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onyu
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:45:00 -
[1]
I've trained a bunch of alts on PI, cause I like it, reminds me of the X series of games. The EVE equivalent of a toy train to set up and watch it go. In spite of bugs and polish issues discussed in the forums, you can see they worked hard at making it cool, all the feedback you get about your product routing by simply mousing over your pins is top notch.
So, I got adv. planetology IV on one toon and adv. planetology III on another. Further toons have various lower levels of regular Planetology.
From what I can see, up to level III, adv. Planetology improves your readings, so that placing an extractor in the center of a hotspot gives better extraction than adv. Planetology II or I.
However, my toon with adv. Planetology IV has consistently worse extraction results in the center of the hotspots it finds.
I got alerted to this because I was using the same group of planets with different toons, otherwise I would have never stumbled over it.
Unless this is a bug dependent on specific planet(s), It should be easy to reproduce for CCP or anyone with multiple PI toons
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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
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Posted - 2010.06.21 13:54:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: onyu
I got alerted to this because I was using the same group of planets with different toons, otherwise I would have never stumbled over it.
Did you check on the exact SAME planets on the SAME spot? Different planets have different output! Regardless if they are in the same type.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.06.21 14:59:00 -
[3]
A corpmate with Adv. Planetology 2 got a 10% increase by moving his extractor based on a screenshot I did with Adv. Planetology 4, and he still wasn't very close (he hit the edge of the hotspot). Overall extraction improved 20% when he trained Adv. Planetology 4 and moved his extractors.
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onyu
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Posted - 2010.06.21 15:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Lutz Major
Originally by: onyu
I got alerted to this because I was using the same group of planets with different toons, otherwise I would have never stumbled over it.
Did you check on the exact SAME planets on the SAME spot? Different planets have different output! Regardless if they are in the same type.
yes, the exact same planets, same resource. I use the same 4 planets in the same system for convenience, since I'm not much for jumping haulers all over the place.
I look at my alts' installations, which makes it easy to duplicate good locations on toons that are low on planetology skill.
I have not tested, adv. planetology IV against any other level of planetology than adv. planetology III. I don't doubt its better than most lower levels of skill. but against adv. planetology III, it just can't compete for output.
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Nuadi
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Posted - 2010.06.21 15:40:00 -
[5]
Are you colonizing planets/sites using the same order of characters?
You may get 100% extraction for the first character, and then 98% extraction on the second due to extractors already being in place from the first. The next characters suffers more, and so on.
Have the extraction levels gone down for your character with the highest extraction rate?
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onyu
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Posted - 2010.06.21 15:43:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
A corpmate with Adv. Planetology 2 got a 10% increase by moving his extractor based on a screenshot I did with Adv. Planetology 4, and he still wasn't very close (he hit the edge of the hotspot). Overall extraction improved 20% when he trained Adv. Planetology 4 and moved his extractors.
Try comparing adv. planetology 4 against adv. planetology III and you might get a surprise.
to give a good spot to a corpmate with lower skill than you have, its nice to use a basic command center and simply place an extractor in the center of the hotspot. then all he has to do is scan for the same resource, locate your exctractor or cc, and he's got it exactly.
If he finds your cc and clicks on it, it'll show him your entire installation, hence also the extractor you used to mark the spot.
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onyu
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Posted - 2010.06.21 16:02:00 -
[7]
Also, I'm aware of the technique of using loads of extractors to slowly build into the best area of a hot spot, which is often not the center of the shown hot spot.
beyond CCP's description of the planetology skill giving you more color gradients, higher levels of planetology skill will also show up completely new hot spots that are nowhere near previously visible ones. So there's more to it than just a better focusing-in/shifting of known hot spots.
I will know more when I got adv planetology to V, but for now, dropping an extractor in the middle of the best AP III hotspot gives me more output than dropping it in the best hot spot shown by AP IV on the same planet.
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2010.06.21 17:01:00 -
[8]
Originally by: onyu
I got alerted to this because I was using the same group of planets with different toons, otherwise I would have never stumbled over it.
