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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
henchana	Posted - 2010.07.11 11:19:00 - [271] Edited by: henchana on 11/07/2010 11:24:31 Edited by: henchana on 11/07/2010 11:22:18 No one force you to bring your cellphone, wallet or any other valuable on your travle between your flat and other facilities! But still you do since: what use is a phone if you cant use it? What use is a wallet without money? If it is stolen you can call the police. Do they tell you that "if you are dumb enough to have any money on you when leaving home you have only yourself to blame" ? (Risk management needs (bad) experiences or education for it to work) This whole discussion is about how this change affects game play, isn't it? If you dont like the game, vote with your visa! Life is dangerus. It might kill you (and it will) but we want as many days and years as humanly possible out of it!!! On the other hand EVE IS a socioeconomical experiment: put risk into the equation and see how the behaviour of people change!
Sciencegeek deathdealer	Posted - 2010.07.11 11:23:00 - [272] Seriously, does anyone read the EULA? Originally by: EULA 11.B. Rights to Certain Content You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved. You have NO rights to any INGAME items. You pay CCP for an ITEM in their GAME! If you dont want to loose it, dont undock. Have a nice day!
henchana	Posted - 2010.07.11 11:28:00 - [273] Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer Seriously, does anyone read the EULA? Originally by: EULA -- snip are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved. --unsnip You have NO rights to any INGAME items. You pay CCP for an ITEM in their GAME! If you dont want to loose it, dont undock. Have a nice day! You have no right what so ever to money! it is owned by the state in which you live.
Sciencegeek deathdealer	Posted - 2010.07.11 11:34:00 - [274] Originally by: henchana Originally by: Sciencegeek deathdealer Seriously, does anyone read the EULA? Originally by: EULA -- snip are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved. --unsnip You have NO rights to any INGAME items. You pay CCP for an ITEM in their GAME! If you dont want to loose it, dont undock. Have a nice day! You have no right what so ever to money! it is owned by the state in which you live. Seriously? Fail troll is Fail. You agreed to a legal contract when you hit that accept button before you first logged on. Regardless of anything, a plex is still an ingame item, just because I pay for EVE doesnt mean the isk I make is mine. It is still CCP's property, I'm just paying to use it.
Liliane Woodhead Intergalactic Charwomen	Posted - 2010.07.11 13:35:00 - [275] Edited by: Liliane Woodhead on 11/07/2010 13:38:54 In RL i live in Taka-Tuka-Land. We too have no constitution but only an EULA. It says that we have the right to a daily water-ice with raspberry flavor. I totally agree that EULA's are generally more important than a stupid thing as laws. @Chribba: Where are these Plex-BPO's going to be sold ?
jogi einstein	Posted - 2010.07.11 13:59:00 - [276] Our Smartbomb gankers will blot out the sun (in Jita)
Illwill Jill Gallente Nifelhem	Posted - 2010.07.11 15:06:00 - [277] I don't care enough to read through all pages, but I would suggest CCP implements a warning for undocking with a Plex in hold. Apart from that:
Dawnstar Gallente Kiroshi Group death from above..	Posted - 2010.07.11 17:40:00 - [278] I do have one area of concern, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the game mechanics. Has this been run by legal? My concerns are about whether this might make Eve subject to gambling laws and regulations passed by various nations and states. Plex has a monetary value. Presently it can't be lost or gained, save through a consentual trade. With this change, Plex can arguably be lost and gained in a contest of skill (the game). That might put things on a very shaky footing for gambling laws as that sounds very much like the definition of gambling. Just a concern that I thought should probably be checked out with a legal team. -D
