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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.05.30 17:52:00 -
[1]
I am a missionrunning "carebear" and I enjoy it. Why you ask? Because I can log into the game for some hours every day, earn a decent reward, min/max my fitting and have a good time with a friend of mine doing missions. If you reduce the rewards in high sec past my breaking point, I will find a different game to enjoy.
There are many people just like me. They enjoy a relaxing, interesting gaming experience, with the option to participate in PvP, if they so choose. They won't stay in a game to increase some "pirates" (there are very few people in this game fitting this word, by the way) sense of selfworth, by providing him with an easy target.
Call missionrunners worthless all you want, but we still pay the monthly fee, just like you. If you honestly believe CCP will shoot themselves in the foot by driving those people away, you are delusional and I have a shiny bridge to sell to you.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.05.30 18:31:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
It's not about the largest alliances, it's about the small and medium sized corporations and alliances wich are terribly lacking members since players feel too confort farming ISK in highsec. Too much rewards.
Listen to yourself for a moment. You want to force (because they clearly chose something else to do) other players to do what you consider to be "right". Do you honestly believe that to be an ejoyable experience for them? That this is good design pilosophy for a game?
I'll repeat it for you: If you decrease rewards in highsec past a certain breaking point and don't adjust the risk/reward ratio in lowsec, you will only alienate these players, instead of getting new recruits.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.01 08:19:00 -
[3]
Adoni Bedek pretty much nailed it.
Present some proof that mission runners are hurting anyone (besides miners up until this patch, which I hope is fixed or gets fixed) or stop spouting your nonsense, OP. Your "solutions" to a nonexistant problem are idiotic.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.04 21:33:00 -
[4]
You people really need to stop using words like "courage" or "bravery", when you talk about this. It's a game. There is a single purpose to it: amusement. If something is detrimental to my personal enjoyment, I won't do it. This has nothing to do with having or lacking "balls".
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.07 09:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Mission runners don't seem to understand their effect on the whole game, at all
This is also why it's so hard to make them see the obvious that everyone else do.
Then show us these "obvious" facts, that seem to get mentioned in every thread I read on this topic. Enlighten us poor, misguided souls. But try to back it up with some statistics please. This anecdotal "evidence" gets boring pretty fast.
Up until this point, I haven't seen a single solid argument for reducing mission rewards further. Mind you, "solid argument" entails more than simply saying: "It's obvious that..." or "Everyone knows..."
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.07 15:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
It's not supported as profession by CCP or CCP's backstory for EVE.
Less mindreading of CCP and biased interpretation of the lore, more links to actual statements and facts.
Here is a fact for you: I can do lvl 4 missions for a living and CCP provided me with the means to do so. They continue to support a PvE style of play with new additions.
So, now it's your turn. Link me a statement by CCP that confirms the nonsense you posted.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.10 16:21:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
The "hisec l4 missions can't be nerfed, because that'd be ruining my chosen playstyle"-line is getting pretty old, considering their high payout actually makes every other hisec career path (bar trading, but we'll ignore that because it's actually PvP and therefore not comparable) a total waste of time from an economical perspective. In other words, the precious hisec l4s as they are now are actually ruining quite a few other playstyles.
I personally think they should've never put a single l4 in hisec. L3s would fit in a lot better with f.ex. hisec exploration content both in rewards and npc fleet compositions.
Let me show you a novel concept. It is called: "How to buff/improve/rework playstyles, without nerfing another one." I know, hard to grasp, right? It works something like this:
Step 1: Take an underperforming playstyle and buff/improve/rework it, to be in line with the other ones.
Step 2: Sit back and enjoy the look of a happy playerbase.
Fascinating how that works, isn't it? Happy to help!
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.10 17:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
Now, while you so gleefully pointed out that all the factors are relative and the absolute numbers are irrelevant, would you rather adjust pretty much every career EXCEPT hisec mission running and pray that things don't backfire due to some minor detail you forgot to take in account, or adjust the one thing that's amiss?
If an engine has one part that doesn't fit, do you resize that particular part, or every other part?
See, this would make sense if you were dealing with a machine, instead of thinking human beings. CCP provides a service, which can be messured in the amount of enjoyment we receive. A lot of people enjoy mission running (a majority, if I can trust numbers I have seen). Nerfing this playstyle, because they are too afraid or too lazy to fix the others instead, is bad for business. It is their job to find solutions that make everyone happy, not mine or yours.
