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Helixios
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Posted - 2010.06.01 04:07:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Helixios on 01/06/2010 04:06:46
Make use of the current unused battlecruiser hulls (Honestly, what appears to be the favorite hull types)- The Hurricane, the Drake, the Harbinger, and the Myrmidon.
My idea for the "next" CovOps ship would be an entirely new thing for Eve. Not just some amped up recon. Not just some weird heavy stealth bomber.
My suggestion for a CovertOps Battlecruiser would be a decoy ship. A ship with relatively low attack power, but the ability to fake it's shiptype and number.
This ship's role would be simply to misinform intel and confuse fleet operations for enemy commanders.
Here's the basis of it. The ship would be a covert ops cloaked ship, able to warp and move cloaked through a system. It would ALSO be able to appear as different ships when viewed by directional scanners and overviews, as well as visibly appear different. So say... The CovOps Hurricane could look like say... A ferox.
Scan Probes would still reveal the ship as it's true self, not what it's projecting.
Now... To ensure there isn't a little battlecruiser trying to make itself look like a Chimera to scare people off, the hull types it can mimic would be based upon signature radius (or maybe the ship's literal size). So MAYBE you'd be able to look like certain smaller battleships or larger cruisers (And of course other battlecruisers, etc).
This would allow the ship to decloak anywhere in a system like a normal CovOps, but appear as any ship it's able to project, causing a certain amount of confusion.
In addition, it would be able to deploy drones with a similar effect. Each drone would be able to project it's own image, mocking the hulltypes of frigates, drones, and the like.
Each drone would be fairly fragile, and have a limited ability to fight back as the actual projected ship would (Drones looking like a rifter would orbit and fire mock autocannons, just with far less damage than the actual ship. Drones looking like a Kestrel would fire mock missiles, as well). The number of active decoy drones would vary from ship to ship- the maximum number of drones being five as usual. I'm thinking maybe for added effect, larger drones could be used as well (Such as one heavy drone, or three medium drones) to be able to display decoy Destroyers (medium drones) and Cruisers (heavy drone), as well.
This would allow the ship to bluff it's own shiptype, as well as bluff it's numbers. The overall effect of the ship would be a ruse, but it would still be able to fight effectively in it's own right.
The ships themselves would have relatively low attack power and low defense (especially considering the hull types they are using, which are respectively very powerful ships) but due to the slippery nature of the ship itself could possibly tote a natural warp core strength and low signature radius to make it an especially difficult ship to engage.
I personally would like the ship to remain relatively low in attack power and defense so that it's decoy roles and survivability can be more realized without it becoming overpowered- But I would like to hear other thoughts on the matter.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.01 05:02:00 -
[2]
good idea perhaps a t3 bc ?
something like a false-posiitive scan module counter signal.
Or FOF disruptor
Its an interesting concept
Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Ned Black
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Posted - 2010.06.01 06:33:00 -
[3]
To bad that just one look at local will spoil all that fluff for you...
Local is the best intel source around. If you suddenly get 5 people on directional but only one show up in local... hmmm... would I like a nice cov ops BC for breakfast?
Now if you set local to delayed...
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Helixios
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Posted - 2010.06.01 08:52:00 -
[4]
Can't say I care for local either, but you can't tell shiptypes by a person's name in local- so at least one of it's roles is still easily viable.
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Ned Black
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Posted - 2010.06.01 10:53:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Helixios
Can't say I care for local either, but you can't tell shiptypes by a person's name in local- so at least one of it's roles is still easily viable.
No, it is not.
Now lets say you are out hunting with some friends.
You come into a system with one person in local. You make a scan of the area and you get a drake on scan... what do you do?
You come into a system with one person in local. You make a scan of the area and you get a domi on scan... what do you do?
My answer to both is: Find the bugger and attack.
Problem 1: Find the bugger... Solution: Scan probes... and since scan probes negate your "decoy" it would be totally useless anyway.
As I said... if you delay local, then your idea would have some merit if the drones could become whatever and not only frigs. 5 hacks could be a serious threat if you could not see that they were nothing but a decoy... but the way things are right now this suggestion just not going to work.
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Ackbarre
Minmatar
The Greater Goon
Clockwork Pineapple
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Posted - 2010.06.01 11:13:00 -
[6]
Why not have a Q-Ship type instead? It could look like a Mammoth but instead be a Stabber.
