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CCP SUPPORTS Macro Mining

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Kohana Chayton Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.16 03:42:00 - [1] Over the years I have been in EVE I have noticed one thing. it doesn't matter how many Macro miner's you report, they rarely get removed or banned by CCP. I've been watching a number of very obvious macro runners. No doubt in my mind they are exactly what I have said they are. You don't bump a player 105km off the belt, and they keep trying to get back to the belt.... for over an hour, Any normal player would warp to another belt. Pretty obvious, if unsophisticated macro behavior. The other obvious macro miners I have seen (sorry, but few people mine 23 hours a day 7 days a week, and the behavior is entirely to 'regular' to be anything BUT a macro.) are still around, even after being reported. Repeatedly. So my conclusion? CCP pays poor lip service to their own EULA and does Virtually NOTHING to stop known, proven Macro runners (until the screaming by the players reaches a point that they have to do something to save face). CCP by paying lip service to their own EULA and NOT banning these characters and accounts, has deliberately allowed the mining profession to be the worthless garbage it is today. So those honest players who mine to make a living, are at best third class citizens due to CCP obviously looking the other way where Macro Miners are concerned. I don't care what any of you EULA violators say to try and sugar wash what your doing, but the fact is, not a damn one of you can stay up, 23/7 mining, day after day, week after week, month after month. I have insomnia terribly bad and can't do it. But you sure can mine, constantly, all the time, without stopping, ever, right. Sure. Anything you say. CCP needs to step up and actually start Banning macro miners. Not hard to figure out who they are. Just look for the guys mining 23/7/4. Prety good indication that what you have there is a player running a Macro. KC Originally by: CCP Zymurgist OK everyone, please play nicely. There is no need to start getting angry or show off your Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Troll impression.
Grideris Gallente Fleet Coordination Commission	Posted - 2010.06.16 04:02:00 - [2] In the scope of RMT, the Macro Miners are the little fish - the first step. What CCP want are the big fish, the ones behind the operation. So what they do, they take the reports, monitor, and when they think they have traced it back to the head of the snake, they rip the entire infection out at once. Clean, simple, and leaving no nasty bit to regrow and continue offering Money for ISK (besides for PLEX - but that is after all legit). You can only kill the infection at the source, not the ends.
Larinioides cornutus	Posted - 2010.06.16 04:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Larinioides cornutus on 16/06/2010 04:08:35 Originally by: Grideris So what they do, they take the reports, monitor, and when they think they have traced it back to the head of the snake, they rip the entire infection out at once. Clean, simple, and leaving no nasty bit to regrow and continue offering Money for ISK Do you have any proof of them doing that? As far as I know, CCP only kill off macro miners once they have paid enough sub or to keep from legitimate miners ragequitting due to fubar income or ways to much competitions. Macro miners are very effective at keeping material and pos fuel price low. (And when PI starts being remotely profitable, that as well)
Kohana Chayton Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.16 04:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Grideris In the scope of RMT, the Macro Miners are the little fish - the first step. What CCP want are the big fish, the ones behind the operation. So what they do, they take the reports, monitor, and when they think they have traced it back to the head of the snake, they rip the entire infection out at once. Clean, simple, and leaving no nasty bit to regrow and continue offering Money for ISK (besides for PLEX - but that is after all legit). You can only kill the infection at the source, not the ends. No offense but that is a fail argument from top to bottom. Here is why. Without a SOURCE for their RMT (i.e. the isk provided from macro runners) then the RMT operators can't run their business. No isk sent to their pockets means no isk to sell, means their profit goes bye bye. Kill the source, you kill the problem. Once the body is dead, guess what.. the head dies as well. Not to mention the simple fact that macro miners by their very actions, impact players who try to play within the rules of the game. You can't compete against a machine, and so a profession within EVE becomes worthles when it could otherwise be viable and profitable. Originally by: CCP Zymurgist OK everyone, please play nicely. There is no need to start getting angry or show off your Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Troll impression.
1Ekrid1	Posted - 2010.06.16 04:12:00 - [5] just buy plexes and wardec macro miners or people who buy from macro miners.
ghosttr Amarr Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.06.16 05:16:00 - [6] I agree, CCP is bent on getting rid of RMT. And only go after macros if and only if they are a part of RMT. So as long as you dont RMT feel free to get a macro and run it yourself, b/c CCP only will target RMT-macroes, not player-run macroes. The only way I can see CCP putting serious effort into anti-macro is for everybody and thier dog to fukn macro, until the problem is so in CCPs face that they must deal with it. Even then they might not give a **, even if everybody is using them. I mean who cares if everybody using a macro that means more $$ for CCP. CCP could give a ** less about how the gams runs as long as it means $$ for them, and thier blatant tolerance for macroes is proof of this. We all hope it will change but we know it wont. Prospecting!
