| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Aegis Stormborn
   |
Posted - 2010.06.22 04:46:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Aegis Stormborn on 22/06/2010 04:50:07
I propose an automatic scanning feature on the directional scanner. Check an 'autoscan' box, click scan and it will refresh the scanner every 1.2 seconds, or whatever the cool down timer is now. It could also have a longer cool down (say 2 seconds instead of 1.2) on autoscan to handicap it a bit. Also a max autoscan time could be attached to it of 1-5 minutes to avoid abuse.
Anything would be a big improvement over repetitiously clicking scan while trying not to do it so fast that the horrid 'scanner is recalibrating' message comes up in the middle of my screen (and stays there for 3 scan cycles).
Also, this could be a very valuable tool if we can ever get local nerfed  (PLEASE!!!)
|
Aegis Stormborn
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 04:47:00 -
[2]
Supporting my own super awesome idea.
|
Bergvik
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 06:28:00 -
[3]
This is a terrible idea that probably only will be supported by carebears.
|
Miyamoto Isoruku
Caldari
Original Sin.
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 07:49:00 -
[4]
God no. This would only help macroers.
|
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
GK inc.
Panda Team
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 08:32:00 -
[5]
Leave it to the biggest carebears to propose something like this 
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 15:13:00 -
[6]
Because macro'ers would really benefit from not having to smash a button every 2 seconds, since it would be impossible to add that to a macro (that is sarcasm).
Still would probably kill the server, everyone having it on auto refresh, dir scan needs complete overhaul combined with removal of local.
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 17:39:00 -
[7]
CCP has specifically stated that this won't happen.
|
Batolemaeus
Vauryndar Dalharil
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 20:09:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CCP has specifically stated that this won't happen.
And I will specifically state that something will have to happen to the scanner.
Maybe CCP should finally iterate on some of their designs..
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 20:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CCP has specifically stated that this won't happen.
And I will specifically state that something will have to happen to the scanner.
Maybe CCP should finally iterate on some of their designs..
Completely agree. CCP stated that this won't happen to the current scanner. So the current scanner needs to be changed.
And local needs to be changed to delayed.
...
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.06.22 22:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CCP has specifically stated that this won't happen.
And I will specifically state that something will have to happen to the scanner.
Maybe CCP should finally iterate on some of their designs..
Completely agree. CCP stated that this won't happen to the current scanner. So the current scanner needs to be changed.
And local needs to be changed to delayed.
It's not about the current scanner. It's about doing distance checks between you and every object in the solar system, every time you re-scan. It apparently causes significant lag, and I don't see any good way of eliminating that problem. Hence, won't happen. Sucks to be you.
|
|
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2010.06.24 18:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Razin on 24/06/2010 18:52:44
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Razin
Completely agree. CCP stated that this won't happen to the current scanner. So the current scanner needs to be changed.
And local needs to be changed to delayed.
It's not about the current scanner. It's about doing distance checks between you and every object in the solar system, every time you re-scan. It apparently causes significant lag, and I don't see any good way of eliminating that problem. Hence, won't happen. Sucks to be you.
Firstly, the client has little problem updating several parameters for hundreds of objects (that are firing at each other) in real time. Granted, the current state of performance is considerably worse than what we know the game to be capable of (I've seen lagless fights with hundreds in local and mostly on grid).
Secondly, to reduce server strain the auto scanner only has to look for a subset of objects within the star system: say, piloted ships, or anything with a warp drive that is player controlled. There's simply no need for it to look at anything else.
CCP devs rejected simple automation of the current directional scanner while talking of the need for some replacement mechanic for a delayed local.
Please come up with a new reason to diss these ideas, your current one doesn't work.
...
|
Howen
|
Posted - 2010.06.24 19:13:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Howen on 24/06/2010 19:14:30
Edited by: Howen on 24/06/2010 19:12:55
Good_idea_would_be_to_change_this_outdated_system_to_smth
new.Propose_to_make_it_as_a_radar_system.