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:14:00 - [279] Originally by: Dawnstar Plex has a monetary value. Presently it can't be lost or gained, save through a consentual trade. Yes it can, by trashing it (either wilfully or by accident). Oh, and trading PLEXes isn't the same as losing or gaining them, nor does it affect the monetary value in any way. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Dacil Arandur	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:50:00 - [280] Edited by: Dacil Arandur on 11/07/2010 18:53:48 Originally by: Valkerias Edited by: Valkerias on 10/07/2010 20:37:58 Originally by: Rhok Relztem Edited by: Rhok Relztem on 10/07/2010 18:25:05 Originally by: Valkerias >SNIP< Oh, and for those who think it's more economical to go subscription vs Plex. Account 1: $15 USD/ month Account 2: $50 USD/ month Total $65 /month. Two month ETC (converts to 2 plex in game) $35 USD. So why THIS change, why now? When there's so many other things to fix? How are you paying $50.00 USD/ month for an account? Subscription rates: 1 month - $14.95 USD 3 month - $38.85 USD 6 month - $71.70 USD 12 month - $131.40 USD 2 month GTC (2 PLEX) - $34.99 USD Subscriptions ARE cheaper. I have three accounts and all three use the 3-month plan... MUCH cheaper than PLEX (unless of course you make enough ISK ingame to buy your PLEX which then equals $0.00 USD - the best price by far ). Your price schedule is true only on the first account. On the other accounts it's considerably higher unles you've got something "unusual" going with your financing or you've got an unusually long extension of the "power of two" promotion going. Last time I checked, the subscription options on a second and further account is $49.95 per month. What the heck? I have three accounts as well that I recently put on a 3 month schedule. Just went back and double checked the pricing on all of them after reading this. What are you talking about? The pricing for all accounts is the same. They were the same at $15 when I paid them month to month, and now they are the same at 3-month subscriptions. Here are the three orders from my three different accounts' subscription details: Account 1: 10603727 3/13/2010 14.95 USD Recurring Payment for 1 Month EVE Subscription 10804195 4/8/2010 38.85 USD New Recurring Payment for 3 Month EVE Subscription Account 2: 10647106 3/19/2010 14.95 USD Recurring Payment for 1 Month EVE Subscription 10804208 4/8/2010 38.85 USD New Recurring Payment for 3 Month EVE Subscription Account 3: 10625167 3/16/2010 14.95 USD Recurring Payment for 1 Month EVE Subscription 10804221 4/8/2010 38.85 USD New Recurring Payment for 3 Month EVE Subscription 3 Months for 38.85 USD is way cheaper than 2 months for 35 USD. Why in the world are you paying $50/month for your second account?

Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.07.11 18:51:00 - [281] Since there is like zero chance of this actually affecting gameplay (since PLEX can be activated remotely and will still be spawned wherever you choose when you purchase it), I'm still confused why they would bother with the change. Nobody thinks there may be some non-gameplay reason for this? Tax consquences are the most likely candidate to me. Any Icelanders out there hear anything lately about the guberment looking at online services for expanded taxation or anything?
Kerfira The Scope	Posted - 2010.07.11 19:18:00 - [282] This is a good idea! However, if PLEX are to be made as all other items, one additional thing must be done! No other item in a station in EVE can be operated remotely. It thus stands to reason that PLEX should not be usable from afar either! So CCP, are you standing by your claim that you want to make PLEX like all other items? Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Jericho Corbell	Posted - 2010.07.11 23:50:00 - [283] PLEX is just a item it's no real money!! So why aren't you allowed to trade it if you want? Because someone paid real money for it? But thats not of your concern! If i pay for a PLEX to get isk for a new ship for example, it's the ship where my money stays not the item anywhere in the eve universe! So in my opinion i have the choice to play eve to get the isk, which will take my time, or i pay money for that time im not willing to wait and get the isk, in both case i have to buy the time! So in my point of view it's a data sheets worth of time. i have to choose if i want to have the time to play, the benefit in ISK and that doesnt change at all. But now i get the chance to trade a small goods with high value and nice profit in some regions. Even if the PLEX get destroyed the TIME is lost not the money! And it doesnt matter cause if i lost any other item, it takes my TIME to get it back (or the isk)! So stop flaming and let some ppl trade if they want! and one last point of the update: Quote: At the same time we're changing the behaviour of the Redeeming system a bit so that items can be redeemed in any station (you could only redeem items in NPC stations before).