I won't delve into the absurd last paragraph you posted. It should be pretty obvious that a complex market system like EVE does not work the way you portray it.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.10 17:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi
That's actually somewhat amusing, considering the 'absurd' last parapgraph is pretty straightforwardly based on your argument that buffing everything else to match mission running would fix things. Or the market isn't complex at all when you're buffing dozen things, it only gets complex when you nerf one?
We are obviously arguing in a circle here, so I will only comment on this part.
No, I am well aware that the market is complex and that changes to any playstyle can have unforseen consequences. You stated that nerfing my income would only have a "psychological effect", which is, as I said, absurd. Again, let me make 2 things perfectly clear:
1. I am happy with the status quo.. You are the one demanding/proposing change.
2. I repeat. It is CCPs job to make this work, if they see the need to change anything. Not mine or yours. It is also not your job or mine to make excuses for them and tell them to take the easy way out.
In closing, I am pretty sure that we won't see any big nerfs to mission running in the near future. At the end of the day, CCP is about making money and they won't be shooting themselves in the foot by alienating such a huge portion of their playerbase.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.11 04:02:00 -
[10]
I am really curious where you get the notion that lvl 4 mission running is "absurdly overpowered". It provides income to a host of people, not just "highsec carebears" and I can honestly say that my cash flow is nothing to write home about. It allows me to buy a shiny toy after a reasonable amount of time/grind, nothing more, nothing less.
Let me use your analogy for a moment. Missioning is the only working tire, all the other professions are flat tires. Best solution according to you: Flatten the last tire, instead of repairing the other ones.
It's always funny how trigger happy people get with the nerf gun, if it's about a playstyle they themselves do not care about.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.11 07:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
This is usually the talk of the spoonfed.
EvE is balanced on consequences and choices.
If you are an idiot at PvP, you are meant to have it hard to recoup the losses, not to undo a fully T2 fitted battleship or HAC loss with an handful of hours of mild, secure grinding.
Otherwise EvE becomes another BAD FAIL MMO like Warhammer Online or another of the plethora of "zero consequences" failures.
I really REALLY want EvE to last a long time and to do so CCP have to periodically trim the fat and kill mudflation aka the MMO cancer.
I am sure CCP planned a temporary loss of subs for the greater long term good of their product. They killed countless thousands of subs with Unholy Rage, they will do what's necessary even on other game categories.
I would really like to see some numbers backing this up. The last report suggested a deflation and not a single trace of the doomsayer "MUDFLATION" chant. As far as I am aware missions haven't been buffed in recent times. So, would you kindly stop pretending that this is some new development, that will drag EVE to it's doom?
By the way, did you just call me "spoonfed"? You think grinding for days to get a new toy once in a while is being spoonfed? Hilarious.
You may call it "trimming the fat", "killing mudflation" or some similar nonsense. It won't get nerfed in any significant way, because it is a legitimate playstyle, which a majority of EVE players participate in. Comparing it to the Unholy Rage is pretty absurd.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.11 09:21:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ambraley on 11/06/2010 09:22:10
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I prefer calling you spoonfed over other, far more insulting terms if you *really* take such excruciant pain to get a new toy with missioning.
I don't perceive missioning as "excruciant pain". It is a relaxing way to spent some time with a friend of mine, while chatting and working on efficiency. The time I spent on aquiring my new toys is really quite reasonable. In the end it is none of your business what I do with my free time and insults will only weaken any argument you make, so go ahead.
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
It happened already and few days ago. As I typed in the other page, I am not here to ask for more nerfs, I was only answering other people who are in denial even on the current nerf.
I haven't been vocal about this recent nerf, because it is actually quite easy to work around it and I am happy if it helps miners (which it won't). You really can't call this a nerf, when comparing it to the topic at hand (maybe you should read the OP).
Again, I haven't seen a single good reason to nerf missions in a way the thread starter described. All this "HTFU", "Adapt or die" and so on, is just nonsense. I decide how I want to play this game and no amount of nerdrage from "pirates" (not meaning you Vaerah) will change that.
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Ambraley
Amarr
Belt-Snakes
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Posted - 2010.06.11 11:37:00 -
[13]
As I said, I don't care about the recent nerf and I see it as more of a readjustment. It's quite simple to circumvent, while keeping most of the ninja salvagers off my back. If CCP keeps tweaking missions like this, I won't be complaining too much. The OPs "ideas" were simply idiotic though.
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