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did CCP pull an NGE with tyrannis?

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Tamahra Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch	Posted - 2010.05.28 06:32:00 - [1] Edited by: Tamahra on 28/05/2010 06:32:25 from browsing the forums i get the impression: - ninja salvage profession nerfed into oblivion - lvl 5 mission running nerfed into oblivion - courier mission running nerfed into oblivion - salvage ships nerfed into oblivion - marauders nerfed into oblivion looks like eve is now a much more mind numbing game than before considering 80% of the eve population are doing these things, the subscribtion numbers graph might take a devastating nose dive in the near future
Titas Agor TITANS OF PEACE	Posted - 2010.05.28 06:36:00 - [2] i think most ppl will adapt.. the changes are outragous though... i guess it was in the patch notes because i dont remember seeing it, but i see where its at now, if i had seen it bit sooner i would have contacted a GM or bug hunter on test server, tho that prolly wouldn't have done much good either, this kind of stuff is always set in stone when ccp make a descision to change something with missions. Everyone in high sec will be taking a hit.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2010.05.28 06:37:00 - [3] Ninja Salvaging still works the way it used to. Ninja looting is nerfed, certainly. Level 5 mission running has been nerfed into oblivion because now you're actually going to have to run lowsec missions in lowsec. Courier missions are being nerfed because now a level 4 mission will actually be harder than a level 1 mission. Now... can you explain how salvaging and marauders have been nerfed? Salvage hasn't changed, only the loot on large wrecks has been changed. [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Nonexistent Face	Posted - 2010.05.28 06:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Titas Agor Everyone in high sec will be taking a hit. Not mission runners who never loot/salvage. They see me Blitz'in them missions.... ...they hatin'
Nozzie	Posted - 2010.05.28 07:14:00 - [5] Edited by: Nozzie on 28/05/2010 07:14:17 How are marauders nerfed exactly, i havent played since the patch, but i would like to know since i fly a Golem. thanx.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.05.28 07:43:00 - [6] Lol no. Not even close. The ~~nerf~~ rebalancing is minor at best and 2½ of the points you list have nothing to do with this patch. Providing more reason to do a variety of stuff is pretty much the opposite of what the NGE did. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
DeMont Cruiser	Posted - 2010.05.28 07:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Tamahra Edited by: Tamahra on 28/05/2010 06:32:25 from browsing the forums i get the impression: - ninja salvage profession nerfed into oblivion - lvl 5 mission running nerfed into oblivion - courier mission running nerfed into oblivion - salvage ships nerfed into oblivion - marauders nerfed into oblivion looks like eve is now a much more mind numbing game than before considering 80% of the eve population are doing these things, the subscribtion numbers graph might take a devastating nose dive in the near future Key word = Impression
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.28 08:02:00 - [8] This patch has put the foundations to reduce the MMO killer effect called Mudflation. You should be grateful to CCP for this. Stop looking with those super-short sighted glasses. Stop only thinking for your immediate benefit. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Arctur Vallfar	Posted - 2010.05.28 08:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha This patch has put the foundations to reduce the MMO killer effect called Mudflation. You should be grateful to CCP for this. This.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2010.05.28 08:06:00 - [10] Originally by: Mara Rinn Now... can you explain how salvaging and marauders have been nerfed? Salvage hasn't changed, only the loot on large wrecks has been changed. If looting isn't worth it, then blitzing becomes more profitable, because salvaging alone isn't worth the time to gather wrecks. Which means the Marauder tractor bonus is of very limited value (mission item can at > 20km) which in turn means faction/pirate ships perform missioning better then Marauders. So now we have Nightmare > Pally CNR > Golem Mach > Varg Gallente sucks, but even there I would venture a guess at Vindi > Kronos for some missions at least, and of course the good old Domi, now available also in Navy colours. To boot, racial BS skill is of greater use in PvP then Marauder is, AND, Marauder has a higher rank. So there is little reason to train Marauder anymore. Some peeps like to use Golems in W-space still, and I guess there's a small niche there for pimped out Marauders. But, T3 also has the 40km tractor bonus and has greater survivability, lower mass and volume, and lower pricetag. I don't regret training Marauders to 5, I got good utility already for the training time, but I don't see myself flying one again anytime soon. (Even though I have three, collecting dust in empire.)
