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NPC-purchased POS stuff reprocessing EVIL OPPORTUNITY

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Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:22:00 - [1] Its quite dangerous option imo cuz of 2 factors: 1.CCP might deem it exploit 2.0.0 space is rich of PI stuff even if theres not much industrialists in the big alliances i imagine it would not be long before major alliances begin dumping PI goo on the market aka crushing the pre-pi makers. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 13:49:00 - [2] Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 13:50:30 Sure sounds like nice profit on theory but since everything is NPC produced atm and you can buy truckload of it whats stoping everyone doing it minimizing the profit to bad lvls? Also I'm sure many have noticed that you need to have Adv planetology only on 1 character for all your planets guess why:P?Training the command centers so you can be able to use lvl 4 takes less then a week per char.Now imagine a guy with 8 accs and each of his 24chars having lvl 4com centers, and ability to drop them on 5planets. Combine this with the puny profits from t4 and i think you will get a very very ugly situation, T1 will actually cost more then t4 for few months.Because everyone will be looking to get out so he can cash his invesment. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 14:49:00 - [3] Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 14:52:12 Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 14:51:01 I fail to see how this invesment is justified.We're still quite far away from the major factor in this: removal of the npc orders.What are you going to do when they are removed and nobody buys your stuff for weeks?If i was a major alliance i'd do one very simple thing. I'd buy least 4-5months worth of sov structure, pos guns, tower, labs and i wouldn't worry about not having them.The only people who will need pos stuff are industrialist corps and the demand will be far less then the supply. In the meantime people would be undercutting each other trying to sell their tower on the market to brake it even.Whichever angle i look at it its a very risky investment. The real profit from PI won't hit the shelves until there has been 2months from the removal of the npc orders which is my own speculative opinion.So i recommend strong hold. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 15:06:00 - [4] Btw i just noticed this in the Tyrannis issues thread: Originally by: Steve ThomasDestroying mission structures drops PI materials such as Water, Oxygen and synthetic oil.Granted its a trivial ammount. By ccp oneiromancer: Could you please file a bug report and mention the mission name and agent name, please? Thank you. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 15:48:00 - [5] Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 15:50:54 Originally by: Xylopia Originally by: Marquis Zenas Edited by: Marquis Zenas on 27/05/2010 14:34:20 Originally by: Xylopia What modules do I need to grind? You can tell me fast. what are you looking at?! Send me 150 mil and I'll be able to assist Originally by: SencneS I still consider this something CCP neglected and don't want to be "punished" for it. With this level of public awareness, CCP might not likely come down hard on people who took some advantage. However, it looks like cheese on a mousetrap to me, tbh. Yea looks like the guy with the 90+ ravens that lost 3b+ due to insurance being nerfed. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 18:07:00 - [6] Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 18:09:12 There are ton of structures you can reprocess anyone brave enough to try the capital ship maint bay?Its only 900m looks like i'm heading to the test server. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 18:13:00 - [7] Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 18:13:38 The Pi item in question is wet mainframe isn't it knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 22:48:00 - [8] Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 22:53:44 Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 22:51:39 Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 22:48:49 The only way Tyrannis will have a normal start is if we tell everyone who has money how to lose it.So heres a hint examine the building reqs for tower.Now examine the recycle materials for Rapid equipment assembly array and if in doubt try to guess why 2.7k of them sold today about 24bil and 300m worth of stock. For those who are dumb recycle produce at planet 250% profit=zomg ccp what have you done I'm not going to guess how many ppl entered but once npc order bites the dust its going to be one hell a fight.Gallente towers for 100m? knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:07:00 - [9] Thx for the heads up CSJ defo looking to be the hot stuff atm with jesus fking 12.2k units sold=87b some deep pocket invesment here... I'm still wondering if this is going to be total market crash after everyone and his mother put towers/labs up for sale. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:13:00 - [10] So in theory we probably won't be able to see the true impact of this expansion for at least another 7months from now when the supply would probably start wearing down.Basically the richer just got richer if i had 100b atm i'd totally hold for year before i even think of building this. knowledge is power

Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:19:00 - [11] Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 23:20:07 Tbh i'm tempted like everyone else to poor some isk into this but the stuff i do is safe meaning i know that what i do won't get me in trouble and this.... just screams nerf me. I'd wait until june 7 before i decide cuz besides one reply to the big question that this is not deemed exploit yet isn't enough i have to see someone else make a post on the forums from the devs because if they do nerf it then that will be A LOT of PAIN for many wallets. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:32:00 - [12] Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 23:34:32 The only way to counter it would be to boost the production of tier 3 and 4 products by huge amounts. Meaning they could increase both extractor outputs and facilities outputs and building for example tier1 will make 1k of tier 2, t2 will make 500 of t3 and t3 about200 of t4 and it could destroy peoples wallets in a snap. So hell no i'm puting my cash into this yet. Other than that what cosmo said and i could also add they could also increase the npc price of the 3said cash cows to like 100m p/u but that's an after effect.My first theory is the only situation that will impact present amounts bought now. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:38:00 - [13] Originally by: mental maverick Quote: No, just change what REAA, cyno jammer, cyno generator array and moon miner process into. At the moment they will be very expensive to make, but at present are cheap to buy and reprocess (relatively). Wouldnt doing it that way let those who have allready bought and reprocessed to keep their stockpile. That wouldn't help making PI worth while for a long time if the stockpiles get to big before they nerf it...? Exactly that wouldn't help at all the only way to nerf it is the one i posted above.Presently Pi is not worth doing for anything else besides pos fuel and even that can be bought in fairly large amounts to keep them running for year before you even need to look for them. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:47:00 - [14] If they change the output of everything aka t1 makes 2k t2 and visa versa it will be hell for everyone involved.It has been 2days after deployment and this is like playing with fire.Are ccp that stupid to leave things as they are?and what makes you certain cosmo that they will not do anything besides preventing further abuse? knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.27 23:58:00 - [15] Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 00:04:01 Edited by: Grozen on 27/05/2010 23:59:43 I'm not saying i don't want free cash everyone does.But this could also be the first ever CCP rage on players that does direct big dmg aka wallet ****, ban and so on.I certainly don't wanna be in there IF it happens. There's first time for everything and somehow even as you say ccp revert mistakes after they happen this is not a small mistake. Even if a nerf comes in the next 5days people would have already bought close to trillion of PI stuff making PI useless not for year but at least for 3years ahead. Somehow i don't think they will leave the situation without taking severe measures if they care for their expansion as much as they say they do. Last i read they have separate team specially for PI and i can't imagine how important that is to them because PI is directly linked to DUST. In short: I'm scared. edit: CSJ volume bought just jumped by 7b Also whats stoping ccp from making t1=t4 and t4=t1? knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 00:13:00 - [16] Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 00:16:03 Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 00:14:25 Originally by: Professor Leech Edited by: Professor Leech on 28/05/2010 00:07:32 That's a lot of fear mongering for one post. How many freighter loads have you sent to jita? e: post got paged. I'm looking at you Grozen. Trust me none and i'm being honest and serious, also evil.....I filled a petition today under exploits for this to see if i can get an answer(and i did get 1 which was"your petition is filled in the wrong place wait while we redirect it and then nothing happened) and possibly destroy the already bought amounts of PI stuff. Yes i wanna hurt people if i was ccp dev you'd already be crying over your wallet, but i'm not so i'm still trying to bring their attention to the matter and if they say lol noob we don't care, well i have no reason then not to join the bandwagon with whatever i got spare in my wallet I'm not a big PI fan but this is giving unfair advantage to some people and destroying the expansion. edit: now let me feel your hate knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 00:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Professor Leech As I'm not at home with my spreadsheets my estimate that the current PI products would last around two months for all pos and pos module demand, excluding fuel requirements. CCP are getting a massive isk sink out of this. Despite the repro there are certain products that will experience shortages soon after the patch. There is also a manufacturing bottleneck due to a 1b isk bpo that producers will end up purchasing. Should be a lot of fun with the market volitility even if CCP do not remove the npc orders prior to the patch. Your estimates can't be correct yet and will not be probably until june 8 because people are constantly bying. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 00:32:00 - [18] I wouldn't mind couple of adv labs for 30m each knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 01:05:00 - [19] Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 01:05:54 Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 01:05:09 Atm this is so well known that i'm already having doubts about the profitability.I like to sell fast and this goes totally against the word fast. We'll be probably looking at intense market war the first few weeks and you know what they say never put all your eggs in one basket. Atm even fuel looks more attractive. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 01:10:00 - [20] That's interesting.I'm defo not buying anything after seeing this.Now lets see how they solve it.... knowledge is power

Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 01:34:00 - [21] I think we can totally scrap the idea of good profit here short term.The more i look at it the more i begin to think that towers will be far from the 50m mark and what happens when somebody who needs isk starts dumping below build price?Panic? knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 02:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Alice Celadon The plot thickens? REAA and Cynojammers show "0" volume for yesterday in The Forge. Is CCP trying to suppress what is now common knowledge? its been reset every few hours i noticed that after i saw 12k volume few hours later it was 0 and 2hours later 1k again.Now its 0 again.The reason is not known for now. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 12:02:00 - [23] Edited by: Grozen on 28/05/2010 12:02:08 why would i buy faction tower for bil when i can buy 10 normal towers for 500m total? knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 13:09:00 - [24] When i gave it a bigger thought whats the worse that could happen?Half of pi functionally is disabled for year.Pi is still somewhat of use because fuel will end at some point and people will need to prepare for that point.As for the t4 stuff it will gradually increase in price over time until the price begin to match extraction rate.CCP only introduced softer landing in a no npc sell orders enviroment.Maybe its better then omg i need pos there are no pos for selling or, zomg this fker is selling pos for 700m i'm not bying that? knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 14:17:00 - [25] This is really the best time to get rich both from pi and from the bug.First because t3 products will be very high in price and second because you have a chance to buy ton of cheap pos,labs that you never had before just think about it no matter how much money has been poored in it will eventually lead to depleted supplies. This will automatically lead to 200% price increase and the market will restore itself to dominion prices on everything if not better. So yea its a great oportunity to buy tons of cheap pos/lab/whatever sit on it for year and then sell later when market has stabilized.For those who can't do the calculation that will be about 150-300% profit IF you have the patience and the isk :P knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 14:58:00 - [26] Warning means you might get ****ed? thank god i bought only 1csj.This actually means PI might not be screwed yet? knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 17:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Tavusii Originally by: cosmoray Making quick cash out of this patch is like a ponzi scheme, get in early and get out quickly before the authorities drop the hammer. My PI: 100 REAA (@ 9 each) = 900M 100 cyno jammer (@ 7.2 each) = 720M 160 Cap Construction Parts (avge 5M each, some mine) = 800M 1 Large Caldari Tower BPO = 500M Total = 2920M 20 Large Caldari Towers in production Sold all other spare P4 modules = 720M Total spent = 2200M Caldari Tower each cost = 85M (not inc BPO) The market for P4 parts looks to have tanked badly in the last few hrs. Sterile conduits selling for around 1M (vs 2.5M 2 hrs ago). One of the big winners is those making cap construction parts, now selling for 15M each (production cost approx. 3.5M ISK) Now, notwithstanding the coming massive drop in pos prices, a quick visit with mr. calculator tells me that cosmoray just profited 5.5 billion on an investment of approx. 3 billion, or ~180% in several days. Any speculation as to the final settling point of a large pos as everyone and their momma tries to dump their **** before the hammer falls, or as people realize that they're going to need to hold their new pos' for up to a year before demand equalizes with this new supply? Now if only there wasn't atleast 1k pos already in the oven he'd be able to sell it fast.But everyone is trying to cash out before ccp brings justice so my guess is its not gonna be funny when all those pos enter the market. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 18:36:00 - [28] It doesn't seem you understand what i posted.The output of PI is so large players have no idea.There are really great planets out there with tons of resources in them.A player with maxed planetary skills can catch up very easy to the situation. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 19:24:00 - [29] Ok we'll talk again when the cc get seeded and i have some numbers to back me up. knowledge is power
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 20:11:00 - [30] They have yet to reveal more parts of PI do not forget its going to be linked to DUST.If there are alot of dust players how are we going to meet the demand for DUST goods if we're not self-sufficient? knowledge is power

Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.05.28 20:29:00 - [31] Its not irrelevant because some of the DUST structures/vehicles may require insane amount of PI materials so if we haven't stocked enough of them and if we don't have enough on the markets at good price we won't be able to cope with the demand regardless how big the DUST population is. Its pretty much pointless to worry about supply atm i say we can look at it again when PI gets fully developed. knowledge is power

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