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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:04:00 - [31] Don't really understand why you need a bond. If you plan to make money just sell some. Trinity will want to step in and take at least 1. You could do an advance auction of the vessels. After many loans and bonds from alliances turning bad, I would want to see collateral (held by Chribba/other outside of Hydra) or Bad Bobby personal guarantee on the bond. Again I don't really understand need for this.
Professor Leech Transmetropolitan	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:11:00 - [32] Originally by: cosmoray Again I don't really understand need for this. You don't understand why they need isk? By the looks they need the utility of the isk now rather than trying to cash in slowly (avoiding crashing the market). This is one of the few unique situations where finance is needed. Originally by: LADY MEGA because of the PI?
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:18:00 - [33] Originally by: Professor Leech Originally by: cosmoray Again I don't really understand need for this. You don't understand why they need isk? By the looks they need the utility of the isk now rather than trying to cash in slowly (avoiding crashing the market). This is one of the few unique situations where finance is needed. From above it looks like the price of each ship is 30B, at least one sells instantly (Trinity). Why do they need much more immediately. Would you invest in a 100B+ bond (price of 3-4 ships) without collateral? If you are providing collateral why would you not just sell the ships.
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:26:00 - [34] Makes perfect sense to me. The difference between firesale and maximum price could be 5-10b or 15-30%. I would use an alternate 3rd party, Grendell comes to mind; collateralize with the ships at a conservative firesale value; sellout 3% bonds in < 24 hours; and then buy back bonds as you sell ships.
Bad Bobby The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:31:00 - [35] Originally by: cosmoray From above it looks like the price of each ship is 30B, at least one sells instantly (Trinity). Why do they need much more immediately. We are looking at something in the region of 100b and that would only cover our immediate needs. So yes we are planning to sell a handfull of Utus to cover the bond and a few more to cover costs that can wait a little longer. Timing, like I said, is the key factor here. We want the isk now and we want to sell the Utus over time, we are willing to pay a precentage to achieve that. Originally by: SetrakDark Makes perfect sense to me. The difference between firesale and maximum price could be 5-10b or 15-30%. Exactly. We do not wish to repeat the mistakes of previous AT winners, we would prefer to handle our Utus like CO2 handled their Frekis. Originally by: SetrakDark sellout 3% bonds in < 24 hours; and then buy back bonds as you sell ships. Precisely.
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc. HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:41:00 - [36] Originally by: cosmoray Originally by: Professor Leech Originally by: cosmoray Again I don't really understand need for this. You don't understand why they need isk? By the looks they need the utility of the isk now rather than trying to cash in slowly (avoiding crashing the market). This is one of the few unique situations where finance is needed. From above it looks like the price of each ship is 30B, at least one sells instantly (Trinity). Why do they need much more immediately. Would you invest in a 100B+ bond (price of 3-4 ships) without collateral? If you are providing collateral why would you not just sell the ships. Because the slowlier you sell them the more isk you can get off them. Also the bond is instanteneous isk whereas selling the ships, even at way lower than 30 bil, will take several weeks since not everyone is interested in a multi bil frigade. Hydra is full of poor***s who cant afford to rig their rifters so garmon is trying to give everyone some money fast to prevent people like Intigo eating from the bin. Lastly I dont see why the bond cant be guaranteed by depositing some of the utus to Chribba (unless that is already the plan) - Gob
Shiroi Okami Gallente Mad Bombers HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:48:00 - [37] If intigo is eating out of the bin, and I'm poorer than him, where does that leave me?
Bad Bobby The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:52:00 - [38] Originally by: Shiroi Okami If intigo is eating out of the bin, and I'm poorer than him, where does that leave me? Intigo's lunch.
Dalts	Posted - 2010.06.24 20:55:00 - [39] I assume the reason for this is they want ISK now and know how long it took for the prizes to appear last time. Anyway, if they want to sell slowly to get great prices, but get Chribba to hold one of the BPCs for the ships as collateral until the bond pays back, assuming they come in BPCs of 5 or 10 runs. Simples.