Of_course_improved.
P.S.
Dash_broken
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.06.24 21:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Razin
Firstly, the client has little problem updating several parameters for hundreds of objects (that are firing at each other) in real time. Granted, the current state of performance is considerably worse than what we know the game to be capable of (I've seen lagless fights with hundreds in local and mostly on grid).
Secondly, to reduce server strain the auto scanner only has to look for a subset of objects within the star system: say, piloted ships, or anything with a warp drive that is player controlled. There's simply no need for it to look at anything else.
CCP devs rejected simple automation of the current directional scanner while talking of the need for some replacement mechanic for a delayed local.
Please come up with a new reason to diss these ideas, your current one doesn't work.
CCP said it won't happen. What more rationale do I need?
|
King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
|
Posted - 2010.06.25 00:21:00 -
[14]
The scanner needs an overhaul along with local chat. But I don't support your idea. Given the way the d-scanner currently works, it would kill the server. |
Exlegion
Salva Veritate
|
Posted - 2010.06.25 01:11:00 -
[15]
The scanner needs a change as in its current form it is heavily biased toward the predator style of play. I will offer my support, not necessarily limited to the OP's idea, but for a change overall. The current scanner needs a serious rethink.
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2010.06.28 03:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CCP said it won't happen. What more rationale do I need?
CCP said this about the current implementation of d-scanner. The point here is to ask CCP to look into doing something about this neglected game feature. CCP will then decide how to go about automating it and what changes need to be made.
...
|
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
|
Posted - 2010.06.28 09:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CCP said it won't happen. What more rationale do I need?
CCP said this about the current implementation of d-scanner. The point here is to ask CCP to look into doing something about this neglected game feature. CCP will then decide how to go about automating it and what changes need to be made.
There is no need to automate it. At all. You have no chance if you're making an argument derived from a false premise.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2010.06.29 04:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
CCP said it won't happen. What more rationale do I need?
CCP said this about the current implementation of d-scanner. The point here is to ask CCP to look into doing something about this neglected game feature. CCP will then decide how to go about automating it and what changes need to be made.
There is no need to automate it. At all. You have no chance if you're making an argument derived from a false premise.
D-scanner needs to be made into a tool that can replace instant local. Automation is one of the requirements. It is aimed at leveling the playing field with the inevitable macro users.
...
|
SoulTrader LT
|
Posted - 2010.06.29 07:09:00 -
[19]
Not that i have any opinion about this matter.. but here's for a thought: thousands and thousands of years of technology development and it gone backwards :D at present on earth we have scanners (radars,sonars and stuff) that do not need to be pressed every time you want to scan :)
However i think, that there's a judge pile of other more important things for CCP to look into. I don't have any problems using scanner atm.
|
Mr SmartGuy
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 05:03:00 -
[20]
Every time you click "scan" the client sends a request to the server. The server have to process the request by finding all objects that are in your scan range and send the list to your client. Your client then have to process the raw message it got from TQ and apply a filter so that only the items that are in your overview (if the "Apply overview settings" box is checked) would be shown in the scan results. Additionally, objects must be filtered by angle of your directional scanner.
Or even worse, the server itself filters your scan results (it would be an odd programing decision, but who knows).
So, basically, you are suggesting that there should be a built in option that sends dozens of mostly useless requests per minute just because you want to feel safer.
There should be more options that are solving the lag problem, not making it worse. Not supported. |
|
|
Rahnim
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 05:27:00 -
[21]
How about being able to add it as a shortcut, where instead of clicking with the mouse, we could click our keyboard? (like ctrl + something)
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 13:48:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mr SmartGuy
Every time you click "scan" the client sends a request to the server. The server have to process the request by finding all objects that are in your scan range and send the list to your client. Your client then have to process the raw message it got from TQ and apply a filter so that only the items that are in your overview (if the "Apply overview settings" box is checked) would be shown in the scan results. Additionally, objects must be filtered by angle of your directional scanner.