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steave435
Caldari
Final Agony
B A N E
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Posted - 2010.06.01 12:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ned Black
Originally by: Helixios
Can't say I care for local either, but you can't tell shiptypes by a person's name in local- so at least one of it's roles is still easily viable.
No, it is not.
Now lets say you are out hunting with some friends.
You come into a system with one person in local. You make a scan of the area and you get a drake on scan... what do you do?
You come into a system with one person in local. You make a scan of the area and you get a domi on scan... what do you do?
My answer to both is: Find the bugger and attack.
1. Your small nano fleet come into a system with 6 people from the same corp in local, but you get nothing on scan. What do you do?
2. Your small nano fleet come into a system with 6 people from the same corp in local and a single BC on scan. What do you do?
3. Your small nano fleet come into a system with 6 people from the same corp in local and get 6 T1 cruisers/frigates on scan. What do you do?
Answers:
1: Keep on going since you can't find them anyway
2: Carefully engage it since you expect the other 5 guys to be in cloaky recons/deep safes
3: Engage, feeling confident you can win, until it turns out the cruisers/frigs were decoys and the real gang is a bunch of cloaky recons that shut your whole gang down while they slowly kill you.
This is assuming that 1 single one of these can make itself seem like several ships.
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Helixios
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Posted - 2010.06.02 01:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Helixios on 02/06/2010 02:04:31
Edited by: Helixios on 02/06/2010 01:59:53
Now that I think about it.
There's a few issues with the drones. You would deploy a drone and suddenly a "Frigate" would appear next to you. Suspicious? Yeah. And it would be enough to give up your bluff immediately once the ship tactic became commonly known.
Solution?
A. The drones can be deployed in a cloaked state. This way it can be deployed and managed before you reveal yourself without random strange shiptypes appearing around you. (You cannot "bump" your own drones and decloak, but someone else could bump one of your drones and decloak you, as well as all of your drones)
B. The drones can warp with you like a small squad formation. The drones would align/warp like normal ships as though you were a squad commander warping your squad somewhere.
AB. The drones use your own covert ops cloak. They can cloak and warp with you, while deployed.
The drones are tricky- Any player observing the decoy fleet would soon realize that these frigates/destroyers/cruiser were orbiting the main decoy ship like drones, not sitting stationary or moving like individual players. My suggestion is that new commands for these drones be implemented.
Commands:
-Cloak (Cloaks the drone)
-Select (Allows for direct movement control of the drone by "putting you inside" the ship and controlling it like a normal ship) This is a tougher function to implement but would be the best for effective deception of enemies.
-Orbit x meters
-Follow x meters
-Stop
-Mimic (When clicked brings up a list of available ships and drones it can mimic with a search function and a "favorites" menu for preselected ship settings)
-Speed/Agility/Mass (Set the projected maximum speed, agility, and mass of the drone. This will allow a rather fast, agile, and light drone to move like a heavier ship)
To reiterate something I think may have been unclear- Cloaking your drones would use the same mechanics as your own cloaking device. They would be INTERCONNECTED. To bump and uncloak the decoy ship's drone would be to decloak ALL of it's drones and the ship itself (making it a bad idea to move with your drones out at all times if you're trying to be a sneaky cloaker) BUT the drones would not be able to "bump" eachother out of cloak, or yourself.
Due to the complications (I am assuming) of having drones that launch missiles(?), I believe it would be best if the decoy ships can only mimic blasters/rails, beam/pulse lasers, autocannons/artillery.
I would also like to mention, again, that the damage of these drones would be minor- Only enough to make the ships perform semi-realistically and fool inattentive people.
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Helixios
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Posted - 2010.06.02 20:01:00 -
[9]
Shameless Self Bump
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Helixios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.17 02:08:00 -
[10]
The Decoy Battlecruiser could perhaps use a "chameleon" module to swap your name, shiptype, and other visible attributes with someone nearby at random (within 5k-7k, maybe). This would essentially allow you to phase through an enemy fleet, adopting the visible traits of whatever ships you pass by.
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Battle Dust Proposal |
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Fournone
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Posted - 2010.07.17 02:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ackbarre
Why not have a Q-Ship type instead? It could look like a Mammoth but instead be a Stabber.
This.
Sounds like Homeworld Cataclysm's mimics. They could become any fighter ingame or an asteriod. Time for an ingame senario.
