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CCP, do your game the greatest favor, rmove WTZ and dont let bookmarks

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1Ekrid1	Posted - 2010.06.25 18:43:00 - [91] Originally by: Isil Rahsen Originally by: 1Ekrid1 Concentrated Fail jesus christ , and I thought NightmareX was dumb. your valid and well reasoned counter argument is important to us. please dont hesitate to emorage and cause a fatal embolism in your brain. There's 1, repeat 1, frigate in the T1 lineup designed to be a suicide tackler. the rest are for COMBAT. so don't tell me to tackle when I'm in a combat T1 frig. OR tell CCP to fix their mess.
Kurt Thyboe	Posted - 2010.06.25 19:13:00 - [92] Originally by: 1Ekrid1 I cant get kills in highsec with warp to zero. Gameplay in highsec is stupid station hugging. The intent of the game was that the Eve U was a big wide place, but that you couldnt go anywhere unless you could warp to it. SOme geniuses came up with the idea of setting 10000000000000 bookmarks for every gate in the game so they could subvert this gameplay and warp to zero. some other geniuses found they could subvert the gameplay by dropping bookmarks mid-warp to get "safespots", and by dropping bookmarks after logoffski to get "safespots" outside of the solar systems usual paths. These effects were never intended. The game was never meant to be that. consider how much everything would be fixed if they had never allowed bookmarking in deep deadspace and WTZ bookmarking at all? They have instituted the inability to set up containers within a certain distance of gates, they have isntituted the inability to smartbomb within a certain distance to the stations. Why did they pander to the WTZ crowd who were abusing the bookmark function to avoid PVP? In doing this, here's what they cased; precedent which allows bookmarks to be set anywhere, which means 1000000's of deadspace bookmarks for players to 'safespot'. Lowered PVP capacity, as anyone with a brain can warp to a safe book, or logoffski. Pirates bypassing being open targets because everyone, under the original design intent of the game, would either be hovering around planets, stations, roids, or gates. that would make PVP much less boring and dull, and quicker. quicker PVP = more ship explode = more minerals used = more happy miners. So you see, miners in highsec would benefit just as much as pirates, whose prey would be limited to gate warping at 15km, and warping to stations and belts, and just as much as empire wardecs, just as much as anything. The station hugging games wouldnt exist, the instant warp>jump games wouldnt exist. PVP would be REALLY forced and not just who can PVP the most brainless or AFK person. Why did CCP, in all their wisdom, break their own game by offering WTZ when people were trying to subvert the original warp function, that would cause greater combat, and increase the actual FUN of the game, by setting WTZ bookmarks, instead of removing those bookmarks from everyone, disallowing midwarp bookmarks, and limiting bookmarks to not within a certain radius from gates and stations? Remove WTZ and disallow bookmarks closer than 15km to gates and stations CCP, the entire world is designed around conflict, and conflict will be much quicker and less irritating, dull, and stupid (a la station hugging and the other garbage), and mineral prices will go up, making miners happy. People can stay in NPC corps so as not to PVP, and otherwise use diplomacy, like they already do, so it will have nearly no effect on people that dont want to conflict. On the reverse side, if someone is in a non-pvp corp, gets decced, and then camped, they can easily hire mercs to just run in and clean out the other group, because it wont be a stupid station hugging, WTZ>Gate fest. It'll be forced fighting if they chose ships too slow, it'll make fast "raider type designed with mod and rig" ships more meaningful, it'll make everything better. Fit sensor bootsers on your ships, this make you lock faster so they dont warp away or go too stations.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.25 19:18:00 - [93] Originally by: Lt Angus Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Herateis because someone who wants easy ganks and assured PVP is a carebear?.. do not get.. Actually, yes. misses the good ole days when carebear meant what it meant(Anti-PKs) The definition hasn't changed much really. Take the OP, for example, he doesn't want to get PK'd . Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Takashi Halamoto No Limit Productions Looney Toons.	Posted - 2010.06.25 19:55:00 - [94] except people will just make bookmarks for the 'sweet spot' just like we did with warp to 15's high sec is not meant to be easy to get kills in, nor is low, camp the other side of the gate and get them as they align and try to warp, life does not hand a win on a silver plate, evolve or die Me? im just sitting here,
FeralShadow Black Storm Cartel The Orca Syndicate	Posted - 2010.06.25 20:03:00 - [95] Edited by: FeralShadow on 25/06/2010 20:04:26 I didn't like it when they implemented it, and I'm still not a fan of warp to zero. But.. Let's be realistic. There are other ways of solving the issue than simply "remove warp to zero". Sure, we could remove bookmarks within X distance and disallow bookmarks within X distance but let's for a second look at other solutions: Solution 1: High security interdiction sphere. Just like the null sec one, but works on only war targets (or everybody in low sec). Ok well it's early for me and that's the only solution I have right now but... It would stand to reason that if your corporation was war decced you should suit up for war and adopt a "this is war time" attitude. As such, I would hope everybody was familiar with scouts and their proper use for finding and reporting dictors. Idealism, i know But as of right now, OP, the only way to really catch frigates and fast destroyers/cruisers is to use a heavy interdictor with the interdiction script (the infini-point as many people like to call it) because it will stop ships even with warp ...... whatever you call them I haven't used one in years... the... Warp Core Stabalizer. There ya go. So heavy dictor with interdiction script loaded with sensor boosters with a buddy or two remote sensor boosting the dictor..... You'd be amazed at how much stuff it can catch it locks incredibly fast. That's what people are saying there. Learn to play the game as it is, and find alternative solutions to problems that dont take away something that a lot of people enjoy. -FeralShadow Edit: Oh yeah and the biggest weapon you have is letting the enemy screw up for you. Let them make the mistakes. You'd be really surprised at how often it happens. _______________________________________________ "If you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack." - Kenshin Himura
Herateis	Posted - 2010.07.03 22:15:00 - [96] eve would die without warping to zero because carebears would get ganked 24/7 and then there woukld be no market goods.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.03 23:30:00 - [97] Originally by: Takashi Halamoto except people will just make bookmarks for the 'sweet spot' just like we did with warp to 15's oh man this is so hard to logic my way around squints eyes and holds breath and make straining sound oh i know. warp to whatever you want, but all warps have a random +/- 15km accuracy of where you actually land maybe you'll warp to 0 maybe you'll warp to 5 maybe you'll warp to 14.5 either way, eve will be better for it oh, and don't tell people what you think high or low sec is supposed to be, unless you've been here to see it evolve into what it is eve shouldn't hand anything on a silver plate. kills or survival -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.
Spurty Caldari D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.07.03 23:42:00 - [98] Edited by: Spurty on 03/07/2010 23:42:52 Posting in a qq concerning blasters / nano / missiles / ECM / bookmarks thread NAPS: forcing you to play 'their' game
Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.07.03 23:47:00 - [99] Originally by: XenosisReaper TL:DR, but I pretty sure you're an idiot. -----
Vexidious	Posted - 2010.07.04 00:08:00 - [100] Originally by: XenosisReaper TL:DR, but I pretty sure you're an idiot.
Chai N'Dorr Rumrunner Logistics	Posted - 2010.07.04 00:58:00 - [101] Back in the day we didn't have WTZ and no BM's behind gate. So, people had dual AB/MWD for the last bit. Pirates cried their little pirate hearts out, so CCP removed the dual AB/MWD option. Thus the massive BM'ing started. Two reasons: 1. yes, folks didn't like to be ganked. 2. folks HATE time sinks. Now you (carebear pirates) cry again about WTZ. Well, since the AB/MWD option is valid again, I suppose you could get it and then repeat history once more. Quote: Why did CCP, in all their wisdom, break their own game by offering WTZ Because people leave if time sink > play time. _
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.04 01:04:00 - [102] Originally by: Chai N'Dorr Quote: Why did CCP, in all their wisdom, break their own game by offering WTZ Because people leave if time sink > play time. now that just isn't true. ccp did not make wtz so you can travel faster ccp made wtz to reduce bookmarks. however this (along with 24hr jump clones and jump freighters) has made eve a much MUCH smaller place than it was before as a person that had MUCH play time in before wtz was even thought of, i have to say i think the game was better off before WTZ -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.
Brandrsun Caldari	Posted - 2010.07.04 02:26:00 - [103] Originally by: XenosisReaper TL:DR, but I pretty sure you're an idiot.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2010.07.04 02:32:00 - [104] Originally by: Isil Rahsen Originally by: 1Ekrid1 Concentrated Fail jesus christ , and I thought NightmareX was dumb. He is. The OP has a point, no ship has been killed in pvp since WTZ was introduced.
Cronus Zontanos	Posted - 2010.07.04 04:23:00 - [105] Originally by: Lady Karma The OP has a point, no ship has been killed in pvp since WTZ was introduced. Um... wut?
Lady Karma	Posted - 2010.07.04 04:28:00 - [106] Originally by: Cronus Zontanos Originally by: Lady Karma The OP has a point, no ship has been killed in pvp since WTZ was introduced. Um... wut? Too subtle for you?
Bek Thyron	Posted - 2010.07.04 04:28:00 - [107] Oh god, not you again. But i have to admit, your troll-fu is strong!
1Ekrid1	Posted - 2010.07.04 05:57:00 - [108] Edited by: 1Ekrid1 on 04/07/2010 05:56:55 Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Originally by: Takashi Halamoto except people will just make bookmarks for the 'sweet spot' just like we did with warp to 15's oh man this is so hard to logic my way around squints eyes and holds breath and make straining sound oh i know. warp to whatever you want, but all warps have a random +/- 15km accuracy of where you actually land maybe you'll warp to 0 maybe you'll warp to 5 maybe you'll warp to 14.5 either way, eve will be better for it oh, and don't tell people what you think high or low sec is supposed to be, unless you've been here to see it evolve into what it is eve shouldn't hand anything on a silver plate. kills or survival exactly! Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia Originally by: Chai N'Dorr Quote: Why did CCP, in all their wisdom, break their own game by offering WTZ Because people leave if time sink > play time. now that just isn't true. ccp did not make wtz so you can travel faster ccp made wtz to reduce bookmarks. however this (along with 24hr jump clones and jump freighters) has made eve a much MUCH smaller place than it was before as a person that had MUCH play time in before wtz was even thought of, i have to say i think the game was better off before WTZ exactly! Originally by: Chai N'Dorr Back in the day we didn't have WTZ and no BM's behind gate. So, people had dual AB/MWD for the last bit. Pirates cried their little pirate hearts out, so CCP removed the dual AB/MWD option. Thus the massive BM'ing started. Two reasons: 1. yes, folks didn't like to be ganked. 2. folks HATE time sinks. Now you (carebear pirates) cry again about WTZ. Well, since the AB/MWD option is valid again, I suppose you could get it and then repeat history once more. Quote: Why did CCP, in all their wisdom, break their own game by offering WTZ . after removing your fail part of your post; exactly! There's 1, repeat 1, frigate in the T1 lineup designed to be a suicide tackler. the rest are for COMBAT. so don't tell me to tackle when I'm in a combat T1 frig. OR tell CCP to fix their mess.
Battlecheese	Posted - 2010.07.04 05:57:00 - [109] Edited by: Battlecheese on 04/07/2010 06:03:35 Most of you guys are getting distracted by the words and are missing the actual point of the OP. I'm with Avon etc. I liked EVE much more when it was bigger - travelling used to be a much more serious undertaking. Taking a fleet on a 50-jump trip is just too easy currently. I quite liked the idea on page 2 of having bookmarks (_all_ bookmarks) decay or possibly just become less accurate with time. This might make POS maintenance even more of a pita, though maybe it'll make it less appealing to maintain dozens of them with a freighter, which can only be a good thing surely. Edit: The decay time might be 24 hrs? Long enough for a major fleet to send a scout ahead for any particularly critical area.
Jaina Kort	Posted - 2010.07.04 06:37:00 - [110] I miss my nano battleships! I say CCP just goes back to them, because I like flying faster than people in smaller ships and it helps to get to the gates faster. Running faster than missles is just so fun, but the small ships can explode faster than my BS. Also, I was not happy with the speed nerfs, as I cant always get in as fast as I did before. Oh yeah, my Domi is no longer able to NOS people to 0 anymore. This was the worst fix, and when CCP goes back to that, it should not Concordable as I am only draining energy and not actually attacking anyone. I want CCP to implement a bomb that when dropped only target people that I decide to wardec. This way, I can wardec newb corps and not be concorded in Hi-Sec, because this is war. Since "no ships have been blown up in PVP since the WTZ" was implemented, I think it should be that it is removed. If someone warps within 10 km of any station, POS, or stargate or even Concord, then they are concorded as it should be considered an act of aggression against Concord itself. This should solve the problem of bookmarks. Or how about if you wardec a corporation and they use WTZ, they are charged 200,000 ISK each time and it is put into my account. Also, the same goes for bookmarks. I think that I have come up with the ultimate solutions to problems that I have been having. I hope this is all implemented in the next patch. For anyone slow out there, this is sarcasm 4. Sorry, still have about 50 more days of training for sarcasm 5. Oh yeah, BTW, I want my learning skills to be faster than others when they remove them as I have them all to 5 and want to train faster than anyone that did not have them to 5.
Baneken Gallente Aseveljet	Posted - 2010.07.04 07:49:00 - [111] Considering that 1ekrid1 claims to have removed EVE from his computer (so that he can't legitimately post his kill mail of getting BBQed by a T3), he is still remarkably interested about this game and where it's heading... Or maybe OP is actually trolling us, the horror ! http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Doddy The Executives IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.07.04 08:11:00 - [112] There have been alot of terrible posters on this forum over the years, but this guys purity of vision and strength of purpose take the fail to a whole new level.
Gleabus	Posted - 2010.07.04 09:17:00 - [113] Originally by: XenosisReaper TL:DR, but I pretty sure you're an idiot. if ccp didn't want wtz then ccp would prevent wtz, working as intended
Chai N'Dorr Rumrunner Logistics	Posted - 2010.07.04 13:27:00 - [114] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia now that just isn't true. ccp did not make wtz so you can travel faster ccp made wtz to reduce bookmarks. And tell me this: Why did people create BM's to WTZ? For fun? 'Cause I sure didn't have fun doing it, but it did save me a lot of time in the end. It is true that CCP didn't do it so folks can travel faster, they did it to cut down on database lag. They also acknowledged that folks hated that bit of stupid travel time. _
RandomYarrr	Posted - 2010.07.04 16:33:00 - [115] Posting in an Ekrid whine thread.
Pr1ncess Alia	Posted - 2010.07.04 17:20:00 - [116] Originally by: Chai N'Dorr Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia now that just isn't true. ccp did not make wtz so you can travel faster ccp made wtz to reduce bookmarks. And tell me this: Why did people create BM's to WTZ? For fun? 'Cause I sure didn't have fun doing it, but it did save me a lot of time in the end. It is true that CCP didn't do it so folks can travel faster, they did it to cut down on database lag. They also acknowledged that folks hated that bit of stupid travel time. well i hate doing missions/whatever to earn my isk but i don't see CCP depositing isk into my wallet to save me the trouble so i can go pvp all the time. seriously, go read how mmo's and time sinks work so you can realize you are completely bass ackwards here WTZ was a classic case of ruining a mechanic to solve a problem. It's not the first or the last time CCP will do it. -- A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game.
JC Anderson Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.05 06:25:00 - [117] Edited by: JC Anderson on 05/07/2010 06:29:25 I am a carebear yet I've still never been a fan of warp to zero nor the insta bm's people once used The game in general just seemed bigger to me than it does now. Then again there were no jump bridges or jump freighters back then either. I think perhaps I also miss the paranoia that came with warp to 15 as well. However I understand why ccp made the change and I believe nothing good could possibly come from removing wtz from the game at this point. Oh and despite not being a fan of bookmarks I must confess that I do miss the isk I made selling bookmark sets on contract. ;)
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2010.07.05 10:29:00 - [118] Eve space, and it's mechanics are simplistic and rather dated. Why waste time putting lipstick on this old pig? The destiny of destiny is to be removed or limp along for ever. Upgrade space. CCP says it wants to make Eve the great sci-fi simulator ... Won't happen till space is space and not bowls full of motor oil. The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
James Hawkins	Posted - 2010.07.05 10:32:00 - [119] so after "t3 killed eve" didnt workt out u blame WTZ for ur crappy gaming experience ? stop poasting already .... fly dangerous
Miilla	Posted - 2010.07.05 10:34:00 - [120] Edited by: Miilla on 05/07/2010 10:35:24 Warp to zero? Bookmarks? Why didnt you tell me! I only finally reached the Gate in Rens to Jump to Frarn, It took me 4 hours to get there. You really know what is killing eve? Carebears. Nerfing eve. every patch.

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