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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.07.01 13:38:00 -
[31]
Considering only a small fraction of players currently have their extractors on the actual hotspots, I would say yes, it is worth it :)
Though you might be satisfied with the current output rate, it is interesting to see clusters of people with extractors not on the actual hotspots and all grouped to the side of it showing they all used a similar skill level when scanning.
We just started seeing the use of higher band accurate scans these past few days which should of course increase with time as skills are leveled up.
Of course you can experiment using sampling by repositioning your extractors if the cost is no object as an alternative route.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.07.01 14:30:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Considering only a small fraction of players currently have their extractors on the actual hotspots, I would say yes, it is worth it :)
Though you might be satisfied with the current output rate, it is interesting to see clusters of people with extractors not on the actual hotspots and all grouped to the side of it showing they all used a similar skill level when scanning.
We just started seeing the use of higher band accurate scans these past few days which should of course increase with time as skills are leveled up.
Of course you can experiment using sampling by repositioning your extractors if the cost is no object as an alternative route.
Oddly enough, even with both Planetology 4 and Adv. Planetology 4 I still seem to end up with slightly higher extraction rates just off-centre from the hotspots. I'd imagine I'd be able to get pretty close to the actual hotspots with those 2 at level 4.
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Reyna Neens
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:32:00 -
[33]
I didn't take advantage of the time between the skills being available and the time command centers were avaialbe to train up my skills, so I was happy enough with planetology 3 and around 1500 extracted on 23 hour cycles in null sec early on. However, now that I had time to get adv. planetology 3, I did rescan and find hotspots closer to 1800s. Even then, I still needed to do some "fishing" to try to get closer to the real hotspot (which I may or may not have but I'm happy enough).
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Marcus Gideon
Gallente
Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2010.07.01 15:50:00 -
[34]
I started PI with Pl 3. Then rearranged my colonies after I'd finished getting Adv 3.
I still don't see the point of these "hot spots". I can drop extractors dead center on the whitest points, and get 1700 (in a WH).
Then I move them around between red and orange bands, and get 2100+.
So apparently the "hot spots" aren't the highest concentrations after all. |
Lord Popnfresh
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Posted - 2010.07.01 16:02:00 -
[35]
That's because you're not seeing the hotspot, as the blue said, what you're seeing as the hotspot is actually next to or nearby it.
Also, Chronotis any chance you could confirm/deny/"wink wink nudge nudge" my inquiry on if the heat bar independent of the general resource concentrations or if the general resource bar is treated like a sorta multiplier.
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NAIRA HOKULANI
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Posted - 2010.07.01 17:33:00 -
[36]
I have Planetoloy 5 and Advanced Planetology 4 soon to be a 5.
I also see way too many extractors off the hot spot or in some case way off the hot spot.
IMHO these are two skills that need to be at level 5.
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Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.07.02 00:07:00 -
[37]
What's not been mentioned yet is that, with higher levels, you'll have a better chance of finding closer P0 'pairs.'
Example - I have two characters making Coolant on the same Storm planet. The character with 'meta' L8 (4/4) has a 'long link' for his 2nd material that's nearly half the length of the other character (with no levels at all). It's giving him slightly better extraction, since he found an 'unused' pair that's closer together.
The same 4/4 character also found a P0 pair for nanites that were practically touching each other.
It would appear that the skills will make colony layout more efficient. It's something I have planned for myself and the other primary char, later on; Most of the 'big' work is being done with dedicated characters for now (as the investment in colonies tend to make you 'stick' to an area).
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2010.07.02 02:20:00 -
[38]
Hilarious example of why Advanced Planetology matters:
http://imgur.com/vqzLn
This is 5 different players networks. There are four better hotspots on the other side of the planet.
I only have 4/4, and already it makes a big difference. I am considering 5/5. It feels like there are secret hotspots that are undetectable with out higher levels. Neat mechanic.
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Johnny cruz
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Posted - 2010.07.02 02:57:00 -
[39]
Originally by: NAIRA HOKULANI
I have Planetoloy 5 and Advanced Planetology 4 soon to be a 5.
I also see way too many extractors off the hot spot or in some case way off the hot spot.
IMHO these are two skills that need to be at level 5.
Or, get 4/3 and use the brail method. Costs you maybe 500k per planet extra to place extractors and delete them, but you save 3 weeks of training time.
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Celia Therone
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Posted - 2010.07.02 04:45:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Fritz Ionar
Originally by: Lord Popnfresh
This brings up a question I'm having caused by another thread I saw.