Herateis	Posted - 2010.06.16 07:15:00 - [7] Originally by: ghosttr I agree, CCP is bent on getting rid of RMT. And only go after macros if and only if they are a part of RMT. So as long as you dont RMT feel free to get a macro and run it yourself, b/c CCP only will target RMT-macroes, not player-run macroes. The only way I can see CCP putting serious effort into anti-macro is for everybody and thier dog to fukn macro, until the problem is so in CCPs face that they must deal with it. Even then they might not give a **, even if everybody is using them. I mean who cares if everybody using a macro that means more $$ for CCP. CCP could give a ** less about how the gams runs as long as it means $$ for them, and thier blatant tolerance for macroes is proof of this. We al l hope it will change but we know it wont. hai guyz the sky be falling.
Sisohiv	Posted - 2010.06.16 07:24:00 - [8] Most of them are in Macrinaws. The truth is a Macro wouldnt run in high sec for a full day. They would run out of ore inside of 4 hrs. I've done Mining nights. My best is 3 hrs. After that I want to jump from a 4 story building. Its why I get frustrated when they nerf active content.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.16 07:51:00 - [9] Quote: No offense but that is a fail argument from top to bottom. Audrey Bitany school girl would like to talk with you about the alternate ways RMT'ers get their ISK. And before people start whining CCP makes their money with macro subs, lets say every macro is banned and no more RMT'ers. Then suddenly all ISK buyers got to use plexes, plexes are bought from CCP, all profit goes to CCP. While now most profit goes to the ones running the macros.
Larinioides cornutus	Posted - 2010.06.16 08:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Furb Killer Audrey Bitany school girl would like to talk with you about the alternate ways RMT'ers get their ISK. Sure, bring her over and see what she has to say. Originally by: Furb Killer And before people start whining CCP makes their money with macro subs, lets say every macro is banned and no more RMT'ers. Then suddenly all ISK buyers got to use plexes, plexes are bought from CCP, all profit goes to CCP. While now most profit goes to the ones running the macros. Macros do not pay real money for their sub. It's much more economic for them to just buy plex. Let's say all macro are banned, suddenly the only people buying plex are legitimate players. This lead to drop in plex price and people might sell less plex because it's no longer profitable.
Cathy Drall Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.06.16 09:11:00 - [11] Edited by: Cathy Drall on 16/06/2010 09:13:01 I agree 100% with the OP. When Tyrannis was released, CCP had changed some things that would need the bot/marco users to adjust their scripts. What I noticed is that the belts where I usually mine were (as good as) EMPTY. Even before the next DT hardly any asteroids were touched. Four or five days later they started to reappear and now it's the same as always, all the belts are stripped bare in a matter of a hours. So not sure if CCP allows them or whatever but whatever they do, it's not really effective. Originally by: Larinioides cornutus Macros do not pay real money for their sub. It's much more economic for them to just buy plex. Let's say all macro are banned, suddenly the only people buying plex are legitimate players. This lead to drop in plex price and people might sell less plex because it's no longer profitable. You find that a valid reason to allow botters in your game? Really?
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.06.16 09:20:00 - [12] Originally by: Larinioides cornutus Macros do not pay real money for their sub. It's much more economic for them to just buy plex. Let's say all macro are banned, suddenly the only people buying plex are legitimate players. This lead to drop in plex price and people might sell less plex because it's no longer profitable. Is it really too much to ask to read the post you just quoted? When RMT macros are banned, the ISK buyers need to use plexes to get their ISK -> CCP sells more plexes -> CCP makes more profit. When 'normal' macros are banned, the owners of those accounts need plexes to get their ISK -> CCP sells more plexes -> CCP makes more profit. Yes when more plexes are sold the prices will drop, but that again leads to more people buying plexes.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.06.16 09:22:00 - [13] There's an ex-BOB corp macro ice mining in Choga, they're very obvious about it (you can keep flipping their ice cans for an hour, they will keep dropping new ones without issue). I've visited them several times now over a 2 week period, they're always there. Petitioned twice, last time well over a month ago. Guess what, they're still macro icemining. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service
Spectre80 Caldari The Knights Templar R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.06.16 09:48:00 - [14] Edited by: Spectre80 on 16/06/2010 09:49:44 Originally by: Marko Riva There's an ex-BOB corp macro ice mining in Choga, they're very obvious about it (you can keep flipping their ice cans for an hour, they will keep dropping new ones without issue). I've visited them several times now over a 2 week period, they're always there. Petitioned twice, last time well over a month ago. Guess what, they're still macro icemining. sounds like free ice for anyone with hauler. just go there and haul it for yourself. profit. edit for: and yes i hate macroers. they are s****of eve and should all be purged.
