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Morrigan Veratyr
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Posted - 2010.06.09 23:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Morrigan Veratyr on 09/06/2010 23:42:55
Edited by: Morrigan Veratyr on 09/06/2010 23:35:08
Edited by: Morrigan Veratyr on 09/06/2010 23:32:22
*Prepares for flames* - The content of this post does not reflect the views of my corporation nor anyone else except my own. It is just an idea although may be incredibly silly, implausible, or stupid and not well thought out. Probably the latter of these choices. Definitely the latter of these 3 choices.
I'll just jump right in here, but missiles suck for PVP. All of them with the exception of HAMs in some scenarios. You can contest this of course, but lemme know how your heavy missiles, cruise missiles, rockets, and light missiles work out for you. The main problem is not being able to instantly apply dps as you would be able to with the turret classes. Along with numerous other irritations such as rockets being.. wtf-is-this-broken-piece-of-****. And maybe either stupid cosmetic irritations such as the lack of launchers on the outside of your ship.. etc. etc.
How do i propose fixing these without f-king up the game real bad or whatever.
Change missile skills into turret skills and do away with missiles. Turrets with instantly applied DPS, like all the others-- but how do we make them unique?
....
Lightning. Turrets that sort of do a tesla coil strike on the target.
example: Linkage
you can make them pulse in animation like lasers but i think thats boring and is already being used. i like the idea of sustained dps. all the other turrets are done in volleys. make this one do continual dps. like your lil lightning bolt continuously going between you and your target until it dies. how do we not make this op? make it do smaaaaaaaallll amounts of damage instead of alot all at once.
Lets say x8 rack of 1400mm Artillery does 12000 damage every 10 seconds or whatever it would be in one volley.
An x8 rack of Tesla Coil turret things does 12000 damage every 10 seconds. BUT sustained incrementally. 1200 per second that it is active on the target. essentially the same thing when you calculate you dps from each volley using the artillery.
turrets are already in game just can rename them and add the animation. to compensate just make them cycle faster but do less damage to match the dps. this would fix the missile pvp issue i think. just substitute the missile range mechanic in place for the lightning gun mechanic. and everyone wins except the people that actually liked watching their missiles float to target. but what could be more fun than watching a lighting bolt hit your target? in the case of replacing rockets it could be a bunch of fast little lighting shocks. torpedoes get big fancy beam obviously. i would be enthralled to see a little vengeance zapping people like a bug zapper. and you could still make them do type specific damage like missiles depending on what **flashlight batteries you plug into the turret.
oh well. you guys get the point and im sure you can poke better holes in why this is a bad idea than i can currently come up with atm. like that its
not currently in game and they should fix whats already there. etc. etc. probably << that last one is the biggest issue. and i totally agree. but im tired of looking at whine threads so i thought id at least give some variety. even if it will never ever be implemented which would be okay as long as the rest is fixed.
anyway
/discuss 
edit: also i would totally use spoiler on the image. but seeing as im totally incompetent i dont know how. sorry. =( nvmd. got it.
and also this idea would probably produce lag but i hope not.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.09 23:43:00 -
[2]
torp ravens/phoons melt things in close range pvp.
HML drake is one of the top fleet BC to fight support that closes in.
cruise ravens are also nice in fleet or even small gang.
the instant hit is overrated in my cases. you just need FCs you know how to use missile boats.
oh and before i forget it ... <3 HML cerbs.
sorry ... but I doubt you have clue what you are talking about.
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Agony Etain
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Posted - 2010.06.09 23:47:00 -
[3]
Lets switch this completely around...
Why not make turrets have a few seconds until their "bullets" or ammo hits their mark just like missiles?
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Morrigan Veratyr
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Posted - 2010.06.09 23:51:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Morrigan Veratyr on 09/06/2010 23:52:07
do you? because there is a huge difference between turret boats and missile boats.
ham drake, ham cerb.
cruise ravens in fleet? yah wut? your target is dead before your missiles get there.
torps are good when youre point blank and your target isnt moving. anything beyond close range is no-go. with the exception of the cerberus again.
and @ agony. yep that could work. would be fine with that. but would **** off alot of people.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.06.09 23:55:00 -
[5]
yeah a stupid raven pilot shoots primaries. the smart one doesnt.