You flying around low or nul sec with your hulk mining jaspet and other valueble ores. You jump to a belt and see a huge hunk of biscot, you target it and use your roid scanner to see how much is inside.......no reading. For a sec yout think wtf then suddenly a red pops into your overview and the asteroid turns into a gank battlecruiser. Bye bye hulk.
And another...
You are roaming around low sec in a wolf when you see an iteron come thru the gate. You seize the opertunity and instantly scram/web it. Thent he harmless hualer turns into a shiny modified myrmidon which scrams/webs you and you lose a ship to a swarm of hobgoblins.
This would be a nasty ship so it should be very very expensive and very hard to build. Also the device that makes it turn into other ships would require lots of cpu/powergrid and also be very very expensive (after all, your getting tons of free kills).
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Quesa
D00M.
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Posted - 2010.07.17 07:49:00 -
[12]
I think the decoy concept is interesting however I'm not down with a BC with a covop on it. We have enough covop users.
I had planned on using them to fix fleet lag but was talked out of it. -CCP Zulu |
Shin Dari
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Posted - 2010.07.17 09:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Helixios
The Decoy Battlecruiser could perhaps use a "chameleon" module to swap your name, shiptype, and other visible attributes with someone nearby at random (within 5k-7k, maybe). This would essentially allow you to phase through an enemy fleet, adopting the visible traits of whatever ships you pass by.
I think that the biggest problem with the Decoy BC idea is one of economics.
Decoys die a lot, and the loss of an T2 BC is very bad for the wallet. I rather see them as T2 destroyers with all the high slots filled with bombs.
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Helixios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.17 16:55:00 -
[14]
Negative. I think the slippery, mutable, distracting job of the Decoy BC could do well to keep it alive. Because it's a BC it would be much more sturdy than the smaller CovOps ships most people are used to, and it's cost (which would most likely be roughly the same as the other TII BC's) would ensure this ship isn't over used (which would make it's use less effective).
Because it lacks the Ewar capabilities of other ships, it could be easily suited for heavier tanking.
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Battle Dust Proposal |
Fournone
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Posted - 2010.07.17 23:00:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Fournone on 17/07/2010 23:04:32
self quote 
Originally by: Fournone
.....Also the device that makes it turn into other ships would require lots of cpu/powergrid and also be very very expensive (after all, your getting tons of free kills).
In addition to having the device have tons of cpu/pwoergrid reqs the decoy ship should have -99% cpu need bonus to the 'ship disguise module' like the cov ops to cloaks and seige luanchers (atleast I think its seige luanchers). That way theres not a bunch of normal HACs pretending to be cute little iterons.
Eve lore: A recent advancment in cloaking technology has yeilded a new version of the cloaking device which allows a handful of specialized vessels the ability to look like other vessels. Working much like the cloak, it is able to trick the eye and ship scanners into thinking that the vessel carrying the device is whatever the user wishes.
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Helixios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.17 23:08:00 -
[16]
Yep. Of course this would have to be a special ability only for this one ship. Would hate to see what happens when some Indy ship turns into a 'Geddon.
As for the mechanics of the "Chameleon Module", I think there is some debate as to whether or not it should swap your signature with someone else (Meaning Chameleon Ship now adopts the appearance of "Ship A" while Ship A adopts the appearance of the Chameleon Ship).
Now that I think about it, it would probably be better if you only mimic the ships you pass by, not impose your own ship type on them.
I think I'll update the first post, now, to better explain some of the newer things here.
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Battle Dust Proposal |
i hatechosingnames
Gallente
Majestic.
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Posted - 2010.07.18 10:37:00 -
[17]
the battle cruiser is a spy! /TF2
how about anti command ships for the T2 BC's?
Command ships give fleet bonuses, Anti Command Ships (ACS) give opposing fleets a negative bonus.
give the modules a range of 100km, modifiable by skill and effects all non fleeted ships in range - also effected by enemy damps.
When a normal Warfare link is fitted to the ACS the normal bonuses are applied negatively to enemy ships in range with no bonus applied to friendly fleet.
EG Siege Warfare Link - Active Sheilding - Increases the speed of the fleet's shield boosters and decreases the duration of shield transporters.
