Originally by: Razzor Death

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I would like to personally thank the GM that answered Ants stuck petition by sending him 50 jumps away.

o7 o7 o7 o7 o7

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Originally by: arjun

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roll back to red moon rising or something

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Originally by: arjun

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roll back to red moon rising or something

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Originally by: Vladic Ka

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Originally by: arjun

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roll back to red moon rising or something

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RMR was da best!

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Originally by: Vladic Ka

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Originally by: arjun

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roll back to red moon rising or something

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RMR was da best!

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Originally by: Sebesto

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Originally by: Razzor Death

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I would like to personally thank the GM that answered Ants stuck petition by sending him 50 jumps away.

o7 o7 o7 o7 o7

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Well he isn't stuck anymore is he? :P

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Originally by: RogueAnt

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I was moved by a GM to empire WTF??

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Originally by: Raneru

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The system maxed out at about 80 people and there was 2 minute module/movement lag.

Seriously, the servers performed better in 2005.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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Originally by: Koronos

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CCP you are terrible. Get a ****ing clue. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. You are going to lose 10x the memberbase that you are going to gain from pi and dust and everything else if you don't figure this out. And it CAN'T be that hard. Two major patches ago fleet fights actually worked if you had your bracket settings right. You broke it and you keep breaking it. Two major patches and it is ONLY GETTING WORSE. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS. You're doing it wrong. There should really be NOTHING on the plate at any level except finding what you broke so that we can actually play this beautiful game again in the way it was intended. And you can do it, because YOU ALREADY DID.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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Originally by: Koronos

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CCP you are terrible. Get a ****ing clue. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS. You are going to lose 10x the memberbase that you are going to gain from pi and dust and everything else if you don't figure this out. And it CAN'T be that hard. Two major patches ago fleet fights actually worked if you had your bracket settings right. You broke it and you keep breaking it. Two major patches and it is ONLY GETTING WORSE. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS. You're doing it wrong. There should really be NOTHING on the plate at any level except finding what you broke so that we can actually play this beautiful game again in the way it was intended. And you can do it, because YOU ALREADY DID.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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Originally by: Thunder1971

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You are lying...our logs show nothing!!

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Quote:

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<Campion> One thing about the lag: we have purposely shut down some server nodes and forced players onto other nodes in order to test the maximum number of players a single node (or group of nodes) can handle
<Campion> that's one of the reasons for the intermittent lag during the beta test
<Campion> and we've actually had upwards of 1000 players onto a single CPU. So it's quite an accomplishment
<Campion> Also, we run full log servers, which causes server overhead... those log servers won't be running at release

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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Seriously they don't care what you write in their forums, if you want them to take things seriously go post in a public forum people use to decide which mmo they play.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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Originally by: Vladic Ka

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Originally by: arjun

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roll back to red moon rising or something

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RMR was da best!

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Originally by: Sidzo

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Z-RFE3 some hidra ppl shooting on our HUB ( around 40 ppl ) and no chance to get there with fleet!

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Originally by: Zuquar Bonaparte

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Edited by: Zuquar Bonaparte on 05/07/2010 17:13:17

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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nice try, but that just doesnt cut it, on the hole node there was a fight going on between aprox 300 ppl, apart from that then only other real movement in the hole area was from the hydra/co2/uk gangs which held a total of not over 150 ppl in 3 difrent gangs.
if the node cant hold to this kind of load then surely something is very wrong with the game and how ccp,s prioritys are set.

as a csm wannabe you should maybe support your voters abit more instead of making up excuses for ccp and sucking up to them, they allrdy are experts in excuses, and dont really need your help in that area.

p.s at what expected number of players should we request a rf of node btw? i thought it was only when u had lrg scale fights planned and not because u wanna go roaming with 20-30 ppl?

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Originally by: Caliwyrm O'Libr

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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If you're right, then CCP only need to throw more nodes at the problem. If currently the node:system ration is 1:10 then make it 1:7.

