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Mesuinu Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:14:00 - [1] *Disclaimer: I don't pretend to think that this is a new idea or that it hasn't even been discussed on OOPE before, I just don't remember seeing it or reading about it online.* The search for aliens is pointless... ...because in the 5,000-10,000 years it would take an average species capable of human levels of intelligence to go from hitting each other with sticks to discovering the rules of the universe that we haven't actually discovered yet but are probably less than a millennia from doing so, as well as figuring out how to benefit from them (pause for breath)... ...that species would 'evolve'/'artificially manipulate' themselves into becoming non-corporeal entities. There are no physical aliens capable of radio contact, because in the blink of an eye (in galactic time) it took them to evolve, they got to the inevitable end point of shedding their mortal coils. Waddaya reckon'? - Mes ---
Mesuinu Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:21:00 - [2] PS. If this theory has a name, or there's any books about it, fiction or non-fiction, I'd love to know. - Mes ---
dr doooo	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:22:00 - [3] I reckon that view is just a mirror of the current earth zeitgeist when considering aliens. Who knows what they may be like? Also, - THIS
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:25:00 - [4] Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 16/06/2010 22:28:37 I reckon our galaxy is filled with life (Greenbank Equasion), and that at some point we will discover them on our own, with technology we develop. For the time being you can read up on the Kardashev Scale, a scale with which the technological advancement of a civilization could be categorized, if such a civilisation has had a similar development than mankind. With this scale, we'd currently be at a level of 0.7. Apply \| Sigs
XenosisReaper Rising Ashes Inc.	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:33:00 - [5] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 16/06/2010 22:28:37 I reckon our galaxy is filled with life (Greenbank Equasion), and that at some point we will discover them on our own, with technology we develop. For the time being you can read up on the Kardashev Scale, a scale with which the technological advancement of a civilization could be categorized, if such a civilisation has had a similar development than mankind. With this scale, we'd currently be at a level of 0.7. N = R* x fp x ne x fe x fi x fc x L Originally by: XenosisReaper /me feels left out because he was ignored by the devtrain Originally by: CCP Shadow You are hereby "un-ignored". The name XenosisReaper will live on forever
Vogue Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:36:00 - [6] For future human development I wonder (I am no scientist, my maths is average) if there is a limit to what mankind can understand with its perception of linear time and 3d space. Is there a danger than future AI quantum computers can acheive a better perception of the universe\multiverses that no human can acheive and pose an obsolescence problem for mankind. .................................................. Cylon cultural victor!
dr doooo	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 16/06/2010 22:28:37 I reckon our galaxy is filled with life (Greenbank Equasion), and that at some point we will discover them on our own, with technology we develop. For the time being you can read up on the Kardashev Scale, a scale with which the technological advancement of a civilization could be categorized, if such a civilisation has had a similar development than mankind. With this scale, we'd currently be at a level of 0.7. But both of those are just a few smart scientists best guesses. The only thing that they really inform us about is the perception of a few humans at a particular time, place and stage of development, on earth.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.06.16 22:42:00 - [8] Originally by: dr doooo Originally by: Dan O'Connor Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 16/06/2010 22:28:37 I reckon our galaxy is filled with life (Greenbank Equasion), and that at some point we will discover them on our own, with technology we develop. For the time being you can read up on the Kardashev Scale, a scale with which the technological advancement of a civilization could be categorized, if such a civilisation has had a similar development than mankind. With this scale, we'd currently be at a level of 0.7. But both of those are just a few smart scientists best guesses. The only thing that they really inform us about is the perception of a few humans at a particular time, place and stage of development, on earth. Yes, but I find these views very interesting nevertheless. Apply \| Sigs
dr doooo	Posted - 2010.06.16 23:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Vogue For future human development I wonder (I am no scientist, my maths is average) if there is a limit to what mankind can understand with its perception of linear time and 3d space. Is there a danger than future AI quantum computers can acheive a better perception of the universe\multiverses that no human can acheive and pose an obsolescence problem for mankind. Was it the uk northern 'rock star' scientist (I can't remember his name) who first popularised this? but there seems to be a lot of scientists popping up on the media recently talking about silicon based life being a possible evolutionary future. I'm no scientist either, but none of them seem to be explaining how this 'life form' makes the jump from self replicating 'machine' to 'living'. In this scenario mankind would never be obsolete, because the machines would need us in order to have a reason to exist.