Siege Warfare Link - Anti Active Sheilding - Decreases the speed of the Enemy fleet's shield boosters and increases the duration of shield transporters.
lets see those Guardians rep chain when their energy transfers take longer as well as their remote armour repairers taking longer...
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Helixios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.18 22:05:00 -
[18]
I think Debuff mechanics have been brought up before, but I've personally never really liked them. While I think Eve could do better to have some more AOE EWAR (Stasis Webification fields, energy neutralization fields, etc)I don't think having anti-command links and the like would be the greatest idea.
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Battle Dust Proposal |
Fournone
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Posted - 2010.07.19 00:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Helixios
AOE EWAR (Stasis Webification fields, energy neutralization fields, etc)
YEEEEEES! 
The only realy problem is getting the drones to 'decoy'. I think its dropable. From an impementation prospective, its not different form my eve lore I posted. A simple skin change on cloaking device. What I really made this post for is for a recent idea I had. Wouldn't it make more sence for the device to not become EVERY noncapital sihp in eve, but instead of a device specificly for each ship you want to mimic (one for a mammoth 'projection', one for an iteron 'projection', one for a hurricane 'projection', etc). Not sure its a good or bad idea, but it would make sence that this specific the decoy projector was built for this one ship and not all ships. Would increase demand and make the omni projectors reqiure all 'decoy projection' skills to 5, and have a chance for falibility. (after all, it hasn't be fine tuned for 'just that ship' therefore it has the posibility to misfire, new tech always has problems)
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Rhadia
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Posted - 2010.07.19 01:17:00 -
[20]
I think it would do well to have the "Decoy Ship" skill control what ships you can mimic. I think you've got a good idea, but I don't think the "decoy module" should be restricted to a single ship, but more likely a specific ship class. That way it would be fairly easy to mimic the signatures of TI ships, and perhaps require a different module to mimic the sensors of industrial ships. TII ships, and ships that have more drastic differences in size compared to the battlecruiser would require greater skill to mimic.
Good idea.
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Bobbi Attwell
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Posted - 2010.07.19 12:19:00 -
[21]
sounds more like a pirate battlecruiser to me, something that pirates would use to evade capture or lure people into their trap.
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Helixios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.19 20:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bobbi Attwell
sounds more like a pirate battlecruiser to me, something that pirates would use to evade capture or lure people into their trap.
Nothing wrong with that. A ship meant to be tricky, mean, and dangerous only naturally fits the role of pirates.
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Battle Dust Proposal |
Fournone
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Posted - 2010.07.20 15:03:00 -
[23]
savior bump
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Helixios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.20 20:33:00 -
[24]
Any more support for this, eh?
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Battle Dust Proposal |
Blue Dragon
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Posted - 2010.07.21 06:07:00 -
[25]
I'm not too keen on drones being able to decoy, and I'm a heavy drone user. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me.
As for signatures, I would propose that you can emulate any ship that has a larger signature then your own, because its much easier to puff up you feathers and look bigger, then it is to curl up into a ball and pretend to be something smaller.
For a ship to pretend to be somthing smaller, it has to be able to adjust it's signature down, something that's very difficult to do and it affects targeting. But if you pretend to be a much LARGER ship... that's a whole different story.
I can see a Domi getting a loc onto a hulk as a part of hulkagddon and firing... only to see said ship turn into a battle cruiser and locking you down, long enough for concord to come and eat you up. :)
THAT, would be sweet justice. I wonder how many would-be hulk gankers will start throwing a fit/crying that they lost due to such duplicity...
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Helixios
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.21 21:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Helixios on 21/07/2010 21:17:02
Well, the drones being able to turn into Decoys are essential for duping intel effectively. It's much different when one guy is in a system and is flying one ship that is masked to look like something else. But when you've got a gang of 4 Recons/Cov Ops ships working in concert with this Decoy ship, it becomes far more effective. (Because whatever person is scouting you out sees all five ships, when in reality, they only see the one.)
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Battle Dust Proposal |
Fournone
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Posted - 2010.07.21 22:50:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Fournone on 21/07/2010 22:50:33
Originally by: Helixios
Any more support for this, eh?
sadly its pretty much you and me 
trying to think of bright ideas for this, ill get back to you if I can find my  button
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Gloryhunter Prime
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Posted - 2010.07.22 01:44:00 -
[28]
I feel like this would be a great tool in anyone arsenal and I would gladly train to have this in my set of ships..
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