Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Shootmenot dammit
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 06:31:00 -
[1]
...would any Gallente Frigate do?
I see people flying Dramiels all the time around our systems, and I'd love to go against them, but I am hopeless and horrible at this game.
Today I finish training what I consider to be a decent minimum of skills for Interceptors. Specially, the Ares.
In favor:
-I can lock rather decently. Sig Analysis V, unscripted sensor Booster II fitted. -I can get to around 5.000m/s without overloading the MWD. -I am cap stable with MWD and Disruptor running.
Against:
-I don't really know how to fly it, let's be honest.
What are my chances of staying 25 Km away from it, and surviving enough for some pals to kill it?
Any specific modules or tactics against these little bast...monsters?
|
Sadfacegoboom
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 06:46:00 -
[2]
The real answer to your question depends on the skill of the pilot in said Dramiel.( And how fast your friends could arrive on the scene)
Now to get into your For/Against list.... #1 A warp disrupter will not "CATCH" a Dramiel as warping off is not the hard thing to stop. Keeping if from scooting out of your range is the issue, as if the pilot feels they need too they can disengage at will.
#2 Your chances of staying 24km away from the Dramiel are very good when the Dramiel wants to be 24km away from you, and very bad when they want to quickly kill you and run while your friends watch unable to help.(Also depends on the Dramiels fit ofc.)
Now if you actually want to catch one, fit a web a scram and an ab and wait(fly like a you dont know what your doing) until the Dramiel comes in. Than hope the Dramiel pilot is so bad you could have done it in a Badger.
Also, try searching every other available how to kill/catch/survive a dramiel threads and see what others have written there.
|
Shootmenot dammit
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 06:56:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Sadfacegoboom The real answer to your question depends on the skill of the pilot in said Dramiel.( And how fast your friends could arrive on the scene)
Now to get into your For/Against list.... #1 A warp disrupter will not "CATCH" a Dramiel as warping off is not the hard thing to stop. Keeping if from scooting out of your range is the issue, as if the pilot feels they need too they can disengage at will.
#2 Your chances of staying 24km away from the Dramiel are very good when the Dramiel wants to be 24km away from you, and very bad when they want to quickly kill you and run while your friends watch unable to help.(Also depends on the Dramiels fit ofc.)
Now if you actually want to catch one, fit a web a scram and an ab and wait(fly like a you dont know what your doing) until the Dramiel comes in. Than hope the Dramiel pilot is so bad you could have done it in a Badger.
Also, try searching every other available how to kill/catch/survive a dramiel threads and see what others have written there.
So basically I cannot dictate range, and I cannot survive it unless my team is ready and near. And even then, he can just disengage at will if he's not horrible.
Well, they're not horrible. In fact they are from a rather respected PvP alliance which I doubt allows horribles into their ranks.
However, doesn't it feel wrong that a single ship is so overpowered in its category?
I wonder if the best thing would be to train for Dramiels myself. Thanks anyway.
|
foksieloy
Minmatar Universal Army Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 07:20:00 -
[4]
Several ways to take out a dramiel.
Zealot (or a ship which can perform a similar locking/tracking/alpha). If he screws up his transversal for just a few moments, *POP*. Daredevil. Although most dramiels will run like hell from one, so this one is more tricky than you might think. Rapiers. Although a dramiel will just GTFO when one arrives, even harder to pull out than the daredevil.
Bait. This is probably your best bet. Something juicy with a lot of webs and scram/point that the dramiel pilot will not be able to resist. Industrials come to mind, but do not fit a gun (that just screams trap), instead have neuts on it, a full rack of webs and a scram. Just hold him long enough for your mates to warp in and alpha it.