Or even worse, the server itself filters your scan results (it would be an odd programing decision, but who knows).
So, basically, you are suggesting that there should be a built in option that sends dozens of mostly useless requests per minute just because you want to feel safer.
There should be more options that are solving the lag problem, not making it worse. Not supported.
Straw-man much?
...
|
Mr SmartGuy
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 14:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Razin
Straw-man much?
No. Just a programmer... Man, I need a vacation. |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 17:04:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Razin
Straw-man much?
It's not a straw-man if he's actually explaining what it is you're asking for.
|
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 18:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Razin
Straw-man much?
It's not a straw-man if he's actually explaining what it is you're asking for.
What I'm asking for and what Mr SmartGuy is trying to explain are two different things, as can be gleaned from my posts in this thread. Hope this isn't too challenging.
...
|
Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 20:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Exlegion
The scanner needs a change as in its current form it is heavily biased toward the predator style of play.
Are you seriously that stupid? 
The current form of the d-scanner is not balanced in any way towards a predatory style of play. Your d-scanner is probably one of the best tools to keep you from being royally screwed whenever you're in a hostile situation (hint: that means its defensive too! omg!)
Quote:
CCP Mindstar > Sorry - I've completely messed all that up. lets try again
|
Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 21:03:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Lykouleon
Originally by: Exlegion
The scanner needs a change as in its current form it is heavily biased toward the predator style of play.
Are you seriously that stupid?
I'm beginning to think you are.
Quote:
The current form of the d-scanner is not balanced in any way towards a predatory style of play. Your d-scanner is probably one of the best tools to keep you from being royally screwed whenever you're in a hostile situation (hint: that means its defensive too! omg!)
Are you aware that a pilot in space can be combat-probed in six seconds or less? And that unless you are spamming the scan button at least that much (read: every 6 seconds) you won't see them coming? Please explain how a potential target having to smash a button every 6 seconds reasonable while a predator not only can use combat probes, but can also use the D-scanner to avoid having to keep combat probes out too long for detection.
So then I ask you, are you seriously that stupid?
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 22:06:00 -
[28]
6 seconds or less? As far as I'm aware the best time one can achieve on the scan time is 5 seconds. Except to get it to that point they have to do a couple of other scans first, move the probes around etc. It takes longer then 6 seconds to scan something down. If you are that scared of probers just dock up when you see unfamiliar faces in local. Or make sure you pay attn to the D-scanner. I've never been jumped unawares when using it. Further, supposing I have been jumped unaware it would be because I didn't notice something already available to me (either a new guy in local or a ship on the scan list) I don't see how this proposal would improve upon that in anyway.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 22:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Razin
What I'm asking for and what Mr SmartGuy is trying to explain are two different things, as can be gleaned from my posts in this thread. Hope this isn't too challenging.
Right. He's explaining what would happen if CCP did it, you're describing a fantasy world where computers don't need to do calculations in order to give you data.
Originally by: Jin Nib
6 seconds or less? As far as I'm aware the best time one can achieve on the scan time is 5 seconds. Except to get it to that point they have to do a couple of other scans first, move the probes around etc. It takes longer then 6 seconds to scan something down. If you are that scared of probers just dock up when you see unfamiliar faces in local. Or make sure you pay attn to the D-scanner. I've never been jumped unawares when using it. Further, supposing I have been jumped unaware it would be because I didn't notice something already available to me (either a new guy in local or a ship on the scan list) I don't see how this proposal would improve upon that in anyway.
Directional scanner, not scan probes.
|
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 05:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Directional scanner, not scan probes.
I was replying to Exlegion.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
|
|
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 07:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Directional scanner, not scan probes.
I was replying to Exlegion.
Whoops. 
|
Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 12:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Jin Nib
6 seconds or less? As far as I'm aware the best time one can achieve on the scan time is 5 seconds.
Last time I checked 5 seconds is less than 6, hence my statement 6 seconds or less.
