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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.26 22:08:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Grozen on 26/05/2010 22:12:49 Edited by: Grozen on 26/05/2010 22:11:35
I couldn't help but notice that laboratories, sov structures,towers, and cap maint bay are one of the most expensive to build(in order of cheapest to most expensive).Taking in mind that not many people like PI try to trow in some speculative guess about their new PLAYER made price.
My guess:
Labs: 100-120m
Adv labs: 200-250m
Sov structures: 350-450m
Large Towers: 400-500m
capital maint bay: 500-600m
Have fun speculating ps. holding/taking/defending sov just got a lot more expensive. knowledge is power |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.05.26 22:22:00 -
[2]
Been looking at them and it appears you can't research them.
Price could be anything at this point.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.26 22:31:00 -
[3]
Originally by: cosmoray Been looking at them and it appears you can't research them.
Gallente Control Towers have a 2 week 6 day per ME research time. I haven't checked the others, so it looks like you can research and copy them
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Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.26 23:02:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: cosmoray Been looking at them and it appears you can't research them.
Gallente Control Towers have a 2 week 6 day per ME research time. I haven't checked the others, so it looks like you can research and copy them
If they can be researched cost will go down in the long term but short term its going to be hell.If the PI stuffs are not supplied regularly trough the market then In any case a lot of the materials are big tiers. knowledge is power |
Xearal
Minmatar SOL Industries Kamikaze Project
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Posted - 2010.05.26 23:37:00 -
[5]
All the materials needed for making POS structures are the highest tier of PI production, meaning they take a ****TON of raw stuff to make. So only a corp that plans ahead and invests both in skills for max PI with several members, researchs the BPOs properly and gets the whole infrastructure to 'work' will be able to pull this off from A-Z. The logistics involved are a mindboggling hell. And that's not even thinking about making it as efficient as possible, just getting it done is hell.
I think that these items will probably be made by 'pure' industrialists, who buy the Tier 4 products off the market for construction, and/or supply their needs with a high end PI chain, working up from Tier 3+.
And it will take time for the whole lines of production to get into swing. People learning skills, beginning extraction of raw materials, producing T1, moving them from the planets to hangar storage, so next players can pick up and begin Tier 2 manufacture, they drop it back into hangars, so the Tier 3 people can get started, rinse, repeat, and finally the tier 4 products will start pouring into the corp hangar for production of POS structures.
Byt this time we'll be at least several weeks in swing, simply because of the havoc created witht he amounts required and delivered, which will be a nightmare to balance. EVENTUALLY it will lead to fully player made POS structures.. but for the market to stbilise after this is all in swing.. that will take even longer.
---------------------------------------- I want hollowpoint ammunition for my projectile turrets!
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Kell Braugh
Minute to Midnight
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Posted - 2010.05.26 23:42:00 -
[6]
... all the while competing with people who just buy them now at npc price...
Sounds like something i'll stay out of for now.
Also, sov structure bpos don't seem seeded, or is that just the crappy region i'm in...
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.05.26 23:54:00 -
[7]
Xearal has pretty much hit the nail on this.
I've already gotten couple of the POS BPO. Total research time with max skill is 11 days and 6 hours. This should give me enough time before producing starbase structures gets into full swing once PI material hits the market.
Store |
Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.27 00:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kell Braugh ... all the while competing with people who just buy them now at npc price...
Sounds like something i'll stay out of for now.
Also, sov structure bpos don't seem seeded, or is that just the crappy region i'm in...
sov structure bpos are seeded just look in different regions.As for buying bpos atm prices on all tier of planet goo is one big X.... knowledge is power |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.27 05:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Brock Nelson I've already gotten couple of the POS BPO. Total research time with max skill is 11 days and 6 hours. This should give me enough time before producing starbase structures gets into full swing once PI material hits the market.
1. Buy some "super speshul extra awesome cheap" POS structures from NPC orders 2. Reprocess said structures for all the "P4" PI creamy goodness two full weeks before PI even starts 3. Build some "super speshul extra awesome NPC expensive" POS structures 4. Sell on market below NPC price 5. ??? 6. PROFIT !
"5" is probably something like "hope CCP doesn't change stuff and/or doesn't revert any actions and/or does not punish you for doing it"
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.05.27 06:04:00 -
[10]
IMHO buying into bpo's for this just yet is premature. More than enough people have bought up a variety of structures, pre-patch, that supply is going to far exceed supply for a time. Granted I don't think it'll be a tractor beam BPO situation (those things still worth crap or what?) but it is not like POS structures were fly off the shelf items already.