Problems is: the current cookie cutter dramiel has a WC stab (so a disruptor is not enough), and even webbed AND scrammed is faster than most other ships. It could run away from an industrial even if you double web it and scram it. So... triple web? _______________________ Drink Eau du Nichup«, the taste of heaven. Now available as Nichup Citrus« as well! |
Steve Celeste
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 08:32:00 -
[5]
Originally by: foksieloy Problems is: the current cookie cutter dramiel has a WC stab (so a disruptor is not enough),
Also: OP's ares if going to get ****ed up.
|
lilrez
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 08:42:00 -
[6]
An Arazu with the point range gang bonuses would do the trick.
A Minmatar Frig V Vigil could probably catch it and hold it down for a second.
Hope this helps~ |
Clytamnestra
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 09:07:00 -
[7]
Since I started flying the Arbitrator I've been meaning to try this trick on a Dramiel.
Put two optimal range disrupting tracking disruptors on the Dramiel. If he wants to do any kind of damage, he'll have to orbit really, really close. Then slap two small neuts on him. Hopefully having to orbit close means his lessened speed puts him at risk of getting hit by my small lazors and warriors.
When he starts to bug out, because I capped out his active tank or what-not, hopefully he disengages straight away from me, where I can get a few decent hits with my turrets. And capped out, with no afterburner them warriors might be able to hit him as well.
|
Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 09:12:00 -
[8]
I would think that something like a dual web, scram and neuting cane acting as bait could possibly do it. Another dram bait ship that I've been thinking of is the Republic fleet Sythe, a ship that is otherwise not really used much. It has a missile bonus for 3 amls plus projectile bonus for three acs (would fit two small neuts and one ac), 4 mids for dual web plus scram plus ab/mwd, 3 lows for plate, eanm/adpative and DCU or BCU if you're brave. Also has place for 8 light drones. If he kites at range, the amls should at least drive him off before he kills you, if he comes in close, he's dead. You might lose it (haven't checked the eft stats for survival against a dram's damage), but it won't cost more than a dram if you do.
Another way to do it, could be to fit faction webs/scrams.
|
Obyrith
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 10:05:00 -
[9]
Posting in a barely-disguised Dramiel whine thread.
|
RP McMurphy
The CULT OF DAMNED
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 10:23:00 -
[10]
if needs to be an ares: [Ares, tank] Damage Control II Adaptive Nano Plating II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Adaptive Nano Plating II
1MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II
[empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I
If dramiel is stupid enough to come into 10km range, he is dead..
|
|
Demolishar
United Aggression Eternal Ascension
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 11:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Clytamnestra Since I started flying the Arbitrator I've been meaning to try this trick on a Dramiel.
Put two optimal range disrupting tracking disruptors on the Dramiel. If he wants to do any kind of damage, he'll have to orbit really, really close. Then slap two small neuts on him. Hopefully having to orbit close means his lessened speed puts him at risk of getting hit by my small lazors and warriors.
When he starts to bug out, because I capped out his active tank or what-not, hopefully he disengages straight away from me, where I can get a few decent hits with my turrets. And capped out, with no afterburner them warriors might be able to hit him as well.
He won't engage an Arbitrator.
|
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 11:25:00 -
[12]
over tanked bait ship with scram and 2 webs, warp in sniper hacs at range, hope to pop him before he buggers off.
----------- Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Clytamnestra
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 11:46:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Marko Riva over tanked bait ship with scram and 2 webs, warp in sniper hacs at range, hope to pop him before he buggers off.
Honestly, this is probably your best tactic. The issue here is that even with two webs, unless you're in a ship with bonuses to web speed reduction, he can still disengage from most fights.
|
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 11:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Clytamnestra
Originally by: Marko Riva over tanked bait ship with scram and 2 webs, warp in sniper hacs at range, hope to pop him before he buggers off.
Honestly, this is probably your best tactic. The issue here is that even with two webs, unless you're in a ship with bonuses to web speed reduction, he can still disengage from most fights.
Double troll! 8/10
Quite a lot of stuff can kill a Dramiel if you can bait him to engage. I prefer a Dram of my own btw. ---------- www.eve-arena.com
|
Shootmenot dammit
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 12:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Obyrith Posting in a barely-disguised Dramiel whine thread.