And I'm gonna guess you put down as many as you could in the area too.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
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van Ice
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Posted - 2010.06.21 17:16:00 -
[9]
I've found that no toon seems to have "perfect" scanning.
Observations:
1. 3 different toons, 3 different locations (all relatively close") for a hotspot.
2. Same toon, hotspot is always in the same location. This implies that there is a hidden "error" value stored for each toon, possibly per planet, possibly globally. As in, always offset by +X,-Y, and maybe -Z.
3. Using the "place extractors and test" methods, no toon (even with Adv Plan III)
seems a perfect view of the hotspot.
4. Training up to V/V on Planetology/Adv Planetology isn't gonna happen. So, living with error is state of the universe.
Having recently (this weekend) mucked around with the place extractors to find hotspots brute force method, I've increased raw production from 10-30 percent, depending on how bad my first placements were. We won't talk about the isk burnt....
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Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
Kiroshi Group
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Posted - 2010.06.21 20:11:00 -
[10]
It might be a waste of $$ initially, but I just have adv planetology 1 and put up a honeycomb of extractors all over the hotspot. Set them all for a 5 hr pull and click on each one to see what they're pulling. Delete the lowest/cycle and put it up next to one of the higher yield ones. I usually only end up deleting 2-4 of them around the edge to find the honeycomb shape blanketing the hotspot. I'd rather have to rebuild 2-4 of them initially than spend days training.
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Seminole Sun
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Posted - 2010.06.21 20:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cory Sopapilla
It might be a waste of $$ initially, but I just have adv planetology 1 and put up a honeycomb of extractors all over the hotspot. Set them all for a 5 hr pull and click on each one to see what they're pulling. Delete the lowest/cycle and put it up next to one of the higher yield ones. I usually only end up deleting 2-4 of them around the edge to find the honeycomb shape blanketing the hotspot. I'd rather have to rebuild 2-4 of them initially than spend days training.
The Big payoff for advanced planetology is the "secret" hot spots you start to see that you would otherwise never have known about. These are often (though not always) better than anything else on the planet.
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onyu
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Posted - 2010.06.22 02:35:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Adunh Slavy
Originally by: onyu
I got alerted to this because I was using the same group of planets with different toons, otherwise I would have never stumbled over it.
And I'm gonna guess you put down as many as you could in the area too.
Yes, you are correct. But let me clarify the situation that got me wondering:
With newly trained AP4 I was showing a sideways shift for the old AP3 hotspot, where the new shifted hot spot had worse results, in spite of no structures yet. Basically, the AP3 hot spot with a bunch of extractors had still better extraction than the new AP4 one with no pre-existing extractors.
To test, I wasted a few basic command centers just to do a 'clean' test on a planet where the hot spots I used happened to have no extractors from anyone yet, with the same result: my AP3 hot spots put out higher values than my AP4 hot spots.
So I made this post
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xaja
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Posted - 2010.06.22 02:42:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Seminole Sun
Originally by: Cory Sopapilla
It might be a waste of $$ initially, but I just have adv planetology 1 and put up a honeycomb of extractors all over the hotspot. Set them all for a 5 hr pull and click on each one to see what they're pulling. Delete the lowest/cycle and put it up next to one of the higher yield ones. I usually only end up deleting 2-4 of them around the edge to find the honeycomb shape blanketing the hotspot. I'd rather have to rebuild 2-4 of them initially than spend days training.
The Big payoff for advanced planetology is the "secret" hot spots you start to see that you would otherwise never have known about. These are often (though not always) better than anything else on the planet.
Yes, the secret hotspots are definitely worth training up AP... even then, going by what Van Ice said about random error generation in the forumula, even at AP5, you'll probably still have to use the wasteful-extractor-exploration.
Kinda like mining companies. They will sometimes perforate a square kilometer with drill holes to take samples from the depth, before they build a main shaft to start mining. That's costly too.
Still, I think there should be a clear improvement for the ~4 days of training from AP3 to AP4, and nothing like "oh ****, I have to get another toon to AP3 now, cause I can't un-train AP4, and it'll be 2 weeks before I get to AP5
...
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