However, whether CCP wants to admit it or not, the problem is likely due to something with the Fleet Finder mechanic. It has been widely accepted that fleet fights were managable before FF was added and horrendous afterwards.

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Originally by: Lord TGR

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

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That logic holds up if what we're looking at is memory or disk resources, which are very much finite, i.e. the difference between having spare resources or not is a harsh line. Usually involving crashing etc.

When it comes to CPU, however, that line becomes much more blurred, and I strongly doubt you'll go from "yay no problem changing system" to "oh my god I can't load system halp halp" just because you use slightly more CPU on that node. To go to halp halp-mode, you would have to use vastly more CPU during the migration from one node/system to another, and if that's the case then we're not looking at the proverbial straw, but the proverbial ton of bricks, and that changed radically in Dominion (and sounds like it got worse in Tyrannis).

However, I'm more inclined to think it's some sort of timing or threading problem, but it's damn hard to do anything other than random guessing as long as CCP is keeping quiet about it, which makes the whole deal vastly more annoying than if they had been forthcoming with information.

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Originally by: Meno Theaetetus

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Seriously they don't care what you write in their forums, if you want them to take things seriously go post in a public forum people use to decide which mmo they play.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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Agreed. It's more complex than just "CPU", it's resources in general (though they're CPU bound in this instance), though things tend to degrade very fast for everyone when timing/locking mechanisms can't happen in reasonable amount of time. While in Iceland, the CSM has had the opportunity of getting more information from CCP as to the cause of the lag but without knowledge of the system architecture, I doubt we can be of any assistance to find an architectural reason to the whole thing. However we can assist with the symptoms, ie, lag occurs when we do this, it occurs this way, I get this message/freeze/etc.

While it's nearly impossible for them to give us the information we'd need to help in solving the problem from that end, we encouraged CCP to provide us with information as to the challenges they face in trying to find a solution.

All I can say is that it's one tough problem that they're working on, and the people trying to solve it are not idiots...

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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Originally by: Lord TGR

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

---

That logic holds up if what we're looking at is memory or disk resources, which are very much finite, i.e. the difference between having spare resources or not is a harsh line. Usually involving crashing etc.

When it comes to CPU, however, that line becomes much more blurred, and I strongly doubt you'll go from "yay no problem changing system" to "oh my god I can't load system halp halp" just because you use slightly more CPU on that node. To go to halp halp-mode, you would have to use vastly more CPU during the migration from one node/system to another, and if that's the case then we're not looking at the proverbial straw, but the proverbial ton of bricks, and that changed radically in Dominion (and sounds like it got worse in Tyrannis).

However, I'm more inclined to think it's some sort of timing or threading problem, but it's damn hard to do anything other than random guessing as long as CCP is keeping quiet about it, which makes the whole deal vastly more annoying than if they had been forthcoming with information.

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Agreed. It's more complex than just "CPU", it's resources in general (though they're CPU bound in this instance), though things tend to degrade very fast for everyone when timing/locking mechanisms can't happen in reasonable amount of time. While in Iceland, the CSM has had the opportunity of getting more information from CCP as to the cause of the lag but without knowledge of the system architecture, I doubt we can be of any assistance to find an architectural reason to the whole thing. However we can assist with the symptoms, ie, lag occurs when we do this, it occurs this way, I get this message/freeze/etc.

While it's nearly impossible for them to give us the information we'd need to help in solving the problem from that end, we encouraged CCP to provide us with information as to the challenges they face in trying to find a solution.

All I can say is that it's one tough problem that they're working on, and the people trying to solve it are not idiots...

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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Originally by: Lord TGR

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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If a node supporting 10 solar system is at 95% capacity, everything will look fine and dandy for all those systems.

Your extra 40 people are most likely the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

It has nothing to do with servers not being able to sustain fights of 40 people, it has everything to do with you being unlucky with the load distribution and the node not being reinforced.