Quote:
Except to get it to that point they have to do a couple of other scans first, move the probes around etc.
No, you don't. You could just use your directional scanner to "probe" down your target, pinpointing it down exclusively with the D-scanner and with as good an accuracy as 1 AU. All you really need the probes is for your warpable. That's it. Bring your probes out, get a hit. 6 seconds. That's it.
Quote:
It takes longer then 6 seconds to scan something down.
It takes longer to scan someone down. I'm not arguing this as you are correct. What I am arguing is that it only takes 6 seconds or less for actual probes to be out and about. That isn't enough time for someone spending 30 minutes to an hour in a mission to notice them or even realize they're being probed down.
Quote:
If you are that scared of probers just dock up when you see unfamiliar faces in local.
Quote:
Or make sure you pay attn to the D-scanner.
I don't think you understand when I say the D-scanner is more likely not to pick up probes. So how exactly does the D-scanner save you when there is only a window of about 6 seconds to see the probes for as long as someone is out doing their mission? Spamming the button every 6 seconds is not an acceptable counter.
Quote:
I've never been jumped unawares when using it. Further, supposing I have been jumped unaware it would be because I didn't notice something already available to me (either a new guy in local or a ship on the scan list) I don't see how this proposal would improve upon that in anyway.
Docking your mission ship every time a neutral or red appears in local is not a reasonable request and I think you know this, especially in systems with good agents. If I had to stop missioning every time this happened I'd make more mining in high sec than missioning in low sec space.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 13:57:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Razin
What I'm asking for and what Mr SmartGuy is trying to explain are two different things, as can be gleaned from my posts in this thread. Hope this isn't too challenging.
Right. He's explaining what would happen if CCP did it, you're describing a fantasy world where computers don't need to do calculations in order to give you data.
I guess it was a bit too challenging.
I ain't feeding this troll no more.
...
|
BjornarGoesToSpace
Local-Spike
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 16:17:00 -
[34]
Make my game easier? Hell no.
|
Lykouleon
Trust Doesn't Rust
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 20:46:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Exlegion
Quote:
The current form of the d-scanner is not balanced in any way towards a predatory style of play. Your d-scanner is probably one of the best tools to keep you from being royally screwed whenever you're in a hostile situation (hint: that means its defensive too! omg!)
Are you aware that a pilot in space can be combat-probed in six seconds or less? And that unless you are spamming the scan button at least that much (read: every 6 seconds) you won't see them coming? Please explain how a potential target having to smash a button every 6 seconds reasonable while a predator not only can use combat probes, but can also use the D-scanner to avoid having to keep combat probes out too long for detection.
1) add combat probes to overview
2) hit d-scan, watch for PROBES
3) If you're not a complete moron, you'll already be aligned out...if not, you're an ****** and deserve to get scanned down 
You, sir, recieve todays "I'm-An-******-At-0.0-Living" award. I hope you feel like you've achieved something.
(PS: You've confirmed that, yes, you are that stupid)
Quote:
CCP Mindstar > Sorry - I've completely messed all that up. lets try again
|
Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 21:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lykouleon
You really have no idea what the difference between probing and scanning is :\.
This is a waste of time.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 23:34:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Exlegion
Even assuming your 6 sec window, how would the OP help you at all? You'd still have to be looking at the scan list every 6 seconds, you just wouldn't have to push a button. In other words pressing the button when you want to see or looking at the window makes no difference, either way you get the same result. It just so happens that scanning manually saves a hell of a lot of server/client load.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 23:45:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Exlegion on 02/07/2010 23:46:18
Originally by: Jin Nib
Even assuming your 6 sec window, how would the OP help you at all? You'd still have to be looking at the scan list every 6 seconds, you just wouldn't have to push a button. In other words pressing the button when you want to see or looking at the window makes no difference, either way you get the same result. It just so happens that scanning manually saves a hell of a lot of server/client load.