HAM cerb is one of the most stupid things you can do. HML cerb can use its range and a buffer tank to stay alive.
HAM drake. 700 dps/70k EHP BC. Lovely little beast.
but in gangs a HML drake with scimi support. that can kill carriers easily without loosing anything.
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Corina Jarr
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Posted - 2010.06.09 23:59:00 -
[6]
Missiles are great in PvP if the FC (and the person using them) has a brain.
Missile boats don't target primary. That is pure idiocy.
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Morrigan Veratyr
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Posted - 2010.06.10 00:02:00 -
[7]
that is true on the hml cerb. however i would still contend that focused fire on primaries in an opposing fleet will mop them up faster than splitting even any of your fleets potential big dps across multiple targets.
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Morrigan Veratyr
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Posted - 2010.06.10 00:11:00 -
[8]
hopefully some decent FC's will hop in and enlighten us about some of the things they see that work and what fails horribly and their take on how things could be tweaked a bit. not even my idea. i dont even care about that. just feels like missiles need to be brought up to speed. i used to use them quite frequently. but i got PO'd about having to stick to certain kinds of ships to be as good as the other races in that regard. then i just switched to amarr. easier. more cohesive with everyone else for the most part.
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Corina Jarr
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Posted - 2010.06.10 00:12:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Morrigan Veratyr
that is true on the hml cerb. however i would still contend that focused fire on primaries in an opposing fleet will mop them up faster than splitting even any of your fleets potential big dps across multiple targets.
The problem is in most large fleets (which is where missiles are considered useless) by concentrating on only one target, a large amount of dps is wasted. there are many times that spreading out some dps (ie missiles) increases overall effective dps.
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Morrigan Veratyr
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Posted - 2010.06.10 00:54:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Corina Jarr
Originally by: Morrigan Veratyr
that is true on the hml cerb. however i would still contend that focused fire on primaries in an opposing fleet will mop them up faster than splitting even any of your fleets potential big dps across multiple targets.
The problem is in most large fleets (which is where missiles are considered useless) by concentrating on only one target, a large amount of dps is wasted. there are many times that spreading out some dps (ie missiles) increases overall effective dps.
in either situation you run the risk of under doing it. or over doing it. dps wise. even by trying to balance it out by spreading the dps to get just the right amount the turrets will do better than missiles. because of the lack of traveling time on bullets/slugs.
ex. against 3-4 enemy ships. providing all things equal. although in eve they are never. lol. such as range.
turret ships primary a target. 4-5 seconds to get in range. 7 seconds to lock. (locking and getting in range could happen at the same time) then instant applied dps.
missile boat targets a secondary or tertiary target 7 seconds to lock and is already in range. 5-6 seconds for missile travel time.
this goes on for couple volleys. primary target dies.(maybe secondary target dies also) turret ships switch to secondary/tertiary target now they are either finishing the job that the missile boat started. or both the missile boat and the turret ships are left with targets to "compete" for that are in range for both of them. turret boats mop up. turret boats work slightly faster than missile boats do. so on the other guys after the initial engagement the missile boats are hitting considerably fewer targets in the same amount of time.
ofc not true for all situations. but you get what i mean. (i hope. XD)
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Misanthra
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Posted - 2010.06.10 01:37:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Misanthra on 10/06/2010 01:37:14
Originally by: darius mclever
yeah a stupid raven pilot shoots primaries. the smart one doesnt.
qft....missiles can work, shift 2-3 targets from where FC is starting.
Small encounters suck (less than 5 targets), go for SB II, res scripts, high skills and cross fingers. Beat out instant damage gun lovers to a solo target once or twice in a drake (me and the point inty only ones on mail :) .
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Ocih
Amarr
The Program
Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2010.06.10 07:25:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Ocih on 10/06/2010 07:25:45
Missles aren't silver bullets but neither is anything else in EvE.