Gavjack Bunk	Posted - 2010.06.16 09:51:00 - [15] If they were to introduce another way of making pos fuel, maybe some sort of system that can be ran from sitting in dock, you wouldn't be able to see the macros at work and they wouldn't have to deal with petitions and these sorts of threads, they would effectively hide the problem instead of dealing with it.
Cathy Drall Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.06.16 10:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Gavjack Bunk If they were to introduce another way of making pos fuel, maybe some sort of system that can be ran from sitting in dock, you wouldn't be able to see the macros at work and they wouldn't have to deal with petitions and these sorts of threads, they would effectively hide the problem instead of dealing with it. Yes why not make POS fuel free or make them not require fuel at all? Still leaves us the mineral macro miners ofc ...
Hemp Invader GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.06.16 10:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Marko Riva There's an ex-BOB corp macro ice mining in Choga, they're very obvious about it (you can keep flipping their ice cans for an hour, they will keep dropping new ones without issue). I've visited them several times now over a 2 week period, they're always there. Petitioned twice, last time well over a month ago. Guess what, they're still macro icemining. If you make a macro that steals from macro cans...would it still be against eula?
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.06.16 10:20:00 - [18] CCP also supports Hulkageddon 3 draw thine own conclusions...
Lividicus Caldari Caldari Provisions - PvP Division	Posted - 2010.06.16 10:24:00 - [19] If you dont like it. Fix it yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m-BO8yJ47A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLFbuMILmnI
Derelicht	Posted - 2010.06.16 12:15:00 - [20] "CCP SUPPORTS Macro Mining". Or more accurately; CCP SUPPORTS making money. And macroers pay, too.
Natalie Caladan Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2010.06.16 12:29:00 - [21] Originally by: Derelicht "CCP SUPPORTS Macro Mining". Or more accurately; CCP SUPPORTS making money. And macroers pay, too. Yes. What about macro mission runners? It would be perfect if we could do everything afk! Why not make EVE the Big Botting Game? As long as everyone pays?!
HowardStern	Posted - 2010.06.16 12:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Spectre80 Edited by: Spectre80 on 16/06/2010 09:49:44 Originally by: Marko Riva There's an ex-BOB corp macro ice mining in Choga, they're very obvious about it (you can keep flipping their ice cans for an hour, they will keep dropping new ones without issue). I've visited them several times now over a 2 week period, they're always there. Petitioned twice, last time well over a month ago. Guess what, they're still macro icemining. sounds like free ice for anyone with hauler. just go there and haul it for yourself. profit. Crap, I wish I wasn't at work, I'd send an alt over to grab some freebies. On an unrelated note, well it's related I guess, is there a channel where such ice-miners giving away free stuff are tracked/reported for the rest of us to "help" with hauling?
Musical Fist Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:06:00 - [23] Actually if CCP removed bots / macros they would directly make more money which they are aware off but it isnt as simple as banning people (comparing to RL) Prices would sky rocket and so more people would be buying plexes / GTC Eitherway Macros are the source of all problems, market issues, lag issues, spam issues -- Emo TraderJohn's Number 1 Fan!!
Matalino	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Larinioides cornutus Originally by: Grideris So what they do, they take the reports, monitor, and when they think they have traced it back to the head of the snake, they rip the entire infection out at once. Clean, simple, and leaving no nasty bit to regrow and continue offering Money for ISK Do you have any proof of them doing that? Yes!
Derelicht	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:22:00 - [25] Originally by: Musical Fist Actually if CCP removed bots / macros they would directly make more money which they are aware off but it isnt as simple as banning people (comparing to RL) Prices would sky rocket and so more people would be buying plexes / GTC Eitherway Macros are the source of all problems, market issues, lag issues, spam issues Prices of what would sky rocket?