Honestly, it's not the case. It's just that reds in Dramiels roam a tad too freely, and I simply can't catch them.
I want a solution, and I merely commented that the Dramiel's functionality is annoying. But I do not complain about the ship itself or its current state.
I can always train for one myself, 8 days for Minmatar Frigate 0 to V, and another three or four for its turrets
|
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 13:31:00 -
[16]
The dramiel is a very expensive ship and people usually spend a good deal on the mods. In exchange they get a ship that is the fastest in the game.
Its hard to catch a faster ship with a slower ship. In fact (with best piloting by both pilots) you can't "catch" a faster ship with a slower ship. But you may be able to hold a faster ship with a slower ship. You will need to do things like add 2 webs and scram.
You can also hold the dram and likely kill it with 2 rifters. If 1)you stay together and 2)it will engage you.
The fastest ship in the whether it be the dram or some other ship will almost alway have the option to engage or not.
-Cearain
Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906 |
Dek Kato
Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 15:18:00 -
[17]
Best Dramiel kill/loss I've ever seen? Exequor. Fit it with small projectiles, fill the mids with a scram and webs. Go "rat" in a belt all clumsy and nooblike and they will come. Just watch out for anything non-frigate of course.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Thread locked due to troll convention.
|
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 15:31:00 -
[18]
Problem is simple:
Ships that can catch a Dramiel generally can't kill it. Ships that can kill a Dramiel generally can't catch it. Ships that might be able to catch and kill a Dramiel pilot are so few and far between, that a Dramiel can see it coming from a mile away, and thus won't engage.
Which means the best way to catch a Dramiel and hope to kill it is use at least two ships. One bait ship, one kill ship.
So, what makes a good bait ship?
A. It doesn't look like a good bait ship B. It needs to hold the Dramiel and reduce its speed sufficiently for support to warp in and kill it. C. It needs to survive long enough to enable B.
This means (considering common Dramiel fits), any fast (usually frig sized)bait ship needs at least a scram, AB and web, while slower bait ships need at least scram, AB and two webs. Additionally, they need to convince the Dramiel pilot to come within scram range. This means they need to be able to hit the Dramiel outside of scram range with guns hard enough to threaten it, or be able to tank a Dramiel kiting outside of scram range or have the Dramiel pilot think they can kill it inside of scram range before support can warp in and lock. Also, the bait ship shouldn't be able to tank the Dramiel indefinitely inside of scram range (otherwise it won't engage anyway) and shouldn't be able to kill a Dramiel.
So you need at least two pilots, and a convincing and specifically anti-Dramiel fitted bait ship. This is a lot of effort, and seriously hampers your ability to do other kinds of PvP. Also, the trick usually works only once, after that the Dramiel pilot is usually wary of your bait ship and you need to try something else.
Or the simple solution: get a Dramiel yourself, hope he will engage other Dramiels and hope you are the better pilot/have the better fit. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Omara Otawan
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 16:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 01/07/2010 16:41:33
Bring a rifter with AB/scram/web and a plate, you'll be able to dictate range against the popular dualprop dramiel fits and hold long enough for your mates to arrive.
If he has one of those fail kiting fits just kill off drones and bring in your mates anyway, its likely he's gonna get away but at least you reduced his already horrible killing effectivity even more before he can restock drones and you didnt die either.
|
Kazumii Shimizu
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 16:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: foksieloy Zealot (or a ship which can perform a similar locking/tracking/alpha). If he screws up his transversal for just a few moments, *POP*.
U serious?? If he doesn't screw up his transversal and gets close, you die. No drones makes me think this isn't a good ship to Dram hunt in....
|
|
Elton Murrow
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 16:57:00 -
[21]
Confirming a Rifter can hold most Drams long enough to chew them up.
That said, most Dram pilots i'm aware of won't screw with a rifter unless the pilot looks like a rookie.
|
Messoroz
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 17:04:00 -
[22]
13 km/s fleet stabber with 100mn mwd that is cap stable if you want to overdo it.
|
Durnin Stormbrow
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 17:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 01/07/2010 17:41:03
Originally by: Merdaneth Problem is simple: Ships that can catch a Dramiel generally can't kill it. Ships that can kill a Dramiel generally can't catch it. Ships that might be able to catch and kill a Dramiel pilot are so few and far between, that a Dramiel can see it coming from a mile away, and thus won't engage.
^This.
Originally by: Cearain The dramiel is a very expensive ship and people usually spend a good deal on the mods. In exchange they get a ship that is the fastest in the game.
Its hard to catch a faster ship with a slower ship. In fact (with best piloting by both pilots) you can't "catch" a faster ship with a slower ship.
^ And this.
The Dram pilot has already paid a load of good isk for his PvP ship, so you know he's not afraid to put isk on the line; assume his mods are top of the line too. If your talking about low-sec where a good pilot will almost always get the implants out safe, then you can expect those are top notch as well. A complex fit Dram, with full Snakes & Zor's Custom implants can get >3200m/s on AB alone.
Beyond all of that the Dram has 4 mids. That allows it to run dual prop and still fit both a web and a scram. Scram him & he'll switch to AB. If your frig can get a T2 web/scram on him, his faction web/scram already has you. In other words, you can't play the Dramiel's game with a T1/T2 frig & actually expect to win. You might get lucky, but odds are you'll die or he'll choose to disengage when it suits him.
Don't play his game.
Put a well tanked Hawk in the belts ratting with standard launchers, while an Arazu & a Rapier sit nearby. When a Dramiel shows up, Arazu points & closes to scram, Rapier double webs, both Recons set out their light drones, Hawk pours precision lights into the nearly stationary Dramiel. Even if you fail to get the kill, you can bet he damned near wet himself when he realized how much trouble he was in.
Edit: Not a whine post. In every niche, something will end up being the best. When it comes to fast frigs, it's the Dramiel.
|
Rebecca Aventine
|
Posted - 2010.07.01 17:50:00 -
[24]
Bait Celestis. 1x Warp Scrambler, 3x Statis Webifier, 8x HobgoblinII.
|
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 08:31:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Raimo on 02/07/2010 08:31:36
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
Put a well tanked Hawk in the belts ratting with standard launchers, while an Arazu & a Rapier sit nearby. When a Dramiel shows up, Arazu points & closes to scram, Rapier double webs, both Recons set out their light drones, Hawk pours precision lights into the nearly stationary Dramiel. Even if you fail to get the kill, you can bet he damned near wet himself when he realized how much trouble he was in.
Jesus. You really don't need 2 T2 cruisers and a T2 frig to kill a Dram ---------- www.eve-arena.com
|
Ulwithy Arillious
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 10:03:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ulwithy Arillious on 02/07/2010 10:06:54
Originally by: Merdaneth Ships that can catch a Dramiel generally can't kill it. Ships that can kill a Dramiel generally can't catch it. Ships that might be able to catch and kill a Dramiel pilot are so few and far between, that a Dramiel can see it coming from a mile away, and thus won't engage.
Otherwise known as Vagabond syndrome. (well, at least it was back when Vaga's were the thing)
Originally by: Raimo Edited by: Raimo on 02/07/2010 08:31:36
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
Put a well tanked Hawk in the belts ratting with standard launchers, while an Arazu & a Rapier sit nearby. When a Dramiel shows up, Arazu points & closes to scram, Rapier double webs, both Recons set out their light drones, Hawk pours precision lights into the nearly stationary Dramiel. Even if you fail to get the kill, you can bet he damned near wet himself when he realized how much trouble he was in.
Jesus. You really don't need 2 T2 cruisers and a T2 frig to kill a Dram
Of course not, but it's a fairly reliable method. The Dramiel's main strength is it's ability to GTFO, and it is very good at doing just that. Take that away and it's over.
|
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 10:30:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Raimo
Jesus. You really don't need 2 T2 cruisers and a T2 frig to kill a Dram
Depends on pilot skill. I often try just that in my Crusader, attack and try to kill the bait/tackler and then get out before the cloaked reinforcements get a point/web on me. If I can sometimes do it in a non-faction fitted non-implant clone Crusader, you bet I can do it better in a faction-fitted Dramiel with speed implants. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 11:10:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Raimo on 02/07/2010 11:11:28
Originally by: Merdaneth
Depends on pilot skill. I often try just that in my Crusader, attack and try to kill the bait/tackler and then get out before the cloaked reinforcements get a point/web on me. If I can sometimes do it in a non-faction fitted non-implant clone Crusader, you bet I can do it better in a faction-fitted Dramiel with speed implants.
Yeah but we're getting into apples and oranges - for example, a competent and properly fitted Claw or a NOS Comet/ Ranis (or Dram ofc) can easily kill most Vagas given a bit of time, a gang of 5 ******ed T2 frigs will die to that same Vaga just as easily. You don't need 3 competent T2 ships to kill one competent Dramiel was all I was saying... ---------- www.eve-arena.com
|
Ulwithy Arillious
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 11:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Raimo Depends on pilot skill. I often try just that in my Crusader, attack and try to kill the bait/tackler and then get out before the cloaked reinforcements get a point/web on me.
Bait/tackle like, say, a weak defenseless Stiletto?
|
Zofe Stormcaller
Shadow Company Legiunea ROmana
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 12:31:00 -
[30]
On a slightly related topic, If the dramiel was getting away and I wanted to hit it at range, I was thinking of something along the lines of a target painter bellicose with warrior IIs but would projectiles or missiles be better? I do not know how well Dramiels evade missiles as they will likely be quite a bit faster than the explosion velocity of the missiles, but I do not believe even light arties would easily be able to track them.
|
|
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 12:44:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Raimo Yeah but we're getting into apples and oranges - for example, a competent and properly fitted Claw or a NOS Comet/ Ranis (or Dram ofc) can easily kill most Vagas given a bit of time, a gang of 5 ******ed T2 frigs will die to that same Vaga just as easily. You don't need 3 competent T2 ships to kill one competent Dramiel was all I was saying...
Agreed. You need two ships, with pilots of equal or better competence. And you don't need cloaking Recons as second ship to back up the bait, you can do it with a lot of ships. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 12:47:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Raimo Yeah but we're getting into apples and oranges - for example, a competent and properly fitted Claw or a NOS Comet/ Ranis (or Dram ofc) can easily kill most Vagas given a bit of time, a gang of 5 ******ed T2 frigs will die to that same Vaga just as easily. You don't need 3 competent T2 ships to kill one competent Dramiel was all I was saying...
Agreed. You need two ships, with pilots of equal or better competence. And you don't need cloaking Recons as second ship to back up the bait, you can do it with a lot of ships.
Wrong, try again. ---------- www.eve-arena.com
|
Aralieus
Amarr The Inf1dels En Garde
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:20:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Kazumii Shimizu
Originally by: foksieloy Zealot (or a ship which can perform a similar locking/tracking/alpha). If he screws up his transversal for just a few moments, *POP*.
U serious?? If he doesn't screw up his transversal and gets close, you die. No drones makes me think this isn't a good ship to Dram hunt in....
If you can't tank a dram in a Zealot, your doing something wrong!
Fortune favors the bold!!!
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken-Tyler Durden |
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:58:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Merdaneth
Wrong, try again.
I would appreciate you being a bit more constructive. This is just trolling. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 15:59:00 -
[35]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 02/07/2010 16:00:38 Buy a daredevil.
Bait Celestis works too, but they have to get within web range.
|
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.07.02 17:27:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Raimo on 02/07/2010 17:29:10
Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Raimo
Wrong, try again.