Add in that fact that far too many people will go "OOOhhhh, new bpos - must have!" this is going to be far from some new market that can be leveraged properly. Mind you, I might pick them up at some point (Ooooh, new bpos - must have!) but not for any actual market or industrial purpose. Just to fill out my library.
Le sigh.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
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Noonesoski
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Posted - 2010.05.27 11:51:00 -
[11]
So, wouldn't it be a good time to buy those bpo's and start researching them so they are ready for when the stock runs out?
Just saying...
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Letrange
Minmatar Chaosstorm Corporation Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:52:00 -
[12]
Given the lag between now and when the PCCs hit the market, I suspect even large tower bpos will be researched to "perfect" before being used to build the first tower (AFTER the npc towers are pulled)
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.05.27 13:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Noonesoski So, wouldn't it be a good time to buy those bpo's and start researching them so they are ready for when the stock runs out?
Okay, this point doesn't seem to linger in the air long enough so I'll reiterate again. The true key to being a successful market type is to allow others to work for you. Don't get in their way, don't compete against them. Encourage them as much as you can while profiting from the next step of their efforts. Now understand that many people seem to think that they should be able, and are inherently capable, to do it all. This delusion encourages many people to try to be missioner, pvper, industrialist, researcher, and trader - all at the same time. As any one can tell you, and my tone as well, this is simply just not possible for any sustainable amount of time. Not Possible. So, as happened with the Orca, realize that A LOT of people will be buying these bpo's thinking to cash in large. A LOT of people are gravely mistaken. Your job is to be there to help them come to that realization. How? By waiting for the market to crash on them, and it will, and ease them out of their mistake - to your benefit. Then later on, as the market adjusts/matures/comes to its senses, capitalize on your gains from the as of yet to arrive market crash.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:11:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shar Tegral [justify]IMHO buying into bpo's for this just yet is premature. More than enough people have bought up a variety of structures, pre-patch, that supply is going to far exceed supply for a time. Granted I don't think it'll be a tractor beam BPO situation (those things still worth crap or what?) but it is not like POS structures were fly off the shelf items already.
I have to laugh at the tractor beam comment.
Before CCP's patch note announcement, I was already buying Tractor Beam BPOs and re listing on 'escrow' for considerable margin (as they were ridiculously cheap to start, and not listed in all regions). After the patch notes came out I continued, as at worst I would have lost something like 40 mil ISK. In the end, even after the patch change was discontinued I still kept selling them for 100x their NPC price, and made my first billions doing so. I had to keep fairly quiet about this at the time everyone was whining about the change not going ahead, so no one else worked out just how fast these were shifting for ridiculous profit despite that.
Not big money now, but was awesome for me at the time. Of course, maybe that was a reward for my activities not being patch-note related and having started prior to their release
Quote: So, as happened with the Orca, realize that A LOT of people will be buying these bpo's thinking to cash in large. A LOT of people are gravely mistaken. Your job is to be there to help them come to that realization. How? By waiting for the market to crash on them, and it will, and ease them out of their mistake - to your benefit.
I had guessed the Orca market would crash a lot faster, I bought 12 BPOs with the intention of selling all but 4 pretty much after the first 2 runs, I'm still working 6 BPOs how much later? They were paid for in the first couple of sales. Of course Orca BPOs aren't cheap, and they require lots of minerals and component BPs to get a production line rolling, they never had a pre-existing NPC supply to compete with and became immediately very useful in the new WH space.
I haven't looked into the PI stuff to make a judgement, but I assume the only people to make a long term good profit will be the ones who play it very smart or work out how to do it very efficiently like everything else in game.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.05.27 14:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lord Fitz I'm still working 6 BPOs how much later? They were paid for in the first couple of sales.
I did not mean to imply that everyone will fail. Not in the least however not everyone who buys in will get the same isk back out. (Think housing bubble.) >shrugs< While a lot of people are thinking about how to capitalize on the big rush I sit back thinking about how to relieve them of their burdens after the mad dash.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.05.27 16:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Lord Fitz I'm still working 6 BPOs how much later? They were paid for in the first couple of sales.
I did not mean to imply that everyone will fail. Not in the least however not everyone who buys in will get the same isk back out. (Think housing bubble.) >shrugs< While a lot of people are thinking about how to capitalize on the big rush I sit back thinking about how to relieve them of their burdens after the mad dash.
and you still had time to pat yourself on the back about it repeatedly
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2010.05.27 17:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tiberizzle and you still had time to pat yourself on the back about it repeatedly
<sigh> I don't need to mate. No one makes me more relevant nor gives me more positive feedback than my many trolls. Without you kind people I would simply be an old annoying has been speaking up when everyone else would rather he shut the hell up. Of course this post, and your own, is not forwarding this topic any. Imagine that.
Wealth, howsoever got, in Eve makes Lords of morons and gentlemen of thieves; Aptitude and intellect are needless here; 'Tis impudence and money that grants fame. |
Tiberizzle
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Posted - 2010.05.27 18:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Tiberizzle and you still had time to pat yourself on the back about it repeatedly
<sigh> I don't need to mate. No one makes me more relevant nor gives me more positive feedback than my many trolls. Without you kind people I would simply be an old annoying has been speaking up when everyone else would rather he shut the hell up. Of course this post, and your own, is not forwarding this topic any. Imagine that.
I'm sorry Papa Tegral, tell us the one about marketing again!
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
IMHO buying into bpo's for this just yet is premature. More than enough people have bought up a variety of structures, pre-patch, that supply is going to far exceed supply for a time. Granted I don't think it'll be a tractor beam BPO situation (those things still worth crap or what?) but it is not like POS structures were fly off the shelf items already.
Add in that fact that far too many people will go "OOOhhhh, new bpos - must have!" this is going to be far from some new market that can be leveraged properly. Mind you, I might pick them up at some point (Ooooh, new bpos - must have!) but not for any actual market or industrial purpose. Just to fill out my library.
Le sigh.
I think you're kind of jumping the gun, I didn't buy the blueprint with the intention of manufacturing the item. There will always be a demand for researched blueprint, no matter how much wasted isk is going to be spent.
Store | Navy BCU |
Grozen
Caldari Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:37:00 -
[20]
i revamped my first post because of the t4lulz. knowledge is power |
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.05.28 00:43:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Grozen i revamped my first post because of the P4-lulz.
Naive statement : But you just cut out one zero at the end, meatba... I mean, master... <brief pause> Realization : OH !
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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gfldex
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Posted - 2010.05.28 02:50:00 -
[22]
mobile_laboratory: ???ISK biofuels55200 precious_metals69600 oxidizing_compound88800 silicon88800 oxygen79200 biomass84000 industrial_fibers57600 plasmoids62400 chiral_structures100800 capital_construction_parts2 water89160 polytextiles780 bacteria96360 reactive_metals96360 proteins76800 ukomi_super_conductors54 electrolytes55200 toxic_metals76800 transcranial_microcontrollers36
Those are the amounts of processed materials for a POS lab. With base price of the lab as a base line we are looking at about 90isk for a single proccessed material. How much you get of a planet heavyly depends on where you are. It seams that sleeper space got the best planets (I did check only one system).
If I got the math right you could make the components for 2 labs every day with 2 chars.
IMHO the main bottleneck will be the rather limited space you have on a planet to store products. If you don't touch every planet each day you will see your production chain stalled rather quickly.
PI is as boring as you could make it _but_ very macro and SP friendly. Supply of basic components should be not much of a problem after a few days. If it's worth players time to power click on planets is a different matter.
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Jan VanRijkdom
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Posted - 2010.05.28 05:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Now understand that many people seem to think that they should be able, and are inherently capable, to do it all. This delusion encourages many people to try to be missioner, pvper, industrialist, researcher, and trader - all at the same time. As any one can tell you, and my tone as well, this is simply just not possible for any sustainable amount of time.
Not Possible.
Not possible? I've in fact been doing that for years my pompous and acrimonious friend, and I must say, it's quite enjoyable.
You see, I get bored easily, and like to have a variety of thing I can do reasonably well. Am I the best PVPer? Richest Trader? Mission W***e? Industrial King?
No.
Do I do them reasonably well, have fun doing them, and enjoy being able to change my activity on a whim?
Yes.
Im not sure who told you you can't have your cake and eat it too, but I do.
(And no need for comments regarding the inefficiency, I know it is, but this is a game, not a job. Thaaanks)
And please quit saying 'Le Sigh'.
nnnnot cool, or clever, or whatever it is you're going for with that, can't quite tell. Besides a signature cue for readers to roll eyes.
On the other hand it iiiiis quite annoying and sophomoric.
On topic though, I do think and agree that with the amount of POS towers bought up through npc order, the supply will be fine for quite some time.
And with all of the POS reproc going on, The PIers doing it the old fashioned way will be at a disadvantage to start, as regards the p4 mats, poor dears.
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