Dai Magnus	Posted - 2010.07.12 05:53:00 - [284] As someone who uses mostly PLEX to fuel my accounts, I think this is a great change and I can't believe all the complaints in this thread. The actual effects of this change have already been outlined by people, but judging from the whining apparently they need to be restated more clearly and with STRATEGICALLY PLACED UPPERCASE LETTERS AND TEXT FORMATTING . - People who are buying PLEX for the express purpose of ACTUAL SUBSCRIPTION TIME aren't affected at all. Nobody has to move PLEX to use them as you can activate them from anywhere. - People who are buying PLEX in order to SELL FOR ISK can and will still redeem them in trade hubs, just like they've been doing all along. Normal item risk is already assumed on these PLEX - just contract your PLEX for 315 isk in Jita? Sucks, man. CCP gave you the item, it was your choice to blow it by not being careful. - With this change, PLEX traders have simply been given MORE OPTIONS. Anybody who was making cash speculating on the PLEX market were stuck redeeming/buying/selling on one station. Now, people who buy and sell PLEX can MOVE THEM TO BETTER MARKETS should they so desire, or they can continue trading PLEX just like they were before. The only way I can see that people will actually be "forced" to move PLEX is to keep up with other players who are controlling prices by moving PLEX strategically across markets and undercutting competition. GOOD. If you're looking to make money by trading a 300 million isk item, you deserve to assume a 300 million isk risk on that investment. If someone else has the chutzpah and brains to pull it off profitably - either start taking the same risks or get out of the market. So in summary, NOBODY WHO CURRENTLY USES PLEX FOR ANY PURPOSE HAS TO CHANGE A THING IF THEY DON'T WANT TO. The only thing this change adds is that PLEX CAN BE MOVED SHOULD YOU SO DESIRE. I can't understand how people can consider this change as negatively affecting anything. Because CCP may potentially make a buck or two off greedy/incompetent traders? Please. I do support a warning message popping up every time you're about to undock with a PLEX though - would definitely help out newer players who can't help but not know better, and remind traders that they're assuming a definite risk in pursuit of a buck. /caps formatting mess Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o Edited by: 0oO0oOoOo0o on 09/07/2010 18:10:17 Can you give us the option to buy an attribute remap timer reset for 1 plex, so that we don't have to wait a whole year ? I bet this way you'd "remove" much more plexes from the game than in potential destructions while being in the cargo of a ganked ship. Fully supported, this is a brilliant idea. Demand and usage of PLEX would shoot up pretty quickly, and I'm sure supply would follow in short order from people looking to capitalize on PLEX prices going up. Pretty soon it would stabilize - all in all, more orders for PLEX, more money for CCP aka hopefully more updates , prices shouldn't change too drastically. To head off the inevitable complaint about people throwing money at EVE to gain an unfair in-game advantage - a daily remap (taking the richest case scenario heh) will ultimately only be as useful as a player's ability to effectively use their skills, much like the isk from PLEX is only as useful as the player's ability not to blow their shiny new CNR first fight they get into. The EVE universe ultimately belongs to the bold and the skilled, as it should.