What is more important, the general planetary scan bars, the heat bar, or a combination of both?
I.E given 3 random lava planets
A) has felsic magma at 5% on the general scan bar, but it has a white dot at 95%
B) has felsic magma at 95% on the general scan bar, but it's highest white dot is at 20%
C) some combination of the both (aka, screw it they multiply each other to some rate which makes conclusively saying which you should look for more of a pain and you'll only really know by randomly placing CC's and extractors)
I'm wondering if the preliminary scans I did of some systems where I recorded the general bars was pointless since I should have been noting the highest white spot.
If it is B, then would http://www.eve-ivy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Good_Planets be relatively useless?
I'd say it's A. The "general scan bar" as you describe it only tells you how much is on the planet, not how it is distributed.
It can be very high but distributed evenly acros the entire surface resulting in very poor extraction rates no mater where you place extractors. On the other hand a very small amount on a planet might be concentrated to just a few spots giving good extraction rates there.
I did a scan of numerous planets (over 100) noting the general scan bar for each mineral. Then I went back and did the same for sliders for many of them.
Upshot:
The general scan bar is pretty worthless. On one of my low sec gas planets with a low general bar I did a precision scan and hit a hot spot yielding 2547 on 23 hour (reactive gas) dropped down to 2540 after a couple of days. My higher general band planet didn't come close to that.
It does vary with resource type though. Reactive Gas tends to have very hot hotspots, whereas Noble Gas has more diffuse bands. The diffuse bands presumably have a better relationship to the general resource scan bar, the spiky hot spot materials you can pretty much ignore the general bar.
Sec status is everything. If you're going to operate in low sec go to 0.1.
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L0ngSh0t
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Posted - 2010.07.02 06:47:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Considering only a small fraction of players currently have their extractors on the actual hotspots, I would say yes, it is worth it :)
Though you might be satisfied with the current output rate, it is interesting to see clusters of people with extractors not on the actual hotspots and all grouped to the side of it showing they all used a similar skill level when scanning.
We just started seeing the use of higher band accurate scans these past few days which should of course increase with time as skills are leveled up.
Of course you can experiment using sampling by repositioning your extractors if the cost is no object as an alternative route.
Well it doesn't help that CCP Incognito gave out some bad info. It should be noted that the skill descriptions mirror this bad info. Precision and accuracy are not the same thing. Nobody who knows the difference would have any reason to believe the actual hotspot would lie outside their survey field. And as for the reported "secret" high-yield hotspots only visible at higher skill levels... Well that just doesn't jive with either accuracy or precision (or common sense). And neither CCP Incognito's post nor the skill descriptions mention anything about chance of detection.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.07.02 07:24:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Dr BattleSmith on 02/07/2010 07:25:35
They really need to stop using babelfish to do their skill descriptions.
What with ya of gonna of bell of your area strange?
If something, and incomprehensibility or you do not look at ya of gonna of the bell where we are good,
the destructive person of illusion?
Destructive Persons of Illution! Ghostbusters!
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Considering only a small fraction of players currently have their extractors on the actual hotspots, I would say yes, it is worth it :)
Um no.... that shows that we have decided we don't need it cause it's not worth it.
If PI didn't suck for clickfest gameplay then maybe we'd bother.
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Ulviirala Vauryndar
Gallente
Vauryndar Dalharil
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Posted - 2010.07.02 18:02:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Ulviirala Vauryndar on 02/07/2010 18:02:48
After working only with Planetology levels III and IV at first, and then Advanced Planetology III, I plan on raising it to level IV as well. Adv/ Planetology is TOTALLY worth it, especially when the abundancies are higher. The accuracy rises significantly and I can pull 3600+u/15min now ;)
Admitted you can brute force your extractors (I did that before. Place two and branch then in a Y shape from the one that extracts more), remove the ones you started with and add new ones towards the hot spot, but that costs you a hell lot of ISK. Much much more than the 7.5 mil ISK for the skill if you do that on like 5 planets.
Extracting the maximum possible amounts may very well result into needing one or two extractors less than before, which is just the right number to fit the right amount of processors (e.g. 5x3600/15min = 36000u/30min = 12 basic facilities) sometimes. But that's really just if you're micromanaging the **** out of it 
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Benco97
Gallente
Carpe Diem inc.
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Posted - 2010.07.02 19:10:00 -
[44]
I may as well take them all to V, it's not as if I've got much else to train and they DO make a difference, even "brute forcing" my way around a planet to where I thought the best spots were I found with higher levels of this skill I was sometimes WAY off the mark.