Mesuinu Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.16 23:12:00 - [10] Awesome, awesome, awesome! Great links and comments guys, particularly like the video of Neil degrasse Tyson. Originally by: Vogue For future human development I wonder (I am no scientist, my maths is average) if there is a limit to what mankind can understand with its perception of linear time and 3d space. Is there a danger than future AI quantum computers can acheive a better perception of the universe\multiverses that no human can acheive and pose an obsolescence problem for mankind. I reckon either a) genetic engineering, or b) a quantum co-processor for the brain, probably made by nvidia, would solve this issue, at least until we become omnipresent, ethereal, non-corporeal beings. - Mes ---

dr doooo	Posted - 2010.06.16 23:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: dr doooo Originally by: Dan O'Connor Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 16/06/2010 22:28:37 I reckon our galaxy is filled with life (Greenbank Equasion), and that at some point we will discover them on our own, with technology we develop. For the time being you can read up on the Kardashev Scale, a scale with which the technological advancement of a civilization could be categorized, if such a civilisation has had a similar development than mankind. With this scale, we'd currently be at a level of 0.7. But both of those are just a few smart scientists best guesses. The only thing that they really inform us about is the perception of a few humans at a particular time, place and stage of development, on earth. Yes, but I find these views very interesting nevertheless. Oh yea - absolutely.
ChaeDoc II Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.16 23:42:00 - [12] Originally by: Mesuinu *Disclaimer: I don't pretend to think that this is a new idea or that it hasn't even been discussed on OOPE before, I just don't remember seeing it or reading about it online.* The search for aliens is pointless... ...because in the 5,000-10,000 years it would take an average species capable of human levels of intelligence to go from hitting each other with sticks to discovering the rules of the universe that we haven't actually discovered yet but are probably less than a millennia from doing so, as well as figuring out how to benefit from them (pause for breath)... ...that species would 'evolve'/'artificially manipulate' themselves into becoming non-corporeal entities. There are no physical aliens capable of radio contact, because in the blink of an eye (in galactic time) it took them to evolve, they got to the inevitable end point of shedding their mortal coils. Waddaya reckon'? - Mes I reckon you're forgetting one thing. We're here. If we're here then why is it so unlikely that they're there? Parhaps there are such life forms that have evolved from their physical form like Daniel Jackson did a few dozen times but surely we're not the last ones in the universe to do so?
Zeredek Gallente Vanguard Venture	Posted - 2010.06.16 23:52:00 - [13] I hear halo kills these and doesnt afraid of anything, c/d? Originally by: CCP Soundwave Shady deals? IN MY EVE ONLINE? I don't believe it.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.06.17 01:31:00 - [14] No, it's because all aliens are trapped in Holodeck/EVEpod versions of MMOs, or basically a self-imposed Matrix, with no desire to contact anybody. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.06.17 01:46:00 - [15] Originally by: dr doooo But both of those are just a few smart scientists best guesses. The only thing that they really inform us about is the perception of a few humans at a particular time, place and stage of development, on earth. And pretty much every other theory involving Aliens is the same thing, presented with varying levels of intelligence. Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Florio Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.06.17 01:56:00 - [16] I think the theory is not so much about evolving into non-corporeal entities, but more about a species dying out completely? The time span over which a species evolves into intelligent life and survives whilst intelligent is minute relative to the universe's timespan. Therefore whilst the chance of there being many intelligent lifeforms is signficant, the ages those lifeforms exist in are likely to be split apart by unimaginable stretches of time.
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.06.17 02:07:00 - [17] this all assumes that other renditions of life even exist in the same manner we do it's nigh on impossible to truly imagine, but what if we are the only version that experiences reality the way we experience reality. we are the only ones that experience time the way we do (or the only ones that experience it incrementally no matter the direction) if we are the only ones that acknowledge an existence of a visual &/or audio spectrum if we are the only ones that aren't able to acknowledge an infinity of other senses and physical realities that the universe consists of perhaps it's not that we are alone in the universe perhaps the universe is SO diverse, so impossibly beyond our imaginations that we just might not be able to comprehend what it is we are looking for food for thought -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.
Intense Thinker Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.17 08:35:00 - [18] That was awesome (Yes, I'm a little blitzed) Originally by: a51 duke1406 The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
Battal Gazi Caldari Bregan Dearthe AAA Citizens	Posted - 2010.06.17 11:35:00 - [19] ever heard of a guy called fermi ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox -- "Hizli Koşan Atın Boku Seyrek Dnşer" --
Vogue Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.17 12:15:00 - [20] What happens to any species, human or others in the universe, when they reach a zenith of development. Where their environment no longer tests and tasks with stress. At this entropic point does decadence ensue? Or do they take on a role of dealing.. manipulating other lesser species for their own wants. Humans are in awe of the notion of super powerful aliens. And maybe uber powerful aliens actually are in envy of humans in one respect - They are still driven to go beyond what they currently are. The wild fire of evolution through conflict, co-operation with pained experience. I thought this as i have started reading Stephen Baxter's Origin. .................................................. Cylon cultural victor!

Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.06.17 12:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Battal Gazi ever heard of a guy called fermi ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox Could be fake... but what if this was real? (Just assume for a moment - regardless of your views on the subject) Apply \| Sigs
So Sensational GREY COUNCIL Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.06.17 12:43:00 - [22] AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION, AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION. AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION, AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION. AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION. AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION, AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION. AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION, AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION AMATEURISH SPECULATION. p.s. I don't really want to turn into a cloud of energy, it doesn't seem fun.
Torque Daisy Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.06.17 13:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Vogue What happens to any species, human or others in the universe, when they reach a zenith of development. Where their environment no longer tests and tasks with stress. At this entropic point does decadence ensue? Or do they take on a role of dealing.. manipulating other lesser species for their own wants. Humans are in awe of the notion of super powerful aliens. And maybe uber powerful aliens actually are in envy of humans in one respect - They are still driven to go beyond what they currently are. The wild fire of evolution through conflict, co-operation with pained experience. I thought this as i have started reading Stephen Baxter's Origin. sounds exactly like the Q outta startrek
stoicfaux	Posted - 2010.06.17 14:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Mesuinu The search for aliens is pointless... ...discovering the rules of the universe that we haven't actually discovered yet but are probably less than a millennia from doing so ...that species would 'evolve'/'artificially manipulate' themselves into becoming non-corporeal entities. You're basing your argument on: a) the undiscovered rules of the universe and b) that a species can become non-corporeal entities. Did someone hand you a list of the undiscovered rules of the universe and did that list state that becoming a non-corporeal entity is possible within the rules of universe? ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
Vogue Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.17 14:20:00 - [25] Edited by: Vogue on 17/06/2010 14:20:54 ^^^ very true. When thinking of aliens most people get caught by popular sci fiction that mostly is typical story telling - the humans are the good guys and beat aliens which are not really aliens but an evil version of humans. Such stories are easy self vilification and don't really try to fathom what aliens could really be like. The best Scifi in books is far more bold and adventurous than what is put on TV and cinema. .................................................. Cylon cultural victor!
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.17 14:53:00 - [26] Originally by: So Sensational p.s. I don't really want to turn into a cloud of energy, it doesn't seem fun. never know til ya tried I thought all alien species went extinct from playing computer games all day anyways - Malyutka (The Virus) -
ChaeDoc II Gallente Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.06.17 15:06:00 - [27] Edited by: ChaeDoc II on 17/06/2010 15:09:27 Originally by: stoicfaux Originally by: Mesuinu The search for aliens is pointless... ...discovering the rules of the universe that we haven't actually discovered yet but are probably less than a millennia from doing so ...that species would 'evolve'/'artificially manipulate' themselves into becoming non-corporeal entities. You're basing your argument on: a) the undiscovered rules of the universe and b) that a species can become non-corporeal entities. Did someone hand you a list of the undiscovered rules of the universe and did that list state that becoming a non-corporeal entity is possible within the rules of universe? There's more evidence to suggest that becoming non-corporeal is possible than there is against it. But you're right, we don't know but if we don't know something is impossible then by definition, from the perspective of the observer, it must be possible. edit: less linebreaks between text and bbcode plz. kthxbai.
Smooth Shoperator	Posted - 2010.06.17 20:02:00 - [28] Obviously if aliens existed, It would be mentioned in the Bible. It'd have been pretty significant.
Mesuinu Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.17 23:00:00 - [29] Edited by: Mesuinu on 17/06/2010 23:01:04 Originally by: stoicfaux You're basing your argument on: a) the undiscovered rules of the universe and b) that a species can become non-corporeal entities. Did someone hand you a list of the undiscovered rules of the universe and did that list state that becoming a non-corporeal entity is possible within the rules of universe? You're certainly absolutely right and no they did not But you stand there and tell me that you don't believe there's a hell of a lot more to what's going on all around us and in the Universe than we know now, will know in 100 years and perhaps even 1000 years. All I mean is that whatever we end up as, if we get that far, we will be unrecognisable, probably even invisible, to a modern day man/woman. Regarding my OP, I've been thinking about this and I think an analogy is like watching the night sky for shooting stars. Imagine that every time you see a shooting star, the streak is a species going from (the equivalent of) neanderthal to the pinnacle of human evolution. A shooting star lasts what, half a second? Then you wait for the next one; maybe 20 seconds, maybe 5 minutes, maybe half an hour, but you almost never see two shooting stars at the same time. That is why I think the search for life is pointless. - Mes ---
Dian'h Might Minmatar Cash and Cargo Liberators Incorporated	Posted - 2010.06.18 03:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Smooth Shoperator Obviously if aliens existed, It would be mentioned in the Bible. It'd have been pretty significant. Obviously you've never read the space trilogy by C.S. Lewis. - - - Dian'h Might - C&Ps resident "internet kleptomaniac"



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