Fred Kyong	Posted - 2010.07.12 05:55:00 - [285] I am not quite sure from a legal point of view: I buy a plex, a license to extend my play time (however I move it to another station or use it right away does not matter now). I undock with my license, player time code and the game mechanics allows it to be destroyed instead "I" as licensee can use it. Not quite sure this is legal! The plex must self destruct or be replaced as soon I dock again as long I am the owner of the plex (except I sell it in game). Just my 5 cents
Jericho Corbell	Posted - 2010.07.12 07:28:00 - [286] Edited by: Jericho Corbell on 12/07/2010 07:30:17 One question: If you hide your money in the chimney, that thief wouldn't find it easy if they break into your home. And now you will burn it on exident will any lawer help you with your money? i think not! So dont move it if you cant risk it! And the change doesnt change much, cause the people who want to use it to extend time havent to move it. The other people who sells it, can sell as before, no change at all! But you will get a thrid possibilitiy for those who look for a profitable tradegood, and i dont think those one will see the gametime of the item, they will just see the isk the size and the profit of moving it! And for pirates they get the chance to get a PLEX for free, but if they can steal a plex they could also steal a bpc of same value and then sell it to buy a PLEX so its just a way more direct to gametime! and the one who want to have other real money items, which conversion rate will you have? In PLEX you can see the value of your playtime and the players choose how much they will get or pay for 30days of playing!
Fred Kyong	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:00:00 - [287] Edited by: Fred Kyong on 12/07/2010 08:03:23 Answer to question: You mix up real life license rights (what you purchase with your real money) and game mechanics. You could lose the license rights before you ever used it. Still not convinced about and sounds fishy to me by any legal means.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:37:00 - [288] Originally by: CCP Fallout Changes are coming to PLEX. What are they? Read CCP Zulupark's blog to find out. Good change. Anyone not liking it is free not to undock with their PLEX if they dont want to. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Jericho Corbell	Posted - 2010.07.12 08:40:00 - [289] Edited by: Jericho Corbell on 12/07/2010 08:46:17 how can i loose my product key for the office in a game? its wired cause its a complet diferent thing! its more you buy your licence in a shop and someone will gank you on your way home so what happens Microsoft wont pay you the money nor will they give you another licence! in eve i pay my real money for the plex and the i sell it or use it! So why do i have to move it? the only possible reason is to use it as a trade good! and its in the nature of a trade that you can loose it! If you buy something in real life and didnt pay attention, no warranty will help you cause of culpable negligence. You pay for a item you get that item. deal done! If you want to destroy it without a use its fault and not CCP, you know the risk and if you are careless its your fault!
xiansheng Caldari Primary Stellar Inter-Corp Holdings Wayfarer Stellar Initiative	Posted - 2010.07.12 11:42:00 - [290] question: indeed, again, we want to know whether PLEX can or cannot still be used from another station, solar system, constellation, region than the one your character itself is sitting in? ... just for clarification :) comments: who cares, it sounds like we can contract them still privately from an newb alt we gave the isk to, then JC back to hi-sec to use it on a long workday etc ... you don't have to move them, but now ... you can :)which opens up 0.0 marketplaces to be manipulated by players ... so they will be moved. Every now and then, some lucky pvper gets a free month of play or the isk for that t2 bs he's been wanting and someone makes it rich on the right marketplace ... sounds like some people forgot EVE 101 ... the player ran economy is EVE ... and well done CCP marketing :) o' an' developers

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.07.12 12:07:00 - [291] Originally by: xiansheng question: indeed, again, we want to know whether PLEX can or cannot still be used from another station, solar system, constellation, region than the one your character itself is sitting in? ... just for clarification :) From page 3 of this very thread: Originally by: CCP Explorer The technical aspect of how you apply a PLEX to your account to extend your subscription will be unchanged. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Dayna Dianne	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:16:00 - [292] OK ive read and read, and no one has mentioned that PLEXs no longer need to be brought into the game at secured npc stations, they can in fact be brought into the game in your 0.0 alliance held station where they will be worth a lot more cause the players there are getting 400mil a day from ratting and stuff. So lets see, i bring the plex in in jita at 300m or in walla walla 47 jumps away in 0.0 and put 900m on it and let joe blow by it with a couple days ratting money. YES PLEXS will go up cause people arent going to redeem them in high sec when they live and pvp in lowsec 0.0 and wanna sell em to there freinds or what ever in there corps and stuff lke that. Im only assuming here of course that miners and industrialists arent going to buy gtcs cause they make there money in game. Just thought id share that thought and see if anyone else agree's, as to PLEXs being lost in game, WHO THE HELL CARES, only morons are going to fly out of jita 4/4 with something like that in there cargo when it can be applied as a redeemable item as well as a 30 day extension
GeeShizzle MacCloud Caldari Loxtech Inc.	Posted - 2010.07.12 13:34:00 - [293] just an fyi... i am a hisec carebear, and i almost feel i should apologise to everyone for the annoying crying of so many other empire carebears that tbh probably dont have the combined intelligence to count up to ten. PLEX's are in game items, they are the sole property of ccp. they dont have a monetary value assigned to it. GTC's have a monetary value but are not in-game items. if you're crying bout loosing ~$15USD then dont buy GTC's and convert them to plexs. go out and mine etc... and buy a plex for 300 or so million ISK. CCP wont be touched for destroyed plex's, because plexs can be acquired without giving CCP ~$15USD if ur looking to make the highest isk profit per m3 of cargospace then trade plexs by flying round with them in ur hold... bt as it always is with eve, highest reward requires the highest risks. G
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.07.12 14:41:00 - [294] Here's something - Google the following terms, exactly as printed here: iceland government tax online services Then look at top hit, page 6 - it reads: "Iceland Security News - Media Monitoring Service by EIN News Could the days of tax-free online shopping be over? 5 Jul 2010 22:30 GMT ... officials and members of the government of Iceland. ... www.einnews.com/iceland/newsfeed-iceland-security - Cached - Similar" You can't get to the underlying story anymore because you have to be a member, but I wonder if this is related to the changes in PLEX?
StarshipAI	Posted - 2010.07.12 19:29:00 - [295] Centipedes?
Patri Andari Caldari Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer	Posted - 2010.07.12 19:30:00 - [296] Originally by: Kerfira This is a good idea! However, if PLEX are to be made as all other items, one additional thing must be done! No other item in a station in EVE can be operated remotely. It thus stands to reason that PLEX should not be usable from afar either! So CCP, are you standing by your claim that you want to make PLEX like all other items? Leaving aside the fact that no other item has a "redeem" function (making PLEX unique despite any claim it is not) there ARE other things that can be manipulated remotely in this game. Without Skills: view contents of ships and containers* trash items* contract items* repackage items* With Skills: install blueprints for R&D install blueprints for manufacture place items on market scan planets for resources manipulate market orders manipulate planetary installations* *can be done anywhere in the universe regardless of distance. I do not see how redeeming PLEX anywhere in the universe is so different. Patri I'll Roshambo you for that Titan
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.07.12 22:37:00 - [297] Originally by: StarshipAI Centipedes? My google foo is fail. But if you do the search, its near page 6.
wizard87	Posted - 2010.07.12 23:05:00 - [298] I'm all for these changes, but I would like to see PLEX scamming via contracts/bogus market orders etc made a punishable offence. As someone who only plays by paying with PLEX I feel the changes you're making will make a bad issue (PLEX scamming), worse.
Crimson Dahlia	Posted - 2010.07.13 02:29:00 - [299] Great Change! This is why I love CCP. Keeping Eve a dark, cold, harsh universe, one change at a time. I can't wait to see the KMs on C&P with PLEXes dropping!!
Crimson Dahlia	Posted - 2010.07.13 02:48:00 - [300] Edited by: Crimson Dahlia on 13/07/2010 02:49:06 This may have already been hashed over several times by now, but I'm not sifting though 10 pages first. For those arguing that this is a greed move by CCP for a free $15 everytime a PLEX pops, how is that any different from someone purchasing a PLEX and then subsequently losing the 3 fitted battleships they purchased with it in one major fleet action in 0.0? This is an excellent decision on CCP's part, and greed has nothing to do with it. Edit: Oh, and to the poster above me calling for PLEX scams to be punishable: No F*ing way. ALL in game items need to be treated equally. What you are suggesting will go against the very nature of this change.



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