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Why the hate on PI?

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Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2010.06.04 13:54:00 - [1] I have to admit - I did not see the intrigue of PI at first. Seemed like a version of Farmville in EVE. But after seeing what you can produce with it, as a T2 producer and POS owner - I was floored. PI gives allainces the ability to produce an amazing variety of items, including T2 items, with MUCH LESS dependence on traveling to Empire. No need to go to empire for POS parts and fule, Sov parts and fule, T2 base components sold by NPC market. As an alliance, makes 0.0 that much more self sustaining. As as a T2 inventor and producer, it just potentilly reduced my out of pocket expenses by at least 15% How all we need to so is open up more stations to trade. What is to hate?
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.06.04 13:55:00 - [2] It was supposed to be more than it is. - DesuSigs - Now with ThreadAssignÖ and SigSelectÖ
Pesky LaRue Minmatar Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:03:00 - [3] Originally by: Crumplecorn It was supposed to be more than it is. Largely this, but there is also the "we will whine about anything" factor we need to take into account, as well as the "this expansion doesn't personally tickle me" Quorum, and, of course, the "CCP ate my baby" crowd. If CCP continue to develop PI, it has potential but if it's left in a half-completed state - like FW is - then the disappointment will continue. . [Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels]
northwesten Amarr Trinity Corporate Services	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:04:00 - [4] I don't see much hate? Though I think CCP should take their time to put this new feature in right. I really not bothered about look like farmvill as there be Dust soon enough. I am kinda looking forward to it and see how it goes. Trinity Corporate Services
Juren Coda Gallente Funda	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Crumplecorn It was supposed to be more than it is. What not is yet, is maybe yet to come. This is one of the most radical changes to the eve market mechanism since the start of Eve. I am happy to see they start with this initial footprint. Adding more products to make using planetary resources in the future, is all about testing and then implementing, based on CCP idea's and customer feedback. Great job sofar CCP. Keep up the great work. One day, except for skillbooks, everything is player created :-) Signed, Juren Coda CEO Funda Corporation Gallente Federation, Luminaire General
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:07:00 - [6] Originally by: Crumplecorn It was supposed to be more than it is. indeed. but then again, that's how stuff is nowadays with CCP. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:16:00 - [7] For me, a lot of the "hate" (which is too strong a word for this in my opinion) is directed towards CCPs poor handling of the expansion on several levels. It was released sterile as people involved in the road testing on SiSi could have an advantage over those new to the experience. I don't fully understand this logic, but I guess CCP are kicking themselves as they love their expansion deadlines. What is pretty hillarious for me is the way they handled the fallout from reprocessing of POS modules. From what I understand, it made people who got in on the action early richer, and the people that abided by CCPs warning are now at a significant disadvantage compared to the early adopters. Basically, a featureless, delayed expansion, and terrible handling of a problem they should have known about beforehand. Oh, and they've somehow made lag worse. And removed widescreen. Must be one of their most embarassing expansions to date. News of their terrible handling of the blunder even made BBC News. My Facebook!
BoBoZoBo Foundation	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Crumplecorn It was supposed to be more than it is. indeed. but then again, that's how stuff is nowadays with CCP. As it should be - From any kind of development standpoint, it should be pre-nerfed. If that is the way it is with them now - then all that tells me is that they learned form thier mistakes of releasing uber promises only to be cut in half later. PI is in its infancy, has not even taken it first steps untill Tuesday and already you can see the potential. I can see its genius - however others who have a harder time seeing into the future may not agree. ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:25:00 - [9] I like shoe-horned expansions that bump legitimate player requests farther back in the development schedule (and I use that word loosely), in lieu of setting the stage for a ****ty console game I will never play. Also, CCP ate my baby.
Salria Usenheart	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:34:00 - [10] Because everyone thinks i need feature rich things now. Instead of considering the fact that it was needed as a base starting point for dust 514 interaction. It brings more of the market in to player hands, and it paves the way for the removal of all npc seeded items apart from Skill Books with PI, truely making it a fully player driven industry and economy.

Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:35:00 - [11] Well, before the tier 2 BC's were introduced many of the forum community rallied hard against them and only focused on their drawbacks. So yes, some people will just complain about anything.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:39:00 - [12] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails For me, a lot of the "hate" (which is too strong a word for this in my opinion) is directed towards CCPs poor handling of the expansion on several levels. It was released sterile as people involved in the road testing on SiSi could have an advantage over those new to the experience. I don't fully understand this logic, but I guess CCP are kicking themselves as they love their expansion deadlines. What is pretty hillarious for me is the way they handled the fallout from reprocessing of POS modules. From what I understand, it made people who got in on the action early richer, and the people that abided by CCPs warning are now at a significant disadvantage compared to the early adopters. Basically, a featureless, delayed expansion, and terrible handling of a problem they should have known about beforehand. Oh, and they've somehow made lag worse. And removed widescreen. Must be one of their most embarassing expansions to date. News of their terrible handling of the blunder even made BBC News. Lately, you've been making me very sad with your lack of Hi, cat here, lol, and x. Did cat get sold? If so, I'm going to hold an impromptu funeral service at the eve gate. --Vel
Pesky LaRue Minmatar Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:42:00 - [13] Originally by: De'Veldrin Lately, you've been making me very sad with your lack of Hi, cat here, lol, and x. Did cat get sold? If so, I'm going to hold an impromptu funeral service at the eve gate. I think he realised all the forum tomfoolery wasn't as cute and endearing to the average poster (as reflected in the CSM results) and has decided to start posting like an adult to try and adjust the forum perception of him before next year's elections. But I might be wrong. . [Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels]
Sarina Berghil Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails For me, a lot of the "hate" (which is too strong a word for this in my opinion) is directed towards CCPs poor handling of the expansion on several levels. It was released sterile as people involved in the road testing on SiSi could have an advantage over those new to the experience. I don't fully understand this logic, but I guess CCP are kicking themselves as they love their expansion deadlines. What is pretty hillarious for me is the way they handled the fallout from reprocessing of POS modules. From what I understand, it made people who got in on the action early richer, and the people that abided by CCPs warning are now at a significant disadvantage compared to the early adopters. Basically, a featureless, delayed expansion, and terrible handling of a problem they should have known about beforehand. Oh, and they've somehow made lag worse. And removed widescreen. Must be one of their most embarassing expansions to date. News of their terrible handling of the blunder even made BBC News. Damage control is always tricky, they're damned if they do, they're damned if they don't. Mistakes shouldn't happen but they often do. In terms of the content of expansions, it seems to always depend on the type of players. Dominion had absolutely nothing of use to me personally, while Apocrypha pretty much defined how I play Eve. For others Im sure its the other way around. I'm cautiously optimistic about Tyrannis, excited to see how the market evolves when it starts for real. Eve expansions are not the same thing as expansions for other MMOs. Linear MMOs get more content attached on top of them and everyone goes there. Eve isnt linear and then it looks like relative small additions all over the perimeter, new options instead of mandatory rides.
Louis deGuerre Gallente Amicus Morte Shock an Awe	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:48:00 - [15] When you've finally got your base setup now and some ***head start putting up his extractors on top of yours there's nothing you can do. Let the PI-grieving commence ! TL;DR: PI needs more nukes. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this!* Clear Skies - The Movie
An Anarchyyt Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Crumplecorn It was supposed to be more than it is. indeed. but then again, that's how stuff is nowadays with CCP. Quite a few things we have in game now were additions on the original ideas that were not able to be put in place when the game or patch first launched. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:53:00 - [17] Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails For me, a lot of the "hate" (which is too strong a word for this in my opinion) is directed towards CCPs poor handling of the expansion on several levels. It was released sterile as people involved in the road testing on SiSi could have an advantage over those new to the experience. I don't fully understand this logic, but I guess CCP are kicking themselves as they love their expansion deadlines. What is pretty hillarious for me is the way they handled the fallout from reprocessing of POS modules. From what I understand, it made people who got in on the action early richer, and the people that abided by CCPs warning are now at a significant disadvantage compared to the early adopters. Basically, a featureless, delayed expansion, and terrible handling of a problem they should have known about beforehand. Oh, and they've somehow made lag worse. And removed widescreen. Must be one of their most embarassing expansions to date. News of their terrible handling of the blunder even made BBC News. Lately, you've been making me very sad with your lack of Hi, cat here, lol, and x. Did cat get sold? If so, I'm going to hold an impromptu funeral service at the eve gate. I was wondering that, too. Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.06.04 14:53:00 - [18] Originally by: Pesky LaRue Originally by: Crumplecorn It was supposed to be more than it is. Largely this, but there is also the "we will whine about anything" factor we need to take into account, as well as the "this expansion doesn't personally tickle me" Quorum, and, of course, the "CCP ate my baby" crowd. If CCP continue to develop PI, it has potential but if it's left in a half-completed state - like FW is - then the disappointment will continue. everything within this mini-pyramidquote is accurate I mean, the trailers and other stuff for PI talked about ruthless tyranny and oppression, and all you're really doing is POS-style moon mining with a lot more clicking and a lot less profits. If PI grows and includes, say, cities, population, actual planetary development, fancy new hightech buildables (datacores and skillbooks seem to be good choices, maybe even some blueprints), and plenty of methods to destroy/capture all of the above, it'd be pretty awesome _____________________ Horrors! Demons in the deep!