I would appreciate you being a bit more constructive. This is just trolling.
I tend to use a Dramiel of my own, haven't lost a single Dram 1v1 IIRC so maybe I'm biased though... Daredevil does work too though I've killed some in my Dram so I dunno. From bigger things a solo Rapier shouldn't have problems though all of these are avoided as a priority by many decent solo Dramiels.
To answer the OP I'd say stick out of the Ares on this (You will die and the Dram will escape unless you blob him with tons of cloakers etc, an Ares cannot kite a Dram really) and indeed, try to lure him to your bait Celestis. ---------- www.eve-arena.com
|
Louis DelaBlanche
The Anonna Mouse Commune
|
Posted - 2010.07.03 00:53:00 -
[37]
You don't have to worry about locking a dramiel. It's the not dying to it part tacklers seem to struggle with. Fortunately, it being a fotm ship means plenty of ppl flying them think the ship flies itself, so you may well get lucky. Would suggest taranis over ares, though.
_________________ Space is reserved _________________ |
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.07.04 08:30:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 04/07/2010 08:34:30
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Clytamnestra
Originally by: Marko Riva over tanked bait ship with scram and 2 webs, warp in sniper hacs at range, hope to pop him before he buggers off.
Honestly, this is probably your best tactic. The issue here is that even with two webs, unless you're in a ship with bonuses to web speed reduction, he can still disengage from most fights.
Double troll! 8/10
Quite a lot of stuff can kill a Dramiel if you can bait him to engage. I prefer a Dram of my own btw.
How am I trolling, any dramiel pilot losing in a 1v1 is incompetent. Due to speed, and all the other variables that make it it very good, you can engage/disengage at will and the few single targets that MIGHT cause an issue you simply avoid.
In fact, all you've done so far is going "lol not true", "haha you don't know crap" and "omg you don't need all those ships/preparation". Without being constructive ever. Which you then follow up by "I haven't lost a single Dram 1v1 IIRC so maybe I'm biased though... ". So which is it?
The thing is that unless you fit your ship to specifically kill dramiels (possibly even by using a very weird fit on ship you normally wouldn't expect to be a problem for a dramiel), or use a droneboat with webs/neuts (which a dramiel would never engage) it's not going to happen. But that kinda reeks of "pistols at dawn, 2 men enter one man leaves" which isn't exactly PVP.
Originally by: Merdaneth Problem is simple:
Ships that can catch a Dramiel generally can't kill it. Ships that can kill a Dramiel generally can't catch it. Ships that might be able to catch and kill a Dramiel pilot are so few and far between, that a Dramiel can see it coming from a mile away, and thus won't engage.
Yup.
----------- Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
Raimo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
|
Posted - 2010.07.04 09:02:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: Raimo
Originally by: Clytamnestra
Originally by: Marko Riva over tanked bait ship with scram and 2 webs, warp in sniper hacs at range, hope to pop him before he buggers off.
Honestly, this is probably your best tactic. The issue here is that even with two webs, unless you're in a ship with bonuses to web speed reduction, he can still disengage from most fights.
Double troll! 8/10
Quite a lot of stuff can kill a Dramiel if you can bait him to engage. I prefer a Dram of my own btw.
How am I trolling, any dramiel pilot losing in a 1v1 is incompetent. Due to speed, and all the other variables that make it it very good, you can engage/disengage at will and the few single targets that MIGHT cause an issue you simply avoid.
Wrong, and you sound like you never flew a Dramiel tbh. Especially in nullsec without pirate implants it is killable by a lot of stuff 1v1 (I lose tons of them but get ok kills as well, I like to think I'm not very incompetent but I value a decent shot at getting a kill(s) much more than my ship :P )
The trolling bit was the sniper HACs btw, the bait Celestis was already suggested, it will do it solo with a T2 fit. (I won't post it here because I might very probably fall for it myself, :D OP can Evemail me for the fit if they really want to try it in their specific case)
Quote:
In fact, all you've done so far is going "lol not true", "haha you don't know crap" and "omg you don't need all those ships/preparation". Without being constructive ever. Which you then follow up by "I haven't lost a single Dram 1v1 IIRC so maybe I'm biased though... ". So which is it?
