| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Angel Wing.
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Posted - 2010.07.08 07:09:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Verone
Good luck to the Freecaptains, however be warned that there are some severely underhanded pilots within the 24th, and Core Impulse.
Underhanded?
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.08 10:46:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Math'ra Hiede
Underhanded, brutal and disgusting.
This is a description for alot of pilots in all militias, the 24 IC is no exception.
I was more trying to determine what a pirate organization like Veto considers underhanded.
Cloaking technology? Jammers? Spies?
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.09 09:25:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Just so everyone's in the know, what metrics will SF be using to decide if they've been successful?
Star Fraction was in the past unable to aid the Matari enough to even capture Kamela (their base of operations) in a whole year of operations and their military successes were mediocre at best. It has become obvious to me that Star Fraction does not care much about tactical victories, much less strategic victories. They care about exposure, visibility, reputation, fame, relevance and signficance.
Therefore I think the number of posts made by non-allies on the IGS about this campaign would be the best metric.
Considering the operation is named 'Impulse Control', usings posts on IGS as metric is kind of poetic as well.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.10 10:01:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Icarus3
Aside from what has "ALREADY" been stated Dame Death...
You being a former comrade, I must be honest with your here.
CHOSE YOUR SIDE!
It is time you discontinue playing these pathetic games, choose your allegiance and stick to it.
Mr. Icarus, if there is one ultimate expression of capsuleer freedom and anarchy in this universe, it would be Eliza.
What you are demanding of her has absolutely nothing to do with freedom of choice or anarchy. You are demanding of another that they should never change their mind after having chosen a certain path.
I cannot help but wonder that so-called 'anarchists' are just paying lip-service to the movement of political anarchy and their primary goal is merely to cause death and destruction. They keep reaching for traditionalist and imperialist principles.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Angel Wing.
|
Posted - 2010.07.11 08:47:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Patience Ospie. Wars are like fine liquor, they aren't made in a couple of days - these things take months to develop.
As is enlightenment. Freedom isn't granted in a couple of days - these things may take generations to develop.
But if you are not in any hurry to contribute to the freedom of others, I'm sure you'll understand my perspective.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2010.07.12 13:26:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
I guess I will never fathom the 24th Crusade and its counterfeit variation of Amarian "Loyalist".
It is simple. Have certain standings, and you will be accepted, no questions asked.
In fact, it is entirely possible for the 24th Crusade to accept Jericho Fraction if it wanted to join. Jericho Fraction could use this access to spy on channels, disrupt fleets and even declare war on other 24th corporations while within the 24th Crusade. Much like Jericho Fraction can base out of the 24th Crusade station in Kamela or even base itself out of EFA in Amarr.
As with many Concord-mediated rules, they are nearly incomprehensible to regular capsuleers. Similarly why Concord forbids alliances to share their planetary resources with non-alliance members, regardless if they want to or not. Similarly why it is legal to buy and sell slaves in the Republic, but not to transport them.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.08 22:45:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 08/08/2010 22:46:28
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
I can't see a problem with that and I think it is clear from the announcement that this was always our intention. Our goals are laid out in that announcement and we're not out to make claims based off statistics or metrics. This is a war where we are fighting a foe that needs to be fought, slaver crusaders, alongside allies we have forged strong and longstanding bonds with. It's as simple as that.
Fighting alongside one's allies is indeed a wise thing to do. Star Fraction has made not promises not to fight alongside their allies, and I cannot think of any reason why they shouldn't.
However, if one frequently fights among allies, then it is also wise to adjust one's own combat statistics for the involvement of those allies. If a T3 Cruiser worth some 750 million is destroyed by one SF frigate and 14 allied vessels, then perhaps SF should only count that for 1/15th of the total worth as their personal kill tally?
So, either make a small and fairly basic adjustment of your database, or stop using your artificially inflated statistics as a direct measurement of war progress. Yes, this is not directed at you Cosmopolite, but at Ms. Constantine. I much prefer her to write a campaign progress report than quibble over meaningless statistics.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.09 17:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
You're asking us to stop doing something we're not doing.
Be honest, for a change, and tell me who brought statistics or ISK into this thread in the first place.
To my knowledge is was ms. Constantine who first brought up ISK values while it was Core Impulse that first brought up ship losses.