Death4free Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.24 23:33:00 - [40] Edited by: Death4free on 24/06/2010 23:33:26 Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: 5kyscreamx HYDRA will provil in providing you a great financial service Wouldnt trust this guy if he offers you anything tbh hes a known scammer and all round bad guy also hes a terribad poster

William Pierce Caldari Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.24 23:38:00 - [41] Originally by: Dalts I assume the reason for this is they want ISK now and know how long it took for the prizes to appear last time. Anyway, if they want to sell slowly to get great prices, but get Chribba to hold one of the BPCs for the ships as collateral until the bond pays back, assuming they come in BPCs of 5 or 10 runs. Simples. It says in the OP that the bond will be issued when the Utus are in our hands. The only reason for it is so we can have some ISK while still being able to sell the Utus slowly to maximize profit.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.06.25 00:14:00 - [42] Originally by: Bad Bobby Exactly. We do not wish to repeat the mistakes of previous AT winners, we would prefer to handle our Utus like CO2 handled their Frekis. So that means your alliance will have the balls to field them Go Go 2nd place sellouts! <3 you Bobby!!
Shiroi Okami Gallente Mad Bombers HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.25 02:11:00 - [43] Originally by: Death4free Edited by: Death4free on 24/06/2010 23:33:26 Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: 5kyscreamx HYDRA will provil in providing you a great financial service Wouldnt trust this guy if he offers you anything tbh hes a known scammer and all round bad guy also hes a terribad poster m8 you insult the honour of HYDRA RELOADED. Do you want HYDRA RELOADED to bring our wrath down upon you?
Bad Bobby The Dirty Rotten Scoundrels HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.25 05:37:00 - [44] Originally by: Breaker77 So that means your alliance will have the balls to field them Clearly. We are looking forward to fielding them in roaming gangs and in future tournaments. Garmon will probably be soloing in one as soon as CCP hand them over to him. Originally by: Breaker77 Go Go 2nd place sellouts! We could not disappoint our Pandemic Legion overlords. Originally by: Breaker77 <3 you Bobby!! <3 you 2 hun
Trayjan	Posted - 2010.06.25 11:21:00 - [45] good timing. with one stop being refinanced and LYII closing, i think many people will have underutilized ISK in their wallets shortly.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.06.25 12:02:00 - [46] Originally by: Bad Bobby Clearly. We are looking forward to fielding them in roaming gangs and in future tournaments. Garmon will probably be soloing in one as soon as CCP hand them over to him. Good to hear. Nothing better than having tens of thousands of people watching one go down. That was the best/worst part of CO2 fielding the Frekis. Lets just hope that CCP doesn't take 4 months to hand them out like in the past On an unrelated note, have you thought about setting up a mailing list for your bonds/offerings?
Death4free Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.06.25 15:39:00 - [47] Originally by: Shiroi Okami Originally by: Death4free Edited by: Death4free on 24/06/2010 23:33:26 Originally by: Nexus Kinnon Originally by: 5kyscreamx HYDRA will provil in providing you a great financial service Wouldnt trust this guy if he offers you anything tbh hes a known scammer and all round bad guy also hes a terribad poster m8 you insult the honour of HYDRA RELOADED. Do you want HYDRA RELOADED to bring our wrath down upon you? m8 i dont rat in 0.0 and i dont mine so ur basically screwed
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate	Posted - 2010.06.25 15:52:00 - [48] IÆm sure this bond will sell out once Chribba confirms he is holding suitable collateral.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.06.25 16:25:00 - [49] Originally by: Jackie Fisher IÆm sure this bond will sell out once Bobby says send me your ISK now! Fixed it for ya
ZeJesus	Posted - 2010.06.25 17:14:00 - [50] What is an UTU? What does it look like? What are its attributes? A pic perhaps? Some link?

Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.06.25 17:26:00 - [51] This thread has links to screenshots of both prize ships http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1321744 Very nice prizes indeed
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.25 17:28:00 - [52] Originally by: Smelly Bait From: Count MonteCarlo Sent: 2010.06.22 15:54 To: @*@@@ I dont have the Utus yet, and they're not going to be treated like PL treated the mimirs last year ( gave them to a lot of people and firesaled them all ) the price is set as 30b, same as frekis Are you the only recipients of these frigates?
PinkFish	Posted - 2010.06.25 17:36:00 - [53] This is an obvious scam. Bad Bobby has deliberately avoided the issue of getting an audit!
Raziphan Rebular Caldari Polished Diamond Industries	Posted - 2010.06.25 17:36:00 - [54] sounds like a scam, considering the antics by hydra recently and the joke of a bond post I expect it is.
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate	Posted - 2010.06.25 17:40:00 - [55] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Jackie Fisher IÆm sure this bond will sell out once Bobby says send me your ISK now! Fixed it for ya We shall see.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.06.25 17:42:00 - [56] Edited by: Breaker77 on 25/06/2010 17:43:11 Originally by: Raziphan Rebular sounds like a scam, considering the antics by hydra recently and the joke of a bond post I expect it is. Yeah, he already has close to 240 billion in public funds, most of which is locked down in titan BPOs. He's definitely going to grab the ISK and run I'm going to laugh and/or cry when it fills up in about 3 minutes, mainly because I will probably miss out on getting to invest edit: man I need to find something to do, my forum whoring is getting bad today
Count MonteCarlo Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.06.25 21:06:00 - [57] Originally by: Varo Jan Are you the only recipients of these frigates? Yes I am Originally by: ZeJesus What is an UTU? What does it look like? What are its attributes? A pic perhaps? Some link? 50 Utus were given out in this years alliance tournament to hydra's team captain, unlike the mimir (rupture hull) and adrestia (thorax hull) they're not terrible and have their uses, a Utu is capable of tackling at 75k while a freki can web at 44k, also the Utu is capable of fitting 10mn AB along with a mwd, goes 5.7km/s with the overloaded AB with 28 sig radius, although you need to use the mwd in cohesion with the AB to avoid the agility problems a 10mn AB would bring
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.06.25 21:29:00 - [58] Edited by: SetrakDark on 25/06/2010 21:29:35 Originally by: Count MonteCarlo a Utu is capable of tackling at 75k while a freki can web at 44k, also the Utu is capable of fitting 10mn AB along with a mwd, goes 5.7km/s with the overloaded AB with 28 sig radius, although you need to use the mwd in cohesion with the AB to avoid the agility problems a 10mn AB would bring *splo.oge
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.06.26 01:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Count MonteCarlo Originally by: Varo Jan Are you the only recipients of these frigates? Yes I am So that does put you in a position to set an initial market price. However, while you may wish to sell them for 30B, at the end of the day the market will decide the price, and that could be less or more. Because it could be less, more ships would need to be provided to satisfy investors that the offering is fully collateralised. Presumably 7 or so ships won't be a problem for you as you intend to keep the majority. Because BB is a member of your alliance, he should not hold the collateral. That ensures total transparency. BB can obtain funds at 3% because he has established a business reputation. Hydra clearly has a reputation on the battlefield, but has no reputation when it comes to raising funds. Saying you need the money to repay out of pocket members makes your case worse as it gives the impression the alliance has run out of money. So if you proceed with a bond in the alliance's name, 3% would not be warranted. If BB takes the bond out in his own name, 3% would be warranted but the ships would have to be held by another trusted party. Finally, this bond cannot be raised until the ships are in your hands. So why not just do an advance auction and have done with it? Cash received from the auction would be held by an independent third party pending delivery of the ships.
SetrakDark Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.06.26 01:30:00 - [60] Originally by: Varo Jan So that does put you in a position to set an initial market price. However, while you may wish to sell them for 30B, at the end of the day the market will decide the price, and that could be less or more. Because it could be less, more ships would need to be provided to satisfy investors that the offering is fully collateralised. Presumably 7 or so ships won't be a problem for you as you intend to keep the majority. Because BB is a member of your alliance, he should not hold the collateral. That ensures total transparency. BB can obtain funds at 3% because he has established a business reputation. Hydra clearly has a reputation on the battlefield, but has no reputation when it comes to raising funds. Saying you need the money to repay out of pocket members makes your case worse as it gives the impression the alliance has run out of money. So if you proceed with a bond in the alliance's name, 3% would not be warranted. If BB takes the bond out in his own name, 3% would be warranted but the ships would have to be held by another trusted party. Agreed. Originally by: Varo Jan Finally, this bond cannot be raised until the ships are in your hands. So why not just do an advance auction and have done with it? Cash received from the auction would be held by an independent third party pending delivery of the ships. Excellent advice. No reason not to take pre-orders or early auctions. Might, as suggested, avoid the need for a bond altogether or at least some amount. No reason to assume you won't get an optimal price.



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