Originally by: Crawford McKinley

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ye i'm gonna go ahead and say this was because she made the comment about CCP's position regarding them doing jack **** about fixing the game as shinies are more important to them.

guess CCP don't read SHC forums or anywhere else as mynxee and other CSM's said exactly the same thing lol

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Originally by: Ghoest

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Im not defending Ank----- at all.

But this does draw attention to how unrepresentaive the CSM are of the player base.

The organized minority of serious corps/alliances dominate the CSM pool but they are actually a minority of totalplayers.
Most players play a game specifically avoiding large organizations that remind them of real life jobs.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: Sokratesz

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Originally by: Plumpy McPudding

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Empire simply has to vote for a better candidate next time.

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There are plenty of good 'carebear' candidates, you just need to look a bit further than the first forcefed propaganda video.

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I should apply for CSM as a carebear candidate.

-Liang

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Anyone else get the feeling that Delilah Wild is Ankh?

-Liang

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Originally by: Thrasymachus TheSophist

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Originally by: FinnAgain Zero

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Lark also resigned and admitted what he did. Ank is denying it and has threatened legal action before.
When dealing with such people, it's not in CCP's best interest to share any more info than necessary.

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"Threatened legal action" - if she has in fact threatened - is a strawman. What are her damages? She has no lawsuit - her reptuation is **** to start with.

As for what is in "CCP's best interest" - I strongly disagree that it is in CCP's best interest to let this sit as is. Just read this thread. CCP's best interest is to get 3rd party legitimization of their actions. If they can't publically disclose all the details (which is a reasonable hypothesis), then at a minimum they should disclose it all the the CSM so that they can confirm the propriety of CCP's actions. After all, the CSM already *knows* whatever super-secret info is at issue (since Ankh learned it as a CSM).

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Originally by: Miyamoto Isoruku

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Look, no one, not even Finn, opposed Ankh's candidacy more than I did. That said I simply do not trust CCP here, especially not after T20. For CCP to sack a CSM member not long after she made a very vocal blog post excoriating them simply does not seem kosher. Yes, Finn is correct that they have absolutely every right to do so, but then I have every right to give a .44 Magnum a blowjob--it doesn't mean that I should. CCP should give the players at least SOME kind of further information if at all possible, for their own PR as much as anything else.

Frankly, at this point, I don't know which of them to trust less.

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Originally by: Clovermite

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Originally by: Malcanis

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CCP, CSM members and Ankh herself have all confirmed that this is connected with something that happened in a previous CSM, and is nothing to do with CSM5 (at least not directly)

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Links or it didn't happen.

All Ankh has said is that it wasn't the blog and that she doesn't agree with them. All CCP has said can be summed up as "She broke NDA. We don't want to tell you why." As for CSM members, I only count Sok as speaking for the legitimacy of the claim. The others have only commented on Ankh, or confirmed that the blog wasn't involved.

Personally, I'd like to see Mynxee comment on the matter. She's seemed to take a middle road on the ankh controversy in the past (both acknowledges that Ankh has issues, yet fairminded enough to recognize and respect the anti-ankh campaign).

Certainly, Ankh leaving the CSM is not that a huge loss.

BUT, the very fact that CSM was created in response to internal corporate dishonesty and favoritism from CCP employees DOES affect this matter. ESPECIALLY because CCP has, so far, given CSM the same treatment you give a group of touring kindergardners (Oh that's a great idea sweety! Now run along and play while the grown ups do real work. Here's a crown to make you feel special- smile for the cameras!).

While it is their official policy, and legal right, to stay quiet, it definitely does not do well for them PR wise.

All it takes is a simple "While serving under the term as CSM member, Ank divulged sensitive information to a third party." NDA agreements are quite purposefully left extremely broad, so it is very possible (especially considering CCP's track record) that they found a technicality to use to kick her out simply because they did not like her. If the "reason" is something she did x months/years ago, then that is just an asinine excuse to can her out of favoritism.

Keep the details - it's confidential, I totally understand the need to protect proprietary information. DO, however, point to a specific form of breach.

After all, this whole thing started when a certain unnamed spy uncovered questionable activity, and was banned for bringing it up to CCP in a petition as that was "breaking the EULA."

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Originally by: Dograzor

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Edited by: Dograzor on 08/07/2010 08:22:55

Originally by: Malcanis

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Personally, I'd like to see Mynxee comment on the matter. She's seemed to take a middle road on the ankh controversy in the past (both acknowledges that Ankh has issues, yet fairminded enough to recognize and respect the anti-ankh campaign).

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Linkage

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Originally by: Jacqueline Harrien

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Originally by: Higgs Foton

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I do not know her, but given she run for Dutch parliament for the pirate party makes a NDA violation very plausible. We all know the pirate party gives a rats behind about intelectual and copyright laws, so i wouldn't be suprised if she has breached the NDA because in her opinion it means nothing.

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As a member of the Pirate Party UK, I'd like to emphasise that this statement is factually incorrect -- we care an awful lot about copyright law, and think that copyright is a worthwhile concept, but we think that how it works needs to be modified a bit. I encourage people who want to find out more about the Pirate movement to check out our manifesto. Please sling your mud elsewhere.