If ms. Constantine agrees with me that such statistics are not relevant to the current war then I would suggest she stops using them to claim victory. If I suggested that ms. Constantine was solely responsible for starting this debate, then I was wrong.
However, to me it seems she wants to mention such to score cheap propaganda victories while you work to retain plausible deniability when the ship loss numbers or ISK war are not in your favor.
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
As stated before, the true measure will be the judgement of our allies.
It is funny that you say that since those that don't support you or are unhappy with you automatically get removed from your list of 'allies'. In fact, if Star Fraction alienates so many of her allies that only Revan Neferis is left it will have ensured a glorious victory.
I agree therefore that the operation it is aptly named. Ms. Constantine's control over her own impulses is vital to victory or defeat.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.09 17:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
misclicked again.
Impulse control my dear, impulse control....
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.09 18:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Second, Jade Constantine has not claimed victory using such figures, she merely indicated that by that measure we were ahead. But that doesn't amount to relying on that measure and we don't.
She didn't claim she was ahead, she claimed Star Fraction was winning. It means she sees being ahead on the ISK as a indicator of final victory. She linked ISK and winning, no one else did.
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
Third, it seems to me that you want to discount any statistics that even tend to indicate we are winning, while you will happily make use of statistics that indicate we are losing. That's up to you but I don't think it's convincing.
I think statistics and ISK can be used as indicators, but only if used appropriately and wisely. For example, I would probably never use ISK against ms. Constantine as an indicator of victory, knowing that any losses she suffers will likely not cause her to go bankrupt or start cutting back on ships.
If you are waging this war primarily to impress or placate your allies, then yes, their opinion can be a valid measurement of final victory. As she seems bent on using these, I merely suggested to change the way you calculate your statistics to come up with a more accurate picture.
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
We've consistently said we don't rely on statistics for determining success or failure in this war. It is also far too early in this war to begin trying to assess it. If others bring up such measures to try to make claims about us, though, we are entitled to answer them.
You have, and you have been consistent in this. In most things I read from Ms. Constantine, she seems to disagree with you and seems very much concerned with such figures.
Also, if the goal of this war truly is to impress your allies, I would suggest risking a bit more:
Originally by: Jade Constantine
The war is low intensity at present because neither side is prepared to take many risks
Not being prepared to take any risk on behalf of your allies doesn't sound like a winning strategy to me.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.10 16:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Consider this...Star Fraction makes a better ally than enemy, considering the situation that the Empires have found themselves in currently. This constant bickering and backbiting that is evident here is a waste of time and resources that can be used to a more constructive end.
Star Fraction makes a much better enemy than ally. Their attention galvanizes their opponents and stops infighting. Nothing better to focus the troops then a truly despicable enemy.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.10 22:34:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 10/08/2010 22:36:08
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Originally by: Merdaneth
Star Fraction makes a much better enemy than ally. Their attention galvanizes their opponents and stops infighting. Nothing better to focus the troops then a truly despicable enemy.
Your arrogance and self righteousness will be the down-fall of us all and accomplish nothing...save the destruction of all we know.
I am arrogant and self-righteous because I didn't agree with your opinion? Why does my opinion have to do with 'the destruction of all we know'? You say you prefer red, I say I prefer blue, and suddenly the universe will go to hell in a handbasket because I'm arrogant for preferring blue? Have you got a screw lose in your head?
Originally by: Syn Callibri
I have no criticisms to hurl at the Free Captain...are your lives and actions so exemplary and unstained by "colorful" deeds that you can make yourselves living paragons of truth...Amarrian?
My opinion was not a criticism at Star Fraction, in fact, I praised them for their ability to be despicable enemies. And my life and actions are anything but exemplary, I'm full of failures, weaknesses and sin and am certainly not 'a living paragon of truth', whatever that is supposed to mean.
I have to ask again, why are you mentioning this, do you have some psychological issues perhaps?
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.11 16:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Certainly. Its okay to profit from the spy intel gained by others while claiming your own hands are "clean."
Like Star Fraction keeps their hands clean while their NBSI allies destroy a ship caught in a Star Fraction bubble perhaps?
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.11 16:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 11/08/2010 16:34:24
Originally by: Syn Callibri
Whether you agree with me or not has nothing to do with your arrogance...