______________________________________________
Originally by: P'uck
You're a DUMBASS - bold italic underline at the VERY LEAST.
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2010.07.02 19:15:00 -
[45]
I have both up to level 4. It's helped out in finding better spots, but I've found sometimes those hot spots are completely misleading. I've put extractors on a bright white spot, dead center and got 25k (planet had very little of this particular resource) per 23 hours. But I then moved it to a pinkish/red spot nearby and it had 30k per 23 hours.
So you still can't count on it 100%. Unfortunately, the plop and scan method would probably work best after you identify a good area. Assume any nearby high spots are good and throw one down to check it's extraction levels.
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2010.07.02 23:35:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Lord Popnfresh
Also, Chronotis any chance you could confirm/deny/"wink wink nudge nudge" my inquiry on if the heat bar is independent of the general resource concentrations or if the general resource bar is treated like a sorta multiplier.
the gauges as we refer to them internally use a gausian sampling of the planet to obtain an indication of the sampled resource quality. They are meant to give an approximate indication of the resource quality between 0 and max so you can see at a glance if it has the resource you are looking for.
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Directors Assistant
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.07.03 02:40:00 -
[47]
The difference between not having learned the skill and having rainbows 3 + advanced rainbows 3 is glaring.
Of more concern than the exact centre of a hotspot, which is at most short walk away; is the comparison of the relative heat of hotspots - the low skill picture is 'humourously inaccurate'.
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Veliria
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Posted - 2010.07.03 13:13:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Lord Popnfresh
Also, Chronotis any chance you could confirm/deny/"wink wink nudge nudge" my inquiry on if the heat bar is independent of the general resource concentrations or if the general resource bar is treated like a sorta multiplier.
the gauges as we refer to them internally use a gausian sampling of the planet to obtain an indication of the sampled resource quality. They are meant to give an approximate indication of the resource quality between 0 and max so you can see at a glance if it has the resource you are looking for.
The Planetology skill could be a little bit more accurate though.
I got Planetology and Adv. Planetology to IV and a lot of specific hotspots (i keep narrowing down till I get only a single white spot as the highest deposit) are still off considerably.
Sometimes the really good deposit are way off to the side of the white spot rather than in it's center.
Is there a secret buff hidden within Planetology/Adv. Planetology V or is it working as intended?
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Fritz Ionar
Minmatar
LifeLine Solutions
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Posted - 2010.07.03 13:26:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Veliria
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
the gauges as we refer to them internally use a gausian sampling of the planet to obtain an indication of the sampled resource quality. They are meant to give an approximate indication of the resource quality between 0 and max so you can see at a glance if it has the resource you are looking for.
The Planetology skill could be a little bit more accurate though.
I got Planetology and Adv. Planetology to IV and a lot of specific hotspots (i keep narrowing down till I get only a single white spot as the highest deposit) are still off considerably.
Sometimes the really good deposit are way off to the side of the white spot rather than in it's center.
Is there a secret buff hidden within Planetology/Adv. Planetology V or is it working as intended?
You still got 2 levels to go to max, why should your scans be more acurate? What would then be the point of training the skills any futher?
I'll have planetology at lvl V in about an hour (allready have adv. planetology lvl IV), it will be most interesting to se what it can do for my colonies 
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onyu
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Posted - 2010.07.08 08:17:00 -
[50]
I got 2 cents on advanced planetology for ya:
I have my main PI toon at lvl 4, currently training 5
Another at lvl 3
The last one only has planetology 3, since I can place a basic command center with a few extractors with my main PI toon, to mark the good spots for the other toons.
In theory..
Till I found that advanced planetology 3 finds the hotspots more precisely than advanced planetology 4 does!!
It does not more or other ones, just shifted ones, and the shift from lvl 4 of the skill makes your first extractor placement worse than lvl 3 of the skill.
Still training 5, in hopes there's some benefit from it, commensurate to the time it takes to train.
But having not tested lvl 5 yet, I'd have to say this:
Advanced planetology lvl 3 beats levels 1, 2 and 4, and it beats just having plain planetology.
Your mileage may vary, but I've tested 3 vs 4 on many planets in many spots by now - specifically spots with nothing built on them yet, to avoid distorting the results.
I took screenshots too, just haven't figured out where to upload them yet, but Letrange's blog might be a good place, I'm gonna ask him, I think...
Madness is taking its toll, please have exact change ready. |
EvilCheez
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Posted - 2010.07.08 20:48:00 -
[51]
If you are running PI with multiple characters, you only need one that can scan. That one can place basic command centers for the others to key on.
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