Between reading CSM5 logs, spoongate, and now this, it seems to me that Ankh is a complete headcase. I'm slightly puzzled as to how PPNL ever thought she'd make a good politician.

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Originally by: Virtuozzo

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Originally by: Stefan11

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This is better than real life politics.

All we need is a sex scandal.

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What makes you think there has not been one already.

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Originally by: FinnAgain Zero

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Those who voted for her were not only wrong, they hilariously made sure that instead of a "hardcore carebear" that they wanted to elect, the person who actually fills that seat now is from Pandemic Legion.

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Originally by: Hairy Bum

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Originally by: FinnAgain Zero

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Whether they voted for them or not, the CSM are the one and only group of people who have the direct attention of CCP devs as part of the official development cycle and the one and only group of people who can give a unified representation of the playerbase's needs and desires wrt the development of the game to those devs.

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Quoting this for sheer comedic value.

CSM has nothing to do with the player base. CSM has nothing to do with providing a unifying representation of anyone beyond themselves and their own petty wants...

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Originally by: Hairy Bum

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Hairy Bum

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Originally by: FinnAgain Zero

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Whether they voted for them or not, the CSM are the one and only group of people who have the direct attention of CCP devs as part of the official development cycle and the one and only group of people who can give a unified representation of the playerbase's needs and desires wrt the development of the game to those devs.

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Quoting this for sheer comedic value.

CSM has nothing to do with the player base. CSM has nothing to do with providing a unifying representation of anyone beyond themselves and their own petty wants...

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So you keep saying. Can you cite some examples, or is this just PRC doing a rather feeble "everyone knows..." attempt to discredit them?

Specifically: which of the proposals voted in by this CSM are solely to do with their "petty wants"?

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Didn't realise that the Peoples Republic of China had any interest in Eve - you learn something new everyday .

But to the general crux of you post. Pretty much every one of them in this players humble opinion falls into the category of "petty wants". I know that in the 5 or so years I have played this game, I have never experienced any of the issues that keep getting dragged out as reasons behind what is being put forward as "issues" (lag aside). And I'm obviously not alone in this view.

Go through the Assembly Hall and all of the issues are lucky to get more than a smattering of people agreeing or even discussing it. Seriously - look at any issue and out of the 350,000 odd current account holders of the game, the "highest" level of concern elicits maybe 300 posts?? So if these are such "big" issues, why is it that only a very, very small - but apparently very very whiny - minority even bother to discuss it.

And if you want more proof - Trebor posts a request for people to go through the current outstanding list of CSM concerns - and in 3 days has gained only 70 indications of support, and not many more actually bothered to even respond!!

As an aside, the guy is to be admired for persistence, and with Mynxee - they seem to be the only two actually trying to make CSM work. Of this whole debacle, these two are the only rays of sunshine and the only ones truly committed to making this work. They are failing not through any fault of their own, but more pften than not its through the "support" of idiots like that FinnAgain person. Sometimes though you can't choose your friends.

But back on topic. Lag issue aside - as this is the only really serious concern at present - even CCP haven't really been that interested in the "list of complaints". If I was CCP, I would just take every CSM report ever written and just write "HTFU" next to each bullet point.

So why the lack of interest in the 320,000 players who ignore the whole CSM charade? The answer is that these "issues" are all just manufactured by a small group of fanbois keen to push their own agendas to show the world (ie, each other), just how big their epeens are. It is seriously laughable.

You keep asking for some sort of proof to validate claims that I and others make about why this is all just a pathetic waste of time. Well for proof you need look no further than at the current state of the whole CSM process, the current state of CCP promises to "fix" the issues that the CSM keep raising adnauseum and the complete lack of faith in the player base in the current system of "Stellar Management".

Face it, aside from a very few dedicated people, some very deranged and obsessive fanbois, and one or two people at CCP, the CSM could pack up tomorrow and 99% of the player base would be none the wiser as to it's passing.

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Originally by: Hairy Bum

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Edited by: Hairy Bum on 05/08/2010 23:42:02

Originally by: Malcanis

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So in short you cannot provide a single specific example to back up your accusation that the CSM promote their own petty wants? You could have just typed "No" instead of 300 words of flim-flam and fallacy

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But flim-flam and fallacy is the modus operandi in here, typing "No" would of been going against the grain of "debate" in here.

Anyway, why should any proof be provided to back up any assertions I make, it's not as if anyone else does, and it's not as if anyone else really cares (I know I for one don't and just do this for the comedy and laughs)

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Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto

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Originally by: Furb Killer

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Why would she be banned in game? Larkonis wasnt.

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Lark did get banned, it was just a 30-day.

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Originally by: Dariah Stardweller

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto

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Originally by: Furb Killer

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Why would she be banned in game? Larkonis wasnt.

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Lark did get banned, it was just a 30-day.

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If Ankh got also a 30 day then she's "free" today.

One is tempted to infer from her silence that the punishment was more rigorous...

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Or maybe she just thought: feck EVE and quit. It's prolly what I would do if in a similar situation.

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Originally by: Cromo Effect

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It is a real shame Ank was removed. She was the only one that stood up to CCP and was representing the player base. I guess they didn't like that and kicked her. Now we are left with a farce of a CSM. Nothing but yes men who are only there for personal gain.

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