1Ekrid1	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:34:00 - [26] Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 16/06/2010 13:36:42 Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Larinioides cornutus Macros do not pay real money for their sub. It's much more economic for them to just buy plex. Let's say all macro are banned, suddenly the only people buying plex are legitimate players. This lead to drop in plex price and people might sell less plex because it's no longer profitable. Is it really too much to ask to read the post you just quoted? When RMT macros are banned, the ISK buyers need to use plexes to get their ISK -> CCP sells more plexes -> CCP makes more profit. When 'normal' macros are banned, the owners of those accounts need plexes to get their ISK -> CCP sells more plexes -> CCP makes more profit. Yes when more plexes are sold the prices will drop, but that again leads to more people buying plexes. someone doesnt understand economics. youer missing the point. People sell plex because you get a lot of ISK for it. a plex is roughly 15$ no matter what, but what its worth in EVE can go from 150-300 mil isk depending on the other factors. more people sell plex because they like the idea of their 15$ going very far in isk terms. Les people will sell when plex is worth much less to sell, because they find that trade a worse value for their real life earned $. it looks like its up to an established group to deal with macro miners. We should make this group and build up a infrastructure and get a chat room in eve to quickly deal with them. Im all for it cause I'd love to gank me some macroers. There's 1, repeat 1, frigate in the T1 lineup designed to be a suicide tackler. the rest are for COMBAT. so don't tell me to tackle when I'm in a combat T1 frig. OR tell CCP to fix their mess.
Zeuth Proxy Caldari Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:38:00 - [27] Edited by: Zeuth Proxy on 16/06/2010 13:40:28 For those of you who think that banning all macro miners will cause a increase in price/sales of GTCs/Plexes then you haven't been in that market very long. When Unholy Rage hit the GTC market TANKED. Prices went down almost 30% and at times it took acouple hours to sell a GTC where as before it took minutes. While I dont agree with macro miners saying the CCP will make more money from banning them is false.. If the macros where banned Plex prices will tank agian to the point where it will be unprofitable for people to pay $$ for Isk. Not only that most RMT companys use shady tactics. If some of you remember the Audrey Bitoni spree.. Keylogging is widly used in almost all MMOs shortly after the company takes a "stance" on these RMT companys.. If they cant make money ingame they will steal someone elses wallet to make it. Tbh if companies wanna make RMTs go away they need to find away to make $$-->IGM more profitable so people who do buy isk go to CCP instead of RMTs. edit: Above someone mentioned about CCP changing something with Tyrannis to stop them.. What they changed was they removed wide-screen ability which obviously didn't work since macros have already modified their scripts to compensate.
kurg	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:40:00 - [28] Another example of natural selection, its amazing how many cry babies Eve's community has!
Brutuz Caldari	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:45:00 - [29] Show me an MMO that has no eastern Botters / farmers in it ? The gamedesign should enable the "regular" players to profit from botters deaths (no matter what game), it cant be that hard to identify and flag them...
Musical Fist Gallente The Unknown Bar and Pub	Posted - 2010.06.16 13:47:00 - [30] Originally by: Derelicht Originally by: Musical Fist Actually if CCP removed bots / macros they would directly make more money which they are aware off but it isnt as simple as banning people (comparing to RL) Prices would sky rocket and so more people would be buying plexes / GTC Eitherway Macros are the source of all problems, market issues, lag issues, spam issues Prices of what would sky rocket? Everything that requires minerals (which is everything) mining may become profitable again, fact of the matter is CCP have hinted towards changing mining to actually make it fun, so really the only other problem is macro ratters / haulers. Not to brown nose CCP here but almost every ISK seller site is linked to XXXXX.com (censored for security reasons) theres easy ways to check what is linked to what. This site is designed purely to buy and sell RL information from paypal info, e-mail, telephone numbers etc, simply put every bit of information you give prior to buying ISK WILL be given to a third party. You have two options when buying ISK, do it illegally just to get cheap ISK:RL $$$ and risk getting it reversed (in other words wasting your own money) or legally where the price is slightly higher that ISK farmer sites, GTC / Plex will be used to help CCP too and other players (ISK vs Game Time) But this is all irrevant as long as theres a demand for ISK, so I say move lvl 4s to lowsec revamp mining and change local in 0.0 make it like WHs, this will in effect reduce macros -- Emo TraderJohn's Number 1 Fan!!

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