Then why did you call me arrogant for believing Star Fraction was a better enemy than an ally? You still haven't explained it. And certainly you haven't explained why you think my supposed arrogance is responsible for the downfall of the entire cluster.
Originally by: Syn Callibri
I mention this because you're all begining to sound like holo-vids caught in a data loop, and not a very good holo-vid at that. What purpose does the constant hammering on Star Fraction serve?
It serves to show the audience what kind of people Star Fraction are, at a personal cost to myself, sure, but one I am happy to bear.
Originally by: Syn Callibri
What enemy is defeated by caustic words and mockery?
The type of enemy that cannot be killed in combat.
Originally by: Syn Callibri
If you have issue with the Fraction, settle them in space like warriors...if thats what you are. Of course, if your nothing more than a spineless and dispassionate politician by all means...carry on since words are the only weapons that seem you possess.
Lasers serve to destroy ships, they don't serve to destroy ideas. That is one of the core difference between myself and Star Fraction. They believe that endless ship battles result in a shift of ideas, I think words are a much better tool for that. Inviting someone else to 'step outside' to settle the differences has never convinced anyone that the other is right, it only serves to settle who is better at beating someone up.
Originally by: Syn Callibri
The fact that you are an Amarrian is cause enough to have a issue with you.
Well, maybe you should talk with the Cosmopolite about that, as he is a racial Amarrian too.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.12 14:39:00 -
[15]
Originally by: The Cosmopolite
If said Gallente nationalist wants to favour PIE over the Star Fraction because his interests lie in the Star Fraction being defeated by a slaver corporation while it fights slavery then that's quite understandable and clear.
You were fighting PIE. You didn't fight a 'slaver corporation' and most certainly were not fighting slavery.
PIE is, as a corporation, not pro or anti-slavery, PIE is loyal to the Emperor and the Empire and follows their lead. Some of its pilots keep slaves, others don't and don't want to.
If you believe PIE is instrumental in keeping the institution of slavery alive in this cluster, then you can honestly say you were 'fighting slavery'. Especially since think your war against PIE hasn't succeeded in freeing a single slave nor changed the minds of those who like to keep slaves as far as I know.
There are some corporations that are truly trying to fight slavery, like Electus Matari. Star Fraction is not such a corporation. Star Fraction doesn't care much how many slaves they free, they just care about how many enemy ships they destroy, people they kill and if they can get into the news.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.23 17:18:00 -
[16]
It seems I have to provide my translation service again.
When you have more active ships than your opponent, you say in Star Fraction speak:
"We have beaten our opponents, reduced them to worms cowering in their stations only daring to undock in speedy frigate or small gangs to elude our dominant battleship fleets. Their role in this conflict is over, as they cannot match our fleets in space and have been reduced to irrelevancy!"
When your opponent has more active ships than you, you say in Star Fraction speak:
"This is an asymetric conflict of irregulars against a standing army. We are us guerilla fighters, irregular partizans, rifles in the hills, warriors who will strike you when they can and fade from view when they cannot. We are ghosts striking from the undergrowth that will pounce on you when you dare take part in a small gang."
Using double standards, isn't that the right description for this kind of thing?
Originally by: "Jade Constantine"
At the moment coming to the IGS to complain about the absence of big battles on the 24th Crusade terms simply convinces us our tactics are working.
I guess Core Impulse aren't happy with Star Fraction's acceptance of their role as 'ghosts hiding in the undergrowth only daring to go out in small gangs'. From all the bold speeches you made, maybe they were expected some heavy battleships fleets to fight?
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2010.08.29 07:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ramingo
Given that SF have a majority of their kills by joining minmatar fleets with a stabbed ceptor (Axen o/), I'd say it's safe to say the true damage we, CORIM, have caused you is substantially higher and we go back to my initial argument about how you're losing your own war based on your own objectives.
Unless of course your objective was to feed us many KMs and loot :)
The goal of Star Fraction and metric used for this campaign was the opinion of their friends. If the friends of SF are happy, then their goals are being achieved for this war, even if they lose 100 ships to each 1 they kill.
Note that making your circle of friends as small as possible is quite an effective tactic for reaching this goal.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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