I can undock an Abso and be a deadly weapon untill 2 Vaga and a Muninn show up. Then I might as well and do dock up an Abso. My alternative now becomes a Damnation and missles designed to kill a Vaga.
Falcons make any ship on its own useless.
For rockets, I thought the Hawk had a rocket bonus, (or one of the Cal frigates) I dont see them any more so they gave up. Rockets would still make a nice drone killer alternative to smart bombs if it was applied like any other spec. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.06.10 07:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Morrigan Veratyr
I'll just jump right in here, but missiles suck for PVP. All of them with the exception of HAMs in some scenarios.
Facepalm.
Originally by: Morrigan Veratyr
It is just an idea although may be incredibly silly, implausible, or stupid and not well thought out. Probably the latter of these choices. Definitely the latter of these 3 choices.
More like all of them.
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Th155
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Posted - 2010.06.10 07:49:00 -
[14]
/me watches as OP and every other post completely forgets to mention PvE, where missiles come to par with everything else.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.06.10 07:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: darius mclever
torp ravens/phoons melt things in close range pvp.
HML drake is one of the top fleet BC to fight support that closes in.
cruise ravens are also nice in fleet or even small gang.
the instant hit is overrated in my cases. you just need FCs you know how to use missile boats.
oh and before i forget it ... <3 HML cerbs.
sorry ... but I doubt you have clue what you are talking about.
Ha, you think you're so clever. But you forgot the AML Cara didn't you... you know you did, admit it and be redeemed.
Otherwise ..This! tbh.
Missiles are fine (rockets could do with a look at imo), they are simply a different flavour to turrets, used in the right recipe they are highly palatable.
Peace.
----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva
Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Max Tux
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Posted - 2010.06.10 10:50:00 -
[16]
stop flying as part of a large blob, and you will see missiles are awesome, find me a ship that can attack anything on grid, doing the same DPS at 250km and at 0km? Cerb. find me a BC that can engage upto 70KM and still field a decent tank and go to zero, and still do good DPS? Drake. One of the best cruisers for killing frigs? AML caracal.
As soon as you run from the blob, and start doing proper PVP, solo or small (>15) gang, you will realised there is more to the game than F1, F2, in a small gang a cerb is an anti-everything ship. Tackle, Battleships, even falcons at 250km would have to warp out or die quickly.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2010.06.10 11:18:00 -
[17]
A lot of things in this game 'suck' for PVP. Does not mean they should be removed.
If you dont like missiles, then dont use them.
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Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer
"I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!"
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr
GK inc.
Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.06.10 11:20:00 -
[18]
There is more to eve than 256 man sniper blobs duking it out at 200km. Surprisingly, it's there where missiles are actually viable.
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Archon Grimnir
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Posted - 2010.06.10 22:36:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Archon Grimnir on 10/06/2010 22:36:06
 we already talked about this ad nauseum pub chat. fix rockets that is all.
her ceo confirming she is the village idiot.
now get back in the kitchen. 
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Jillian Moreau
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Posted - 2010.06.10 22:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Archon Grimnir
Edited by: Archon Grimnir on 10/06/2010 22:36:06
we already talked about this ad nauseum pub chat. fix rockets that is all.
her ceo confirming she is the village idiot.
now get back in the kitchen.
lawl. pwnt. 
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Misanthra
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Posted - 2010.06.10 22:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Th155
/me watches as OP and every other post completely forgets to mention PvE, where missiles come to par with everything else.
actually better, no range based performance. Got the mission that dumps you so close to the rats you can see them waving to you from the bridge of their BS...doesn't matter. Just have to worry about tank till you clear the field u0p enough they can't push the shields hard. Want to warp in 70 km's, 180 and kite the bs' while popping the frigs with drones....again doesn't matter.
All below raven gets easy with ammo selection as well, kinetic. Bonuses with good ship skills...don't even need ammo based on racial weakness. Very useful trick on mixed missions (gallente gets some minny usually, some lv 4 forget the name brings at least 2-3 rat types).
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