Qui Shon	Posted - 2010.05.28 08:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha This patch has put the foundations to reduce the MMO killer effect called Mudflation. You should be grateful to CCP for this. Stop looking with those super-short sighted glasses. Stop only thinking for your immediate benefit. Interesting perspective, but, I wonder if Tyrannis really does enough to counter it. But foundation, sure, I'll buy that. Good point.
My Postman	Posted - 2010.05.28 08:23:00 - [12] Edited by: My Postman on 28/05/2010 08:24:30 Originally by: Tamahra Edited by: Tamahra on 28/05/2010 06:32:25 from browsing the forums i get the impression: - ninja salvage profession nerfed into oblivion - lvl 5 mission running nerfed into oblivion - courier mission running nerfed into oblivion - salvage ships nerfed into oblivion - marauders nerfed into oblivion looks like eve is now a much more mind numbing game than before considering 80% of the eve population are doing these things, the subscribtion numbers graph might take a devastating nose dive in the near future + Highsec mining nerfed into oblivion you forgot. Edit: Spelling, even at 7 words, not awake yet.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.28 08:25:00 - [13] Originally by: Qui Shon Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha This patch has put the foundations to reduce the MMO killer effect called Mudflation. You should be grateful to CCP for this. Stop looking with those super-short sighted glasses. Stop only thinking for your immediate benefit. Interesting perspective, but, I wonder if Tyrannis really does enough to counter it. But foundation, sure, I'll buy that. Good point. CCP did like EU governments did: for (too) many years, inept and complacent politic class mis-allocated resources and did not put regulations to have people "just" live at their affordable wealth level (doing so, granted to be easily elected again). Result: past a breaking point, investors mass retracted off Euro and now every other EU goverment are churning out "blood and sweat" economy manouvers. In RL you must make though face to bad luck and basically HTFU. In a game this would be a killer. People actually pay to have access and pay to have fun and entertrainment. Blood and sweat are not exactly the best way to keep a player base. Therefore CCP (guilty of letting things free run and rewards stack and stack again like a RL government) have to introduce nerfs, but also have to keep people "happy enough" not to lose them. Therefore this general nerf is not the huge blood bath it should be but has a gentler curve. Also, it's not a surprise it comes right after the previous and terrain preparation general nerf called Unholy Rage. In fact, we have not to forget how RMTers were just one of the two sides of the deal. The other were the players. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.05.28 08:43:00 - [14] Quote: - ninja looting profession nerfed slightly - lvl 5 mission running exploits fixed - some courier mission running nerfed Fixed.
Jacobs Gladedage	Posted - 2010.05.28 09:13:00 - [15] Edited by: Jacobs Gladedage on 28/05/2010 09:15:28 Quote: ninja salvage profession nerfed into oblivion Actually it has been buffed. Mission runners are going to gather even more tightly because they'll want lvl4 agents who're far away from low sec to avoid being send there. People might just be whining because there hasn't been any of those "HEY THE PARTY IS OVER HERE" threads yet, and they're too lazy to figure out themselves. ;) Quote: lvl 5 mission running nerfed into oblivion They've been fixed, and way too late. :p Quote: courier mission running nerfed into oblivion Yes, if you're minmatar or gallente. Quote: marauders nerfed into oblivion Salvage wise they're the same, and honestly, unless CCP did something wrong with the loot table they havn't been nerfed too much loot wise either. At least tech0 still seems to be plentiful unlike the dreaded (and apparently rare) scrap metal.
Tronjay the'3rd Caldari Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.05.28 12:07:00 - [16] Common......just adapt and stop whining.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.05.28 12:11:00 - [17] Originally by: Jacobs Gladedage At least tech0 still seems to be plentiful unlike the dreaded (and apparently rare) scrap metal. Meta0 drops are still plentiful in small and medium wrecks. In large wrecks meta0 drops are now scraps and from what I can see other large wreck meta drops are less frequent to the point of being an unreliable estimate in overall mission looting income. But when you compare small and medium wrecks versus large wrecks, the loss in income for a missioner that loots and salvages everything is going to be about 30-40% (guestimated) for the entire mission. Large wreck loot and salvage make up about 80% of the loot/salvage value in a mission, pre-nerf. As a ninja looter/salvager this is how my income panned out: Ninja looting salvaging everything in a mission I could get my hands on gave me X income. Focusing only on specific items to loot but still salvaging everything gave me 2X income. Focusing only on large wrecks and looting everything they had gave me 4X income. Focusing only on large wrecks and looting only specific items gave me 6X income. There's a big time component. Being selective allowed me to get to the valuable stuff faster. The value in salvage and loot in a mission is...was stacked in the large wrecks. From what I can see so far, that's gone.
August Moondweller Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.28 12:21:00 - [18] i am a crapppy L4 mission runner. i used to make about 18m/h. yesterday i re-measured, i got 16m/h. naw, i feels no nerf.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.05.28 12:25:00 - [19] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 28/05/2010 12:27:03 Quote: Large wreck loot and salvage make up about 80% of the loot/salvage value in a mission, pre-nerf Time to earn money like the others do then. Quote: As a ninja looter/salvager this is how my income panned out: Ninja looting salvaging everything in a mission I could get my hands on gave me X income. Being on the receiving end of a (CCP's) griefing action doesn't sound so fun, doesn't it? You can go and try Motsu for higher volume along with an army of competitors or you could stop being a carebear worse than those you bloodsuck and go ninja missioneers in low sec. Sadly enough in low sec missioneers can defend themselves. Quote: The value in salvage and loot in a mission is...was stacked in the large wrecks. From what I can see so far, that's gone. That was due because 1 large mod equals to many smaller mods, minerals speaking. Since CCP wanted to give mining back to miners they had to remove those large minerals faucets. An indirect consequence will be rig materials will become worth selling again, after the previous price drop due to the introduction of multi-size rigs. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.05.28 12:52:00 - [20] Edited by: Mr Kidd on 28/05/2010 12:54:22 Was going to reply but due to site errors I don't feel like doing it again.
Whattis	Posted - 2010.05.28 13:40:00 - [21] Nothing wrong with "the nerf". ****ed off at the way this affects Marauders though. Spent 5 months training just to go back to my CNR that I could have topped out in two weeks. It'll probably take several years of complaints before we even see plans to buff Marauders back up. oh well.
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2010.05.28 13:43:00 - [22] Just had a storyline courier come up. Normally I'd go about 3 jumps on it. Now it was 10 jumps, through low sec.
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.28 14:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Qui Shon If looting isn't worth it, then blitzing becomes more profitable, because salvaging alone isn't worth the time to gather wrecks. Which means the Marauder tractor bonus is of very limited value (mission item can at > 20km) which in turn means faction/pirate ships perform missioning better then Marauders. That's the horrible misconception. Looting/Salving wrecks takes NO extra time for Marauders if properly flown. The only thing that causes a Marauder to finish slower than a faction variant is lower applied DPS, and it has nothing at all to do with the looting or salvaging of BS/BC wrecks. From the Minnie perspective, the Mach leaves isk on the table in the hopes that 11% more DPS (And 30% less tracking...) will lead to a faster completion times and isk/hour than picking the loot up and salvaging-as-you-go would have provided. This was absolutely not true prior to Tyrannis. Is it true now? I can't say for certain yet, but I'm writing down my numbers as I go about my missioning business. I have both ships and BS V in both races, so I should be able to have a good basis for comparison soon.
Goose99	Posted - 2010.05.28 14:14:00 - [24] You guys moan too much. Jita-gank just got a huge buff, now that CCP hardcapped it to 1000 ppl. Lots of juicy loot rip for the picking waiting at gates. CCP clearly want everyone to be highsec pirates. Get with the times, ppl.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2010.05.28 21:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Seriously Bored Originally by: Qui Shon If looting isn't worth it, then blitzing becomes more profitable, because salvaging alone isn't worth the time to gather wrecks. Which means the Marauder tractor bonus is of very limited value (mission item can at > 20km) which in turn means faction/pirate ships perform missioning better then Marauders. That's the horrible misconception. Looting/Salving wrecks takes NO extra time for Marauders if properly flown. The only thing that causes a Marauder to finish slower than a faction variant is lower applied DPS, and it has nothing at all to do with the looting or salvaging of BS/BC wrecks. Err, yes is does have something to do with it. I'll explain, so even the bored ones understand. There is no misconception, at least on my part. Whatever makes the isk/h go up, is better, I'm sure we agree. Using a Marauder so you can loot/salvage on the go, used to make your isk/h go up, even though the mission took a little longer, because loot&salvage value made up for the slower time. Since it apparently no longer makes up for the slower time, your isk/h now goes down when you use a Marauder. Indeed because faction ships have more applied dps, which means they do the mission faster. It's strange that you apparently get it, later in your post, yet you call it a misconception when I said about the same thing. And yes, 11% more applied dps is a very healthy boost to minimizing completion time. One I can make count for a lot, though semi-afk or disinterested (in maximising performance) peeps might not.
Legende Two Brothers Mining Corp. R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.05.29 02:21:00 - [26] Wow, I haven't seen a reference to NGE in a long time... just to be sure, you are talking about Star Wars Galaxies: New Game Experience I assume? Regarding the patch, it is not nearly as bad as it seems. Complainers are always loudest on the forums.
Himnos Altar Gallente	Posted - 2010.05.29 06:57:00 - [27] odd, I always called it the New Game Engine.... ah....the classic NGE Ragequit.... anyone get the T-shirt?
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.05.29 07:09:00 - [28] I bothered salvaging Angel Blockade earlier to see how bad it seems; took me 14 mins to kill all, and probably about that to salvage it given I'd left wrecks all over the place. Ignored the small ones and any medium that was spectacularily far off, I'd estimate I collected about 6m worth; the destroyer I was using had two nanos & about 500m3 of cargo, and it didn't fill it ( I left the scraps ). Things like named ABs will drop in price slowly, and I got something worth about 2m I've forgotten the name of right now, so this does seem quite a considerable hit. I'm going to assume a Varg will finish within a couple of mins of that time, so assuming you can get all the loot onboard & wrecks salvaged ( which at that speed is a reasonably big assumption ) it's still worth doing, although then you have to add on time to sort the loot out & take it to market.
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.05.29 08:39:00 - [29] Originally by: Tamahra - ninja salvage profession nerfed into oblivion Nope... The same as always as no changes were done to salvage. Originally by: Tamahra - lvl 5 mission running nerfed into oblivion Nope... L5's just had a bug fixed so they now work as designed. Basically an exploit was fixed and they're now the GROUP activity that they were always intended to be. Originally by: Tamahra - courier mission running nerfed into oblivion Nope... The mission progression, ie. that L2's are harder than L1's and so on was fixed for couriers. Rewards are somewhat low at the moment for higher levels, but that'll change as the mission reward adjustment kicks in. Mission rewards are dynamic depending on how long people take to do them on average, but this takes a while to adjust. Originally by: Tamahra - salvage ships nerfed into oblivion Nope... See first point. Salvage is not affected. Originally by: Tamahra - marauders nerfed into oblivion Nope... Slightly less useful, yes, but nothing worse than that. The main advantage of the Marauder is that they tank like a MoFo. Secondly that they use only half the ammo, meaning it becomes an option to use T2 or faction ammo. Fitting two tractors and a salvage means you'll still salvage a lot and you'll still get quite a bit of loot. Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Dread Phantom Caldari End Game.	Posted - 2010.05.29 09:26:00 - [30] Yep the salvager/tractor on a marauder is an after thought, for the golem the great tank and viable torps with low ammo use is where it makes its money.

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