---

That logic holds up if what we're looking at is memory or disk resources, which are very much finite, i.e. the difference between having spare resources or not is a harsh line. Usually involving crashing etc.

When it comes to CPU, however, that line becomes much more blurred, and I strongly doubt you'll go from "yay no problem changing system" to "oh my god I can't load system halp halp" just because you use slightly more CPU on that node. To go to halp halp-mode, you would have to use vastly more CPU during the migration from one node/system to another, and if that's the case then we're not looking at the proverbial straw, but the proverbial ton of bricks, and that changed radically in Dominion (and sounds like it got worse in Tyrannis).

However, I'm more inclined to think it's some sort of timing or threading problem, but it's damn hard to do anything other than random guessing as long as CCP is keeping quiet about it, which makes the whole deal vastly more annoying than if they had been forthcoming with information.

---

Agreed. It's more complex than just "CPU", it's resources in general (though they're CPU bound in this instance), though things tend to degrade very fast for everyone when timing/locking mechanisms can't happen in reasonable amount of time. While in Iceland, the CSM has had the opportunity of getting more information from CCP as to the cause of the lag but without knowledge of the system architecture, I doubt we can be of any assistance to find an architectural reason to the whole thing. However we can assist with the symptoms, ie, lag occurs when we do this, it occurs this way, I get this message/freeze/etc.

While it's nearly impossible for them to give us the information we'd need to help in solving the problem from that end, we encouraged CCP to provide us with information as to the challenges they face in trying to find a solution.

All I can say is that it's one tough problem that they're working on, and the people trying to solve it are not idiots...

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Originally by: Lord TGR

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Edited by: Lord TGR on 07/07/2010 08:43:09
I'm not implying they're idiots, but whatever change they did in Dominion was so severe that whatever caused that change has to be seriously game-breaking to be allowed to live for as long as it has. We're talking about more than 6 months, after all, and they shouldn't have that much of a problem just running a diff on whatever code deals with session change (which is where I've seen the most problems, I'm not sure if it involves moving the session between 2 physical machines or just between two solar system, but I've seen this lag people the **** out with far fewer than 200 in local, and I've also seen it work just fine with 300+ in local.), and do a bit of profiling to see which change caused the massive unplayability that we're seeing now.

I'm pretty sure I'm right when I say that this should seriously be the main focus for CCP, as it's the one thing that's putting the most dampener on 0.0 these days. Just to iterate how bad it is, hisec routinely have had systems that have more kills than any 0.0 system. I looked around a week ago, and I saw 4+ 0.9 systems with 225 or more kills, and I saw ONE 0.0 system with more than 50 kills the last 24 hours. Today, most of 0.0 still has less than 50 kills, with a few actually going above 100 (M-OEEB for example), while the same 0.9 systems seem to still keep going with 200+. Hell, Arnon has 457 kills the last 24 hours. Next to nothing is going on in 0.0.

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Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel

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Being a technical person myself, I've quizzed the people working on the problem to try and understand the nature of it, and I can't fault their reasoning or efforts. Also, with problems of that nature, throwing more bodies at the problem is not going to solve the problem faster, as it requires people with specific knowledge to be able to meaningfully participate in figuring what's going on. From what I've seen, people who should be working on it are working on it.

The one thing players can assist with is join the mass tests being run on SiSi, they're apparently way more useful than I'd have thought.

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Quote:

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im not that technical a person, but im sure that 1 thing that will never help solve the problem is that ccp keeps making expansions ontop of problems that exist and arn't solved yet, maybe csm,s should tell ccp to try slow down abit and fix the game before expanding the game, so customers could get what they pay for.

Btw , im not paying my monthly subscription to be ccp,s paying testmonkey, maybe if ccp promised they wouldnt add to the game until they fix old problems , then i may se a reason to help out, but with the forecast that they will add new problems to the game b4 they ever get to fix the old then i can easy understand why its hard to get ppl to help mass test.

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