I said (or meant at least) that I haven't lost a Dramiel v Dramiel fight(won a few against several hostile Drams solo as well IIRC), so I cannot be that terrible and still I've lost 10's of Dramiels... Yeah, they must be unkillable.
Quote:
The thing is that unless you fit your ship to specifically kill dramiels (possibly even by using a very weird fit on ship you normally wouldn't expect to be a problem for a dramiel), or use a droneboat with webs/neuts (which a dramiel would never engage) it's not going to happen. But that kinda reeks of "pistols at dawn, 2 men enter one man leaves" which isn't exactly PVP.
Like I said, solo bait Celestis will do it in a pinch utilizing the OP's skillset, other not so obvious ships exist besides the obvious neut droneboats, Recons and other faction frigates many Dram pilots will avoid. (Hell, I just lost a Dram last night to a Rapier, I took a huge calculated risk of depending on a failfit and lost the gamble this time :D ) ---------- www.eve-arena.com
|
Agent Unknown
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.07.04 13:28:00 -
[40]
Rapier with dual faction webs. Frigates don't like it when they can be webbed from 50km away. I forgot to mention that you are in fact reading something that is called a signature. |
|
Lorn Raffa
|
Posted - 2010.07.04 17:08:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Lorn Raffa on 04/07/2010 17:15:55 This is purely speculative, but you might be able to hold him with a Helios, although that's probably dependent on your skill. Assuming you're fighting against a dual prop (i.e. not a web+ab fit), you'll be able to dictate range within scram range. Optimal script on tracking disruptor will keep his non-barrage ammo from hitting you. *If* you're able to keep at range, then only drones will be his damage (barring barrage ammo), which you might be able to shoot down with blasters.
It has 4k ehp, which isn't bad, but I don't know if it will be enough. If you get too close during the initial fight, you might take a decent amount of damage, so its definitely risky, although given the difference in price, it might be worth it. Also, this can have some cap issues if you run everything, so don't run the guns the whole time / keep a close eye on cap (if you really are just trying to hold the dram), or perhaps switch out the rigs for more cap related ones.
Still, it should at least be able to make a dram pilot engage you, since you're just a lowly cov-ops.
[Helios, blasters] Damage Control II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Optimal Range Disruption
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hobgoblin II x1
Also, beware the dram pilots that hunt in pairs/packs.
all comparisons were made with lvl 5 chars, no implants
edit: You should be able to slap on autocannons and a 200mm plate instead of blasters and the mfs. You'd get more ehp, and be cap stable. You'd still be faster in side scram/web range, but you do slow down. |
LonTas 5
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2010.07.04 18:04:00 -
[42]
You are doing it wrong. Of course, this is just a troll response and im clearly being annoying. So here mah troll.
[Blackbird, Dramiel is dead] Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II
Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II Target Painter II Target Painter II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Medium Nosferatu II Medium Nosferatu II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
It should just sit there while you wait for your buddies. Range should be below 10km. Have fun. LONTAS 5 |
Lancress
|
Posted - 2010.07.04 18:38:00 -
[43]
Drake.