Jin Nib,
You're right. This change wouldn't exactly help that much other than shaving off a fraction of a second every process. But that's why I said:
Originally by: Exlegion
The scanner needs a change as in its current form it is heavily biased toward the predator style of play. I will offer my support, not necessarily limited to the OP's idea, but for a change overall. The current scanner needs a serious rethink.
Here.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
GK inc.
|
Posted - 2010.07.03 00:39:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Grarr Dexx on 03/07/2010 00:43:57
Quote:
Last time I checked 5 seconds is less than 6, hence my statement 6 seconds or less.
Statement? Why don't you go out there and do it yourself.
Quote:
No, you don't. You could just use your directional scanner to "probe" down your target, pinpointing it down exclusively with the D-scanner and with as good an accuracy as 1 AU. All you really need the probes is for your warpable. That's it. Bring your probes out, get a hit. 6 seconds. That's it.
Take it from an experienced combat prober, any probes even with max skills will remain in visibility for AT LEAST ten seconds while you're probing down your target. Stay on your toes, stay aligned out, and refresh the scanner constantly while you're being preyed upon.
Quote:
It takes longer to scan someone down. I'm not arguing this as you are correct. What I am arguing is that it only takes 6 seconds or less for actual probes to be out and about. That isn't enough time for someone spending 30 minutes to an hour in a mission to notice them or even realize they're being probed down.
And?
Quote:
I don't think you understand when I say the D-scanner is more likely not to pick up probes. So how exactly does the D-scanner save you when there is only a window of about 6 seconds to see the probes for as long as someone is out doing their mission? Spamming the button every 6 seconds is not an acceptable counter.
Do you need any more counters? Stay aligned, or STOP ****ING MAKING MONEY WHEN THERE'S A THREAT. Why are you making money? Isn't it to fight? Well, there's your ****ing opportunity to FIGHT.
Quote:
Docking your mission ship every time a neutral or red appears in local is not a reasonable request and I think you know this, especially in systems with good agents. If I had to stop missioning every time this happened I'd make more mining in high sec than missioning in low sec space.
Excuse me? You can dock your mission ship and bring something to make sure the neutral or red goes away. Nobody's forcing you to hide and cower. You want complete safety? Go play hello kitty online.
|
Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
|
Posted - 2010.07.03 01:06:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Statement? Why don't you go out there and do it yourself.
Thanks. Already have. All relevant skills at 5 (yes, including Astrometric Rangefinding) with Sisters equipment.
Quote:
Take it from an experienced combat prober, any probes even with max skills will remain in visibility for AT LEAST ten seconds while you're probing down your target. Stay on your toes, stay aligned out, and refresh the scanner constantly while you're being preyed upon.
I've had this discussion before. And won't waste my time with angry people like you. Suffice it to say I'm quite capable of staying aligned when my mission gets busted. It's still doesn't fix the profit ratio once my mission location is compromised and camped to hell. You seem like the person that wouldn't understand this anyway so I'll keep it at that.
Quote:
And?
As I said you won't see it. You're locked into your own tunnel-vision. The scanner is well and dandy. Happy? :).
Quote:
Do you need any more counters? Stay aligned, or STOP ****ING MAKING MONEY WHEN THERE'S A THREAT. Why are you making money? Isn't it to fight? Well, there's your ****ing opportunity to FIGHT.
How does staying aligned make missioning in low security space profitable? Does it protect my mission spot?
Quote:
Excuse me? You can dock your mission ship and bring something to make sure the neutral or red goes away. Nobody's forcing you to hide and cower. You want complete safety? Go play hello kitty online.
Profit. I don't expect you to understand this, but docking my profit-earning ship to do anything else (including PVP) runs my profit to the ground. Anyway, I won't be discussing this here anymore. It's a waste of time arguing with the elite "PVP is the only way!" crowd of Eve :). You all have yourselves a good night.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
|
|
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
GK inc.
|
Posted - 2010.07.03 01:49:00 -
[41]
You are actively being hunted by people and all you care about is profit ratio? I rest my case.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |