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Solomunio Kzenig Amarr InterSun Freelance	Posted - 2010.06.26 09:29:00 - [31] Originally by: myfirst Originally by: Phaese It is literally impossible to get killed in highsec in a blockade runner. Are you aware that they can fit cloaking devices? I was talking about T2 Haulers, not some armored trolley with a cloaking ability ^^Shows you are an idiot Originally by: Hyveres Edited by: Hyveres on 26/06/2010 05:57:04 as I see it for low cubage high value cargo when you want to be 100% certain of avoiding ganks. Use the orca and keep your cargo in the corp hangars which makes it not visible for cargo scanners. on the other hand using an Orca to hide my cargo is kinda...... weird, you have to admit. 1) thats not what an Orca is supposed to 2) i'm for sure not skilling it, even if my char is 4 years old and i claim to be a carebear ^^ Fail at compehension of EVE game mechanics and ship-bonuses/attributes.
Retsujin	Posted - 2010.06.26 10:08:00 - [32] However unfortunate it may be, high-sec ganking is and has always been a welcome part of the game. CONCORD has only one job and that's to punish the attackers; they have absolutely no responsibility in saving you, your ship or your isk. I mean no offense to those who disagree but if one cannot find a solution that works that person should not be risking the hard-earned isk he/she has by assuming that everything will be alright due to high-security. It takes strategy, precautions and a little bit of luck to assure that, even with the occasional loss because of a ganker, one still profits. I do agree that suicide-ganking is far too profitable but if you find yourself losing more money to them than you are making through other trades, all you have to do is become a suicide-ganker and you'll win for sure. Good luck either way, and fly safe.
Grunanca Final Agony B A N E	Posted - 2010.06.26 10:24:00 - [33] Originally by: myfirst So, highsec ganking is not something new to you ppl. But in last weeks its becoming ridicolous, i lost several billions through that. Was it tanked haulers, T1 or T2, it doesn't matter anymore, everything is being ganked. Well, i'm still alive and healthy, but annoyed. I also know a lot of ppl, which were being ganked too. So, this is NOT highsec anymore, highsec is a lie. This is not that EVE anymore, when i started it 4 years ago. Its not that i got ganked recently and still be ****ed and cant get over it. This is more like a change in EVE, which is unbearable and not logical (see below) Checking the forums i found a nice idea to not pay insurance anymore, when being shot down by CONCORD. Imo a very good idea. But thats just to make this criticism creative. My request is now, is there ANY plans to solve highsec ganking? Or does CCP just watch the fun, that PvP is happening now in highsec too without wardec? If there is no change planned in near future, i have to admit, that this is not my kind of fun anymore. And sry, i know lot of ppl with the same thought. So i would be careful, what you do with those carebears in EVE. Not to talk from all the Hulkageddons ops. You may want to say whining carebear. But if you provide PvP and economic and industrial stuff in 1 game, but you allow PvP everywhere without any drawbacks for PvP'ers, naming systems highsec or lowsec then is a lie, T2 haulers become useless, even every hauler becomes useless. Taking revenge is impossible because of using alts for ganking. "I know this is a game and real life does not always apply, but just to point out the absurdity of the situation here is a real life comparison: -Bank Robbers buy Armoured vehicle for hit and run on Bank. -Bank Robbers succesfully knock down bank walls but are killed by police in the process. -Seemingly unrelated 3rd party walks into Bank vault and takes all the money, without committing a crime. Police stand around and watch. -Friendly insurance company generously compensates bank robbers' families for 'unfortunate' loss of life and their armoured vehicle." Myfi The risk of you getting uncloaked in a cloaky hauler on a gate is about 1 to 250 per ship that is in 15km orbit and more than 4 km from each other. I have a hard time believing that you have been that unlucky several times... The risk of it happening several times is 1 to 62500 per ship on the gate.
CeneUJiti	Posted - 2010.06.26 10:25:00 - [34] I said it a hundred times. Stop trading, mining, running missions, and earn your ISK like CCP intends you to, and all PVPers agree, buy and sell GTCs and PLEXES. Now seriously. If you autopilot a ship with 0 tank and hundred of millions in cargo, its your fault and people would manage to suicide on you even if they stopped paying insurance for CONCORD kills. But also. Fast locking scout with passive targets and cargo scanners on gate before, that will scan you while you align (even if you use alts to web yourself to align faster) and a waiting gate camp with scramblers mean that you will die even if using only WTZ and having alts (whats a mere $45-60 per months for a game as good as EVE, eh?) will not save you from a determined bunch of gankers. You can just stay in Jita and trade all day, 0.01 ISK-ing your orders every 30 seconds.
Lusty Wench	Posted - 2010.06.26 10:26:00 - [35] I got done once Auto Piloting back home from Jita in a T1 Frig, for like 4-5 CN BCS, I'd saved for EVER to get them... I was ****ed. Since that time, I developed for myself a little mantra. "Concord won't protect me, but they will avenge me." or... "Concord aren't there to protect me, they are there to punish my attackers" They are just like the police IRL, not there to protect you, but to find and punish those who do you wrong. Feel free to use either or both in your Bio...
Dodgy Past Amarr Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.06.26 10:34:00 - [36] If I can get 6bn worth of stuff from Stain to Jita safely then surely you must be doing something wrong to get hit so hard. A while back I nearly lost quite a large amount to a failed suicide attack, but fortunately my tank was just enough, from that point on I've always matched my risk / reward. E.G. having got all that stuff safely into hi sec I then broke it down into smaller chunks and did multiple freighter runs to get it to Jita, so I wasn't a worthwhile target. Personally I'd recommend doing a bit of your own suiciding as research and then you'll have a far better idea of what precautions to take. My logistics alt flies everything from Covops to Jump Freighters and uses whatever is most suited for the job in hand. OTOH I've killed all the ships he flies and have a good idea of what mistakes they made to turn themselves into a target for me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
Spurty Caldari D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.06.26 10:35:00 - [37] Stuff running missions for days, fighting for a plex! Gank someone elses pve stuff or just rob em blind right in front of them during the mission Zymurgist ACCIDENTALLY my thargoid
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives	Posted - 2010.06.26 10:49:00 - [38] Originally by: Nalesh Edited by: Nalesh on 26/06/2010 08:29:35 Listen you little carebears, it's called HIGH security, not PERFECT security. GB2WOW I think what's worse than people complaining about the imperfections of high security space are those people who somehow elicit macho posturing from the situation. They are insufferable ?
JacobsGladedage	Posted - 2010.06.26 10:59:00 - [39] You've got your take on security status all wrong if you think high-sec gives you any form of safety. It may seem safer because not everyone is willing to pay the price it costs to commit crimes there; but the only thing high-sec does different than any other space is the guaranteed revenge.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.06.26 11:08:00 - [40] Originally by: Wyke Mossari Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: myfirst snipped Do you want to admit now that you were AFK, or do we have to go through several pages of bull**** first? That is actually irrelevant, blah blah blah more tosh I've heard a hundred times before Listen, These stupid threads have been popping up regularly ever since CONCORD was introduced, and I really dont have the energy to go through the same arguments yet again. All I will say is that - given the scale of losses that you claim - I suggest that you start playing the game as it is, rather than as you wish it were. Hi-sec isn't perfectly safe and you make it hugely unsafer for yourself by AFKing about with valuable cargo. I know full well that you wont take this good advice, and that you'll respond with some contorted logic as to why you should be allowed to make as much ISK as you like in perfect safety, and possibly conjecture that I was abused as a child, or perhaps bullied at school. But the plain fact remains: if you make it easy for people to take your stuff, then they will. Anyway, carry on. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.06.26 13:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Malcanis blah blah blah more tosh I've heard a hundred times before You always have the option to ignore these threads. You certainly seem to have ignored what I actually wrote and assumed you knew what I wrote so you're half way there. Originally by: Malcanis Listen, These stupid threads have been popping up regularly ever since CONCORD was introduced, and I really dont have the energy to go through the same arguments yet again. The only thing that proves is that you cannot justify suicide ganking under written by insurance. Originally by: Malcanis All I will say is that - given the scale of losses that you claim - I suggest that you start playing the game as it is, rather than as you wish it were. Hi-sec isn't perfectly safe and you make it hugely unsafer for yourself by AFKing about with valuable cargo. Faulty logic, based on a flawed assumption. You should not jump to conclusions, it's lazy thinking and just under lines the point above. That you cannot justify your position of risk free suicide ganking. Originally by: Malcanis I know full well that you wont take this good advice, and that you'll respond with some contorted logic as to why you should be allowed to make as much ISK as you like in perfect safety, And a hypocrite to boot. High sec haulers risk their loads every time they leave a station. You want Risk free suicide ganking.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.06.26 14:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Wyke Mossari High sec haulers risk their loads every time they leave a station. Alternatively you might wanna be creative and find other ways to haul your stuff... in a way that draws less attention. Item DB \| Sigs
Joe Skellington Minmatar JOKAS Industries Apocalypse Now.	Posted - 2010.06.26 14:07:00 - [43] Originally by: Kaptain Kruncher Join a corp or make a corp that does something about it. Gank the gankers. I always kind of admire Cat O' Ninetails and Rancer Defense League for that. One of the things that makes Eve so interesting is that you can start the revolution. If the Goons could be a major pain in everyone's ass for years, certainly a bunch of do gooders can do the opposite. You could be their leader. Or, you could remain a victim. Either way, pull your pants up and get on with it. ^^^
Jason Babbage	Posted - 2010.06.26 14:11:00 - [44] For crying out loud. Eve is not suppose to be an easy game, why don't you just try and figure out a solution to your problem rather than just begging the developers to make the game easier for everyone? You seem to be ganked a bit more than your average player, perhaps you have "smack talked" you way into some enemies? I don't know but I call shananigans on the amount of ganking you seem to be saying is taking place in high sec. I just don't see it. Also read this article, I believe it will help you out quite a bit: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Avoiding_cargo_scans
Corcyrus Endymion	Posted - 2010.06.26 14:41:00 - [45] Edited by: Corcyrus Endymion on 26/06/2010 14:40:56 Last 2-3 months I had multiple people transport multiple shipments for me, to the tune of some 40B, in stacks ranging from 1B to 5B. These goods were all transported through heavily ganker invested areas. All shipments arrived safe and sound: As such I conclude that, yes it is 100% possible to transport crap through high sec without a hitch. When I still transported my stuff myself in a T1 indy, I did indeed get ganked and lost multiple billions of isk. This does not mean that high sec ganking is wrong or should be "fixed". It just means you're as dumb as a box of rocks to transport high value cargos in a cheap ship. Afk.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Wyke Mossari High sec haulers risk their loads every time they leave a station. Alternatively you might wanna be creative and find other ways to haul your stuff... in a way that draws less attention. Um, perhaps you should learn the difference between first, second and third person pronouns. CLUE-BAT: Look at the highlighted words.
Dan O'Connor Cerberus Network Dignitas.	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:13:00 - [47] Originally by: Wyke Mossari Originally by: Dan O'Connor Originally by: Wyke Mossari High sec haulers risk their loads every time they leave a station. Alternatively you might wanna be creative and find other ways to haul your stuff... in a way that draws less attention. Um, perhaps you should learn the difference between first, second and third person pronouns. I'm not sure what you mean but I'mma gonna guess and say that you failed at understanding that I didn't mean a person in particular. Item DB \| Sigs
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:16:00 - [48] Originally by: myfirst I was talking about T2 Haulers, not some armored trolley with a cloaking ability So have you tried using a Blockade Runner ù you know that T2 hauler that can fit cloaks and which is nigh-on invulnerable in high- and lowsec? Quote: on the other hand using an Orca to hide my cargo is kinda...... weird, you have to admit. What's wierd about it? It's a fast(ish) hauler with three different unscannable/unlootable cargo holds and almost twice the EHP of a Freighter. That makes it the opposite of wierd: a very very sensible choice. Oh, and where are these ganks happening? I'm travelling up and down the big pipelines and rarely see any CONCORD, especially compared to how it used to be. Quote: My request is now, is there ANY plans to solve highsec ganking? Or does CCP just watch the fun, that PvP is happening now in highsec too without wardec? Why would they "solve" it? It's not like it's a problem. In fact, it's a completely intended game mechanic, to the point where they point out these risks in the tutorial and new player information. Highsec was never in any way meant to be devoid of PvP ù highsec if simply defined by the fact that combat costs: you either pay ISK for a wardec, or you pay with your ship. So what is the actual problem here? What is it that needs to be "solved"? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:17:00 - [49] Originally by: Jason Babbage For crying out loud. Eve is not suppose to be an easy game Agreed and that same principle should be applied uniformly, that includes to high-sec pirate /suicide gankers.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Wyke Mossari Originally by: Jason Babbage For crying out loud. Eve is not suppose to be an easy game Agreed and that same principle should be applied uniformly, that includes to high-sec pirate /suicide gankers. The only reason it's easy for them is because they can rest assured that their victims won't hurt them right back. They can be safe in this knowledge, not because of some flaw in the game or the mechanics, but because the victims refuse to do so. They don't have to worry about the risks, because the people they attack choose to remove those risks for them. It's not an issue with the game ù it's an issue with the choices people make, and with them being annoyed that their choice not to do anything means that nothing happens (now there's a duh! if there ever was one). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:40:00 - [51] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Wyke Mossari Originally by: Jason Babbage For crying out loud. Eve is not suppose to be an easy game Agreed and that same principle should be applied uniformly, that includes to high-sec pirate /suicide gankers. The only reason it's easy for them is because they can rest assured that their victims won't hurt them right back. They can be safe in this knowledge, not because of some flaw in the game or the mechanics, but because the victims refuse to do so. They don't have to worry about the risks, because the people they attack choose to remove those risks for them. It's not an issue with the game ù it's an issue with the choices people make, and with them being annoyed that their choice not to do anything means that nothing happens (now there's a duh! if there ever was one). Yes and the reward should reflect that relatively low risk. The removal of insurance from concord kills does not change the actual risk, it makes the reward more closely match the risk. I actually relatively rewards smart pirates at the expense of dumb ones.
Party Scout	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:44:00 - [52] I fly my stuff in a shield tanked, damage control + reinforced bulkheads orca. Never been so much as targeted in any gate. Never fly any valuable stuff in industrials. That's a sure way to get ganked.
James5955	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:47:00 - [53] While I agree that someone suicide ganking and losing minimal isk for a kill thats worth TONS more isk may seem messed up, I think it's just another reason to be cautious and do whats needed to make sure your safe. As others said, high sec is safer not safe. This discussion reminds me of that vid where a guy kept going and mining in .1 sec w/ a cruiser and going on a rage fit because he kept getting killed. Simply put, should have been more careful.. have a few people as escorts, split the profit, w/e, do what you gotta do to be safe.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:56:00 - [54] Edited by: Tippia on 26/06/2010 15:57:03 Originally by: Wyke Mossari Yes and the reward should reflect that relatively low risk. The removal of insurance from concord kills does not change the actual risk, it makes the reward more closely match the risk. I actually relatively rewards smart pirates at the expense of dumb ones. But that's not something the game can fix: both the risk and the reward is in the hands of the players. If people are willing to offer up huge rewards with zero risk of retribution, then that's their choice, their problem, their fault ù it's not something the game should "solve" for them. Trying to "fix" the risk by further fiddling with the insurance will only breed even dumber haulers, which means that pirates can comfortably remain just as dumb as they are now and still cash in just as often. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:56:00 - [55] I get a laugh out of the poor logic skills here sometimes. Saying how EvE is supposed to be harsh, it s supposed to be non carebear blah blah blah. Its also supposed to be for profit, something most suicide gankers never see. Its your sandbox. This is clearly a signature.
Lemming One	Posted - 2010.06.26 15:58:00 - [56] Originally by: Tippia It's not an issue with the game ù it's an issue with the choices people make, and with them being annoyed that their choice not to do anything means that nothing happens (now there's a duh! if there ever was one). So if they stopped paying CCP, something would be done, you mean?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.26 16:01:00 - [57] Originally by: Lemming One So if they stopped paying CCP, something would be done, you mean? Nope. I mean that if people choose not to provide risk for their opponents, they forfeit any right to whine about the "risk vs. reward" of those opponents. Oh, and considering the current market, I'd say ganks need to be promoted. The game would improve immensely if (far) more stuff blew up than is currently the case. A good old mega-war would do too, but people NAP:ing themselves into a coma, so good luck with thatà ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.06.26 16:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Lemming One So if they stopped paying CCP, something would be done, you mean? Nope. I mean that if people choose not to provide risk for their opponents, they forfeit any right to whine about the "risk vs. reward" of those opponents. Oh, and considering the current market, I'd say ganks need to be promoted. The game would improve immensely if (far) more stuff blew up than is currently the case. A good old mega-war would do too, but people NAP:ing themselves into a coma, so good luck with thatà your sig says it all. Quote: ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki Suiciding isn't fighting by a longshot. This is clearly a signature.
Jason Babbage	Posted - 2010.06.26 16:09:00 - [59] Edited by: Jason Babbage on 26/06/2010 16:11:56 Edited by: Jason Babbage on 26/06/2010 16:11:11 Edited by: Jason Babbage on 26/06/2010 16:09:52 The real problem with this thread is the claim that suicide ganking is somehow a massive problem that is occuring up and down the length of high sec space. My personal observations within the game do not verify this claim in any way shape or form. So either I just don't get around enough, which is very possible, or the claim is simply not true. Can the OP in any way prove his claim of rampant high sec ganking? I'm just not seeing it. I spend most of my time in Forge and fly to Jita on a regular basis. Perhaps all this supposed ganking is occuring outside of The Forge, but that seems odd to me. I would think Jita was be the center of the ganking simply due to the high traffic and high ISK volume of cargo being transported. Anyway enough of my inane rambling. Bottom line is that I believe what I see, and I just don't see all the ganking that is supposedly happening rampantly accross high sec. Does it happen, sure, but I'm not convinced that it is happening in some game effecting ammounts as the OP is suggesting. Can you prove your claims OP? Perhaps your character has made some enemies and is the target of some dedicating ganking efforts and you are simply confusing your own problems with a game wide increase in high sec ganking. If the claim isn't true then the thread really has no point.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.06.26 16:11:00 - [60] Originally by: Cipher Jones your sig says it all. Quote: ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki Suiciding isn't fighting by a longshot. Of course not ù it's not for "what you have" after all, but rather for "what someone else has, but you want". It's the receiver of the gank that "has it" and who needs to fight to keep from losing it. àand, as mentioned, if they started to fight over their stuff, the risks for the gankers would increase dramatically; it would be easier to keep your stuff; and everyone would be happy. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki

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