis	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:35:00 - [66] Originally by: Emperor Cheney the only person who is claiming to own anything they don't own is Desigre. So, I missed that one, good call. Complaining of a privacy breach is in no way a claim of legal ownership. I use gmail. Gmail "owns" everything I email. But would you agree that gmail posting my emails publicly without my consent is a privacy breach? (It is) You are, still, tilting at windmills. And with enthusiasm. well now that you are trying to have a civil convo with me, instead of calling me an idiot i will answer your question with civility. yes that would be bad, i myself do not use gmail hotmail, or anything like that for my real email. i am a civil engineer the info i email is high sensitive and i spend more time dealing with privacy then you would think. do i think its a breach? no, by setting someone's standings above 5 you are saying they are a trusted therefore there shoudn't be a problem. worried about people seeing your contact list? why? i have people on my watch list in there just as much as i have friends, poeple that have helped me, people that have bothered me. its for intel, if someone gets those names it will have no context to them. all it would mean is that those people have done good or ill to me at some point. i also dont set my standing for anyone. eve gate does not bother me in any way. and all you need to do is click a couple times and set your privacy high, problem solved
SirRalph	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:36:00 - [67] Originally by: Hecatonis read the EULA CCP owns your account, you pay them to let you play their account, if you dont like it quit CCP owns your character you pay them to let you control their toon, if you dont like it quit CCP owns your ships you pay them to let you fly their ships, if you dont like it quit CCP owns your ISK, you pay them to spend their ISK, if you dont like it quit QFT
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:42:00 - [68] One other thing I found interesting is that anyone with a 10 standing can rightly access any of your cans (not lockable ones ofc).
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:49:00 - [69] Where and how do I opt out? Delenda est achura.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:56:00 - [70] Originally by: Wendat Huron Where and how do I opt out? Not sure if you can turn off EVEGate itself Apply \| CBSN Lounge
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 20:59:00 - [71] Originally by: Wendat Huron Where and how do I opt out? You have to wait for it to be in-game before you can opt out. The article is in - Eve news - Newsletters - Newsletter Tyrannis edition. It's worth a read. Delayed answer due to: Time Flux Detected - you are going too fast! wait 5 minutes and try again. Strange never be accussed of going too fast before
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:13:00 - [72] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Wendat Huron Where and how do I opt out? Not sure if you can turn off EVEGate itself That's a good point actually, you can stop a +10 from seeing your profile's full contact list, Profile's mutual contacts and Broadcast log settings but can you stop them from legally taking your stuff.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:15:00 - [73] Originally by: Jo Ka Originally by: Wendat Huron Where and how do I opt out? You have to wait for it to be in-game before you can opt out. In the meantime, you can make sure no-one is et to +10 (or, as I understand it, anything above +5). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Jo Ka Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Wendat Huron Where and how do I opt out? Not sure if you can turn off EVEGate itself That's a good point actually, you can stop a +10 from seeing your profile's full contact list, Profile's mutual contacts and Broadcast log settings but can you stop them from legally taking your stuff. Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. Stop who from legally taking what stuff? ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:21:00 - [75] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Jo Ka Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Wendat Huron Where and how do I opt out? Not sure if you can turn off EVEGate itself That's a good point actually, you can stop a +10 from seeing your profile's full contact list, Profile's mutual contacts and Broadcast log settings but can you stop them from legally taking your stuff. Honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. Stop who from legally taking what stuff? Ref: post 68
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:22:00 - [76] Quote: With respect, name one that can't be done just as easily (if not more so) right now if someone wants to go to the bother. You can find far more information about any pilot, corp or alliance in this game spending 5 minutes on BattleClinic than you could hope to glean sifting through someones shared contact list. Looking at Battleclinic, how would you easily spot some 0.0 player's missioning alt (flying L4 deadspace fit BS) or JF alt? Because with EvE Gate it'll be very possible, all it takes is a delay of the affected guy to disable the info sharing option. You would not believe how many have expensive ship alts that set standings years ago (possibly when being in another 0.0 alliance) and that will forget to check every alt of every account. Or - more probably - just never being told about this whole privacy change. Only a meager minority uses the forum. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:33:00 - [77] Originally by: Jo Ka One other thing I found interesting is that anyone with a 10 standing can rightly access any of your cans (not lockable ones ofc). Please don't be real... please don't be real... please don't be real... Apply \| CBSN Lounge
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:34:00 - [78] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: With respect, name one that can't be done just as easily (if not more so) right now if someone wants to go to the bother. You can find far more information about any pilot, corp or alliance in this game spending 5 minutes on BattleClinic than you could hope to glean sifting through someones shared contact list. Looking at Battleclinic, how would you easily spot some 0.0 player's missioning alt (flying L4 deadspace fit BS) or JF alt? Because with EvE Gate it'll be very possible, all it takes is a delay of the affected guy to disable the info sharing option. You would not believe how many have expensive ship alts that set standings years ago (possibly when being in another 0.0 alliance) and that will forget to check every alt of every account. Or - more probably - just never being told about this whole privacy change. Only a meager minority uses the forum. And how would you determine who my missioning alt is from my contact list? Or my JF alt? What sets those two apart from all of the other people in my contact list? Nothing. And Jo Ka, I saw the post you referenced. I still have no idea what you are talking about. EVE Gate does nothing that I am aware of to give people with +10 standings more access to your cans than they already had. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Jo Ka	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:48:00 - [79] It's in the Dev Blog - standings and Eve Gate: the way forward. Paragraph entitled : What do my personal standings do in game? Which states : Anyone who you've set to excellent standings has free add/remove access to your jet-cans.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:50:00 - [80] Originally by: Jo Ka Which states : Anyone who you've set to excellent standings has free add/remove access to your jet-cans. àsame as always. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.24 21:58:00 - [81] Originally by: Jo Ka It's in the Dev Blog - standings and Eve Gate: the way forward. Paragraph entitled : What do my personal standings do in game? Which states : Anyone who you've set to excellent standings has free add/remove access to your jet-cans. So I can opt-out of this service yes? I wonder if that will still affect these things like access to jetcans etc Apply \| CBSN Lounge
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.24 22:01:00 - [82] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 24/05/2010 22:06:00 Quote: And how would you determine who my missioning alt is from my contact list? Or my JF alt? What sets those two apart from all of the other people in my contact list? This usually happens because thru the years players had to adapt to the "limited" (let's be polite) granularity of friendships you can set between individuals (expecially alts) or small corps / POS / labs owners vs larger alliances and other corps. This makes so that people set each other blue in order not to kill friends or in order to have friends not insta-popped by POS guns and much more. Since there was little difference between +5 and +10, many just turned the slider all the way up. Now, if there was a feature to check all of the characters in all of the accounts for affected characters or everyone at least got a warning, everything would be easy to migrate. But no, WE will know, 1000 people out of 300k subs. The others will return back to the game just to find: - their parked supercaps asploded because they got moved into easy probe-able range. - their alts known by everyone. I dare say it's not the BEST way to entice a returning player to resub. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.24 22:02:00 - [83] Originally by: Dan O'Connor So I can opt-out of this service yes? I wonder if that will still affect these things like access to jetcans etc You can "opt out" of the kind of EVE Gate information that will be automatically accessible to other players: things like contacts and the "broadcast log," which is set to "All +10:s" by default. You can change that so that no-one has access to it. All the old in-game effects of standings, such as jetcan/wreck access, are not affected and there is no setting for it from what I've seen. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.05.24 22:07:00 - [84] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Dan O'Connor So I can opt-out of this service yes? I wonder if that will still affect these things like access to jetcans etc You can "opt out" of the kind of EVE Gate information that will be automatically accessible to other players: things like contacts and the "broadcast log," which is set to "All +10:s" by default. You can change that so that no-one has access to it. Arigatou. Apply \| CBSN Lounge
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.05.24 22:36:00 - [85] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Jo Ka One other thing I found interesting is that anyone with a 10 standing can rightly access any of your cans (not lockable ones ofc). Please don't be real... please don't be real... please don't be real... That's the way it currently works in-game, why would they change it? [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.24 22:47:00 - [86] Edited by: Tippia on 24/05/2010 22:47:51 Originally by: Mara Rinn That's the way it currently works in-game, why would they change it? Tbh, my guess is that a lot of the complaints about EVE Gate are down to people not knowing or understanding what standing does, and what information is already freely available right now. The fact that the whole system has been given a once-over and has been explained all at once has suddenly made them aware of these things and now they attribute everything "new" (which also includes things they didn't know yet, but which has been around since forever) to the roll-out of EVE Gate. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Elder Man Gallente ATRISC	Posted - 2010.05.24 23:38:00 - [87] Edited by: Elder Man on 24/05/2010 23:42:26 Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 24/05/2010 22:47:51 Originally by: Mara Rinn That's the way it currently works in-game, why would they change it? Tbh, my guess is that a lot of the complaints about EVE Gate are down to people not knowing or understanding what standing does, and what information is already freely available right now. The fact that the whole system has been given a once-over and has been explained all at once has suddenly made them aware of these things and now they attribute everything "new" (which also includes things they didn't know yet, but which has been around since forever) to the roll-out of EVE Gate. No, the information people are complaining about is not currently freely available to +10 standings or contacts. I'll remove my contacts lists, see if I can find all my +10's and make the change until I can use the opt out option. Pain in the ass, but I see no other way out of this. I just hope I can find all of them, including those who have left the game. Elder Man
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.05.25 00:36:00 - [88] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/05/2010 00:39:31 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 24/05/2010 22:06:00 Quote: And how would you determine who my missioning alt is from my contact list? Or my JF alt? What sets those two apart from all of the other people in my contact list? This usually happens because thru the years players had to adapt to the "limited" (let's be polite) granularity of friendships you can set between individuals (expecially alts) or small corps / POS / labs owners vs larger alliances and other corps. This makes so that people set each other blue in order not to kill friends or in order to have friends not insta-popped by POS guns and much more. Since there was little difference between +5 and +10, many just turned the slider all the way up. Now, if there was a feature to check all of the characters in all of the accounts for affected characters or everyone at least got a warning, everything would be easy to migrate. But no, WE will know, 1000 people out of 300k subs. The others will return back to the game just to find: - their parked supercaps asploded because they got moved into easy probe-able range. - their alts known by everyone. I dare say it's not the BEST way to entice a returning player to resub. Errr, you still haven't answered my question. I think everyone here is well aware of why people set other people blue, but how "exactly" is that going to help you determine who my alts are. Tell you what, I'll set you +10. You look over the information that is shared and then you tell me who my alts are. Take a few weeks to track them down with an agent, catch them online, fly to where they are, and monitor them for a few days to see what ships they tend to fly. Then when you are all done, you can come back to me and give your best guess. Will you guess correctly? Probably not. Worth your time? Depends on your level of obsession. Are there better ways to try and find out? Definitely. Now I would do the same to you, but you know what? I can't. You don't have me set +10. Hmmm, perhaps you only set people you trust to +10. I could always infiltrate an alt into your corp, but then I could find out the same information by simply listening on TS and observing you for a day or so. Much, much easier. No, if I want to hurt someone, currently I can check their ships and favorite fittings on any comprehensive kill board. I'll fit to kill it and proceed to do so... repeatedly. Takes a few minutes and is far more satisfying. I'm afraid you are creating a tempest in a teacup. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.

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