Kyusoath Orillian Haters Gonna Hate	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:15:00 - [19] Edited by: Kyusoath Orillian on 04/06/2010 15:20:39 Originally by: Spaceman Jack I have to admit - I did not see the intrigue of PI at first. Seemed like a version of Farmville in EVE. But after seeing what you can produce with it, as a T2 producer and POS owner - I was floored. PI gives allainces the ability to produce an amazing variety of items, including T2 items, with MUCH LESS dependence on traveling to Empire. No need to go to empire for POS parts and fule, Sov parts and fule, T2 base components sold by NPC market. As an alliance, makes 0.0 that much more self sustaining. As as a T2 inventor and producer, it just potentilly reduced my out of pocket expenses by at least 15% How all we need to so is open up more stations to trade. What is to hate? when i read reality distorting posts like this i think its ccp posting trying to desperately save face. you are 'floored' by space theme connect the dots, well you are very easily impressed. you don't have to fly to empire to get certain items! great but why do you have to 'play' this dots and lines 'game' that looks in everyway inferior to the majority of flashgames from ten years ago (its just so much worse than any flash game from more recent times). basically a mini'game' thats not a game at all just some basic maths followed by a lot of clicking. its like the ui was designed by a dog with a crayon in its rectum. which is likely, as actual human ccp employees make videos about 'excellence' without any understanding of the word and write a monthly devblog about how they are going to do something right...one day. or childish 'music' videos aimed at the 12-14 year old market, or console fps designed for the 5-manchild market(people who have consoles) . maybe they spent so much time making non-representative trailers for gameplay that does not exist that they had to rush out this mildly-animated circular icons grind ? i'm sure you are impressed. but i don't hate you man, you're just doing your job.
Rouge Drone	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:18:00 - [20] It only benefits alliances which is the minority of the playerbase. For everyone else it's just a useless feature that took development time away from the stuff that actually needs time spent fixing like low sec and faction warfare.

Nicholas Barker Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:27:00 - [21] Originally by: Crumplecorn It was supposed to be more than it is. It tickled me, i would have enjoyed the management aspect of running a planet. Then it was total disappointment, set up your system of extractors, reactors, and storage facilities. Then every so many hours go and click "scan" for a new set of deposits and click on it, then leave it for hours again. There's not even regions and such to fight over with the use of dust like in their original concept, it's all just fell to **** like a lot of other things in the game. Not only that, but the way eve works you can't take something out and replace it without erasing everybody progress. So we're stuck with it. I'm not saying people won't use it, it's somewhere to get cheap goods to help cut corners on running other things to help gain an advantage over rivals (so people may HAVE to do it to keep up), but it won't be fun. ------ 0800-LAG-A-NODE
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:33:00 - [22] you know all that stuff in the fanfest vid we were teased about like districts and trade agreements and population management etc? and then seeing how it actually turned out? THAT is why - Malyutka (The Virus) -
Jill Xelitras Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Spaceman Jack As as a T2 inventor and producer, it just potentilly reduced my out of pocket expenses by at least 15% I suppose you're also mining all the minerals you need for building ships, because that reduces your costs .
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Jill Xelitras Originally by: Spaceman Jack As as a T2 inventor and producer, it just potentilly reduced my out of pocket expenses by at least 15% I suppose you're also mining all the minerals you need for building ships, because that reduces your costs . And why wouldn't it reduce costs, even marginally? Let's say I want to make a fence, and I salvage pieces of wood from around the area. I construct my fence, and though I have spent time gathering resources, I have not paid anybody else for the privilege of providing them to me. Maybe this was a poor example, as a fence is somewhat difficult to resell. Even so, in my example the lumber manufacturer would surely add a little markup. My Facebook!
Kyusoath Orillian Haters Gonna Hate	Posted - 2010.06.04 15:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails Originally by: Jill Xelitras Originally by: Spaceman Jack As as a T2 inventor and producer, it just potentilly reduced my out of pocket expenses by at least 15% I suppose you're also mining all the minerals you need for building ships, because that reduces your costs . And why wouldn't it reduce costs, even marginally? Let's say I want to make a fence, and I salvage pieces of wood from around the area. I construct my fence, and though I have spent time gathering resources, I have not paid anybody else for the privilege of providing them to me. Maybe this was a poor example, as a fence is somewhat difficult to resell. Even so, in my example the lumber manufacturer would surely add a little markup. stick to defending rancer, you can't do this industry stuff x
Bad Princess	Posted - 2010.06.04 16:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Jill Xelitras Originally by: Spaceman Jack As as a T2 inventor and producer, it just potentilly reduced my out of pocket expenses by at least 15% I suppose you're also mining all the minerals you need for building ships, because that reduces your costs . Of course it does. Any moron can see that. He's not paying a middleman markup, so his costs are reduced.
Cat o'Ninetails Caldari Rancer Defence League Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.04 16:04:00 - [27] Originally by: Kyusoath Orillian stick to defending rancer, you can't do this industry stuff x Fences? I'd be inclined to agree. My Facebook!
Stupid McStupidson Gallente Hoek Lyne and Sinker	Posted - 2010.06.04 16:13:00 - [28] Originally by: Rawr Cristina you know all that stuff in the fanfest vid we were teased about like districts and trade agreements and population management etc? and then seeing how it actually turned out? THAT is why Plus past history tells us that after Tyrannis, the PI content will never be touched again.
Jill Xelitras Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.04 16:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails My Facebook! hi cat, jill here.lol. you have your own facebook? wowzies,i'm impressed. i hope it looks at least as goods as the fence you builz and that you didn't make your facebook just because some bad person tried to 'hrmm' in your passage. i'm sure you saved loads of moneys by coding your own facebook. unfortunately what goes in real life is not how the eve economy worxes. ccp made it so that in eve you have to worry about opportunity cost and cargo holdz space stuff. and you cant mine in a hulk if you havent traind exhumation skill. you see no that in real life you didnt have to train a skill to built your fence or facebook, you just do it. if only eve was like that. x. (for xelitras, heh.lol.)
Kyusoath Orillian Haters Gonna Hate	Posted - 2010.06.04 16:14:00 - [30] Originally by: Bad Princess Originally by: Jill Xelitras Originally by: Spaceman Jack As as a T2 inventor and producer, it just potentilly reduced my out of pocket expenses by at least 15% I suppose you're also mining all the minerals you need for building ships, because that reduces your costs . Of course it does. Any moron can see that. He's not paying a middleman markup, so his costs are reduced. i will take the time to tell you why you are wrong. if want some EMP M i could mine the minerals and then build it, and my isk cost is just the fees for manufacturing job, so it costs virtually nothing right ? you lose. it costs whatever you could sell the minerals for. often it makes more financial sense to sell the minerals and buy the EMP M instead of using your own minerals. a lot of people in eve have made a fortune by knowing the cost per unit of an item and the mineral worth(the cost at current prices of the minerals in the item). if you produce your cheap EMP M and sell it cheaply cos those minerals you got didn't cost any isk, someone can buy that and reprocess it and sell the minerals for more than the 'cost' of that cheap emp m. its just as true if you don't sell the item you make (eg EMP M) , it has a worth exactly the same. so the minerals it took to make it, however you get thm are worth the same.(what they sell for). of course theres room for scamming and market manipulation(thanks to those guys in hek that buy my scourge HM at 22000 each cos its ammo right? its cheap you don't need to look at the price.) but dirty tricks do not change the fundamental worth of the materials used to build it. funny thing is i like people that think that there minerals are somehow cheaper because they mined them, because i buy their **** in the millions and sell it in the billions. x



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