In addition it's podloads of fun to fly twisted Drake fit.
|
equincu ocha
Monsters
|
Posted - 2010.07.04 19:13:00 -
[44]
Ok, it seems that most of you are in agreement that there are plenty of ships that can kill a dramiel if you could just get a scram and web on one (slow it down), also there are a few suggestions on strange ship setups and multi ships bait plans to catch said dramiel (not even gonna get into what i think about all that)
Have any of you even thought about the environment you are fighting in, and how to pilot your own ship in it. Dramiel pilots are just like all the other pilots out there, some are good pilots, but most are normal (point/orbit/shoot) pilots that think they are untouchable in there faster than your ship ship
I could tell you how to move the fight to where the smarter pilot has the advantage (i'm sure at least someone here already know how), but that wouldn't be fun now would it. SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM |
danyalsun
The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2010.07.05 03:16:00 -
[45]
I've seen Raimo in action, usually in the tribute pipe (m-o camping anyone?) and can say that he knows what he's doing in a dramiel.
|
Ophelia Ursus
|
Posted - 2010.07.06 08:55:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Ophelia Ursus on 06/07/2010 09:09:26 If you want to kill a competent dram with another frigate, you have a few options. A daredevil has reasonable odds against most dram variants. Disregarding that, you have:
* Dualprop/MSE/scram dramiel - any AB-scram-web frigate with reasonable tank/gank will work, although you're reliant on the dram voluntarily entering scram range. Jag, rail comet, and rail taranis are the best options; the Harpy and Ishkur could also work in theory, although they're a bit uncomfortably slow.
* MWD/disruptor falloff dramiel - very tough to kill. In principle, any AF and quite a few inties would do if you could land the scram; in practice, that's not likely to happen. Bring a Keres and chase him off, maybe. Alternatively, kill his drones and wait for backup or boredom to drive him off. A Sentinel would also probably suffice to chase him off.
* Dualprop armor dram - possibly the single most annoying ship in the game. A Keres *may* be able to hold him without dying, but it'd be a touch-and-go affair.
That said, all of the above assumes the dram pilot is well-skilled and knows what he's doing. Many (most?) are not and do not.
edit: if all you want to do is catch and hold him, use a harmless-looking bait cruiser with a big buffer, afterburner, and dual webs + scrambler. |
Merdaneth
Amarr Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.06 09:35:00 -
[47]
Originally by: equincu ocha
Have any of you even thought about the environment you are fighting in, and how to pilot your own ship in it. Dramiel pilots are just like all the other pilots out there, some are good pilots, but most are normal (point/orbit/shoot) pilots that think they are untouchable in there faster than your ship ship.
The main problem remains, that even most 'normal' Dramiel pilots have one single instinctive reaction when shields start dropping low: that is overheat the AB (or MWD if applicable) and run. The combination of the extreme speed on the overheated AB (or MWD) coupled with the still reasonable amount of EHP left after shields drop to 20% or so means you need to have a tactic that keeps the Dramiel within your range, or else it will be out of range in a few seconds.
The original poster was an inexperienced pilot trying to go up against an experienced Dramiel pilot. He was looking for an answer how to be able to tackle and kill an experienced Dramiel pilots using several inexperienced pilots. The general answer was that is would be very hard to do so, and would require several specifically set up ships. |
Darkth Pinkhelmut
|
Posted - 2010.07.06 14:40:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lancress Drake.
In addition it's podloads of fun to fly twisted Drake fit.
Like this drake? Linkage
|
Lancress
|
Posted - 2010.07.06 15:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Darkth Pinkhelmut
Originally by: Lancress Drake.
In addition it's podloads of fun to fly twisted Drake fit.
Like this drake? Linkage
Exactly. Best weapon against a veteran pilot is doing something totally unexpected.
|
Darkth Pinkhelmut
|
Posted - 2010.07.07 10:13:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Lancress
Originally by: Darkth Pinkhelmut
Originally by: Lancress Drake.
In addition it's podloads of fun to fly twisted Drake fit.
Like this drake? Linkage
Exactly. Best weapon against a veteran pilot is doing something totally unexpected.
I agree, but i do imagine the people who killed you lolled at the setup.
but as a drake is usually one of the last on the list to get primaried in a fleet battle, a setup like that will often last long enough to if not decide the fight, but make a decent contribution.
Top marks for not just using one of the usually million and one setups found on battleclinic. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |