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Love or Hate? An ECM Story

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Midnight Pheonix Hell's Horsemen -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.06.05 16:49:00 - [1] Just wanting to ask the general community how they feel about ECM and there role in pvp. How does it make you feel when that Falcon decloaks at range. How do you smack in local when your locked down. Or are you the guy who sits and ruins someones day by loring them into a false sense of security and jamming them once they've engaged. Fly Safe out there, Midna
Aliraxi Gallente Cow Boys From HeII	Posted - 2010.06.05 18:58:00 - [2] Love. Don't **** with me and jammarz. <3 locking people down "Ohey, you shot mah buddeh. jam Teehee." When that little 20s bar comes up I giggle like a schoolgirl Can I has a cookie?
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.06.05 20:44:00 - [3] Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 05/06/2010 20:44:51 Am I biased because I like to pilot a Rook or Scorpion in PvP? "WTH, they are not shooting back at us?!?!", was probably the most satisfying thing a corp mate has said. With the Scorpion I warp-in last at 100 km or more. I'm really surprised at how often people ignore me too long. I really hate sensor damps, and Interceptors with sensors damps are pure evil. Easily the best counter to long-range ECM.
Pajama Sam The Tuskers The Tusker Bastards	Posted - 2010.06.05 21:37:00 - [4] Hate it. I understand why it's in the game, but that doesn't make getting permajammed when trying to fight someone fun.
Persephone Astrid The Bastards	Posted - 2010.06.06 00:00:00 - [5] I love ECM. I love it even more when a Falcon uncloaks 10 km from my Scorpion and misses with its jammers. Sadly, this has only happened once. __________
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Final Agony B A N E	Posted - 2010.06.06 00:34:00 - [6] Ever since I bought this Jackal set I love seeing a falcon uncloak.
Cyan Cure	Posted - 2010.06.06 01:28:00 - [7] Originally by: Midnight Pheonix Just wanting to ask the general community how they feel about ECM and there role in pvp. I feel the same as i feel about your alliance's name.
Erin Kinkade	Posted - 2010.06.07 16:02:00 - [8] Edited by: Erin Kinkade on 07/06/2010 16:05:27 Love. ECM can easily win the day. ECM isn't unbeatable though. There's the obvioust ECCM. FOF missiles are also tricky. If an arazu decloaks nearby you're pretty screwed. Sensor dampeners are the rock to the ECM scissors in my opinion. ECM isn't perfect though. Even with good skills you're going to miss the occasional cycle. Funny ECM story: So I am by a gate in a scorpion, in hi sec. Then someone starts shooting me. This is someone I recently killed in the nearby lowsec so they had killrights on me. I believe it was a cruise missile launcher raven. I throw on a caldari jammer, failed, try my second caldari jammer, also failed. I then try both my multi-spec. They both fail. My scorp is low into it's shields now. Amarr jammer. Success! I'm out of there.
Kastera Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.06.07 16:47:00 - [9] ** the scorpion... seriously. Turtles faster than those things move. Unless it's a lolgang (and even then sometimes), I ALWAYS bring ewar on my roams. It's non-negotiable. Example. I was getting together a small lr bc fast-roaming gang to go from the north to the south and it turned into like 40 guys. People got **ed because I made us wait for a half hour until we had more EWAR and Logi with us. After about 45 minutes total of waiting, we had 4 blackbirds, 2 rooks and 2 falcons with 4 scimitars w/ ewar drones. We ended up finding a 30 man bc gang down in Insmother (I had a separate FC for calling ewar and logi targets). We killed 20 and lost only 1 ship. Point is their fleet comp didn't really matter when none of them could get a lock on us. EWAR and logi wins fights. Period. Unless you're Atlas, who refuses to bring either
David Reece Aurora Acclivitous EDGE Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.07 16:56:00 - [10] I think it is safe to say, anyone who knows me in game, knows what i fly most. ECM is a vital part of any PVP engagement. Anyone who says different is a damned fool! not just ECM.. EWAR in general will turn the tide of any engagement. I have heard people complaining about the use of ECM. ( hell people complain about anything when they loose their ships) and i really do not understand.. If you put together a fleet, and go looking for trouble, and dont bring some EWAR.. you can bet the trouble you find, will be packing some.. ECM is not really an option in pvp.. is a NEED!

Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2010.06.07 17:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 07/06/2010 17:12:37 ECM is the only reason I think warp core stabs shouldn't have the scan res penalty. ECCM doesn't do jack and for small gang you need every mid slot (can't waste on this mod that doesn't do much of anything). WCS would let us fly away from the transgender falcon player while our own gender identity will align with theirs for fitting WCS. edit: or even better let this autotargetting module let turret user do dps while jammed like FoF missile.
Kazuros	Posted - 2010.06.09 13:42:00 - [12] Love. Saved my Falcons ass last night when I got tackled by a cane whilst trying to save some corpmates. Got the jam off at 50% structure.
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.06.09 14:07:00 - [13] If you are outnumbered + the opposing gang has ECM, then it will be a pretty boring and an unproductive death for you. That's why I don't like ECMs.
UrMomLvsEmo	Posted - 2010.06.09 14:21:00 - [14] i just like to complain cause ecm owned me :)
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.06.09 16:55:00 - [15] Hate. With a vengeance. It is the only eWar where the pilot sometimes feels obligated to apologise for using it afterwards .. that in itself says everything there is to say, rest belongs in F&I. PS: EC-xxx drones needs to be removed or made into lock breakers .. way too good power ratio in those infernal things.
Michael Kuiper	Posted - 2010.06.09 17:49:00 - [16] We got owned by a falcon and 3 other tech II cruisers last night in a WH. 2 drakes and a mega lost, we couldnt lock the dang ships at point blank range. didnt put any damage on them whatsoever. Has me contemplating a different approach to things..
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2010.06.09 19:02:00 - [17] Love. Imho one of a few options for a small group to cope with blobs or larger groups - which is common. Some other options are nano tactics and heavy logistics maybe. But the latter leads to blobbing again if done right. @Some of the haters: there are several counters. We've used them. They work. Sometimes more, sometimes less... - Save the missiles from the glowing blob :S R ----------> * A --------> * V --------> * E -------> * N ---------> *
Serend Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.06.14 17:13:00 - [18] People who hate ECM are small-minded and unimaginative. There is also the matter of anti-Caldari racial bias...an ugly thing, to be sure.
Guilliman R Gallente PRO Space Hunters HUNTER'S BROTHERHOOD	Posted - 2010.06.14 17:39:00 - [19] Edited by: Guilliman R on 14/06/2010 17:40:11 ECM warfare has always interested me a lot. Edit* Found a guide, nm :)
Makumba Aki	Posted - 2010.06.17 12:05:00 - [20] ECM is imba. imho and should be nerfed or changed. Not because it is annoying to be jammed, but because it is very much stronger than any other EW.

Xiozor Green Void Inc	Posted - 2010.06.18 01:47:00 - [21] Edited by: Xiozor on 18/06/2010 01:49:08 Nothing can really be done about it now, but ECM should never have been introduced, the concept is silly and forcing players to be completely removed from the fight, unable to get on killboards or participate is boring, frustrating and bad gameplay. It is the perfect ship to make up for any actual skill. If I get jumped by 6 cruisers while I am solo'ing in a Harbinger it will be an epic fight and I would probably have a good chance of pulling off a win. If 2 of those are blackbirds on the other hand. Not so much. It is the be all and end all counter to everything. Infact the very best counter to an ECM Falcon is another ECM Falcon. I don't like how it can be so easily used to escape from an engagement. How many battleships have gotten away from me due to ECM drones? One is too many, CCP nerfed Warp Core Stabilizers so that there was some sort of drawback to easily escaping PvP. Why do ECM drones not give any sort of nerf? In high sec I have used an alt to suicide jam in a blackbird to allow me to escape from a fight that was going sour. Although, the only unfair fight is the one you lose. I am more than happy to fly with ECM on my side as it would be silly not to seize an advantage my opponents will. ECM should be changed so that instead of breaking locks, they just prevent high-slot modules from activating. That would still remove Damage and break RR circles, but would still allow tackle to be utilized. ----------------------------------------------- Mr.Kippling just launched a nuclear holocaust at third world countries! ... But he does make exceedingly good cakes.
AtheistOfFail	Posted - 2010.07.05 14:40:00 - [22] Originally by: Xiozor Edited by: Xiozor on 18/06/2010 01:49:08 Nothing can really be done about it now, but ECM should never have been introduced, the concept is silly and forcing players to be completely removed from the fight, unable to get on killboards or participate is boring, frustrating and bad gameplay. It is the perfect ship to make up for any actual skill. If I get jumped by 6 cruisers while I am solo'ing in a Harbinger it will be an epic fight and I would probably have a good chance of pulling off a win. If 2 of those are blackbirds on the other hand. Not so much. It is the be all and end all counter to everything. Infact the very best counter to an ECM Falcon is another ECM Falcon. I don't like how it can be so easily used to escape from an engagement. How many battleships have gotten away from me due to ECM drones? One is too many, CCP nerfed Warp Core Stabilizers so that there was some sort of drawback to easily escaping PvP. Why do ECM drones not give any sort of nerf? In high sec I have used an alt to suicide jam in a blackbird to allow me to escape from a fight that was going sour. Although, the only unfair fight is the one you lose. I am more than happy to fly with ECM on my side as it would be silly not to seize an advantage my opponents will. ECM should be changed so that instead of breaking locks, they just prevent high-slot modules from activating. That would still remove Damage and break RR circles, but would still allow tackle to be utilized. You have multiple counters. ECCM, Sensor booster (for IF you get unjammed ). My ECM ships have no tank, they can die to drones (has happened), and they can die to a well placed missile salvo or railgun salvo or whatever you use on highs. There's already lockbreaker ECM (ECM burst) but it's rarely used due to the uber high cycle time and cap requirements. ECM is all chance based so if i miss all the jams (rare), i'm sitting on a ship made of tissue paper. I'm sure what you know what to at that point :)
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.07.05 15:01:00 - [23] Originally by: AtheistOfFail There's already lockbreaker ECM (ECM burst) but it's rarely used due to the uber high cycle time and cap requirements. Its also likely to break friendly locks as well and make your team mad. Also in empire it has standings effects. So it's not really the best module all round, may be useful for solo boats that need to get away from stuff but that's about it. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.07.05 15:31:00 - [24] Hate it as a gameplay mechanism: "You are removed from combat and the game decides when you can join again. There is nothing you can do to influence this decision." It is also a great way to prevent fights. If you are faced with a superior force, normally you can see and try how many hostiles you can take down with you. If they have ECM, you can forget it and its better to just avoid fights entirely. Everybody wants to see exciting fights in which lots of people blow up. The advantage going back and forth. In ECM heavy fights there is often little going on, and rarely things going back and forth. Either the ECM wins the day, or it fails horribly and the ECM heavy fleet is massacred. In small gang fight especially, nothing discourages engagements more than the hostiles having one or a few ECM boats on the field. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Swatyy Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.07.05 20:58:00 - [25] I disapprove of ECM. In small scale combat, a single, skilled ECM boat can reasonably take down three cruiser class ships at a time within two cycles, which weighs heavily whenever a gang considers engaging. The thing I find most irksome is that even when an outnumbered/outmanned group does engage, the trade becomes even more lopsided. (e.g. three BCs might fall before they can kill even one cruiser) I'd put a stacking penalty on it or increase ECCM bonuses. --- Combat Videos: YouTube Latest Video: My Eve
Starbuck Caldari Goldadler Enterprises The Seventh Legion	Posted - 2010.07.05 23:32:00 - [26] Edited by: Starbuck on 05/07/2010 23:33:00 LOVE In some ways Sensor Dampners and Turret jammers are even more brutal than an ECM. ECM is just more multipurpose. Put all these EW type together and you can really screw someone over. I'm also learning to love Target Painters. A mod I used to overlook often. I don't think it's so good as to warrant an entire ship dedicated to it's use but It's a great little module. --------------------------------------------------- Have Rail's. Will travel.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.07.05 23:58:00 - [27] Originally by: Starbuck Edited by: Starbuck on 05/07/2010 23:33:00 LOVE In some ways Sensor Dampners and Turret jammers are even more brutal than an ECM. ECM is just more multipurpose. Put all these EW type together and you can really screw someone over. I'm also learning to love Target Painters. A mod I used to overlook often. I don't think it's so good as to warrant an entire ship dedicated to it's use but It's a great little module. The only issue I have with ECM is that the manner in which it works is out of sync with all the other e-wars. Which probably leads to a lot of the perceived problems with it. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Elton Murrow	Posted - 2010.07.06 03:45:00 - [28] Having done the ecm thing myself, I can say it's great when you're un-noticed; however it's pretty much useless when the rival FC knows about it (or figures it out on the fly, which good ones will). Not too much fun to get primaried all night when people wise up, so i've left that job to the newer pilots.
Garamond	Posted - 2010.07.06 04:11:00 - [29] That's why you should have your entire fleet fit ECM regardless of what they are flying. Hard to primary a whole fleet :)


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